The BIG Bang ???

There are countless amounts of money being spent and invested, annually, by the scientific community to attempt to re-create or discover evidence of the "BIG BANG" or to prove the theory of the Big Bang.   I'm wondering if there are any on the forum that are Big Bang advocates who actually believe that this is the source of all of what exist today in our Cosmos and Universes including Life itself. 

I'm also amazed at how people can invest so much in this theory yet be so dogmatic when it comes to belief or a theory of God or a single deity as Creator even to the point of disqualifying someone who happens to believe in Creation from a deity/God.  What I'd love to know, or hear from someone, is where these things that got together to create this big bang came from or what was the catalyst that caused some singularity to erupt in the most enormous explosion that ever happened.   From what I have observed, through the years, most people that are Big Bang advocates are quick to dismiss people of faith as lunatics, deceived people, or people that are just deranged.  Conversely people of faith do not claim the same about those who believe in the Big Bang or some other theory which doesn't involve a deity or God as creator.

 As a person that, openly/publically, claims I believe that the Cosmos, the whole Universe, all the physical Universe(s)  around us were created by and originated from God or the deity we call God.  I do not believe humanity or humans have the capacity to actually understand who or what God is but the best we can do is accept God on Faith or through Faith and accept that there are things beyond what we can understand and/or comprehend.  I see/understand God to be a Spirit existing/dwelling/being in a Spiritual Realm which is apart from the Physical Universe(s) which we know to exist around us.  This Spiritual Realm I believe to be so expansive that it is, like God, way beyond our possible comprehension or understanding but that the Physical came from (or out of ) the Spiritual by some process by which we also are unable to duplicate or even comprehend or understand.  Sometimes I wonder if those who come up with various theories about how we got here or about how what's around us got here is done in order make themselves feel they have hold on life don't have to contemplate questions that they would rather not think about and them sometimes people just don't want to admit that they don't know or that there are things beyond what they can comprehend or understand. 

Everyone has beliefs and faith in something even if that something is nothing and regardless of the differences that exist everyone deserves respect or to be treated with respect and not just dismissed out of hand as someone that needs some kind of intervention or has some mental illness.  People should have a basis for what they believe but often belief comes because they have followed or accepted the belief of another.   Often I find it interesting what another believes and why but especially with theories as with the Big Bang how a person can justify their faith/belief in that theory given that (my own impression) you have to accept that such a huge event (explosion) just happens from nothing at all or if from something then answering where that something originally came from.

 

Be as the Bereans ( Acts 17:11 )
Original Post

If you want to know about the Big Bang theory of the origin of our cosmos, I recommend you go to the library, book store, or Amazon and find a book and read it. 

If you are rejecting the Big Bang theory because of religious dogma, then why are you worrying about it. 

If you reject it because its only a theory, then just remember, Atomic theory is only a theory, the theory of gravity is only a theory, the germ theory of disease is only a theory, etc.  Point being - a scientific theory isn't a mere guess.  There is extensive evidence and knowledge that uphold theories.  The scientific method is still be best means to gain knowledge of all things natural.

As an atheist, I don't think people of religion are stupid, deranged or whatever.  People of religion believe in what they do because they have been indoctrinated to believe their entire lives.

indoctrinated - OS

First definition I hit -teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically

https://www.google.com/search?....0.1.290.nB9bmODh-Gg

Maybe a twist on who is indoctrinated about believing what others believe, I wouldn't expect an atheist to know this but Christians, although they share the same set of beliefs are anything but uncritical of how other groups of Christians accept the same  beliefs.  Not just conflicts between Catholics and Protestants, we need to go no father than will it be sprinkling or immersion?

Your theory needs some work, Old Salt.  

 

Thanks Bud, for illustrating an incorrect usage of the term theory.  I stated an opinion, which is not a theory. 

Sure, the different sects of christianity are critical of the others, but the vast majority of christians do not question what they are taught from the bible.  They accept everything in it as good and true and factual because they are taught that.  THAT is indoctrination.

OldSalt posted:

Thanks Bud, for illustrating an incorrect usage of the term theory.  I stated an opinion, which is not a theory. 

Sure, the different sects of christianity are critical of the others, but the vast majority of christians do not question what they are taught from the bible.  They accept everything in it as good and true and factual because they are taught that.  THAT is indoctrination.

I was messin' with you.  A play on the theme of the thread if you will.  I know atheist have no theory regarding religion.  Just opinions - like yours.  Everyone has one.

And as well there are atheist who have opinions rather than theories regarding science.

Said it before, Christians disagree over what's is written in the Bible.  I have given you demonstrative proof of it and where we should be on the same page, you reject it.  As I also said, I would not expect an atheist to understand and that explains it.  No biggie.

Anyhow, the subject of the Big Bang always reminds me of this song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HqyEHqEYho

 

What many unsuspecting people don't realize is the creation
of the "Big Bang" also saw at that moment, the creation for the
being much of the world named God. The ability to witness the
formations of the universe could give a detailed account of the
path of evolution, which would be a better name for the book,
instead of Bible.  

 

The thing is that the Bible doesn't get descriptive as to how or by what process creation happened but rather just  indicates it was by God's direction.  I still say that those who want to cite the "Big Bang" out of singularity have to define some catalyst by which the Singularity would have become such massive energy to have happened.   To conjure everything that exist in the Physical realm/world/universe from one thing, one entity, apart from a deity, is to require more faith than believing in God as creator. 

gbrk posted:

The thing is that the Bible doesn't get descriptive as to how or by what process creation happened but rather just  indicates it was by God's direction.  I still say that those who want to cite the "Big Bang" out of singularity have to define some catalyst by which the Singularity would have become such massive energy to have happened.   To conjure everything that exist in the Physical realm/world/universe from one thing, one entity, apart from a deity, is to require more faith than believing in God as creator. 

Watch the video.

"Our whole universe was in a hot, dense state
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started, wait
The earth began to cool, the autotrophs began to drool"

Oh I know the song,  The TV Series "Big Bang" is one of my favorite.  Two of the characters Sheldon and Leonard were taken from the famous TV Producer's name, Sheldon Leonard who produced such shows as I Spy, The Andy Griffith Show and the **** Van **** show and died in 1997, to pay homage.  At least that's what I had read somewhere.

gbrk posted:

The thing is that the Bible doesn't get descriptive as to how or by what process creation happened but rather just  indicates it was by God's direction.  I still say that those who want to cite the "Big Bang" out of singularity have to define some catalyst by which the Singularity would have become such massive energy to have happened.   To conjure everything that exist in the Physical realm/world/universe from one thing, one entity, apart from a deity, is to require more faith than believing in God as creator. 

What if, tomorrow, a group of scientists announce they have found evidence for the cause of the Big Bang, and its not a divine and supreme being? 

I don't really think that is going to happen tomorrow, but things that were previously credited to god have been found to have a natural cause.  Humans credited these things to god because we did not know the natural cause.  God existed in our gaps of knowledge.  As we gained and continue to gain knowledge of our natural world and cosmos, these gaps become smaller or cease to exist all together - god recedes into ever smaller and ever shrinking gaps in our knowledge.  Now, god exists primarily in gaps in our knowledge of abiogenesis and the big bang.  We are always gaining more knowledge about both.  What if those gaps are filled with scientific knowledge? 

At this point in time, with this subject, there is no concrete evidence or proof that can be found.  It's all a guess, an opinion, a matter of faith but anyone, any human, that would claim to know (even a Religious one) is just expressing a theory or an opinion at best .  People keep looking backwards in time trying to explain something that frankly (yes my opinion) never will be explained or defined, and yet no one knows for definitely sure all the questions about our own planet that we live on in the here and now.  There are plenty of educated guesses and opinions but no one has actually been able to sample the core of the Earth as of yet due to the extreme temperatures and pressures.  Now we are to believe that humans, with our frail limited minds, can determine the cause and way that the Physical universe was developed and came about?  The Big Bang theory of creation still is insufficient due to the fact that it doesn't explain how such a huge explosion occurred out of nothing or a singularity and then if a singularity then where did it come from and what was the catalyst that set forth such an enormous bang/explosion from which all life and physical existence came from. 

It's almost as a cat chasing it's tail for even people who believe in God or a All Powerful deity can easily have  faith that this is the method by which God determined things to happen. 

My point is there are some things that is beyond the capabilities of our mind to comprehend and understand and I believe this is one of them.  Just as I believe God is one that has to be accepted and cannot be defined or understood or even explained.  Other such concepts or things I believe are impossible for the human mind to actually comprehend is eternity itself as there is no reference or standard to apply.  Eternity forward or Eternity reverse (in time) is something I propose that we cannot understand or comprehend and to do so is insanity.  There are many mysteries such as how our fragile Earth is continuing to maintain life and keep things in order as I have heard it said if Earth was a miniscule amount out of orbit around the sun we would either burn up or freeze and life would cease to exist.  There are many things we can throw about and debate or argue about even but in the end we all have our opinions and theories and should respect that there are indefinites that often just require faith and nothing more.

gbrk posted:

At this point in time, with this subject, there is no concrete evidence or proof that can be found.  It's all a guess, an opinion, a matter of faith but anyone, any human, that would claim to know (even a Religious one) is just expressing a theory or an opinion at best .

This statement indicates that either -

1. you don't know the evidence,

2. you don't understand the evidence, or

3. you reject the evidence for whatever reason.

Here are a couple of links to information about the evidence for the Big Bang:

http://www.schoolsobservatory....smos/bigbang/bb_evid

https://science.nasa.gov/astro...powered-the-big-bang

Let me ask this:

Do you accept that your computer, TV, telephone, everything electrical and electronic in you house works?  The way all these things work is described by Quantum Theory.  (Quantum Theory also helps to describe the Big Bang.)

Do you accept fact that for some reason, you stay on the ground - you don't float off into the air?  This is described by Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.  (General Relativity also helps to describe the Big Bang.)

Do you accept the the fact that germs can cause disease?  This is described by the Germ Theory of Disease.  Or, do you still accept the notion that diseases are god's punishment for wrong-doing - that goddidit?

The point is, and as I've stated before, a theory is not a guess.  Scientists notice things going on in nature, make observations, collect evidence, formulate conclusions based on the observations and evidence, then construct a theory based on their observations and evidence. 

I'll end my participation in this discussion here.  If you don't accept a theory because it is merely a theory, or because if contradicts your religious dogma, then there is nothing more to be said.

 

How many big bangs might have there been, assuming the
universe collapsed in on itself to the degree producing an
explosion of such unimaginable force would mean the material
accumulated has a finite weight but not a set appointed moment
of pop. I believe there is no center of area claimed by the universe,
so the solar system explosions have occurred and will continue.  
Could a black hole be the embryo,? 

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