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178 replies

What Does The Bible Say About It?

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by magikalis:
Mr. Gray,
Never mind. Just forget I even made an attempt to communicate with you. It's pointless.
The fact that you had to discuss this young man's sexuality with your wife and how and when you would or would not approach him. Get real. Just tell him he is not welcome and get it over with. Quit dancing around it.
Hi Magi,

Oh, but you are wrong. He was and still is very welcome in my home, in my church, in my Bible study. I like the young man. I just do not like his lifestyle; but that will not keep me from being his friend.

Magi, I get the feeling that you want to argue -- but, you do not want to discuss the issue. If that is true, so be it. But stop trying to spin it to be my fault that we cannot dialogue.

I am open to a civil dialogue at all times. But, don't expect me to forget my Bible or my God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
Bill,

You have no answered TSC's questions.

quote:
Do you eat shrimp or lobster?
Do you shave your sidburns or trim your beard?
Do you support the slave trade?
Do you wear clothing of two or more fibers?
Do you preach against men having sex with their wives during "that time of the month"?
Do you support death to any who curse their parents?
Do you buy from farms that plant two crops in the same field?
T tnt5862Post Master
Bill , I think its funny that the ones that accept it have gay family. Wink I know they love them ,just as Jesus loves them ,but why twist the Bible around to defend them in their sex lives is beyond me . The younger folks are turning this nation into a mess and want us older folks to think its ok ,,it dont matter what the Bible says . Roll Eyes
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by tnt5862:
Bill , I think its funny that the ones that accept it have gay family. Wink I know they love them ,just as Jesus loves them ,but why twist the Bible around to defend them in their sex lives is beyond me . The younger folks are turning this nation into a mess and want us older folks to think its ok ,,it dont matter what the Bible says . Roll Eyes


What a shame you and Bill are willing to ignore the mulitude of sins committed by "young people" and concentrate one this particualar one. Once again the seven deadly sins are as follows:

1.Lust
2.Gluttony
3.Greed
4.Sloth (laziness)
5.Wrath
6.Envy
7.Pride (self righteousness would be an example of pride)

Wonder why we don't apply the same level of interest to ALL these sins. Perhaps if could think of something besides the sins of "lust", our nation would be in better shape. Wrath, envy, pride, greed, laziness and gluttony effect our daily lives, yet you and Bill are only interested in sex. Roll Eyes

*The sin of "pride" once again rears its ugly head!
T S CT S COld Faithful
TNT, I do not have any gay family members that I am aware of. I could have some that are so back in the closet that I am not aware of their orientation. Like I've said to others though, my GAYDAR is broken - and probably because I don't use it.

Let me ask you -

Do you eat shrimp or lobster?
Do you shave your sidburns or trim your beard?
Do you support the slave trade?
Do you wear clothing of two or more fibers?
Do you preach against men having sex with their wives during "that time of the month"?
Do you support death to any who curse their parents?
Do you buy from farms that plant two crops in the same field?

The Bible speaks out plainly in favor or against all of those things. It does not speak out PLAINLY on homosexuality. Christ did not have one word to say on the matter. He did have a lot to say about children not honoring their parents though. In Matthew 15:4-6 Christ says:

For God said, "Honor your father and mother," and "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death."

But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, "Whatever help you might otherwise have received form me is a gift devoted to God," he is not to "honor his father" with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition."

When I read that it seems to me that Jesus is agreeing with and even reiterating the law that states that anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death. Christ never said anything about gays being shamed, shunned, or killed. So why rally against them? Rally against the sinners that Christ so obviously pointed out - the ones who fail to honor their parents. Wouldn't that be obeying the Bible? Isn't that a clearer and more definitive law that Christians have been given? Why not preach that and see to it that all Christians are aware of that? Everyone has parents, so everyone is affected by that law.

Wonder why that preaching gets so little attention and the verses about gays that can be construed and translated in a number of different ways warrants many, many threads on discussion forums?
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
Divorce is a sin! Come over here and let me smack you with my Bible!

Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." —Matthew 19:6

"In Mark 10:9 Jesus states, "What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." No one is ever to separate a husband and wife. I wouldn't want to be a judge, who grants divorces. I wouldn't want to be the lawmaker, who allows for all sorts of unscriptural grounds for divorce. And by the way, there are NO SCRIPTURAL GROUNDS FOR DIVORCE. In Matthew 5:32, Jesus said, "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." Carefully notice that Jesus never gave anyone permission to divorce because of adultery. What Jesus said is that a man would not be responsible for causing his wife to commit adultery, if she was ALREADY committing adultery. How could he be? To divorce your spouse is a sin, and you will also be responsible for their sinning if they remarry. But you can't be held responsible for causing your spouse to commit a sin that they're already committing. This is all Jesus meant. If committing adultery is grounds for divorce, then Matthew 5:28 gives every wife Biblical grounds to divorce."

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Family/Marriage/divorce_is_a_sin.htm
Last edited by meanasasnake
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
Greed is a sin!

I bet all those young'uns expect us to believe that greed is O.K. too. Shame on them! People shopping at Walmart on Sunday! Going straight to hell - STRAIGHT to hell!


GREED - THE HEART REVEALED

Greed - Dictionary Definition - An inordinate desire for something, the desire for more.....particularly wealth.

Billy Graham in his book THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS says,


"The great sin of America is greed and avarice. We are so bent on making money that we do not have time for God. Many businesses are kept open unnecessarily on Sunday, thus desecrating God's Day in order to gain a few extra dollars. How many times have I asked men to go to church, and they have said they had to work. They are so busy making money they have no time for God. (Does this describe you?) He continues..."The sin of greed is probably the greatest stumbling block to the Kingdom of Heaven in America today. Jesus warned in Matthew 19:24 that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a man who trusts in his riches.


This is worth repeating.

..."The sin of greed is probably the greatest stumbling block to the Kingdom of Heaven in America today. Jesus warned in Matthew 19:24 that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a man who trusts in his riches."
Last edited by meanasasnake
meanasasnakemeanasasnakeOld Faithful
Pride is a sin!!

There is one sin that has ****ed more souls than any other—the SIN OF PRIDE. As I search the Word of God, I find that God hates the SIN OF PRIDE seemingly more than any other sins. Truly he hates all sin, and will punish all sin; for God cannot condone anything contrary to His holy nature. But His hatred seems to go out more forcibly against this sin of pride, for it robs Him of His glory; and through His rebellious, sinful creatures it even tries to take Him off His throne.

The fact that pride is universal is undeniable. Haughtiness, arrogance, conceit, inordinate self-esteem, vanity, and vainglory are as common as the air we breathe. You and I both know that this is true. Ours is a proud, defiant age! Yes, internationally, nationally, socially, and personally. The sin of pride is responsible for so much of the confusion, sorrow, heartache, and tragedy in our world today. Yes, pride in its various guises is an evidence that we are living in the last days, as we are told in II Tim. 3:2,4: “Men shall be lovers of their own selves...boasters, proud...heady, highminded.” So I believe this is a timely message, warning men of the sin of pride, of God’s hatred for it and His judgment against it.

Pride heads the list of the seven deadly sins held to be fatal to spiritual progress, which are: Pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and slothfulness. The Scriptures also give pride the place of preeminence in these verses found in Proverbs 6:16-19: “These six things doth the LORD hate; yea, seven are an abomination unto him: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Anyone find themselves in this?

http://www.eternallifeministries.org/lrs_pride.htm
Neal HughesNeal HughesHall of Famer
Poor Young Bill, getting propositioned as a youth by an old fat man. We must wonder what would have happened had it been a young nice looking trim lad?
Why we might have Mr. Bill's chain of upscale gay bars all over the Western World today! He could have been a contender! A contender! Hanging out in Tangier with Tennessee Williams and Gore Vidal, rubbing elbows with Evelyn Waugh and Christopher Isherwood . . . but no, it had to be a fat old man!
Drat you fickle finger of fate! He might have even made the big time and become an attachment of the Lord Louis Mountbatten! The possibilities are endless.
logicallogicalHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Logical,

You tell us, "I love that point of view. It is so absolutely fake. It basically says that the heart does not matter only the act does. IOW if a homosexual acts like a heterosexual then everything is fine. A person living such a lie can certainly make people such as yourself and Bill Gray happy, but I seriously doubt it makes God happy. God knows far more about homosexuality than anyone here. He knows and understands. I simply do not believe that He considers it an abomination. That is something that men came up with, not God."

In an earlier post, I gave what I believe the Bible says about homosexuality; supported by Scripture passages.

You may be right. So, please tell us your interpretation of what the Bible says about homosexuality; God's views on homosexuality; and support it with the Scripture passages or verses of your choice.

I am truly interested in getting your input on this and being able to calmly and civilly discuss the issue with you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


You reply that "You may be right" knowing that you absolutely do not believe that. Why do such a thing? I would call that deceitful.

Shall we have a battle of scripture passages? I think not. Too many people these days use the Bible as a weapon to club others over the head. As I said earlier, I believe that God does not view homosexuality as an abomination. I don't even believe He considers it a sin. Why? It has nothing to do with what the Bible says but with how God's creation actually works.

Homosexuality is merely an artifact of life. I believe God understands this. I do not believe that God, the epitome of selfless love, would condemn His children for merely being what they were created as.

A particular example of this would be people with Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS). A genetic problem which makes the body's cells unable to respond to androgens (male hormones). A child with this condition is genetically male and has testicles (undescended), but is in all outward appearances a normal female. Are they male or female according to the Bible? Are they an abomination to God if they love a man? a woman?

And there are many other conditions like this. God understands and loves them all while men may not.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Let me ask you -

Do you eat shrimp or lobster?
Do you shave your sidburns or trim your beard?
Do you support the slave trade?
Do you wear clothing of two or more fibers?
Do you preach against men having sex with their wives during "that time of the month"?
Do you support death to any who curse their parents?
Do you buy from farms that plant two crops in the same field?


TSC,

Have you noticed that fundamentalists seem to not hear you when they are asked a difficult question?


Really, you can ask it over and over and over again but they just pretend they didn't hear it.
Why do you think that is?
thehippiegirl is gone.thehippiegirl is gone.Post Master
God knows far more about homosexuality than anyone here. He knows and understands. I simply do not believe that He considers it an abomination. That is something that men came up with, not God. [quote]

apparently, you believe that the Bible is not the Word of God, or you would believe the admonishment on such a lifestyle. in that respect, this will be a moot point. but i post it for others, who might be searching for Truth.

Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wasn't it Jesus who warned against judging others? [quote]

absolutely. He gives us His Word, the Bible, so we can see what He says about various sins. that is His judgement, not ours. personally, it only matters to me if it matters to Christ. and He calls us to stand against sin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once again the seven deadly sins are:
1.Lust
2.Gluttony
3.Greed
4.Sloth (laziness)
5.Wrath
6.Envy
7.Pride (self righteousness would be an example of pride)
Please note the next time anyone sees Bill (or anyone else) start a thread about laziness, greed, envy, PRIDE (my favorite),wrath (anger) or gluttony. I am dying to see the same fascination manifest itself with the other sins listed above, which are so prevalent, and visible to us every day.[quote]

mean, on page 1 of this posting, i answered a question about gluttony as sin. if anyone wants to start a thread on other sins, i'm sure some of us would be willing to share what the Bible says about them.
BraylanBraylanHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by meanasasnake:
Pride is a sin!!

There is one sin that has ****ed more souls than any other—the SIN OF PRIDE. As I search the Word of God, I find that God hates the SIN OF PRIDE seemingly more than any other sins. Truly he hates all sin, and will punish all sin; for God cannot condone anything contrary to His holy nature. But His hatred seems to go out more forcibly against this sin of pride, for it robs Him of His glory; and through His rebellious, sinful creatures it even tries to take Him off His throne.

The fact that pride is universal is undeniable. Haughtiness, arrogance, conceit, inordinate self-esteem, vanity, and vainglory are as common as the air we breathe. You and I both know that this is true. Ours is a proud, defiant age! Yes, internationally, nationally, socially, and personally. The sin of pride is responsible for so much of the confusion, sorrow, heartache, and tragedy in our world today. Yes, pride in its various guises is an evidence that we are living in the last days, as we are told in II Tim. 3:2,4: “Men shall be lovers of their own selves...boasters, proud...heady, highminded.” So I believe this is a timely message, warning men of the sin of pride, of God’s hatred for it and His judgment against it.

Pride heads the list of the seven deadly sins held to be fatal to spiritual progress, which are: Pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and slothfulness. The Scriptures also give pride the place of preeminence in these verses found in Proverbs 6:16-19: “These six things doth the LORD hate; yea, seven are an abomination unto him: a proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Anyone find themselves in this?

http://www.eternallifeministries.org/lrs_pride.htm


Mean, Are you wanting another Christian to say that you are wrong in your asumption that the sins you are talking about are wrong? You should not find a Christian argue against you. If God says it is wrong then it is wrong! That is the point all Christians should agree with. Bill explained it very well on how the New Covenant and the Old Covenant coincide together. He explained clearly how some old laws are held up by the New and how some of the old are done away with by the new.

If any person views homosexuality as ok, you must ask yourself Do you really, truly see Jesus as a homosexual? Would you watch him perform this act with another man and then follow him while he proclaimed he was the Messiah? Would you watch him Kiss and hold hands with another man and all the while follow him while he claimed he was the messiah?

Incert all the other deadly sins in the place of the question here and then ask yourself would you follow him if he performed all these sins and the whole time claimed he was the messiah? What makes the sin a Sin? If God said so, if Jesus said so, if Jesus did it or did not do it! This is what makes it out to be a sin. Not man, man has no say so in the matter. Man doesn't even know the number of the stars in the sky, The Bible is what we are to follow, the New Testament speaks against homosexuality so it should be upheld in the Church!

Good day.
Monet1Monet1Hall of Famer
quote:
I posted this in the discussion in Feedback, Bill. I'll post it here, too. Maybe you can give me an answer to my question.


. . . . . . . . . . . . .
The Ten Commandments,& the first 5 books of the Bible were given to Moses by God on the mountain, which includes Leviticus. God gave us these laws not to condemn us, but to show us that we all break them everyday. None of us are perfect. Only God is perfect..and none of us are capable of being perfect. We have all broken the 10 Commandments at one time or another. There are no Big and Little sins...Sin is sin...God's purpose in giving us those rules
was to show us that we all need a savior..we are unable to save ourselves. They should have pointed us to Jesus Christ, the only perfect person capable of being a spotless sacrifice for us. But instead religious leaders of the time became more interested in forcing legalism than love for God. The first and most important law is to love God with all our hearts. If we could only keep that one...we wouldn't have to worry about the rules. Not long ago, I went back and studied Leviticus with a different attitude and perspective. I learned that some of the rules there were to protect our "bodies", such as only eating fish with scales. Other fish are scavengers and eat things that are unhealthy for our bodies. Will we go to hell for eating catfish?...no. But if we read the instructions and follow them, we will have a healthier body and life.Lower cholesterol, etc.Eating pork raises the cholesterol.
The only thing we have to do to prevent hell is to put our trust in Jesus as the only person who never sinned and gave his life as a sacrifice for us. That's it! It doesn't matter what sins you have committed, it's a free gift.
Once you accept that and Him..repent and turn your life over to him, he will handle the rest.
It's not that complicated.
logicallogicalHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by tnt5862:
Bill , I think its funny that the ones that accept it have gay family. Wink I know they love them ,just as Jesus loves them ,but why twist the Bible around to defend them in their sex lives is beyond me . The younger folks are turning this nation into a mess and want us older folks to think its ok ,,it dont matter what the Bible says . Roll Eyes


Yeah, weird thing that. Actually knowing people and caring about them has an effect on prejudice. Who would have figured?

Isn't it interesting that people like yourself, who dislike homosexuals, who always focus on sexual activities. People who don't have a problem with homosexuals are generally them ones who focus on their worth as people.

Sex is a private thing. I do not concern myself with the consensual sexual activities of anyone regardless of sexual orientation.
Neal HughesNeal HughesHall of Famer
Ranting about the gays is about as senseless as ranting against rain. Bill can't stop the sexual orientation of his precious little white grandkiddies by putting them in a soi disant "Christian school." Why, that old heathen homosexualist Gore Vidal came out of St. Paul's in D.C., run by the Cathedral there, a hop skip and a jump from the Capitol! Wasn't the last big gay scandal rocking the Fundamentalist World in Colorado and involved a male prostitute and methamphetamine, a hotel room and a megapreacher? Doesn't the pink-wigged woman on the tee vee have a gay husband who had to pay off his former "chauffeur" to the tune of half a million dollars to keep his "name straight"? Wonder from where that money originated? I am just a-waiting for Porky Hagee to get caught in a sex sling with a rubber suit on and two marital aids crammed into his orifices, myself!
T S CT S COld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Let me ask you -

Do you eat shrimp or lobster?
Do you shave your sidburns or trim your beard?
Do you support the slave trade?
Do you wear clothing of two or more fibers?
Do you preach against men having sex with their wives during "that time of the month"?
Do you support death to any who curse their parents?
Do you buy from farms that plant two crops in the same field?


TSC,

Have you noticed that fundamentalists seem to not hear you when they are asked a difficult question?


Really, you can ask it over and over and over again but they just pretend they didn't hear it.
Why do you think that is?
I have been noticing it since I was a child in church, it almost turned me away from God. Luckily, I found a great church with a very dynamic speaker who taught us that there is more to the Word than the words.

Of course the fundies don't want to admit their own hypocrisy. That would mean that they would have to admit that they could be looking at the Bible in the wrong way, the same way the Pharisees did. But it is not my cross to bear to make them see the light. That is for them to find within themselves.

Also, your avatar is freaking awesome!
Monet1Monet1Hall of Famer
Those seven deadly sins are ...putting our
fleshly pleasures above all else; putting ourselves on the throne..Living right means
sacrifice, controlling ourselves, our bodies;
bringing our bodies and minds under submission.
Not many are that disciplined.
But giving Christ your life, control over your life..changes the mind, and gradually the other "deadly" sins begin to vanish. But just because you become a christian, doesn't mean everything bad in your life automatically goes away. It's still a process.
logicallogicalHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by thehippiegirl:
God knows far more about homosexuality than anyone here. He knows and understands. I simply do not believe that He considers it an abomination. That is something that men came up with, not God. [quote]

apparently, you believe that the Bible is not the Word of God, or you would believe the admonishment on such a lifestyle. in that respect, this will be a moot point. but i post it for others, who might be searching for Truth.
Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


The Bible is a work of men and as such is subject to all of the failings of man. Creation is the work of God. When the Bible conflicts with creation, creation wins. I love God, not the Bible. The Bible is merely a guide. I think many people focus solely on the book and God gets pushed off in the background. If there were no Bible God would still be here.


quote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wasn't it Jesus who warned against judging others? [quote]

absolutely. He gives us His Word, the Bible, so we can see what He says about various sins. that is His judgement, not ours. personally, it only matters to me if it matters to Christ. and He calls us to stand against sin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Christ did not give the Bible, men did. Men decided what works would constitute it and what would not. What Christ gave was simply love. The only Bible that Christ knew is what we now call the Old testament.

quote:



Once again the seven deadly sins are:
1.Lust
2.Gluttony
3.Greed
4.Sloth (laziness)
5.Wrath
6.Envy
7.Pride (self righteousness would be an example of pride)
Please note the next time anyone sees Bill (or anyone else) start a thread about laziness, greed, envy, PRIDE (my favorite),wrath (anger) or gluttony. I am dying to see the same fascination manifest itself with the other sins listed above, which are so prevalent, and visible to us every day.[quote]

mean, on page 1 of this posting, i answered a question about gluttony as sin. if anyone wants to start a thread on other sins, i'm sure some of us would be willing to share what the Bible says about them.
RollTide2RollTide2Everybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by logical:
quote:
Originally posted by thehippiegirl:
God knows far more about homosexuality than anyone here. He knows and understands. I simply do not believe that He considers it an abomination. That is something that men came up with, not God. [quote]

apparently, you believe that the Bible is not the Word of God, or you would believe the admonishment on such a lifestyle. in that respect, this will be a moot point. but i post it for others, who might be searching for Truth.
Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination."

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
"Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


The Bible is a work of men and as such is subject to all of the failings of man. Creation is the work of God. When the Bible conflicts with creation, creation wins. I love God, not the Bible. The Bible is merely a guide. I think many people focus solely on the book and God gets pushed off in the background. If there were no Bible God would still be here.


quote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wasn't it Jesus who warned against judging others? [quote]

absolutely. He gives us His Word, the Bible, so we can see what He says about various sins. that is His judgement, not ours. personally, it only matters to me if it matters to Christ. and He calls us to stand against sin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Christ did not give the Bible, men did. Men decided what works would constitute it and what would not. What Christ gave was simply love. The only Bible that Christ knew is what we now call the Old testament.

quote:



Once again the seven deadly sins are:
1.Lust
2.Gluttony
3.Greed
4.Sloth (laziness)
5.Wrath
6.Envy
7.Pride (self righteousness would be an example of pride)
Please note the next time anyone sees Bill (or anyone else) start a thread about laziness, greed, envy, PRIDE (my favorite),wrath (anger) or gluttony. I am dying to see the same fascination manifest itself with the other sins listed above, which are so prevalent, and visible to us every day.[quote]

mean, on page 1 of this posting, i answered a question about gluttony as sin. if anyone wants to start a thread on other sins, i'm sure some of us would be willing to share what the Bible says about them.


ALL scripture was inspired by God. Men wrote it under guidance from the Holy Spirit.
logicallogicalHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
If any person views homosexuality as ok, you must ask yourself Do you really, truly see Jesus as a homosexual? Would you watch him perform this act with another man and then follow him while he proclaimed he was the Messiah? Would you watch him Kiss and hold hands with another man and all the while follow him while he claimed he was the messiah?
Good day.


I spent some time in the middle east. It was very common to see men walking down the street arm in arm. It was not uncommon to see men kiss either.

Neither of those things had anything to do with homosexuality although most people in this country would assume that it did. Ignorance and assumptions are dangerous things.

Those things are simply long-standing cultural items. It probably likely that they were around during the time of Christ as well.
logicallogicalHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by RollTide2:
ALL scripture was inspired by God. Men wrote it under guidance from the Holy Spirit.


And yet those who wrote it were still imperfect men, however inspired. And it was men who declared which scriptures to be the word of God and which were merely writings.

I do not malign the Bible in any way. I merely believe that no work of man is perfect.

So what do you say about the people I mentioned earlier (e.g., CAIS). Are they sinful according to the Bible. How do they fit into your neat little package of sin and righteousness?
E eHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by GoFish:
quote:
Bill , I think its funny that the ones that accept it have gay family.


For the record, I have no gay friend or family members. This is the result of my 40-plus years of shunning them as if they had a disease that could be passed on to others.

That was stupid of me.


Are you sure about that, GoFish?

You might wish to amend that statement to say "For the record, I am not aware if any of my friends or family members are gay; if any are, they have not told me."

Your explanation of why that could be makes sense, for it might explain why one would not previously have spoken to you of his or her orientation.

I commend you not only for acknowledging your previous bigotry, but also - and even moreso - for having addressed that within yourself and correcting such. You righted a wrong, so to speak, and you apparently did so for good, moral reasons. Nice.

That said, I might also question your original assertion because you've no doubt made new friends since you've come around. Haven't you?

All my best to you,
e
Last edited by e
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Re the title of this thread--What does the bible have to say about electricity?

How about cosmology? Or germs. Or tectonic plates?

It's a fairy tale, people.

DF
Hi Deep,

Let me give you a big "Atta boy!' -- for when, which is often, you cannot think of something intelligent to contribute -- you pick yourself up and just say whatever cutesy, nonsensical statement that pops into your mind. This one is a keeper. Keep up the good work.

It must be that commuting from Glendale to Hollywood that does this to you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Neal HughesNeal HughesHall of Famer
Bill has been so unnaturally (for him) quiet of late. Has he been busy undergoing a crisis formed by rising memories of his near-ravishing at the hands of that poor bear who was just trying to find a cub of his own to love? Maybe it is memories of Old Sarge, strapping and rippling man flesh and bad ink and stories of exotic bases like Omaha NE and Minot ND . . . you know, my poor friend Miss Gary does want details of each encounter of the love that was not to be, as well as graphic descriptions of the barracks showers. Poor Miss Gary, they would not let him into even the Texas Air Guard -- even with Viet Nam raging; alas, they said he was too. Oh, how Miss Gary tried! He even asked if there were an enlistment couch and they only had to pay him a small token, as he would work for food, comradeship, and barracks and shower hijinks.
T tnt5862Post Master
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
In my experience I've witnessed two types of homophobes. The first are the macho men afraid that homosexuality is catching. The second are those that are closet homosexuals.

I wonder which type Bill is.


You havnt witnessed much have you ? Roll Eyes
Bill is a man of God , a man that believes a man dont lay down and have sex with another man !!! Razzer
CrustyMacCrustyMacOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by tnt5862:
quote:
Originally posted by CrustyMac:
In my experience I've witnessed two types of homophobes. The first are the macho men afraid that homosexuality is catching. The second are those that are closet homosexuals.

I wonder which type Bill is.


You havnt witnessed much have you ? Roll Eyes
Bill is a man of God , a man that believes a man dont lay down and have sex with another man !!! Razzer


That's what he says. Bill says a lot of things that cause me to wonder.

You are right though, I don't have much use for homophobes or for that matter hypocrits of any kind.
Neal HughesNeal HughesHall of Famer
Thank you Lord for the "out," as my heterosexually-challenged friends who wish to continue with their "unnatural" "lifestyles" now need only ensure that any sex acts between them are done not lying. We can assume for the literalists out there in Fundamentalistlandia that squatting, crouching, kneeling, or any combination of those along with standing are perfectly acceptable.

May I once again submit to you that by definition, if something does not require kindling fire, using a lever, or a course, it is for most part unlikely to be "unnatural."

I honestly doubt that many men having sex with another man are thinking of women at all, so is there a double escape clause from eternal perdition for adults manipulating Slots A,B, or C with Tab D by choice?

What is the "homosexual lifestyle" exactly? Does it involve special food in any way? Are there any initiation rituals? Do you get a badge or membership card?

My dear friend, Miss Gary, wishes to know why he got no decoder ring or even a paper certificate, and all those years he spent in San Francisco . . . working his knees to the bones, growing that handlebar moustache and developing a taste for disco dancing. What a sham! No decoder ring, and he is not happy about it at all! He is ready to turn in all the Cher and Donna Summer 8 tracks he has collected over the years and just send them down to the local Christian school for musical appreciation class -- now that is angry!
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Mr. Bill,

My most flippant remarks are much more profound and closer to the truth than any voluminous screed you can produce.

What, exactly, DOES the bible have to say about electricity?

DF
Hi Deep,

Are you going to throw a tantrum if I don't play your childish game?

When you have a serious question about the Bible; please feel free to ask. But, please, no more childish "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" games.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Monet1Monet1Hall of Famer
Neal.......

You know, since I first visited this forum..with no thoughts of homosexuals even remotely in my mind...all I have seen is the homosexuals flaunting their "sexuality" in everyones face, pretty much saying, 'you have to accept me or your are mean'...Now, if they had never mentioned their 'lifestyle' how could anyone have criticized them? I did not come on saying, 'Hey, you guys, I am hetero, and you better like it or you are a heterophob!!!
And, btw, where does the "phob" come from? What is there to be afraid of?? I think everyone should keep their sexuality in the closet. Our sex lives should be personal, not on public display. If the homosexuals weren't in everyone's face maybe people would be less vocal about it.
Neal HughesNeal HughesHall of Famer
Precisely what is in your face, dear Marionette? I see very few of the local heterosexually challenged community of whom I am aware, anyhow, obsessed with sex. It is selfrighteous self-anointed prophets and agents of Gawd who are the obsessed.

Those who do not call out the bigots are just as guilty as those who do the gay bashing as your silence as enabling only feeds the flames of oppression.

To the dust heap of history with your lot! You lost your culture war; now surrender without conditions or wage your guerrilla war, I care not a whit. The closed minded are with us always as are, evidently, the love that dares not speak its name.

Am I flippant? Yes, upon occasion, to mock the earnest selfrighteousness of doltish dullards who ignore the Enlightenment and would have you, my dear, sold for a few goats were they to actually follow what they preach -- ancient tribal taboos no better nor any worse than other premodern claptrap mechanisms of social control foisted upon men and women under the guise of "divine dictation."

Aren't you supposed to be doing some dust shaking hereabouts? I will denounce what is clear as the sky over K2 most days when I see it in my face, and that Dear Marionette, is hypocricy, and sheer lunacy masquerading as religiosity.

Well, I have decided what I want to do, and this is making fun of fundamentalists. It feels good. It is easier than yawning, actually, and more pleasure than a $50 sushi boat at Surin. So, read on O noble spirit, the spirit of Kant lies somewhere deep within you awaiting liberation!
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