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Originally Posted by CaptainCrusader:

Condie, are you genuinely afraid of people owning firearms or are you just falling in line with the warped ideology of other left-wing "progressives"?

PM me how to send you copies of the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

That should keep your shredder running for a little longer.

It's Lefty, pacified, pri*ks like YOU, who are willing to put your faith in the current Government.

 

I agree, some people should not have access to guns, not even rubber band guns.

You would probably shoot yourself in the eye.

Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

___________________________
Now that you have offered you standard non-responsive spin, try actually addressing these important issues raised in the item I posted:   

 

<<<Consider, for example, the federal law requiring licensed gun dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives when a single purchaser buys two or more handguns within five days. The A.T.F. knows that multiple purchases are an indicator of trafficking, and that traffickers can evade the law by making a single purchase from five, 10 or 20 different gun stores. So why doesn’t the A.T.F. crosscheck those purchases? Because Congress, under pressure from the N.R.A., prevents the federal government from keeping a centralized database that could instantly identify multiple sales. Gun sale records are instead inconveniently “archived” by the nation’s gun dealers at 60,000 separate locations — the stores or residences of the nation’s federally licensed gun dealers, with no requirement for digital records.

 

Rather than preventing crimes by identifying a trafficker before he sells guns to potentially lethal criminals, the A.T.F. has to wait until the police recover those guns from multiple crime scenes. Then law enforcement officials can begin the laborious process of tracing each gun from the manufacturer or importer to various middlemen, the retail seller, the original retail purchaser and one or more subsequent buyers.

 

Meanwhile, dealers who work with traffickers are protected by anotherN.R.A.-backed measure that ensures that firearms dealers do not have to maintain inventories.Think about that: A car dealer keeps an inventory to know when cars go missing so the police can track them down as quickly as possible. Why the lack of curiosity among gun dealers? Well, gun dealers must report lost and stolen guns to the A.T.F. because large numbers of missing weapons are a red flag for trafficking. Without an inventory requirement, it’s easier to sell guns off the books.>>>

Last edited by Contendahh
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

___________________________
Now that you have offered you standard non-responsive spin, try actually addressing these important issues raised in the item I posted:   

 

<<<Consider, for example, the federal law requiring licensed gun dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives when a single purchaser buys two or more handguns within five days. The A.T.F. knows that multiple purchases are an indicator of trafficking, and that traffickers can evade the law by making a single purchase from five, 10 or 20 different gun stores. So why doesn’t the A.T.F. crosscheck those purchases? Because Congress, under pressure from the N.R.A., prevents the federal government from keeping a centralized database that could instantly identify multiple sales. Gun sale records are instead inconveniently “archived” by the nation’s gun dealers at 60,000 separate locations — the stores or residences of the nation’s federally licensed gun dealers, with no requirement for digital records.

 

Rather than preventing crimes by identifying a trafficker before he sells guns to potentially lethal criminals, the A.T.F. has to wait until the police recover those guns from multiple crime scenes. Then law enforcement officials can begin the laborious process of tracing each gun from the manufacturer or importer to various middlemen, the retail seller, the original retail purchaser and one or more subsequent buyers.

 

Meanwhile, dealers who work with traffickers are protected by anotherN.R.A.-backed measure that ensures that firearms dealers do not have to maintain inventories.Think about that: A car dealer keeps an inventory to know when cars go missing so the police can track them down as quickly as possible. Why the lack of curiosity among gun dealers? Well, gun dealers must report lost and stolen guns to the A.T.F. because large numbers of missing weapons are a red flag for trafficking. Without an inventory requirement, it’s easier to sell guns off the books.>>>

 

 

Another knee jerk reaction, from an obvious illiterate on "guns"

 

I have purchased 2 handguns in ONE transaction.

Filled out the paperwork, passed the NICS, and took them home and locked them in the safe.

To my knowledge, they have never escaped to wreak havoc on society.

 

As far as inventory, the last time ATF was allowed to make such data public, 85% of gun dealers had no crime guns traced to them, and just 1.2% of dealers were responsible for 57% of the guns traced to crimes. Manufacturers have records of what dealers they ship guns to.

Simply trace the criminally used firearm back to the dealer, and question the ones with an unusual amount of "thefts".

Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

___________________________
Now that you have offered you standard non-responsive spin, try actually addressing these important issues raised in the item I posted:   

 

<<<Consider, for example, the federal law requiring licensed gun dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives when a single purchaser buys two or more handguns within five days. The A.T.F. knows that multiple purchases are an indicator of trafficking, and that traffickers can evade the law by making a single purchase from five, 10 or 20 different gun stores. So why doesn’t the A.T.F. crosscheck those purchases? Because Congress, under pressure from the N.R.A., prevents the federal government from keeping a centralized database that could instantly identify multiple sales. Gun sale records are instead inconveniently “archived” by the nation’s gun dealers at 60,000 separate locations — the stores or residences of the nation’s federally licensed gun dealers, with no requirement for digital records.

 

It sure didn't matter to the BATF and the Obama DoJ to follow up on information that gun stores near the Mexican border gave them with timely prosecutions. Instead hundreds of weapons went to the drug cartels.

 

Rather than preventing crimes by identifying a trafficker before he sells guns to potentially lethal criminals, the A.T.F. has to wait until the police recover those guns from multiple crime scenes. Then law enforcement officials can begin the laborious process of tracing each gun from the manufacturer or importer to various middlemen, the retail seller, the original retail purchaser and one or more subsequent buyers.

 

 I have never heard of tracing guns that weren't found at a crime scene. Do the police need a psychic to get the serial numbers and a mind reader to tell if a person who owns the weapon is planning to use that weapon in a crime. I suspect that if a gunrunner has used certain stores before, a BATF agent can take a break from his p*orn viewing and go to the stores with a warrant or just ask nicely.

 

Meanwhile, dealers who work with traffickers are protected by anotherN.R.A.-backed measure that ensures that firearms dealers do not have to maintain inventories.Think about that: A car dealer keeps an inventory to know when cars go missing so the police can track them down as quickly as possible. Why the lack of curiosity among gun dealers? Well, gun dealers must report lost and stolen guns to the A.T.F. because large numbers of missing weapons are a red flag for trafficking. Without an inventory requirement, it’s easier to sell guns off the books.>>>

The dealer still must maintain the permanent records of transfers of the weapons in his inventory, but he can sell out and take a vacation. The provision in question is for small part time FFL holders:

 

Several of the annual riders are needed to correct oversteps in regulatory authority. This category includes a prohibition on revoking or denying a federal firearms license due to the licensee’s low business volume, meaning that small dealers can’t be closed down simply because they don’t have the same sales volume as “big box” stores. The bill also prohibits any regulation mandating annual physical inventories by ffls, a laborious and time-consuming process that’s generally unnecessary because of the detailed acquisition and disposition records that dealers must maintain.

https://www.nraila.org/article...ins-in-spending-bill

Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

___________________________
Now that you have offered you standard non-responsive spin, try actually addressing these important issues raised in the item I posted:   

 

<<<Consider, for example, the federal law requiring licensed gun dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives when a single purchaser buys two or more handguns within five days. The A.T.F. knows that multiple purchases are an indicator of trafficking, and that traffickers can evade the law by making a single purchase from five, 10 or 20 different gun stores. So why doesn’t the A.T.F. crosscheck those purchases? Because Congress, under pressure from the N.R.A., prevents the federal government from keeping a centralized database that could instantly identify multiple sales. Gun sale records are instead inconveniently “archived” by the nation’s gun dealers at 60,000 separate locations — the stores or residences of the nation’s federally licensed gun dealers, with no requirement for digital records.

 

Rather than preventing crimes by identifying a trafficker before he sells guns to potentially lethal criminals, the A.T.F. has to wait until the police recover those guns from multiple crime scenes. Then law enforcement officials can begin the laborious process of tracing each gun from the manufacturer or importer to various middlemen, the retail seller, the original retail purchaser and one or more subsequent buyers.

 

Meanwhile, dealers who work with traffickers are protected by anotherN.R.A.-backed measure that ensures that firearms dealers do not have to maintain inventories.Think about that: A car dealer keeps an inventory to know when cars go missing so the police can track them down as quickly as possible. Why the lack of curiosity among gun dealers? Well, gun dealers must report lost and stolen guns to the A.T.F. because large numbers of missing weapons are a red flag for trafficking. Without an inventory requirement, it’s easier to sell guns off the books.>>>

_______________________________________________________________

There are several weaknesses in your argument. First, you assume that the buyer used the same dealer in every instance, instead of rotating once a week, or so.  The reason for requiring the sales to be kept separate is to confound the government from assembling a national database.  Such databases are convenient for seizing firearms, but not controlling criminal use.  Canada spend well over a billion on their small population, without an suitable effect on the crime rate. then, abandoned the effort, 

 

Control, control, control -- the left's true mantra.

Originally Posted by Harald Weissberg:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrusader:

Condie, are you genuinely afraid of people owning firearms or are you just falling in line with the warped ideology of other left-wing "progressives"?

PM me how to send you copies of the US Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

That should keep your shredder running for a little longer.

It's Lefty, pacified, pri*ks like YOU, who are willing to put your faith in the current Government.

 

I agree, some people should not have access to guns, not even rubber band guns.

You would probably shoot yourself in the eye.

??????????

Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

___________________________
Now that you have offered you standard non-responsive spin, try actually addressing these important issues raised in the item I posted:   

 

<<<Consider, for example, the federal law requiring licensed gun dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives when a single purchaser buys two or more handguns within five days. The A.T.F. knows that multiple purchases are an indicator of trafficking, and that traffickers can evade the law by making a single purchase from five, 10 or 20 different gun stores. So why doesn’t the A.T.F. crosscheck those purchases? Because Congress, under pressure from the N.R.A., prevents the federal government from keeping a centralized database that could instantly identify multiple sales. Gun sale records are instead inconveniently “archived” by the nation’s gun dealers at 60,000 separate locations — the stores or residences of the nation’s federally licensed gun dealers, with no requirement for digital records.

 

Rather than preventing crimes by identifying a trafficker before he sells guns to potentially lethal criminals, the A.T.F. has to wait until the police recover those guns from multiple crime scenes. Then law enforcement officials can begin the laborious process of tracing each gun from the manufacturer or importer to various middlemen, the retail seller, the original retail purchaser and one or more subsequent buyers.

 

Meanwhile, dealers who work with traffickers are protected by anotherN.R.A.-backed measure that ensures that firearms dealers do not have to maintain inventories.Think about that: A car dealer keeps an inventory to know when cars go missing so the police can track them down as quickly as possible. Why the lack of curiosity among gun dealers? Well, gun dealers must report lost and stolen guns to the A.T.F. because large numbers of missing weapons are a red flag for trafficking. Without an inventory requirement, it’s easier to sell guns off the books.>>>

_______________________________________________________________

There are several weaknesses in your argument. First, you assume that the buyer used the same dealer in every instance, instead of rotating once a week, or so.  The reason for requiring the sales to be kept separate is to confound the government from assembling a national database.  Such databases are convenient for seizing firearms, but not controlling criminal use.  Canada spend well over a billion on their small population, without an suitable effect on the crime rate. then, abandoned the effort, 

 

Control, control, control -- the left's true mantra.

___

Oh, yeah--that old stale paranoid argument that the gummint wants to develop information on firearms purchases so they will know where all the guns are when they activate the black helicopters to swoop down on our houses, unload the storm troopers with their flash grenades and battering rams, and forcibly invade and search our premises for guns to confiscate.  Grow up, dire.

Beternnun, what part of Dire's post suggested he thought any such thing as you claimed? YOU are the paranoid one, thinking every legal gun owner is "looking for someone to make their day so they can shoot them down like a dog".  Something tells me if that was the mentality of legal gun owners you are around you wouldn't be here to have this discussion. What are you afraid of?

Really, what sort of idiot thinks that another unenforced gun law will solve the real source of all our violence problems: our moral decline. Even if the lord god Obama uses his magic wand to make guns unconstitutionally disappear (Well, for a month or less. The drug cartels will have another hot product to sell!), our soulless society will use other devices to hurt and kill each other.

 

  http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/...dzB&ocid=SL5DDHP

It’s a fair question, and not only because the N.R.A. has single-handedly dictated the shape of the debate over guns for decades.

How?

Whether they own guns or not, Americans should understand the outsize role the N.R.A. plays, not only in thwarting sensible gun safety laws but also in undermining law enforcement by abetting gun traffickers, criminal gun dealers and criminal gun users.

How? Proof of this ridiculous claim?

The N.R.A., which claims some 4.5 million members, often professes to speak for all gun owners — hunters, sportsmen, collectors and ordinary Americans who keep guns for self-defense.

Proof?

But on some issues, most gun owners clearly reject the party line.

What issues?

 

 

Such a BS article.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by Stanky:
Originally Posted by direstraits:
Originally Posted by Contendahh:
Originally Posted by direstraits:

Member for 53 years -- presently, Golden Eagle. 

 

Condie isn't allowed pointy scissors, any more.

___

You, of course, are allowed to keep your pointy head.

_____________________________________________-

Pardon, Condie, he must think himself one of the French committee apres the Revolution, determining who may or may not keep their heads.

 

I've made the one suggestion that would keep the crazies from easily obtaining firearms -- include state records in FBI database.  Hopefully, Condie isn't amongst them.

 

___________________________________________________

It would also help if the Obama administration would enforce the existing laws on the books. I guess he doesn't want Dem voters in prison on election day.

___________________________
Now that you have offered you standard non-responsive spin, try actually addressing these important issues raised in the item I posted:   

 

<<<Consider, for example, the federal law requiring licensed gun dealers to notify the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives when a single purchaser buys two or more handguns within five days. The A.T.F. knows that multiple purchases are an indicator of trafficking, and that traffickers can evade the law by making a single purchase from five, 10 or 20 different gun stores. So why doesn’t the A.T.F. crosscheck those purchases? Because Congress, under pressure from the N.R.A., prevents the federal government from keeping a centralized database that could instantly identify multiple sales. Gun sale records are instead inconveniently “archived” by the nation’s gun dealers at 60,000 separate locations — the stores or residences of the nation’s federally licensed gun dealers, with no requirement for digital records.

 

Rather than preventing crimes by identifying a trafficker before he sells guns to potentially lethal criminals, the A.T.F. has to wait until the police recover those guns from multiple crime scenes. Then law enforcement officials can begin the laborious process of tracing each gun from the manufacturer or importer to various middlemen, the retail seller, the original retail purchaser and one or more subsequent buyers.

 

Meanwhile, dealers who work with traffickers are protected by anotherN.R.A.-backed measure that ensures that firearms dealers do not have to maintain inventories.Think about that: A car dealer keeps an inventory to know when cars go missing so the police can track them down as quickly as possible. Why the lack of curiosity among gun dealers? Well, gun dealers must report lost and stolen guns to the A.T.F. because large numbers of missing weapons are a red flag for trafficking. Without an inventory requirement, it’s easier to sell guns off the books.>>>

_______________________________________________________________

There are several weaknesses in your argument. First, you assume that the buyer used the same dealer in every instance, instead of rotating once a week, or so.  The reason for requiring the sales to be kept separate is to confound the government from assembling a national database.  Such databases are convenient for seizing firearms, but not controlling criminal use.  Canada spend well over a billion on their small population, without an suitable effect on the crime rate. then, abandoned the effort, 

 

Control, control, control -- the left's true mantra.

___

Oh, yeah--that old stale paranoid argument that the gummint wants to develop information on firearms purchases so they will know where all the guns are when they activate the black helicopters to swoop down on our houses, unload the storm troopers with their flash grenades and battering rams, and forcibly invade and search our premises for guns to confiscate.  Grow up, dire.

__________________________________________________________________

Where have I mentioned such?  Its those who have full time armed guards and fleets of helicopters that seem to fear the most --  Obama and friends.  I'm in good company with those who distrust government -- those who wrote the constitution -- dividing up powers to discourage a consolidation of power in the hands of a few. 

 

As to my comment on a central inventory doing little to catch criminals. once more, from Wiki:

 

"The Canadian Firearms Registry was part of the Firearms Act and was managed by the Canadian Firearms Program of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). It required the registration of all restricted and prohibited firearms in Canada. It was introduced by the Liberal government of Prime Minister Jean Chrétien in 1993 and implemented by successive Justice Ministers Allan Rock and Anne McLellan."

 

 

 

 

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