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Grandmother's actions prevent a School Shooting

With all the talk and speculation about gun control and everything else, in the wake of the Florida school shooting, we have a story that almost slipped through the cracks about another, potential, school shooting that was averted and stopped because of the actions of a Grandmother.   It had to be very difficult to turn in your grandson but it would have been much more difficult to just sluff it off and dismiss it thinking it surely couldn't happen only to hear about it actually happening when you could have done something about it.

Here you have a grandmother who read disturbing information that led her to believe her grandson was close to doing a school shooting and she turned him into the police who also, after considering the evidence, arrested him and averted what could have been yet another senseless loss of innocent life.  This is how you stop these things from happening yet the media gives it little coverage and actually, most likely, only covered it due to the close timing of the Florida school shooting.   How about let's make this Grandmother a National Hero and give her the type attention, even more, than we give these school shooters who get posted all over the media as people discect these horrendous events.  I say highlight those that prevent these things and let's give them some credit for their actions, as difficult as they must have been.

In the case of the Florida shooter there was someone who thought enough to enlighten law enforcement but unfortunately, there didn't appear to be the follow-up that, in retrospect, should have happened.  All kinds of people are now saying they knew this guy was off and potentially was this type of person but it seems only one person actually alerted authorities only to have them dismiss it as not having enough merit to warrant continual followup and action. Now we discover that this teen was on depression and mental illness meds and so many other shooters were also found to be on these.   

Although it's not popular to think or say so I also believe the secular teachings of our schools are also partly to blame.  We have removed God and Morality from schools and classes to the point where we only teach evolution and that there is no special significance to human life but that human life, like all other life, evolved from some accidental occurrence that happened so long ago between two molecules or atoms and from it life evolved.  Human life is considered no more significant than that of trees or of insects for they all go back to the same origins.  I'm not suggesting to teach Bible as they once did in the 1950's' or to make schools teach theology but at least give some acknowledgment that there are other theories of how mankind got here and that there are those who feel and believe that human life is an exceptional thing coming from a creator and not just from accident.  But then that is my own opinion as to what I believe may help.  One thing is for certain though and that is these school shootings are a contemporary thing and wasn't even on the radar back in the 1950's and through the 1970's so it's not totally without merit to at least ask what has changed in that time period.  

Be as the Bereans ( Acts 17:11 )

Last edited by gbrk
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i believe a lot of our challenges go back to elementary.   When I was young most parents worked to stay together, now divorce and abortion are easy as well as accepted.  we were raised with the church being an influence. We started school every day with the pledge of allegiance.  We had to make sports teams, not automatic put on a team and given play time. We earned awards not given participation awards.   Most of us  had c****s at a young age, we were taught responsibility.  We didn't have 1000 toys to play with.  Very few kids I went to school with were spoiled. Now many are spoiled.  Children were to be seen not heard. Now they are put first until the parent gets an itch and divorce.  

Let us not attack symptoms and find the cause.

Now with that said, an interview said the shooter would sit by himself.  I have tried to bridge a gap with kids like that, don't know if I helped or not. However kids are not trained to help with those possible social opportunities.   A teacher pointed to guns, I point back to her and as where were you as the shooter sank into the dark side? 

Br’er Rabbit posted:

In America, we can favor no one religion over another. How are you gonna feel about the school teaching fundamentals of ALL religions. Your kids/grandkids will be learning about the Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Buddhist Religions, and many others. How are you going to feel when that happens?

What happened back in the 1950's?  How was that accomplished?

Now for myself, answering your question, as long as it was presented in an educational manner not a doctrinal whose right, wrong, best, worst, biased kind of way I would have no problem and believe that it ought to be taught and our kids, adults etc would be more enlightened to know and understand each.  Might eliminate a lot of problems we see today.   As for Jewish, Christian and Muslim Religions they all worship ONE deity, ONE Creator and actually all spring from and have in common Abraham.  As for the other Religions knowledge about them never hurts, again teaching not indoctrination.   Also, unless I'm totally wrong, all major Religions teach and give significance to Human life or most do.  As it is today there is indoctrination into only ONE way and ONE method or theory with all others considered taboo and eliminated from any chance to be studied unless you are at a private school.  

 

Last edited by gbrk

After watching a show, one among many, about two teens that killed a classmate, I am curious about how many kids murder kids each year, and NOT in school shootings. These two used a shovel and a knife. Seems to be a **** of a lot, and even in the UK it's a high number. But gun grabbers only want to talk about the school shootings, and push the other problems under the rug. One kid stole poison/acid from the school chemical closet and put it in his teacher's water bottle.  She almost died, and had to have multiple surgeries to save her life, and imagine what damage he could have done to the school population if he'd wanted to do so? He did toss a few of the acid crystals at classmates, burning their clothes and school books.

It's NOT the guns that is the problem, but the lying left uses guns to stir up emotions, hate and fear and has somehow made it a Republican's problem. 1130, gb, religion is tolerated in schools, as long as it's islam. Public schools meet with muslim leaders to find out how to make schools more "muslim friendly". Want to try to get them to meet with you to find out how to make them more Christian friendly?? Try it. Also, ask them for spaces to be provided in the schools so Christians can go and pray during the day, and ask for other concessions for Christians. 

Last edited by antimaim
Accommodating Muslim Children in American Schools

 Author's Title: What Teachers of Young Children Should Know About Islam
 Author(s) Name: James L. Hoot, Tunde Szecsi, and Samira Moosa
 Year of Publication: 2003
 Search Related Keywords: Anthropometrics/Functional Requirements/Accessibility  Development and Learning  Influence of Culture/Ethnicity  Meaning and Symbolism  Planning and Policy   Playground  Preference/Attitude  Privacy  Programming   Quality of Life and Well Being  School/Educational Facility  Social Interaction and Neighboring  Space Planning  Student 
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Design Issue
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This study examined how educators can better accommodate Muslim children in American schools.
  • While the Muslim population is growing quickly in the United States and the world, non-Muslims may not have an accurate understanding of Islam and related practices, potentially leading to prejudice.
  • Recent world events (the Gulf War, Iranian conflict, Palestinian conflict, War on Terror, and war with Iraq) are associated with growing anti-Muslim sentiment in the United States.
  • Educators may not be prepared to meet the needs of the growing numbers of Muslim children attending public schools in the United States.
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Design Criteria
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Author Identified:
  • Be aware that Muslims may interpret the tenets of Islam in different ways, resulting in different practices.
  • Consider how to accommodate the needs of Muslim students (e.g. a space away from food service while fasting, a space to pray briefly throughout the day) in the school environment.
  • Consider that religious beliefs may prohibit Muslim students from participating in school events and activities (e.g. mixed gender play, loud music, Christian-based holiday celebrations).
  • Provide private bathrooms, showers, and changing areas to ensure students’ privacy.
  • Provide facilities for Muslim children to cleanse themselves after toileting.
  • Provide children of different genders with separate spaces for physical education and swimming to ease gender-based privacy concerns.
  • Be aware that some Muslims may prefer that imagery portraying humans not be displayed in schools.

InformeDesign Identified:
  • Consult Muslim parents and community members when designing for Muslim children.
  • Be aware that even young children have needs pertinent to their religious beliefs.
  • Provide appropriate food preparation and serving areas in schools to accommodate students’ dietary restrictions (e.g. avoiding pork or pork-based products, using separate utensils for pork-based and other foods).
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Key Concepts
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  • Islam, a monotheistic religion based on the Qur’an and the Sunnah (holy books) whose followers are called Muslims, has more than one billion followers worldwide, with six million living in the United States.
  • Islam is the world’s fastest growing religion and its followers will soon become the second largest religious group in the United States.
  • Islamic schools and places of worship are growing in numbers in the United States.
  • subjects generally expressed concern that educators understand Islamic practices including fasting, clothing preferences, gender-based privacy issues, potential concerns regarding music, art, and holiday celebrations, and that educators aid Muslim students who are teased.
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Research Method
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  • Muslim parents, educators, and community leaders in Western New York were interviewed regarding the needs of Muslim school children and the role of educators in meeting those needs.
  • Literature about Islam and Muslim students was reviewed.
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Limitations
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  • The authors did not identify any limitations.
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spacerhttps://www.informedesign.org/Rs_detail/rsId/2028

So you see GB, if you convert to islam you'll be able to teach and practice your religion in public schools. Even the FFR group will leave you alone.

*************************************************

At Shenendehowa East High School in New York, Principal Donald Flynt wanted to make sure Muslim students had a place to pray during Ramadan — something essential for them to do during the month-long holiday — so he offered up a room for those students to use during the day.

It’s a perfectly reasonable accommodation and one that allows Muslims to pray when they need without awkwardly trying to do it anywhere else and letting them focus on the rest of their school day without concern.

There are two aspects of this story worth noting.

The first, reported by the Albany Times Union‘s Wendy Liberatore, comes from an anonymous parent who clearly didn’t understand why Muslim students deserved anything.

“It has opened a Pandora’s box,” said one mother, who was initially willing to be named, but later asked to be anonymous, citing concerns her children could be harassed. “If I was a Devil worshipper, would I get a room?”

 

There’s no “Pandora’s box” to worry about because this box was always open. Public schools can make reasonable accommodations for students. Administrators can give Muslims a place to pray. Teachers can give students an extension on a paper if they were out sick. Students with disabilities can get access to a faculty elevator. These are simple requests that make life better for the students and take little to no extra work on the part of the adults.

And yes, if young Satanists had a legitimate need for space during the school day (they don’t), the school could give them a room as well.

The other reaction is from the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Because the school was making this accommodation for Muslims, the report asked FFRF what they thought about this. They usually get upset when schools do anything nice for religious people, right? They freak out over everything, right?!

 

They didn’t bite.

“Our first impression is that this is a reasonable accommodation,” said [FFRF co-President Annie Laurie] Gaylor. “It is important that schools not get carried away and it’s always worth monitoring. Principals should beware appearing to promote prayer or praise it in students.”

 

No big deal, they said, assuming it didn’t get out of hand.

The Blaze, Glenn Beck‘s publication, was so taken aback by that response, it became part of their headline.

 

 

Of course it’s reasonable. Why wouldn’t it be? The only people surprised by FFRF’s response are the people who wrongly think they fight any public mention of religion. They don’t. They only go after the excesses when people ask them to.

 

What this school is doing is fine. No one needs to worry.

 

 

 

Last edited by antimaim
1130 posted:

i believe a lot of our challenges go back to elementary.   When I was young most parents worked to stay together, now divorce and abortion are easy as well as accepted.  we were raised with the church being an influence. We started school every day with the pledge of allegiance.  We had to make sports teams, not automatic put on a team and given play time. We earned awards not given participation awards.   Most of us  had c****s at a young age, we were taught responsibility.  We didn't have 1000 toys to play with.  Very few kids I went to school with were spoiled. Now many are spoiled.  Children were to be seen not heard. Now they are put first until the parent gets an itch and divorce.  

Let us not attack symptoms and find the cause.

Now with that said, an interview said the shooter would sit by himself.  I have tried to bridge a gap with kids like that, don't know if I helped or not. However kids are not trained to help with those possible social opportunities.   A teacher pointed to guns, I point back to her and as where were you as the shooter sank into the dark side? 

So, in your opinion, what's the cause?  Parents are too overworked to pay attention to their kids?  Too much financial pressure to keep up with the Jonses? Something else?

there is not a single solution. however first Materialism is a good place to start.  Many two income families are not because of trying to put food on the table but rather fancy cars, bigger houses, the latest cell phone, big vacations, etc.  Lack of parenting skills.   Best example i have seen of right way was a friend who he and his wife decided she would stay home with the kids tell they were all in elementary school.  They made a sacrifice of the cruises, new cars, etc. for their family.    I do believe we need to get unions our of education (and government). The unions are about themselves not the kids,  Put discipline back into schools.  However I could write a book on all this. What we need to know is there have always been crazy people, now we have more angry people with more ways to anger them.

Naio posted:

Why don't we just ban AR-15s? 

And what if you did?  What happens to all those American citizens who legally purchased these guns, some at great expense, when they were legal?   Are you going to be in for setting a precedent of confiscation of legally purchased and possessed weapons because that goes down a long dark road and one which would meet with great public discord and opposition, quite likely armed opposition?  

What about our Constitutional rights?  Are we going to alter them by legislation and then again if you go down that road where is the end?  There are constitutionally prescribed methods for altering the constitution but many don't like those because it usually means that the agenda doesn't get done.  It's super hard and difficult to alter the Constitution for a reason.  So based on that what should be done?  Where is the error?  

Sadly, in this case, EVERYTHING WAS DONE that could have prevented this shooting from happening.  A concerned citizen that knew this guy alerted authorities, in January about him and his intentions yet even after 39 visits to his house by law enforcement nothing further happened.  So where is the fault?  In the gun used?  The problem, in this case, is not the gun but the mentally deranged person and with those who failed in their job to follow up and notify others of this dangerous person.  It was known he owned this type gun and had those thoughts and leanings toward a school shooting yet nothing was done, prior to that horrible day yet now we are going to blame the gun, yet again.

In this case, I believe it could have been prevented, and should have been.  People unwittingly have the blood of innocents on their hands and they will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.  Questions also will remain such as if he was prohibited from legally buying a gun like this would he have ended up with one anyway?  Questions that can't be answered at this time.

The reason for the shooting falls directly on the FBI, it's their
fault entirely. They were more interested in playing grab azz
instead of their job. They still seem to be too involved in politics
and preoccupied with the failed attempted coup against Trump
for Hilda. How long does justice wait to hang her for this act of
treason.?
Kraven posted:
The reason for the shooting falls directly on the FBI, it's their
fault entirely. They were more interested in playing grab azz
instead of their job. They still seem to be too involved in politics
and preoccupied with the failed attempted coup against Trump
for Hilda. How long does justice wait to hang her for this act of
treason.?

Really?  What about the Las Vegas concert shooting?  You think the young adults in Parkland care about the FBI narrative you're pushing? What's wrong with banning AR-15s?

Naio posted:
Kraven posted:
The reason for the shooting falls directly on the FBI, it's their
fault entirely. They were more interested in playing grab azz
instead of their job. They still seem to be too involved in politics
and preoccupied with the failed attempted coup against Trump
for Hilda. How long does justice wait to hang her for this act of
treason.?

Really?  What about the Las Vegas concert shooting?  You think the young adults in Parkland care about the FBI narrative you're pushing? What's wrong with banning AR-15s?

I can understand why some people would want the specific gun banned but the AR15 is not the only type weapon available so then what next?  Shall we go on to the SKS or other type military weapons?   What about those already in possession of citizens who paid out money for them?  What about those guns?.  Once all those are gone what about the shotguns and/or the long rifles of various calibers like the 30-06 or 7mm for they can be used to kill innocent people in the hands of unstable people. 

Since you/we are concerned about all these innocent people being killed, innocent children being killed what about the many more (than guns) that are killed by drunk drivers?  Since we are solving the ills of the world, the Nation by banning the instruments of death, not the people, what shall we do with alcohol sold in bars or restaurants?  Are we going to eliminate drunk driving deaths when we eliminate alcohol?  Same principal as the AR15's .. if we take the instruments of death away from the insane and crazy people or those that can't control themselves is that going to stop deaths?   This is America and we are under a Constitution that has been in effect for well over 200 years and has worked great. 

Why can't we ban the AR15's?  Because one it won't work and two because when you start down that road there is no finish line until you eliminate all of them and the only way you are going to do that is another Civil War where you confiscate all the purchased guns and that will not ever happen until, by force and violence, you overcome the legal and patriotic people that have guns now in a free Country.  

One last thought!  Think about this.  Why didn't the Democrats, under Obama, when they had total control of the Senate and House and with Obama in the White House, pass the legislation they are requiring of the Republicans now?  It was their choice not to.  They could have but they didn't just like they didn't solve the ills of the minority community that they always pledge to help.  The Republicans have their problems also but Democrats shouldn't get all high and mighty about gun control when they did nothing when they had the opportunity to do the very thing they claim should be done now.

The killing sprees have all been done by liberal Dems in some
form and not just in this country but world wide.
What's wrong with banning liberals, BLM felons, snowflakes,
 college professors, pink hatters' MS 13, all illegals, the Clintons
and other various types of the same crap....  yea yea, I get two
votes.
Kraven posted:
The killing sprees have all been done by liberal Dems in some
form and not just in this country but world wide.
What's wrong with banning liberals, BLM felons, snowflakes,
 college professors, pink hatters' MS 13, all illegals, the Clintons
and other various types of the same crap....  yea yea, I get two
votes.

And there you have it. The most ignorant thing on the forums. Congrats, ConspiracyKrow. Just when nobody thought you could get any more stupid, you go and prove everybody wrong. Great Job!

Kraven posted:
High fences of some type with a guard shack for no one comes
or leaves without it being allowed. To start with and of course
employing retired military. Reopen all the nut houses that were
closed back in the 50's and 60's.....  They did help.. 

Kids need to go to school in prisons and how about you check and see when those 'nut houses' closed. Your boy, Reagan, did that in the 80s.

The below is quoted from PBS  --->  Deinstitutionalization Article  <--- Click here

"Thus deinstitutionalization has helped create the mental illness crisis by discharging people from public psychiatric hospitals without ensuring that they received the medication and rehabilitation services necessary for them to live successfully in the community. Deinstitutionalization further exacerbated the situation because, once the public psychiatric beds had been closed, they were not available for people who later became mentally ill, and this situation continues up to the present. Consequently, approximately 2.2 million severely mentally ill people do not receive any psychiatric treatment.

Deinstitutionalization was based on the principle that severe mental illness should be treated in the least restrictive setting. As further defined by President Jimmy Carter's Commission on Mental Health, this ideology rested on "the objective of maintaining the greatest degree of freedom, self-determination, autonomy, dignity, and integrity of body, mind, and spirit for the individual while he or she participates in treatment or receives services."8 This is a laudable goal and for many, perhaps for the majority of those who are deinstitutionalized, it has been at least partially realized.

For a substantial minority, however, deinstitutionalization has been a psychiatric Titanic. Their lives are virtually devoid of "dignity" or "integrity of body, mind, and spirit." "Self-determination" often means merely that the person has a choice of soup kitchens. The "least restrictive setting" frequently turns out to be a cardboard box, a jail cell, or a terror-filled existence plagued by both real and imaginary enemies."

Now Reagan's 1981 budget cuts certainly did hit and affect the number of funds going to mentally Ill-treatment but must of Reagan's acts was to transfer a lot of what was burdening the Federal Government down back to the States.  Transferring power from the Federal Government back to the States.  That's something that the Constitution calls for and is designed to do itself.

The Below section is taken from here.  <

 

Under President Ronald Reagan, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act repeals Carter’s community health legislation and establishes block grants for the states, ending the federal government’s role in providing services to the mentally ill.  Federal mental-health spending decreases by 30 percent.

The IDEA and proposal to RELEASE a greater number of these people back into society or much lesser confinements was a Jimmy Carter era idea and proposal and Jimmy Carter and his Administration was Democratic.  Again both parties have some share of the problem so it's not totally honest to blame one totally without acknowledging the contribution from the other.  

Coinciding with a movement during the 1970s for rehabilitation of people with severe mental illnesses, the Mental Health Systems Act supported and financed community mental health support systems, which coordinated general health care, mental health care, and social support services. The law followed the 1978 Report of the President's Commission on Mental Health, which made recommendations for improving mental health care in the United States. While some concerns existed about the methodology followed by the President's Committee, the report served as the foundation for the MHSA, which in turn was seen as landmark legislation in U.S. mental health policy.

The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, signed by President Ronald Reagan on August 13, 1981, repealed most of the MHSA. The Patients' Bill of Rights, section 501, was not repealed; per Congressional record, the Congress felt that state provisions were sufficient and section 501 served as a recommendation to states to review and refine existing policies.

Last edited by Br’er Rabbit
You need to calm down thumper and try to keep that thumb
away from you face. Now, it's not my problem or Reagan's it's
more a problem you have since you have never accepted one
wrong action of mobumer. He's lied his way for the eight years
he screwed over this country. You've never taken one small part
of responsibility for the Clintons are the mob of liberal felons you
consider good people.
 
So keep your crybaby Reagan complaints to yourself as I don't
give a very much dam.
 

Some of the finest, well adjusted, NORMAL people in the country can tell you about being held accountable and actually punished in and out of school. I remember when kids would fight it out and the teachers and parents couldn't have cared less, as long as no one ganged up on one. That's how bullies were handled. I remember one bully getting his lights turned off by a kid at the ball field. He didn't come back after that, and neither his parents or any other parents had anything to say about it. Now days, your kid can be shot, but don't ask the gun grabbers to do anything to protect them before that happens. Having security will upset their little snowflakes. Hmmmmmm, being shot and shot at must not be as upsetting. Gun grabber/liberal logic.

Last edited by antimaim

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