What About The Rapture?

The "rapture," so to speak is never mentioned anywhere in the bible.  As far as I am concerned that means teaching it as truth is totally unscriptural.

The way I see it God started the world the way He wanted to He will end it the way he wants. Rapture, no rapture, millennial kingdom, no millennial kingdom as a former pastor put it simply the end will be good for the saved, bad for the lost.

 

That is so true.  Salvation does not hinge upon what eschatological view one has; only if one by grace, through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross -- believes and receives His "paid in full" gift of eternal life. 

 

But, studying prophecy, End Time and other, is interesting -- and hopefully, either to agree or to disagree -- it will get folks to dig into Scripture more deeply.

 

Since 30% of the Bible is prophecy and since prophecy is one way to prove the validity of God's Written Word -- it is good for us to study those prophecies.

 

You are right -- believing or disbelieving in the Rapture, Tribulation, Millennial Kingdom will not affect one's salvation.   But, when they do happen -- can you imagine the surprise of those who say those things are not in the Bible?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Actually, the Rapture is in the Bible -- both defined in Scripture and in actual word.  The three underlined Scripture references below speak of the Rapture.  And, the actual word is shown following that.  This is from my post above:

 

So, now that we have agreed that John 14:1-3, 1 Corinthians 15:50-53, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 -- are all speaking of the Rapture, of Christ coming to take His church, His body of believers, out of this world and into heaven -- which many of us call the Rapture, based upon the phrase "shall be caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. 

 

In Greek this phrase is harpazo which is translated in the Latin Vulgate as rapiemur.  The Latin rapiemur is transliterated into our English word Rapture.  Thus, we in the English speaking world refer to this event as the Rapture.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Ok, Bill, so the verses wrote quoted do talk about the second coming of Christ.  They, however, say nothing about certain people being "left behind" while others are taken to be with the Lord. It simply says the dead in Christ will first arise followed by those who are alive when The Lord comes again.  You are teaching a "theory" that wasn't even around until the 1830s and was developed by a man.  To quote our Lord Jesus Christ, "In vain do they worship me teaching for doctrine the commandments of MEN."  Matthew 15:9

Bill why do you have to go and run away from a conversation and topic then start a new topic?  Possibly trying to deceive people and run from the video I posted concerning how FALSE and DECEPTIVE the Pr-Tribuation Rapture is?

As I stated under the other topic you are so predictable and I stated over there that you would most likely go and start yet another topic which sure enough here you have.  How utterly predictable you are.

Now how about going back over to the other topic and posting your responses.

How about addressing the statements made in the Youtube Video about how false and un-Scriptural the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is as it doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible.

Also Bill how about trying not to be so JUDGMENTAL.  Since you are a professing Christian explain to us where in Scriptures are you encouraged to stand in Judgment of your Christian brothers and sisters, something you very often do?  Not only do you question a persons salvation you have in this post incorrectly referred to me as legalistic.   You also attempt deception to deflect attention from the topic at hand by injection of a subject and topic which I never brought into the conversation and that is of the 2nd Coming.

WHY NOT FOLLOW AN EXISTING THREAD AND CONVERSATION WITHOUT RUNNING AND STARTING A NEW ONE WHERE EVERYONE CANNOT FOLLOW THE ORIGINAL THREAD? 

Bill you still have questions to answer on the other thread yet you run over here and start a new one.  Again how utterly predictable of you in an attempt to dodge and weave your way around direct answers to direct questions.  

Shame on you!

For those of you who wish to view a very detailed and accurate response to the pre-tribulation rapture and why it is non-scriptural I encourage you to view the following video on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoXNLCGFNTc


Warning though it is almost 2 hours in length but is filled with Scriptural references and proof that the pre-trib rapture timing scheme that Bill is promoting is totally inaccurate, non-scriptural (not backed up by scripture) .

I encourage all that view it to have your Bible and check the references.

 

I presume you are referring to the Scripture passages found in John 14:1-3, 1 Corinthians 15:50-53, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.   These passages have nothing to do with His Second Coming -- only with the Rapture.

 

In John 14:3 He says, "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."

 

This is speaking of when He comes to Rapture His church from this world.  At His Second Coming, we, the body of believers, the bride of Christ -- will be returning with him (Revelation 19:14), not waiting for Him to come get us.

 

1 Corinthians 15:50-53, "Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.  Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

 

Reading "we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" can only be speaking of the Rapture where we will receive our immortal bodies.  This has to happen at the Rapture -- for the bride of Christ MUST be in heaven during the Tribulation (Revelation 6-18) for her to be the bride at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb (Revelation 19:6-9).

 

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18, "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

 

Once again, this Scripture passages has nothing to do with His Second Coming -- only with the Rapture.   And, this clearly tells us that when He comes in the air, in the clouds, we "shall be caught up" to be with Him in the air.  In Greek this phrase "shall be caught up" is harpazo which is translated in the Latin Vulgate as rapiemur.  The Latin rapiemur is transliterated into our English word Rapture.  Thus, we in the English speaking world refer to this event as the Rapture.

 

You say, "You are teaching a "theory" that wasn't even around until the 1830s. . ."

 

Yet, the Scripture passages which I have quoted and explained -- were written by the apostles John and Paul -- in the 1st century.  These are men who met Jesus Christ face-to-face -- and they have written clearly about the Rapture which is to come.  Darby may have explained these passages and emphasized these passages -- but, the subject and meaning of these passages are directly from men who knew Jesus Christ personally.

 

You quote Matthew 15:9, "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the commandments of MEN."    If you will read that passage in full, instead of pulling one verse out of context -- you will find that He was addressing the Pharisees and Scribes, to which He said, "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you"  (Matthew 15:7).

 

Today, I could picture Him saying this to the Roman Catholic church -- for they have created volumes of traditions and doctrines which are the doctrines of men.

 

But, to close, my Friend, if you will study those Scripture passages, you will find they all refer to the Rapture and not His Second Coming.  If you want to read about His Second Coming, you might start with Matthew 24:29-31 and then jump over to Revelation and start reading at Revelation 19:11 through Revelation 20:6.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

The "Rapture" refers to a passage in First Thessalonians, chapter 4, which talks about Christians being "caught up" in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Many Christians believe that this being "caught up" to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation which is headed our way in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time

 

But notice, in verse 17, Paul says that "...we who are alive, who are left," shall be caught up. Remember that...those who are "left" get caught up to meet the Lord.

Luke 17 and a similar passage in Matthew 24 talk about the coming of the Lord being like the days of Noah and the days of Lot. Matthew 24 puts it this way: "As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man...they ate, they drank, they married and they did not know until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Then two men will be in the field, one is taken and one is left. Two women grinding at the mill, one is taken one is left."

"See," Rapture enthusiasts say, "One is taken, one is left...the Rapture! Jesus takes the Christians and leaves behind non-Christians!" Two problems with that interpretation: First, Jesus' coming is being compared to the days of Noah and the days of Lot. After the flood, who was left? Noah and his family...the good guys...the bad guys were taken! After Sodom and Gomorrah went up in smoke, who was left? Lot and his daughters...the good guys...the bad guys were taken! Second, remember 1 Thessalonians? It says that those who are "left" get to meet Jesus in the air. The good guys are left behind to meet Jesus.

In other words, you want to be left behind so that you can get caught up in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air and accompany Him back to earth at His 2nd and final coming. There will be no Rapture ...that view is not scriptural.

Praised be Jesus forever!!

Amen, Nathan. Blessed be God forever. Glory be the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end, Amen!!

One alternate interpretation/thought/suggestion as to approaching those scriptures:

Matthew 24:37-38 (NLT)
37  “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day.
38  In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat.

or

Luke 17:22-35 (NLT)
22  Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see the day when the Son of Man returns, but you won’t see it.
23  People will tell you, ‘Look, there is the Son of Man,’ or ‘Here he is,’ but don’t go out and follow them.
24  For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other, so it will be on the day when the Son of Man comes.
25  But first the Son of Man must suffer terribly and be rejected by this generation.
26  “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day.
27  In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28  “And the world will be as it was in the days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building—
29  until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30  Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31  On that day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home.
32  Remember what happened to Lot’s wife!
33  If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it.
34  That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left.
35  Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.”
Luke 17:37 (NLT)
37  “Where will this happen, Lord?” the disciples asked. Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.”

also consider the following:
2 Peter 2:5-9 (NLT)
5  And God did not spare the ancient world—except for Noah and the seven others in his family. Noah warned the world of God’s righteous judgment. So God protected Noah when he destroyed the world of ungodly people with a vast flood.
6  Later, God condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and turned them into heaps of ashes. He made them an example of what will happen to ungodly people.
7  But God also rescued Lot out of Sodom because he was a righteous man who was sick of the shameful immorality of the wicked people around him.
8  Yes, Lot was a righteous man who was tormented in his soul by the wickedness he saw and heard day after day.
9  So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while keeping the wicked under punishment until the day of final judgment.

The alternate interpretation is along these lines:
It should be recognized that, from Scripture, Noah was warned that God's Judgment was coming and to build the ark.  He didn't know the exact day or hour either and it took many years to build the ark so it didn't happen all at once and Noah did have time to try and reach those around him and warn them of impending Judgment. 

Both Noah and Lot are examples of God's Wrath/Judgment falling upon people and the Godly faithful being rescued from that Judgment.  Note in Luke 17:22, people will long for Christ to come (rescue them) but they will have to wait.  Contrast that with Matthew 24:21-22

Matthew 24:21-22 (NLT)
21  For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again.
22  In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

The Pre-Wrath position is that Christians, Believers, The Church will endure persecution/Tribulation under the reign of Antichrist who will turn on the Jews, after his agreement with them at the beginning of the 70th week, and will also turn against Christians and it will not be a pleasant time for all of God's people.  As in the days of Noah, of Lot, God's faithful, Saints, Elect, Saved will be saved from God's Judgment/Wrath against the world.  The picture is the same as with Noah and Lot in that God will protect those of His own and then His Judgment will fall upon the others.

The Pre-Wrath position is not that God protects His people from persecution/tribulation at the hands of men and the Antichrist and there is no scripture that indicates such.  Christians have endured Tribulation and persecution throughout history and will in the future, some even are this very day in Muslim countries.  Our promise, from God, is protection and to be kept from HIS WRATH, God's Wrath, coming Judgment upon the world. 

I personally believe that there is Biblical or Scriptural evidence for God's people being protected, caught up to meet Christ in the sky and that it will be an instantaneous event and not something slow, no one will have time or opportunity to gather their things but it will happen at once.  No one knows the time or day but I do believe, as in the parable of the Fig Tree, that Christians have been given knowledge and instruction that they will be able to recognize the season and know that the time is near/close, at least for those and that generation that is alive at the time the signs are revealed indicating the end times are hear.  Signs beginning with the agreement between Antichrist and Israel that signals the start of the 70th week of Daniel.

Well you can run but you can't hide by starting a new thread I will just copy and repost the questions here, yet again.  

Bill you have mentioned to many here before that they have not answered your questions.  Are you going to do the same to me or are you going to answer mine?

Here are the questions ask under the other subject, just to remind you:

Answer the questions Bill:    In case you have forgotten the questions specifically addressed to you I will repeat them here by copying and pasting below from past post:

#1)    So BILL Where are the Pre-Trib Scriptures telling ( LITERALLY ) of a Pr-Tribulation Rapture?  Not Scriptures to say there is a rapture but scriptures saying it will be before the 70th week of Daniel or the Tribulation period.

#2)  IS Revelation 4:1 (as most Pre-Tribbers use) indication of the Rapture? 

#3 ) If you answered question #2 in the affirmative then IF so, EXPLAIN to us how the Rapture is NOT a Bodily Rapture for clearly in verse 2 John is "IN the Spirit" and not in the body for his body is still in the cave. 

#4) if you do not view, as most Pre-Trib advocates that Rev 4:1 is the Rapture then where in Revelation is the Rapture mentioned?  I suggest that without taking Revelation 4:1 symbolically (meaning that it is symbolic of) then there is Nowhere in the book of Revelation that the Rapture is mentioned, if you are a Pre-Trib person.  If I'm wrong then where is it mentioned in Revelation and if you suggest it's not why would something as important be left out?

#5) Where in the Bible does Jesus Christ teach and tell about a pre-trib rapture?  NOT if a Rapture exist but where does he teach that is prior to the Tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24?

In the latter post I ask again:

#1)  So tell us Bill, forget judging people as you are famous for doing, what scriptures literally tell us that the Rapture is Pre-Trib (before the Tribulation period)?  Where did Christ tell us that the rapture occurs before the Antichrist comes on the scene and before the agreement is signed with Israel?

#2)  Tell us Bill where in Revelation is the Rapture mentioned and saw by John?

And then one additional question was added to the above when it was evident that you started this topic/thread and that question is:

"ONE MORE QUESTION .... WHY do you feel it necessary to move away from this subject/topic and start a different one of your own regarding this topic?"

gbrk--you say:

 

"#3 ) If you answered question #2 in the affirmative then IF so, EXPLAIN to us how the Rapture is NOT a Bodily Rapture for clearly in verse 2 John is "IN the Spirit" and not in the body for his body is still in the cave. "

Just wondering--where is that "cave" you refer to?

       
       


Taken that John wrote Revelation from Patmos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patmos) which at that time was a Roman prison colony and he was there it's speculative but feasible that he could have been in a cave but yes I took a bit of liberty in saying that for I surely don't know. 

Revelation 4:1-3 (NLT)
1 Then as I looked, I saw a door standing open in heaven, and the same voice I had heard before spoke to me like a trumpet blast. The voice said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.”
2  And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it.
3  The one sitting on the throne was as brilliant as gemstones—like jasper and carnelian. And the glow of an emerald circled his throne like a rainbow.

Many pre-trib advocates (of which I used to be) say see John is called up (caught up) here in this verse.  The problems though start to compound if you look at it literally or symbolically.  First off John is but one person so besides the symbolic "come up here" you have to say John is symbolic of the whole Church.  Furthermore vs 2 indicates John was Instantly in the Spirit whereas Rapture advocates (Pre-trib, Post, Mid, Pre-Wrath) recognize the Rapture as a bodily event (dead first then those alive) caught up in bodily forms not spirit so the symbolism somehow breaks down here.  Also unlike the Rapture, where there is a literal trumpet blow Rev 4:1 has a voice "Like a trumpet) and lastly whereas the Rapture is to meet Christ in the Clouds/in the sky John's spirit is brought into heaven so again you have to use some constructive interpretation in order to make it fit as indicative of the Rapture.

I just made the statement about John and the cave to say his body wasn't in heaven after being called up it was back on earth.  Honestly I can't say there is any evidence it was in a cave but it was on Patmos. 

Now, PreWrath advocates (of which I am now) believe Christians/believers/The Church will be caught up in the sky to be with Christ and was forecast by Christ in Matthew 24:29-30 and observed happening and described by John, from Heaven, writing in Revelation 7:9-17. 

If a pretribulation advocate who believes the Rapture occurs but believes it's before the 7 year tribulation period begins (70th week of Daniel) doesn't believe Rev 4:1 is where it occurs and is recorded then there is no other place in Revelation that they have to point to and say there is the Rapture.  That means, for a pre-trib person if they don't use Rev 4:1 then they have to account for why Christ never mentioned or was recorded teaching the Rapture and that Revelation never recorded it happening.  Something very difficult to sell for it being as important to the Church as it is.

I've been waiting for Bill to answer or comment and give his interpretation but  Bill remains SILENT.  For someone who is so confident in believing the pre-tribualtion rapture is the only possibility I can only reason that he is either speechless, waiting on someone else to back him up on it or give him and answer or he just doesn't want to answer.

In response to my fellow forum friends who believe that the Rapture is not a valid event or doctrine I an understand where sometimes it's taught that various scriptures refers to the resurrection and even other interpretations.    I do believe that the Bible is harmonious in content and that what is taught in the Old Testament is mirrored in the New Testament and from book to book.  In other words what is taught in Matthew is the same as in Luke and John and Revelation and also mirrors what the Disciples and Paul taught to the Churches. 

Regardless of what you believe, whether for the Rapture (Catching up) of the Saints or whether it's just talking about Resurrection or otherwise I believe it's important that we (Individual Christians) are confident in what each of us believes and can defend it by and of our own selves.  That we are not just repeating or mirroring what our pastor, teachers, or Church is saying it is.   We should be comfortable with what we believe and able to defend it thoroughly and following the doctrine throughout the scriptures.

I also believe that whatever is true is repeated and mirrored throughout the Scriptures and that given it's importance that it is a doctrine that not only would be and was taught by Jesus Christ Himself but echoed by the Disciples, Paul, and others that walked with Jesus and repeated His direct teachings.  If thus, we disagree, then let us do so respectfully having put forth our position and reasoning for that position and belief and allow the Holy Spirit to confirm it within and give each peace about it.

The problem with those who allege the so-called Rapture is that they split the Second Coming into different events. In the case of the pre-trib view, Christ is thought to have three comings—one when he was born in Bethlehem, one when he returns for the rapture at the tribulation’s beginning, and one at tribulation’s end, when he establishes the millennium. This three-comings view is foreign to Scripture.

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist theologian Dale Moody, who wrote: "Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

From Catholic answers!!

Praised be Jesus forever!!!

.

As far as the Rapture is concerned it will go like this, a person who deserves

Heaven when they die will either go to heaven or purgatory and their body will

go into the grave. This is determined by the particular judgment as soon as

they die. At the end of the world, when the general judgment takes place,

the person who is already in heaven will not be judged again. -2 Cor 5:8-9.

 

His body will be resurrected to meet his soul and then wait for the creation

of the New Heaven and new Earth. The only people who will be judged at the

general judgment are those who remain on earth at the second coming of

Christ -Rev 20:1-15. The person bound for heaven who sees the coming of  Christ will first be raptured into the air in body and soul, and await the creation

of the New Heaven and New Earth - 1Thess 4:16-17 / 2 Peter 3:10-13.

 

The people that do not warrant Heaven will remain on earth momentanily

until they are summoned for the general judgment, then sent to hell body

and soul - Jn 5:28-29 / 12:48.

 

 

 

Copied and pasted from http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm I hope you will read it in it's entirety.

Exposing the "Secret Rapture" Theory

[A Scriptural Refutation]

["That there should be no schism in the Body"]

By: L. Ray Smith

The return of our Creator, Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, to this Earth in supernal power, glory, and majesty, to vivify and transform mere mortals into the very sons of God, has got to be among the greatest events in the history of the universe! How much of its inspiration and splendor is sacrificed to theories that would have this grand event occur in stages, or in secrecy, or worse yet, on a gloomy night? I hope and pray that the revealed truth regarding Christ’s one and only second coming will lift and inspire all who meditate on its grandeur.

RAPTURE DOCTRINE CAUSES DIVISION

I believe there is more at stake with regards to the teaching of the rapture than a mere difference of opinion on a theological doctrine. Even among those who accept and believe in the reconciliation, justification, glorification, and salvation of all, it is a divisive doctrine.

Paul instructs us:

"Now I am entreating you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ [sounds to me like he is about to say something rather important], that all may be saying the same thing, and there may be no schisms among you, but you may be attuned to the same mind and to the same opinion" (I Cor. 1:10).

And again:

"... that there may be no schism in the body ..." (I Cor. 12:25).

This also includes,

"... endeavoring to keep the unity of the spirit with the tie of peace ..." (Eph. 4:3).

We will see that the rapture theory is in direct conflict with these Scriptures.

Not only is there a line drawn between the Jewish (circumcision) saints and the Gentile (uncircumcision) saints, but now it has even caused a division between individual members of the uncircumcision saints. Do the Scriptures actually teach two separate second comings of our Lord to vivify His saints, or is the rapture an unwarranted deduction based on human reasoning?

It IS possible to know, one way or the other. This is not a hazy topic in the Scriptures. You will be amazed just how easy it is to understand God’s Word regarding Christ’s return to His saints--ALL OF HIS SAINTS.

The mere idea of two separate and distinct comings might not be harmful in itself. However, when we examine many of the reasons given for why there should be separate resurrections at two separate comings of our Lord, then I believe the harm becomes more apparent. And the teaching that the uncircumcision resurrection, under Paul’s administration, is far superior to that of Israel’s is not substantiated by Scripture. Peter and Israel are then relegated to an inferior calling, expectation, etc. The Scriptures do not teach such a theory.

It is inferred that the saints of Israel will not only have to go through the great tribulation, but possibly God’s indignation as well, while the saints of the Gentiles are supposedly raptured away long before these horrors manifest themselves on the earth. Do the Scriptures really support the idea that compared to the Gentile saints, Israel has been given an inferior calling, an inferior expectation, an inferior resurrection with inferior bodies, and a position of inferior rulership with Christ on an inferior terrestrial setting?

It makes me sad to see sincere believers buy into a divisive theory of "who’s the greatest." Peter was a spiritual giant, just as Paul. There was mutual love and respect for each other, not competition, as they worked together sharing knowledge for the benefit of the saints in their care. Later we will look at some remarkable but often overlooked verses in Peter’s epistles that directly correlate with Paul’s epistles.

Hi GD,

 

Put away your Herbert W. Armstrong library, find a real Christian church fellowship and get involved -- and, then, come back and talk to us about the Rapture.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

RealCchristian churches don't believe in a rapture.  It's not biblical.  Maybe Bill can blame this on the apocrypha too!! :-)

God bless!!

 

Good Evening:

I am disappointed with the concept of the so called rapture.  In my mind it represents the laziness of humankind.  Instead of trying to solve the problems of the world, these lazy individuals expect God to step in and solve these problems for them.  Got unbelievers?  No problem, the rapture will fix those heathens!  Got evil in the world?  No problem, we'll just bail and let those bad things stew in their own evil juices, serves them right! 

 

Jesus never taught such untruths or spoke approvingly of such spiritual laziness.  His is a living religion, a religion of active service, of not only wanting to make the world a better place, of actually living your life to make a difference in the world. 

 

Imagine for a moment if all those who were content to laze around waiting for God to solve the problems of the world, actually lived the lives of loving service to mankind which Jesus taught his followers to do.  Imagine if instead of judging their fellows to doom, these so called Christians reached out in unjudgmental loving service and changed the world.

 

It could happen.  It will happen.  The real question is, when will it happen to you?

 

I have clearly shown you, in Scripture, where God tells us about the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Millennial Kingdom.  But, if you keep you eyes squeezed tightly closed -- I suppose you can keep saying, "I don't see it!   I don't see it!"  

 

But, I do have to say that, in that respect, you remind me of our atheist Friends who will stand in the middle of the interstate, shouting, "What truck?" -- as the 18-wheeler roars toward them.  The only difference is, they are denying God -- and you are denying God's Word.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Hi Al,

 

The reason you cannot find the Rapture in the Bible -- is that you are looking in the wrong book.  You are still touting your New Age Urantia Book bible brought to earth in the 1950s by extraterrestrials.  Put that book in the trash dumpster -- and find a real Bible.  Then, if you are honest, you WILL be able to find the Rapture, the Tribulation, and the Millennial Kingdom.  I have given you the Scripture passages; all you have to do is to read them WITH your eyes and mind open.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Sure would like to see what brilliant response you wrote bill but you are blocked.  Gee what a shame.

 

I'm sure you took up a couple of feet of space so I will repost so intelligent will creatures can read what I wrote.

 

I am disappointed with the concept of the so called rapture.  In my mind it represents the laziness of humankind.  Instead of trying to solve the problems of the world, these lazy individuals expect God to step in and solve these problems for them.  Got unbelievers?  No problem, the rapture will fix those heathens!  Got evil in the world?  No problem, we'll just bail and let those bad things stew in their own evil juices, serves them right!

 

Jesus never taught such untruths or spoke approvingly of such spiritual laziness.  His is a living religion, a religion of active service, of not only wanting to make the world a better place, of actually living your life to make a difference in the world.

 

Imagine for a moment if all those who were content to laze around waiting for God to solve the problems of the world, actually lived the lives of loving service to mankind which Jesus taught his followers to do.  Imagine if instead of judging their fellows to doom, these so called Christians reached out in unjudgmental loving service and changed the world.

 

It could happen.  It will happen.  The real question is, when will it happen to you?

 

Hi Al Williams,

 

You are too busy trying to sell your New Age Urantia Book bible on the forum to even know what is or is not in the Bible.  Is the Rapture in your New Age Urantia Book bible?  I don't know.  How do your extraterrestrials who brought this amazing book to humans in the 1950s view life anyway? 

 

Wait, I believe I am getting a clue.  Is that refrain I hear from Twilight Zone -- or is it from Star Trek?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

No rapture in any of the 73 books of the Bible.  There will be a second coming, but not a third, or a fourth.   

And perhaps a bit less sarcasm would be appropriate.  If one is going to claim to be a Christian, then one should speak like a Christian.  No needs for insults, accusations of brainwashing, etc.  Those seems to come out when someone has no truth to fall back on, as in the case of the rapture, once save always saved, etc.  When you try to get folks to believe those lies, and you get called on it, admit it, without all the insults and sarcasm.

Praised be Jesus forever!!!