The NeoCons' Decision to Bomb Iran :
"We are conducting military operations inside Iran right now. The evidence is overwhelming, from both the Iranians [and] Americans, and Congressional sources."
http://snipurl.com/1g03s
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Better get your hard hat so people will think you are serious.
Colonel Gardiner is a credible source.
Former weapons Inspector and marine Scott Ritter has reported that both the US and Israel are gathering intelligence with the radical mujahadeen group MEK inside Iran. ABC news has also reported that the US is working with the group the Jundullah inside Iran.
Attacks have been carried out against the Iranian military and civilians were killed by bombs placed in a Mall. The Iranians as well as neighboring countries are well aware of the attacks and who's behind them. Some of these groups are based in Northern Iraq.
It only makes sense that if the US planned military action in Iran that it would send in teams to gather information and aid groups that would be allied with us.
Bush says he wants diplomacy but that's what he said about Iraq. Evidence now shows he planned the attack and even tried to bait Saddam into attacking US planes that were painted with UN insignia and other provocative acts.
The Downing Street Memo said the war was going to be carried out and the "Facts were being fixed around the policy."
The Blotter
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/abc_news_exclus.html
ABC News Exclusive: The Secret War Against Iran
April 03, 2007 5:25 PM
Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:
"A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News."
Former weapons Inspector and marine Scott Ritter has reported that both the US and Israel are gathering intelligence with the radical mujahadeen group MEK inside Iran. ABC news has also reported that the US is working with the group the Jundullah inside Iran.
Attacks have been carried out against the Iranian military and civilians were killed by bombs placed in a Mall. The Iranians as well as neighboring countries are well aware of the attacks and who's behind them. Some of these groups are based in Northern Iraq.
It only makes sense that if the US planned military action in Iran that it would send in teams to gather information and aid groups that would be allied with us.
Bush says he wants diplomacy but that's what he said about Iraq. Evidence now shows he planned the attack and even tried to bait Saddam into attacking US planes that were painted with UN insignia and other provocative acts.
The Downing Street Memo said the war was going to be carried out and the "Facts were being fixed around the policy."
The Blotter
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/abc_news_exclus.html
ABC News Exclusive: The Secret War Against Iran
April 03, 2007 5:25 PM
Brian Ross and Christopher Isham Report:
"A Pakistani tribal militant group responsible for a series of deadly guerrilla raids inside Iran has been secretly encouraged and advised by American officials since 2005, U.S. and Pakistani intelligence sources tell ABC News."
The MEK or Khalk are not mujahdeen, but a cult of the personality communist organization. Most are atheist. We probably are using them to spy, etc, against the Iranians -- big deal. We used Stalin against Adolf or Stalin used us. The world is not a clean sandbox where everyone plays nice. There're scorpions, snakes, land mines and worst hidden in the sand.
And when the sandbox is that big, you don't have to use baking soda to hide stuff.
quote:Originally posted by pba:
The NeoCons' Decision to Bomb Iran :
"We are conducting military operations inside Iran right now. The evidence is overwhelming, from both the Iranians [and] Americans, and Congressional sources."
http://snipurl.com/1g03s
Military operations in Iran are not inevitable but the direction of US Foreign policy has to change to avoid them. Military operations in Iran, without a stable Iraq will put the entire supply of oil for the world onto Saudi, Venezuelan, Russian and Mexican producers. Iran is supplying a very large portion of the oil requirements of nations other than the USA. If Iran's ability to produce and deliver crude oil is damaged the price of oil will increase by at least a third and perhaps more.
One predictable consequence of attacking Iran will be starving China of oil. China will resist any military action against Iran, and that probably means by action against the invader. If we are the invader, we will be at war not with Iran alone, but with China as well.
There are nearly as many military age unmarried men in China as there are men in the United States. There are four Chinese Citizens for each American Citizen. We are 300 million, they are well over one billion. WHO WINS?
interventor
Familiar Face
Posted 11 April 2007 07:45 AM Hide Post
The MEK or Khalk are not mujahdeen, but a cult of the personality communist organization. Most are atheist. We probably are using them to spy, etc, against the Iranians -- big deal. We used Stalin against Adolf or Stalin used us. The world is not a clean sandbox where everyone plays nice. There're scorpions, snakes, land mines and worst hidden in the sand.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scott Ritter, who is pretty knowledgeable person who has been to Iran reported on the program Democracy Now that the US and Israel are gathering intelligence and working with the, MEK, which he describes as a cult and the Mujahadeen.
I heard the same logic when we supported Saddam in the 80's as well as bin Laden. These groups have little to know support among the Iranian people and are a terrorist. The US can't claim to be fighting terrorism and then use terrorist groups.
Iran has not attacked any country and is not a threat in the region. There is no need to support any of these fanatical terrorist groups or to attack Iran.
The US is after the oil and this will back fire and create a worse situation.
Familiar Face
Posted 11 April 2007 07:45 AM Hide Post
The MEK or Khalk are not mujahdeen, but a cult of the personality communist organization. Most are atheist. We probably are using them to spy, etc, against the Iranians -- big deal. We used Stalin against Adolf or Stalin used us. The world is not a clean sandbox where everyone plays nice. There're scorpions, snakes, land mines and worst hidden in the sand.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scott Ritter, who is pretty knowledgeable person who has been to Iran reported on the program Democracy Now that the US and Israel are gathering intelligence and working with the, MEK, which he describes as a cult and the Mujahadeen.
I heard the same logic when we supported Saddam in the 80's as well as bin Laden. These groups have little to know support among the Iranian people and are a terrorist. The US can't claim to be fighting terrorism and then use terrorist groups.
Iran has not attacked any country and is not a threat in the region. There is no need to support any of these fanatical terrorist groups or to attack Iran.
The US is after the oil and this will back fire and create a worse situation.
quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
interventor
Familiar Face
Posted 11 April 2007 07:45 AM Hide Post
The MEK or Khalk are not mujahdeen, but a cult of the personality communist organization. Most are atheist. We probably are using them to spy, etc, against the Iranians -- big deal. We used Stalin against Adolf or Stalin used us. The world is not a clean sandbox where everyone plays nice. There're scorpions, snakes, land mines and worst hidden in the sand.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Scott Ritter, who is pretty knowledgeable person who has been to Iran reported on the program Democracy Now that the US and Israel are gathering intelligence and working with the, MEK, which he describes as a cult and the Mujahadeen.
I heard the same logic when we supported Saddam in the 80's as well as bin Laden. These groups have little to know support among the Iranian people and are a terrorist. The US can't claim to be fighting terrorism and then use terrorist groups.
Iran has not attacked any country and is not a threat in the region. There is no need to support any of these fanatical terrorist groups or to attack Iran.
The US is after the oil and this will back fire and create a worse situation.
How can you say that Iran is not a threat in the region? It is a known fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's. It is a known fact that Iran is a state sponser of terrorism. There is a large portion of the Iranian population who do not support the mullahs or the Iranian "president". Helping them to throw off the yoke of the opppresion they are under would be a good thing.
EdEKit
Military operations in Iran are not inevitable but the direction of US Foreign policy has to change to avoid them. Military operations in Iran, without a stable Iraq will put the entire supply of oil for the world onto Saudi, Venezuelan, Russian and Mexican producers. Iran is supplying a very large portion of the oil requirements of nations other than the USA. If Iran's ability to produce and deliver crude oil is damaged the price of oil will increase by at least a third and perhaps more.
One predictable consequence of attacking Iran will be starving China of oil. China will resist any military action against Iran, and that probably means by action against the invader. If we are the invader, we will be at war not with Iran alone, but with China as well.
There are nearly as many military age unmarried men in China as there are men in the United States. There are four Chinese Citizens for each American Citizen. We are 300 million, they are well over one billion. WHO WINS?
____________________________________________________________________________
I agree that attacking Iran is not inevitable. But just like with Iraq the "Facts are being fixed around the policy." Bush wants to control the region and the oil and plans to try to force "regime change" in Iran to a puppet government. But just like in Iraq it will not be a "cake walk" and it will be the people of Iran, the region and the US who will pay the costs for the profits of the wealthy corporate elite's.
US is trying to encircle China also and a show down may someday occur but if China stops lending us money and holding our purse strings it may be somewhat difficult for the US to wage war without money.
As the US latest study on Global Warming shows we need to make drastic changes from fossil fuel. The war over these resources is not in the American peoples interest. We need to be developing safe, renewable energy. To war over a resource that will run out one day is a very shortsighted policy. As reserves run low the price will only rise and make wars more likely.
Military operations in Iran are not inevitable but the direction of US Foreign policy has to change to avoid them. Military operations in Iran, without a stable Iraq will put the entire supply of oil for the world onto Saudi, Venezuelan, Russian and Mexican producers. Iran is supplying a very large portion of the oil requirements of nations other than the USA. If Iran's ability to produce and deliver crude oil is damaged the price of oil will increase by at least a third and perhaps more.
One predictable consequence of attacking Iran will be starving China of oil. China will resist any military action against Iran, and that probably means by action against the invader. If we are the invader, we will be at war not with Iran alone, but with China as well.
There are nearly as many military age unmarried men in China as there are men in the United States. There are four Chinese Citizens for each American Citizen. We are 300 million, they are well over one billion. WHO WINS?
____________________________________________________________________________
I agree that attacking Iran is not inevitable. But just like with Iraq the "Facts are being fixed around the policy." Bush wants to control the region and the oil and plans to try to force "regime change" in Iran to a puppet government. But just like in Iraq it will not be a "cake walk" and it will be the people of Iran, the region and the US who will pay the costs for the profits of the wealthy corporate elite's.
US is trying to encircle China also and a show down may someday occur but if China stops lending us money and holding our purse strings it may be somewhat difficult for the US to wage war without money.
As the US latest study on Global Warming shows we need to make drastic changes from fossil fuel. The war over these resources is not in the American peoples interest. We need to be developing safe, renewable energy. To war over a resource that will run out one day is a very shortsighted policy. As reserves run low the price will only rise and make wars more likely.
For good or ill, Scott Rider, like Jimmah Carter, had been bought and paid for by Arab interests. I didn't trust Chalabi and I don't trust him.
There are a number of groups acting against the current mullacracy, including Kurd separatists, monarchists, Arabs, the Khalq, Zoroastrians, Israeli operative, etc. The mullahs have made a plethora of enemies.
There are a number of groups acting against the current mullacracy, including Kurd separatists, monarchists, Arabs, the Khalq, Zoroastrians, Israeli operative, etc. The mullahs have made a plethora of enemies.
The MEK had a pretty well armed outfit in Iraq, before the war. We removed their artillery and armor and now everything,except a few pistols for their officers. The one I met said he was an atheist -- in muslim territory that is either brave or foolish.
interventor:
How can you say that Iran is not a threat in the region? It is a known fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's. It is a known fact that Iran is a state sponser of terrorism. There is a large portion of the Iranian population who do not support the mullahs or the Iranian "president". Helping them to throw off the yoke of the opppresion they are under would be a good thing.
interventor
For good or ill, Scott Rider, like Jimmah Carter, had been bought and paid for by Arab interests. I didn't trust Chalabi and I don't trust him.
There are a number of groups acting against the current mullacracy, including Kurd separatists, monarchists, Arabs, the Khalq, Zoroastrians, Israeli operative, etc. The mullahs have made a plethora of enemies.
interventor
The MEK had a pretty well armed outfit in Iraq, before the war. We removed their artillery and armor and now everything,except a few pistols for their officers. The one I met said he was an atheist -- in muslim territory that is either brave or foolish.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iran is not a threat to anyone in the region.
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni.
You said yourself that it's OK for the US to support terrorist groups so why are you now pointing the finger at Iran?
Iran supports Hezbollah. Only the US and Israel claim Hezbollah are terrorists. They formed to oppose Israelis illegal occupation of a "Security Zone" in Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah are a legitimate political party in Lebanon. Iran also supports Hamas who has used suicide bombings in retaliation for Israelis murdering their leaders and other crimes against the Palestinian people. Israel has killed 3 times the number of civilians then the Palestinians have and their occupation and stealing land that is legally Palestinian while they carryout repression, apartheid and ethnic cleansing is also terrorism, which the US finances. Hamas has abided by a truce and has not attacked despite Israelis constant incursions into their territory.
The Iranian people have not asked us to "liberate them." Just as the Iraqi people did not ask us to "Liberate them." Supporting terrorist attacks against civilians or launching an attack on the country is not helping the Iranian people.
Iran does have elections and did elect a moderate liberal last election but US rejections to peace overtures discredit Khamati and constant censorship by the Mullahs disenchanted the liberal movement. Still, the Iranian people want freedom and are working towards it on their own. They all reject any US attacks. And these terrorist groups the US support will only turn on us in the future.
Bush wants to control the region for the oil. The Iraqi people know it, the Iranians know it and the world knows it.
Ritter and Carter are experienced in the region and credible. They are well respected world wide. They are also correct in their assessments.
How can you say that Iran is not a threat in the region? It is a known fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's. It is a known fact that Iran is a state sponser of terrorism. There is a large portion of the Iranian population who do not support the mullahs or the Iranian "president". Helping them to throw off the yoke of the opppresion they are under would be a good thing.
interventor
For good or ill, Scott Rider, like Jimmah Carter, had been bought and paid for by Arab interests. I didn't trust Chalabi and I don't trust him.
There are a number of groups acting against the current mullacracy, including Kurd separatists, monarchists, Arabs, the Khalq, Zoroastrians, Israeli operative, etc. The mullahs have made a plethora of enemies.
interventor
The MEK had a pretty well armed outfit in Iraq, before the war. We removed their artillery and armor and now everything,except a few pistols for their officers. The one I met said he was an atheist -- in muslim territory that is either brave or foolish.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iran is not a threat to anyone in the region.
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni.
You said yourself that it's OK for the US to support terrorist groups so why are you now pointing the finger at Iran?
Iran supports Hezbollah. Only the US and Israel claim Hezbollah are terrorists. They formed to oppose Israelis illegal occupation of a "Security Zone" in Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah are a legitimate political party in Lebanon. Iran also supports Hamas who has used suicide bombings in retaliation for Israelis murdering their leaders and other crimes against the Palestinian people. Israel has killed 3 times the number of civilians then the Palestinians have and their occupation and stealing land that is legally Palestinian while they carryout repression, apartheid and ethnic cleansing is also terrorism, which the US finances. Hamas has abided by a truce and has not attacked despite Israelis constant incursions into their territory.
The Iranian people have not asked us to "liberate them." Just as the Iraqi people did not ask us to "Liberate them." Supporting terrorist attacks against civilians or launching an attack on the country is not helping the Iranian people.
Iran does have elections and did elect a moderate liberal last election but US rejections to peace overtures discredit Khamati and constant censorship by the Mullahs disenchanted the liberal movement. Still, the Iranian people want freedom and are working towards it on their own. They all reject any US attacks. And these terrorist groups the US support will only turn on us in the future.
Bush wants to control the region for the oil. The Iraqi people know it, the Iranians know it and the world knows it.
Ritter and Carter are experienced in the region and credible. They are well respected world wide. They are also correct in their assessments.
Ritter has been bought and paid for by the Arab interest in the area. Carter is simply an idiot who should have stayed in Georgia rasing his peeanuts. Reading his last book should show you how clueless he is about the middle east.quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
interventor:
How can you say that Iran is not a threat in the region? It is a known fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's. It is a known fact that Iran is a state sponser of terrorism. There is a large portion of the Iranian population who do not support the mullahs or the Iranian "president". Helping them to throw off the yoke of the opppresion they are under would be a good thing.
interventor
For good or ill, Scott Rider, like Jimmah Carter, had been bought and paid for by Arab interests. I didn't trust Chalabi and I don't trust him.
There are a number of groups acting against the current mullacracy, including Kurd separatists, monarchists, Arabs, the Khalq, Zoroastrians, Israeli operative, etc. The mullahs have made a plethora of enemies.
interventor
The MEK had a pretty well armed outfit in Iraq, before the war. We removed their artillery and armor and now everything,except a few pistols for their officers. The one I met said he was an atheist -- in muslim territory that is either brave or foolish.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iran is not a threat to anyone in the region.
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni. It is a known fact by every service member in Iraq. How do you think the insurgents in Iraq got the technology to produce IED's that will punch a hole in an M1 tank? You are clueless about what is really going on in Iraq that involves Iran.
You said yourself that it's OK for the US to support terrorist groups so why are you now pointing the finger at Iran?
Iran supports Hezbollah. Only the US and Israel claim Hezbollah are terrorists. They formed to oppose Israelis illegal occupation of a "Security Zone" in Southern Lebanon. Hezbollah are a legitimate political party in Lebanon. Iran also supports Hamas who has used suicide bombings in retaliation for Israelis murdering their leaders and other crimes against the Palestinian people. Israel has killed 3 times the number of civilians then the Palestinians have and their occupation and stealing land that is legally Palestinian while they carryout repression, apartheid and ethnic cleansing is also terrorism, which the US finances. Hamas has abided by a truce and has not attacked despite Israelis constant incursions into their territory. So, Hezbollah and Hamas aren't terrorist organizations, they just have a their charter the complete distruction of Isreal. Yeah, they sound peacefull to me.
The Iranian people have not asked us to "liberate them." Just as the Iraqi people did not ask us to "Liberate them." Supporting terrorist attacks against civilians or launching an attack on the country is not helping the Iranian people.
Iran does have elections and did elect a moderate liberal last election but US rejections to peace overtures discredit Khamati and constant censorship by the Mullahs disenchanted the liberal movement. Still, the Iranian people want freedom and are working towards it on their own. They all reject any US attacks. And these terrorist groups the US support will only turn on us in the future. Yeah, Iran has elections, just like Venezuela does. I never said attack Iran. I do believe the US could provide material support to democratic groups in Iran. Besides, who said the groups who want to take Iran back from the Mullah's were terrorist, besides you?
Bush wants to control the region for the oil. The Iraqi people know it, the Iranians know it and the world knows it. You always talk about how GWB wants to "control the region for oil". Would you like to explain to me just how much oil we have gotten out of Iraq since 2003? It shouldn't take you long.
Ritter and Carter are experienced in the region and credible. They are well respected world wide. They are also correct in their assessments.
Southern Patriot
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni. It is a known fact by every service member in Iraq. How do you think the insurgents in Iraq got the technology to produce IED's that will punch a hole in an M1 tank? You are clueless about what is really going on in Iraq that involves Iran.
So, Hezbollah and Hamas aren't terrorist organizations, they just have a their
charter the complete distruction of Isreal. Yeah, they sound peacefull to me.
Yeah, Iran has elections, just like Venezuela does. I never said attack Iran. I do believe the US could provide material support to democratic groups in Iran. Besides, who said the groups who want to take Iran back from the Mullah's were terrorist, besides you?
Ritter has been bought and paid for by the Arab interest in the area. Carter is simply an idiot who should have stayed in Georgia rasing his peeanuts. Reading his last book should show you how clueless he is about the middle east.
The Iraqi army was one of the best equipped militaries in world under Saddam. How did they get that technology? The Reagan administration helped them during the 1980's. As many independent military analysts have stated the Iraqi resistance, which is the former army, is very capable of building these "exploding devices" on their own. They have become more accurate and deadly as the war has progressed. Once again we have the Bush administration telling us "they know" yet they haven't produced any evidence. Just like the phantom WMD "they knew" that Saddam had. But as we know, "They don't need no stinkin evidence."
Both Scott Ritter and ABC news have described these groups that the US and Israel are working with as terrorist organizations. There have been attacks on the Iranian military but there has also been an attack on an Iranian Shopping Mall where civilians were targeted and killed. I am unsure how many other attacks there have been on civilians but the groups have been described as terrorist groups. I remember in the 1980's having the same arguments when I was told I was "naive" and didn't know anything when I criticized the US support for bin Laden's merry little band of terrorists.
Hezbollah's charter has nothing to do with Israel at all. They are Lebanese group concerned with the affairs of Lebanon. Hama's charter does not call for the "complete destruction of Israel" or for the extermination of Jews. They don't recognize the right of the UN to give land that the Palestinian people have been the majority people in since the 7th century to European Jews. They are right and the UN actually went against it's own charter when it created the State of Israel.
Hamas calls for the one state of Palestine with equal rights for all. So do many other Europeans, Americans and progressive Jews. The only difference is Hamas is a religious organization that calls for Palestine to be an Islamic State. But have said they would not try to impose Islamic law on the Palestinian people but the people have to vote and chose it themselves. They wouldn't be able to impose it anyway because they only number in the thousands when there are three and a half million Palestinians.
Venezuelan elections are more accurate then ours. The have fully functioning opposition parties that have their own TV and radio stattions and the people vote on an electronic machine that gives out a reciet, like a credit card, the people check the reciept for accuracy, then deposit it in a locked box so the results are double checked.
I have followed the Mideast for 35 years and Carter's book is correct and a side that has not been told. Israel is an ally and the media protects all our allies by telling onky tgheir side of the story.
Tell me what exactly you find inaccurate in ghis book and we will discuss it.
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni. It is a known fact by every service member in Iraq. How do you think the insurgents in Iraq got the technology to produce IED's that will punch a hole in an M1 tank? You are clueless about what is really going on in Iraq that involves Iran.
So, Hezbollah and Hamas aren't terrorist organizations, they just have a their
charter the complete distruction of Isreal. Yeah, they sound peacefull to me.
Yeah, Iran has elections, just like Venezuela does. I never said attack Iran. I do believe the US could provide material support to democratic groups in Iran. Besides, who said the groups who want to take Iran back from the Mullah's were terrorist, besides you?
Ritter has been bought and paid for by the Arab interest in the area. Carter is simply an idiot who should have stayed in Georgia rasing his peeanuts. Reading his last book should show you how clueless he is about the middle east.
The Iraqi army was one of the best equipped militaries in world under Saddam. How did they get that technology? The Reagan administration helped them during the 1980's. As many independent military analysts have stated the Iraqi resistance, which is the former army, is very capable of building these "exploding devices" on their own. They have become more accurate and deadly as the war has progressed. Once again we have the Bush administration telling us "they know" yet they haven't produced any evidence. Just like the phantom WMD "they knew" that Saddam had. But as we know, "They don't need no stinkin evidence."
Both Scott Ritter and ABC news have described these groups that the US and Israel are working with as terrorist organizations. There have been attacks on the Iranian military but there has also been an attack on an Iranian Shopping Mall where civilians were targeted and killed. I am unsure how many other attacks there have been on civilians but the groups have been described as terrorist groups. I remember in the 1980's having the same arguments when I was told I was "naive" and didn't know anything when I criticized the US support for bin Laden's merry little band of terrorists.
Hezbollah's charter has nothing to do with Israel at all. They are Lebanese group concerned with the affairs of Lebanon. Hama's charter does not call for the "complete destruction of Israel" or for the extermination of Jews. They don't recognize the right of the UN to give land that the Palestinian people have been the majority people in since the 7th century to European Jews. They are right and the UN actually went against it's own charter when it created the State of Israel.
Hamas calls for the one state of Palestine with equal rights for all. So do many other Europeans, Americans and progressive Jews. The only difference is Hamas is a religious organization that calls for Palestine to be an Islamic State. But have said they would not try to impose Islamic law on the Palestinian people but the people have to vote and chose it themselves. They wouldn't be able to impose it anyway because they only number in the thousands when there are three and a half million Palestinians.
Venezuelan elections are more accurate then ours. The have fully functioning opposition parties that have their own TV and radio stattions and the people vote on an electronic machine that gives out a reciet, like a credit card, the people check the reciept for accuracy, then deposit it in a locked box so the results are double checked.
I have followed the Mideast for 35 years and Carter's book is correct and a side that has not been told. Israel is an ally and the media protects all our allies by telling onky tgheir side of the story.
Tell me what exactly you find inaccurate in ghis book and we will discuss it.
Sorry, I am at work and have to rush my answer and in my haste I failed to seperate Southern Patriot's post from mine. It may make it confusing. So I am reposting it correctly.
Sorry
Pogo142
Small Talker
Posted 12 April 2007 02:47 PM Hide Post
Southern Patriot
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni. It is a known fact by every service member in Iraq. How do you think the insurgents in Iraq got the technology to produce IED's that will punch a hole in an M1 tank? You are clueless about what is really going on in Iraq that involves Iran.
So, Hezbollah and Hamas aren't terrorist organizations, they just have a their
charter the complete distruction of Isreal. Yeah, they sound peacefull to me.
Yeah, Iran has elections, just like Venezuela does. I never said attack Iran. I do believe the US could provide material support to democratic groups in Iran. Besides, who said the groups who want to take Iran back from the Mullah's were terrorist, besides you?
Ritter has been bought and paid for by the Arab interest in the area. Carter is simply an idiot who should have stayed in Georgia rasing his peeanuts. Reading his last book should show you how clueless he is about the middle east.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Iraqi army was one of the best equipped militaries in world under Saddam. How did they get that technology? The Reagan administration helped them during the 1980's. As many independent military analysts have stated the Iraqi resistance, which is the former army, is very capable of building these "exploding devices" on their own. They have become more accurate and deadly as the war has progressed. Once again we have the Bush administration telling us "they know" yet they haven't produced any evidence. Just like the phantom WMD "they knew" that Saddam had. But as we know, "They don't need no stinkin evidence."
Both Scott Ritter and ABC news have described these groups that the US and Israel are working with as terrorist organizations. There have been attacks on the Iranian military but there has also been an attack on an Iranian Shopping Mall where civilians were targeted and killed. I am unsure how many other attacks there have been on civilians but the groups have been described as terrorist groups. I remember in the 1980's having the same arguments when I was told I was "naive" and didn't know anything when I criticized the US support for bin Laden's merry little band of terrorists.
Hezbollah's charter has nothing to do with Israel at all. They are Lebanese group concerned with the affairs of Lebanon. Hama's charter does not call for the "complete destruction of Israel" or for the extermination of Jews. They don't recognize the right of the UN to give land that the Palestinian people have been the majority people in since the 7th century to European Jews. They are right and the UN actually went against it's own charter when it created the State of Israel.
Hamas calls for the one state of Palestine with equal rights for all. So do many other Europeans, Americans and progressive Jews. The only difference is Hamas is a religious organization that calls for Palestine to be an Islamic State. But have said they would not try to impose Islamic law on the Palestinian people but the people have to vote and chose it themselves. They wouldn't be able to impose it anyway because they only number in the thousands when there are three and a half million Palestinians.
Venezuelan elections are more accurate then ours. The have fully functioning opposition parties that have their own TV and radio stattions and the people vote on an electronic machine that gives out a reciet, like a credit card, the people check the reciept for accuracy, then deposit it in a locked box so the results are double checked.
I have followed the Mideast for 35 years and Carter's book is correct and a side that has not been told. Israel is an ally and the media protects all our allies by telling onky tgheir side of the story.
Tell me what exactly you find inaccurate in ghis book and we will discuss it.
Sorry
Pogo142
Small Talker
Posted 12 April 2007 02:47 PM Hide Post
Southern Patriot
It is not a "know fact that Iran is assisting insurgents in Iraq with IED's." It's another Bush claim that goes against evidence and logic, like his claims of Iraqi WMD and connections to al Qaeda. And if we weren't in Iraq it wouldn't even be an issue. They are assisting the Shiites in their fight against the Sunni. The majority of the IED attacks are coming from the Sunni. It is a known fact by every service member in Iraq. How do you think the insurgents in Iraq got the technology to produce IED's that will punch a hole in an M1 tank? You are clueless about what is really going on in Iraq that involves Iran.
So, Hezbollah and Hamas aren't terrorist organizations, they just have a their
charter the complete distruction of Isreal. Yeah, they sound peacefull to me.
Yeah, Iran has elections, just like Venezuela does. I never said attack Iran. I do believe the US could provide material support to democratic groups in Iran. Besides, who said the groups who want to take Iran back from the Mullah's were terrorist, besides you?
Ritter has been bought and paid for by the Arab interest in the area. Carter is simply an idiot who should have stayed in Georgia rasing his peeanuts. Reading his last book should show you how clueless he is about the middle east.
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The Iraqi army was one of the best equipped militaries in world under Saddam. How did they get that technology? The Reagan administration helped them during the 1980's. As many independent military analysts have stated the Iraqi resistance, which is the former army, is very capable of building these "exploding devices" on their own. They have become more accurate and deadly as the war has progressed. Once again we have the Bush administration telling us "they know" yet they haven't produced any evidence. Just like the phantom WMD "they knew" that Saddam had. But as we know, "They don't need no stinkin evidence."
Both Scott Ritter and ABC news have described these groups that the US and Israel are working with as terrorist organizations. There have been attacks on the Iranian military but there has also been an attack on an Iranian Shopping Mall where civilians were targeted and killed. I am unsure how many other attacks there have been on civilians but the groups have been described as terrorist groups. I remember in the 1980's having the same arguments when I was told I was "naive" and didn't know anything when I criticized the US support for bin Laden's merry little band of terrorists.
Hezbollah's charter has nothing to do with Israel at all. They are Lebanese group concerned with the affairs of Lebanon. Hama's charter does not call for the "complete destruction of Israel" or for the extermination of Jews. They don't recognize the right of the UN to give land that the Palestinian people have been the majority people in since the 7th century to European Jews. They are right and the UN actually went against it's own charter when it created the State of Israel.
Hamas calls for the one state of Palestine with equal rights for all. So do many other Europeans, Americans and progressive Jews. The only difference is Hamas is a religious organization that calls for Palestine to be an Islamic State. But have said they would not try to impose Islamic law on the Palestinian people but the people have to vote and chose it themselves. They wouldn't be able to impose it anyway because they only number in the thousands when there are three and a half million Palestinians.
Venezuelan elections are more accurate then ours. The have fully functioning opposition parties that have their own TV and radio stattions and the people vote on an electronic machine that gives out a reciet, like a credit card, the people check the reciept for accuracy, then deposit it in a locked box so the results are double checked.
I have followed the Mideast for 35 years and Carter's book is correct and a side that has not been told. Israel is an ally and the media protects all our allies by telling onky tgheir side of the story.
Tell me what exactly you find inaccurate in ghis book and we will discuss it.