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Hi all,

In another discussion, "What Religion Are You And Why?" -- the discussion has bogged down in arguments about the King James Bible. So, maybe it is good if we back off a bit and clear the air. What do most conservative Christian churches, ministries, and organizations say in their Statement of Beliefs about the Bible? I believe you will find the one I use in my ministry to be pretty close to what you will find in other conservative ministries:

That the Bible, consisting of the books of the Old Testament and the New Testament, is the Written Word of God; is a supernaturally inspired revelation from God; and is His full plan for mankind and His full revelation to mankind.

That the Bible is without error in its moral and spiritual teaching and in its record of historical facts.


Now, what does this mean? It means that the Bible, in its original manuscripts, is the literal Word of God because it was written by men under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit -- and since these books were inspired by the Holy Spirit; it can be correctly called the Written Word of God. While the men who did the writing did so in their own particular ways and styles; the Holy Spirit was right there guiding their thoughts and their hands. The Bible IS literally the message which God wanted to transmit to mankind down through the ages -- a message of pure love, pure justice, and salvation for mankind.

When I write "That the Bible is without error in its moral and spiritual teaching and in its record of historical facts" -- I mean that this was true in its original manuscript. Unfortunately, none of the original manuscripts exist today. What we have today are copies of the originals and translations from the original languages into English.

Have copying errors crept into the text? Most certainly. However, the early scribes who did the copying were meticulous in their fervor to make correct copies. They had methods of proof-reading that is unknown today. Each portion of the scroll which was copied was carefully reread, the letters counted, the words counted, etc. -- and if one single mistake was found, that scroll was destroyed and the scribe began all over again.

There are so many books, religious and secular, written about and from the Bible since the days of the apostles; and so many manuscripts and fragments found from those days -- that it is estimated that, if all the Bibles in the world were somehow destroyed -- the Bible could be reproduced from these early writings, manuscripts, and fragments to completely recover the entire Bible except for possibly eleven verses. No other book in history has such legitimate evidence of its existence and its accuracy as the Bible.

To summarize, a God who is powerful enough to inspire forty men, over a period of sixteen hundred years, all living in diverse geographical locations, to write these sixty-six books which comprise our Bible -- and to have all of these writings maintain a consistent, unified, single theme: salvation for mankind -- this God is most certainly powerful enough to protect the writings He originally authored. He can and has done this through all copying, translations, and canonization processes.

So, when I write "That the Bible is without error in its moral and spiritual teaching and in its record of historical facts" -- I believe this is a fact you can take to the bank. God does not and has never -- made mistakes. The word "Oops!" is not in His vocabulary. God authored, protected, and brought His Written Word, the Bible, to us as we have it today. Therefore, I feel confident in stating that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, literal Word of God; His full revelation to mankind.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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You are as inconsistant as the Bible,
Bill. On the one hand you say that errors have crept into the copies, then that they haven't.

As for the "unknown" method of checking for errors, it is commonly known as a checksum or hash total. This method, just as you described, has been used in accounting for centuries - and probably was introduced to Christian scribes by the the Italians that invented two column accounting - and more recently is an integral part of computer programming.

I don't disagree with any of your statements until you get to the very end, where you put your personal, distorted spin on things. God didn't write the Bible - as you stated men did. There is a difference in God writing the Bible and men who are spiritually inspired writing the Bible. They just aren't the same thing.

This becomes obvious when you try to fit the description of the creation of the universe as presented in Genesis with reality. You also ignore the fact that there are other "books" of the Bible that have been left out, that the Bible was compiled by men, and that they had their own agenda. You state that there are no known original copies, and that errors must have crept in. It is a known fact that errors have crept in based on the existing earliest copies having substantial differences. It's one of the reasons scholars know they don't have the originals.

I'm glad that you have made this post. Hopefully you will reread the factual first part of the post and arrive at a more logical conclusion than you have here. You will find that once you let go of the legalism you subscribe to, your relationship with God will be strengthened.

Good luck with that.
Hi Crusty,

Today, it is raining in California. But, I am afraid that if I were to tell YOU it is a rainy day -- you would find some way to disagree. So be it; that is just your personality.

Those who are interested in God's Word will read and interpret what I have written correctly -- while you who have an agenda to denigrate the Bible and God will have your own interpretation.

Not a problem. You can discuss your dislike for the Bible with Jesus Christ when you meet Him face to face. And, you will meet Him face to face -- even if six strong men have to carry you into the church you so dislike -- for the first and last time.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Well said Bill.

The bible is the word of GOD written down by the scribes he chose. Therefore, what he wanted written down is what is still written down. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is called faith. This is the hardest thing for some people to believe. Especially now. With our modern technology and science a person wants proof of everything. Our brains and arrogance often get in the way sometimes. Be careful with this because you could one day be left behind.
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty,

Today, it is raining in California. But, I am afraid that if I were to tell YOU it is a rainy day -- you would find some way to disagree. So be it; that is just your personality.

Those who are interested in God's Word will read and interpret what I have written correctly -- while you who have an agenda to denigrate the Bible and God will have your own interpretation.

Not a problem. You can discuss your dislike for the Bible with Jesus Christ when you meet Him face to face. And, you will meet Him face to face -- even if six strong men have to carry you into the church you so dislike -- for the first and last time.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


And as usual, Bill you have to put your distorted spin on things. You are as bad as the Clintons at spinning things.

I have no agenda to denigrate God or the Bible. I do propose to point out your ridiculous beliefs every time I encounter them, though.

You obviously are working out of your Fundy playbook. When you are faced with your own inconsistancies and fallacies, paint your adversary as ungodly.

Continue with your rainy and blissed day, Bill.
The "inerrant" and "divinely inspired without error" version is the one that BeeGee has: the one that requires us to suspend all other beliefs and bow to him as grand arbiter on all things moral, religious, and political, since he is saved by saying a magic prayer and he doesn't even need magical underwear or to confess his sins like mere mortals do, since God knows him to be perfected and absolutely correct in all matters that require opinion. Isn't that the way it goes when one parses the verbose verses and silly sappy stories and shreds away the cartoons?

Why is the Shepherd of Hermas in the Codex Sin. but not in the KJV? Why is the natural continuation of Daniel, Macabees, in the Jewish Apop. and Latin and Greek versions but not in the Protestant? Why are Enoch and Jubilees found in Coptic bibles only? Why is Daniel considered only a minor writing not worth proclaiming doctrine over in Judaism but ascendant in newly minted Triburapture circles? Why does the word God never occur in Esther? Why is Daniel rife with factual error such as an imaginary King of the Persians when the Liberator of the Jews was Cyrus recorded in both the Bible and secular history? Why is Genesis required to make two creation stories that differ in details?

These are not misspellings or a lost jot or tittle -- this is major editing work we're talking about!

The works must be read as a whole to get the entire story except when a story stands alone, that is obvious. Yet people nitpick over one line or two and try to differentiate themselves as being "special" for their occult knowledge of the hidden gnosis. Well, whoopteedoo. Grab your socks and shut your yaps there are hungry and people want to fight over verses when they know what action is required.
At least I darned well don't supposedly believe that the earth is under 10,000 years old and that a talking snake -- a fable no more profound than Pandora and her box -- is the origin of evil in the world. At least I never claim to post bladerdash then drop it like a hot potato when proven incorrect on it, like someone who claimed that they were recommending Tom Paine for reading but ignoring his magnus opus, Age of Reason or his proto-socialist Agararian Justice nor have as another claimed to, be able to parse Aramaic and Aramaic from root to adjective form. Nor have I ever been taken by the swindles of Calvinism and the noxious poison of Triburapture, both being mere blips on the worlds' theological radar screen. I'd rather take my faith the way the Apostles preserved it through their successors, the apostolic bishops, not Brother Jimmy Joe Jehosophat Johnson self-ordained pastor-prophet-elder of the First Fire Baptized Holiness Mt. Nebo Zion Reformed New Wineskin Covenant with Signs Following Church of Jesus Christ Christian, Meeting at the old 'backy barn between Bluewater and Second Creek on Lauderdale 64, Sabbath observing.*

* Bring your own snakes and Bibles, please, we ain't got enough for everybody.

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