What Is Prayer - And, To Whom Do We Pray?

Since we're on the subject of prayer I thought I'd add this little bible based copy and paste.

 

http://bible-truths.com/praying.htm

 

PRAYING BY GOD’S RULES
[God’s Prayer Rules are Simple but Not Easy]

Few subjects in the Bible are more mysterious or less understood than the subject of prayer. Few indeed know how to pray or what to pray about. And what is the proof of that statement? The proof is that most prayers are never answered. Hundreds of millions of people a day pray in vain. They get no answer to their prayers. Why is this? Is there an answer as to why most prayers go unanswered? Absolutely, there is. Will most people accept the only and true Scriptural teaching on this subject? I’m afraid most will not.

There are many cliches regarding prayer, and some are absolutely true. It is said that God has one of three answers for all prayers: "Yes, No, or Later." This is basically, albeit not totally true. This one might be closer to the truth: "Your way, My way, or No way."

There is an interesting essay on prayer in which it is stated: "I got nothing that I asked for, but everything that I could have ever hoped for." That may make for a nice sentiment, but few would ever believe such a thing deep in their heart. Most people do not believe that they got everything in life that they could have ever hoped for.

Christians and heathens alike, ignorantly and stupidly believe that they can change the mind of a Sovereign God Who always knows long in advance how He will fulfill His perfect plan and purpose under every and all circumstances. Many imagine that answered prayer is when God changes His mind with regards to the way things were going in your life. In other words: You change your ways to please God, and God will change His mind and begin blessing you. NOT TRUE. God never, ever changes His mind about anything.

This subject of unanswered prayer is so incredibly simple that a child can understand it; yet many learned theologians and clergymen have not even a clue as to the ultimate Scriptural statement regarding prayer. I will first give you the number one pre-requisite to having prayers answered, and then I will give you a most amazing second witness from a Scripture that is preserved in very few Bible translations.

THE GREATEST DRAMA OF THE AGES

If you like drama, then Matt. 26:36 is the place to find it. Few pay close attention to what is really going on in these few verses of Scripture. The humanity of Jesus is brought into direct conflict with the will of His God and Father. First I will jump ahead of our story slightly so that you understand the setting of this greatest of all prayers in the history of the universe. After praying for one hour Jesus returns a short way back to His Apostles and says:

"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matt. 26:41).

Was the "flesh" of Jesus any stronger than that of His apostles? No, it was the same flesh. Paul tells us that, "…there is ONE kind of flesh of men…" (I Cor. 15:39). Jesus was given this same "one kind" of flesh (John 1:14 & Rom. 1:3). And so the flesh of Jesus was just as "weak" as that of His Apostles. Jesus instructed His apostles to stay awake and pray with Him for one hour. None of them could do it. None of us could have done it. They just ate a meal and they were now sleepy (not only physically sleepy, but especially spiritually sleepy.) Now back to the beginning of this great drama:

"Then comes Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and says unto the disciples, Sit you here, while I go and pray yonder [over there.] And He took with Him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee [James and John] and began to be SORROWFUL, AND VERY HEAVY. Then said He unto them, My soul [His fleshly, conscious humanity, not His spirit] is EXCEEDING SORROWFUL, EVEN UNTO DEATH [spirit doesn’t die, it is our flesh that must die.] Tarry [stay] you here, and watch with Me.

And He went a little farther, and fell on His face, and prayed saying, O MY FATHER, IF IT BE POSSIBLE, LET THIS CUP [this cup of death—being beaten beyond recognition, being made sin offering, and crucified for the sins of humanity] pass from Me: NEVERTHELESS, NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILL" (Matt. 26:36-39).

"And there appeared an angel unto Him from heaven, strengthening Him. And being in an agony He prayed more earnestly: and His sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground" (Luke 22:43-44).

I doubt that any of us can ever fully appreciate what unfathomable human trauma and agony was taking place for those three hours in the garden that night two thousand years ago. The eternal destiny of the entire human race was at stake, and Jesus KNEW IT! And believe me, Jesus’ Father was agonizing right along with His Son:

"In all their afflictions, He [GOD] was afflicted… in His love and in His pity He redeemed them…" (Isa. 63:9).

"Though He were a Son, yet learned He obedience by the things which He SUFFERED" (Heb. 5:8).

And oh how Christ was suffering that night in the garden! But right there in the garden is the answer to all prayer. "O MY FATHER… nevertheless, not as I will, BUT AS THOU WILL." Jesus not only prayed that way; Jesus thought that way:

"I can of Mine Own Self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not My Own will, but the WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HAS SENT ME" (John 5:30).

And again:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of HIM THAT SENT ME" (John 6:38).

Did Jesus pray as earnestly as it is possible to pray that God would "let this cup pass?" YES, He did.

Did God grant Jesus His desire to "let this cup pass?" NO, He didn’t.

But, did Jesus get His prayer answered? YES, He surely did. How so? Because Jesus’ greater desire was that His Father’s will be done, rather than "let this cup pass." This example from our Lord is the answer to answered prayer and it is also the answer to unanswered prayer.

If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don’t get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always. God’s will (that is His intention for the way He has preordained everything to go,) will always be done. No prayer has ever changed God’s plan or purpose in any way whatsoever. (Read my series on "free will.")

Now then, if it was God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, and God inspires you to pray for that favor, then it will surely be given to you. If on the other hand, if it was not God’s intention for you to be blessed by some particular favor, then no amount of praying will cause God to grant it to you. Either way, God’s will must be done, and if that is the greatest desire of your prayer for God’s will to be done in your life, then whether you receive some particular favor or you don’t receive it, nonetheless, YOUR PRAYER WILL BE ANSWERED.

I’m, personally, okay with that. Many of my readers may not be okay with that arrangement of things; but nevertheless, that is the way things are and that is the way things will always be—"THY will be done."

Hi GD,

 

Your man, L. Ray Smith, disciple of Herbert W. Armstrong, writes:

 

Few subjects in the Bible are more mysterious or less understood than the subject of prayer.  Few indeed know how to pray or what to pray about.  And what is the proof of that statement?  The proof is that most prayers are never answered.  Hundreds of millions of people a day pray in vain. They get no answer to their prayers.

 

Not true!  I have never had a prayer that was not answered.  I know no Christian believer whose prayers were not answered.   Whether L. Ray Smith/Herbert W. Armstrong, and you, want to believe it, and even though you mock it -- it is absolutely true:  God always answers prayers -- sometimes YES, sometimes NO, sometimes WAIT A WHILE.   But, no prayer of a believer goes unanswered.

 

The key is this:  Lord, Your will be done!   This is what Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane -- and, I never close a prayer without following His example.  It works!

 

So, you keep following Herbert W. Armstrong/L. Ray Smith -- and I will keep following God.   But, I promise you, God has already won the debate.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bill I have always pictured you as being. Herbert W.

Who cares how anyone else prays?  It is personal and if it is made into a spectacle it is a performance and not a prayer.  Really...if you have a personal relationship with God, why not just have a conversation between you two?  Whose business is it what you say or how you say it?

 

And pray is used in modern English as well, and no one owns how the word in used to set rules of usage according to one group or another.  Geez.  Why write all that about simply talking to someone who is supposedly a close friend?  And why feel the need to set out rules for other people's private conversations?  

 

And quoting scripture doesn't answer the question.  If I want to talk to someone I just talk to him or her, and if I wanted to pray I sure wouldn't be asking anyone for a set of rules.  And you are on ignore, Bill, so i won't get replies from you and no need to write a book for me.  If you want to pray, go for it.  If I want to a different way, cool beans.  If I don't want to and I like to use the word pray in my everyday speech that is correct and fine as well.  To each his own. 

.

You're right frog, it isn't a complicated thing but it's a personal thing to

keep to yourself.

I've had plenty of unanswered prayers.

Hi VP,

 

Why do you consider them unanswered?  Was it because you did not, right away, get what you sought in prayer -- or because it took too long?  Since God's answers may be: Yes, No, or Wait a while longer -- how do you know your prayers were not answered?

 

Could it be because you were praying to a dead human and not directly to God?

 

God does not always give us what we ask for -- since He knows better what we need.   An example:  Some 20+ years ago, my mom and step-dad were driving from Alabama to a meeting in Dayton, Ohio.  On the way their plans were to stop at my cousin's home in Indianapolis overnight, and then drive the next day to Dayton.

 

I prayed for God to give them safe travel, prevent any car problems, and bring them home safely.  In the morning they left Indianapolis driving toward Dayton.  And one hour out, their car broke down and had to be towed back to Indianapolis.  They stayed another day, had the car fixed, and then went on the following day to Dayton.  A week later, they come safely home to Sheffield.

 

I was upset at God.  Lord, I prayed for them to have no car problems -- and look what happened.

 

God put on my heart my real prayer.  He told me, "No, you prayed for Me to bring them home safely.  And, I did!"  You see, God knew that my highest priority was not that they not be inconvenienced by car problems -- but, that He bring them home safely.

 

So, you see, God did answer my prayer -- but, not the way I had prayed it.  He answered it in the way He knew was best.  How do I know that if their car had not broken down what might have happened?  Maybe a few more miles down the road they might have been involved in a bad accident?  I do not know -- but God knows.  And, he answers prayers in the way that is best for us.

 

One more thought, VP.  Possibly you do not recognize when prayers are answered -- because you are not praying specifically.  When you pray in generalities, or pray a canned prayer, i.e., "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen"

 

What, specifically, are you praying for in that prayer -- which comprises about 90% of your rosary prayers?

 

Praying in such generalities -- it is no surprise that you never notice a prayer being answered.

 

Let me give you another example:  About 18 years ago, I had been unemployed for a year.  My mom did not know this, for she had health problems and I did not want to stress her with my problems.   So, she had no idea I was unemployed and in a bad way financially.

 

On the last day of the month, rent of $750 was due the next day and I had $5, with no idea where to get the rest.  At 3:00 PM California time, I went into my bedroom, lay on my bed -- and prayed a very specific prayer.  I asked God to give me some way to pay my rent.

 

The next morning, my mom called me.   She told me, "Yesterday, I was taking a bath and I felt a strong need to send you money.  I had your brother wire you $1000 this morning."  

 

I asked her, "Mom, what time were you taking a bath?"   And, she told me, "About 5:00 PM."

 

5:00 PM Alabama time is 3:00 PM California time -- the exact time I prayed.

 

Not only did God provide the $750 I needed for rent; but, He provided an extra $250 for other needs such as utilities and food.  Yes, I prayed a prayer of thanksgiving to God for answering my prayer and providing my needs.

 

VP, possibly if you stop praying canned or pre-written prayers -- and start talking to God like what He is -- your very Best Friend; very likely you, too, will experience answered prayers that you can recognize.  Then, you, too, can thank Him for answered prayers.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

I have no words that would convey the disgust that I have been filled with upon reading this. You are telling me I pray wrong. Wow. You know no bounds and have no shame. I'm truly speechless.

Bill

We are told to pray without ceasing. We have several Godly women in our congregation that prayed for years for the salvation of their husbands. Now to my knowledge each one of these men were saved prior to their death but in every case it was years before those prayers were answered. Some things must be prayed over long periods of time or prayed multiple times before an answer is received. Jesus himself indicated that some things won't come quickly when he instructed his disciples that some things come only by prayer and fasting. So just because someone doesn't see an answer to his/her prayer doesn't necessarily mean the answer is no.

 

Also was another thread really needed?

i have prayers that are in the 'wait a while' category. actually i've been waiting for one specific prayer to come to fruition for almost 25 years. if someone asks me today if i have 'unanswered prayers', i would have to say no. God (who lives in the same eternal day He did when i first prayed this) is still working in the situation, yet not demanding compliance. does that mean God disregards my prayer and leaves it unanswered? absolutely not. but those people have free will, and i'm believing God will bring them to the end of themselves before it's all over with. at what point should i let my faith die in this matter? never.

to those weary in waiting, i would say hang in there and hold tightly to your faith. if it's been worth your time in praying for it, it will be worth the wait!! hg<><

Hi Red Baron and Hippie Girl,

 

It is true that we all have prayers sitting in the "Wait a while, My child" basket.   My wife and I have been praying for a specific blessing for a number of years.  When she asks when I think it will happen, my answer is always, "In His time.  For His timing is perfect!"

 

Thinking back on your Christian life, how many times have you been so sure that if a specific thing (a check arrive, a raise, or any other blessing) did not happen THIS WEEK, all would be lost?  I have had this happen many more times than I like to admit.  Yet, especially when it had to do with money, that catastrophe was never as severe as I had imagined -- and when the money did arrive -- it was at a perfect time when it did the most good.  God is awesome.

 

And, Baron, you mentioned wives praying for their husbands to be saved.  Why is it that it seems to always be the wives having to pray for the husbands to be saved?  But, it does seem that way.

 

Anyway, my wife prayed for me to be saved for ten years before the Holy Spirit took me by the shoulders and led me into the arms of Jesus Christ.  Many times over the years I have told her that her biggest mistake in those years -- was marrying me.  She was a believer; I was not.  Yet, praise God, He has taken a sow's ear and made a silk purse.  Only, He waited ten years to answer that prayer for Dory.

 

One last wee story.  Some years ago, I believe in Daily Guideposts, I read a true story of a young girl about ten years old who was bed-ridden with a terminal disease.  When she finally passed away, they found under her pillow a note card containing the names of ten prominent men in her town.  For the years she had been bed-ridden, she had been praying for those men to be saved.

 

By the time she passed away -- ALL TEN of those men had become Christian believers.  Do you suppose God had given her this one last task -- and when she had completed it, He brought her home?   I do.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

Hi Red Baron,

 

You ask me, "Also was another thread really needed?"

 

As Christian believers, our purpose for being on the Religion Forum should not be to argue with a few non-believers -- but, to share the Gospel in a manner which will reach the most readers.  In my mind, the subject of worship and prayer is too important to allow it to be buried at the bottom of another discussion where many may not venture.

 

A good example of those who read the Religion Forum, but do not post is seen in this recent Facebook exchange with a new Friend:

 

She wrote: 

 

I don't post on the TimesDaily Forums, but do read them from time to time.  My husband and I study Christian apologetics, so it always stands out when I read your posts because I know what you're saying.  Unfortunately, most who read them do not.  They tend to follow the first red herring or ad-hominem  (an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument) they can extract from the post.... March 26 at 6:09am

 

And, I ask her:

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!  For years I have been telling the few who throw rocks that I am writing, not particularly for them, but first for those who read but do not post.  Finally you have confirmed that is true.  I have always contended that, of the thousands who read the TimesDaily Forums, there are many who do just that, read but do not post.  But, it is too bad you do not post -- for I could most certainly use the reinforcements.  Do you mind if I delete your name and post this current exchange on the Religion Forum?  God bless, Bill

 

She responds, "Sure, if you think it will add fruit to the conversation."

 

So, Red Baron, when you ask why I began a second discussion on prayer and worship; that is my reason.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Do these silly day dreams you cough up excuse your filthy

bullying crudeness.

invicculaity, it seems Bill has reduced you to another deepfattuscoitus

-------------

Only in your day dreams.

Good to see your paying attention Mr. Gray and that you finally agree with Mr. Smith.

 

Quote from that same paper i linked about prayer.

 

 

Did Jesus pray as earnestly as it is possible to pray that God would "let this cup pass?" YES, He did.

Did God grant Jesus His desire to "let this cup pass?" NO, He didn’t.

But, did Jesus get His prayer answered? YES, He surely did. How so? Because Jesus’ greater desire was that His Father’s will be done, rather than "let this cup pass." This example from our Lord is the answer to answered prayer and it is also the answer to unanswered prayer.

If you always pray, "not as I will, but as THOU will," all of your prayers will be answered too. Whether you always get what you desire or you don’t get what you desire, if your greatest desire of all desires is for "THY WILL be done," then you can rest assured that from this day forward, all of your prayers will be answered always.

There is hope for you yet..........bro 

Hi GD,

 

If your mentor, L. Ray Smith/Herbert W. Armstrong happened to agree with me once, good on him.  As the old saying goes, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"   And, there is no one in Christian discussions who is more of a broken clock that old L. Ray Smith/Herbert W. Armstrong.

 

Thank you for letting me know.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Not yet a catholic. Interesting. :-)

Thank you dove for your kind comments. I have decided to refrain from engaging in any further discussion regarding my prayer life with anyone who has the audacity to suggest "I'm doing it wrong". Blind eyes will never see, and I am just going to retreat and pray that he will grow as a Christian in love and compassion. The first step being humility. Anyway I appreciate your kindness !!!

Bill,

 

In your opening post, you said THIS:

 

" We cannot worship God without praying to God. "

I have to wonder if you have really thought this through, Bill.  Prayer, for example, is one avenue of worship.  Another is PRAISE. Singing hymns of praise to God is worship, but it is not "prayer.".   

There are hymns that are indeed prayers to God; many of the Psalms fall into this category. But many hymns are purely hymns of praise to God or to Jesus Christ, and do not constitute  "prayers."  The classic, "Christ, We Do All Adore Thee"  is one example;there are many more.

The scriptures themselves recognize a difference between praying and singing:

"I Corinthians 14:¹⁵  What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

Both are done "with the spirit," both constitute worship; but they are not the same.  One can sing without praying.  The scriptures distinguish between the two. Thus your assertion that, " We cannot worship God without praying to God " seems not to be consistent with this scripture..

Consider this.  If your statement were  true,  then NOTHING could constitute worship unless it involved prayer. On its face, that seems to place a pretty extreme qualifier upon your concept of "worship."

Stop it Contendah, you'll confuse Bill even more than he already is.

___

Is that actually possible?

Hi Contendah,

 

Quite the contrary!  Once we become a Christian believer -- EVERYTHING we do should be seen as worshiping our Lord.  From our first waking thought to our last falling asleep thought -- should be spent in worship of the One who created us.

 

So, yes, prayer is an integral part of worship, singing is an integral part of worship, sharing the Gospel is an integral part of worship, playing with your children is an integral part of worship -- and loving your spouse is an integral part of worshiping the God who ordained marriage and family.

 

He is too big a God to be constrained to your narrow views.  My Friend, wake up and smell the roses -- the God given roses!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

___

You have truly lost it, Bill.  It is YOU who said, " We cannot worship God without praying to God. "

Now, in your post above, you list a number of things that are not prayer, but that you unambiguously--and correctly--identify as worship activities, thereby contradicting your initial proclamation.

I know your game, Bill.  You have recognized the silliness of your first statement and are attempting to rescue yourself from embarrassment by fervently agreeing with me.   Having performed that transparent maneuver, you then ludicrously accuse me of having "narrow views."  

Where is any integrity in all that? SHAME!

It really is possible to be wrong about something and then to honestly admit it, Bill.  Even YOU are capable of that.  Work on it. 

 

 

Hi Contendah,

 

Have you EVER worshiped God -- without a prayer being involved?  Even in singing, that, too, is a form of prayer.

 

Why do I say this?  Because prayer is merely me, as a Christian believer, talking with, having a conversation with -- MY VERY BEST FRIEND!

 

So, no contradictions -- except possibly in a very legalistic mind.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

 

oh oh yes it's the great contendah 1 bill 0

___

There is NOTHING "legalistic" in anything I posted here, Bill. I simply showed you, from the Bible and from simple logic,  that there can be other forms of worship besides prayer.  You are still dodging around the issue rather than admitting  your obvious error. You never addressed the point from scripture that I made although it is YOU who are so often insistent that scripture is the ultimate authority. The flabbiness of your performance on this topic is evident to anyone reading this string.

Contendah, my Friend,

 

It would not surprise me if even your dreams are legalistic!  Maybe you should pray about it -- even if you do not feel you are honoring and worshiping God while you do it.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

What a hateful thing to say to Contendah. First, you label him, then you mock and question his prayer life. Who do you think you are?? A few days ago you questioned whether or not I pray "right", and I told you it was uncalled for. Now, here you are trying to belittle contendah. Why don't you get off your high horse, recognize that we are NOT on this forum to "learn" from you. You are not the holy grail of how to be the perfect Christian. Your replies are callous and rude, and I'm sick of it. Get some humility and compassion before its too late.

Bill’s a goner anyhow. He lies about the POTUS saying he cannot speak without a teleprompter. That is an intentional lie and he will not recant, therefore, lying will send one to hell.

********

Did you miss this, Bill?, You have made no substantive response to it, so for your convenience I am re-posting it here:

 

<<<There is NOTHING "legalistic" in anything I posted on this matter, Bill. I simply showed you, from the Bible and from simple logic, that there can be other forms of worship besides prayer.  You are still dodging around the issue rather than admitting  your obvious error. You never addressed the point from scripture that I made although it is YOU who are so often insistent that scripture is the ultimate authority. The flabbiness of your performance on this topic is evident to anyone reading this string.>>>

 

But I must add this, in response to the glaringly wrongheaded and gratuitously insulting content of what you DID post above. You wrote,  "Maybe you should pray about it -- even if you do not feel you are honoring and worshiping God while you do it."

 

You know as well as I do, Bill, that there is nothing whatsoever in anything that I have posted here that in any way says, suggests, or implies that I consider prayer not to be a means of "honoring and worshipping God." For you to contend otherwise demonstrates either (1) your inability to understand the plain and simple  comments I made or (2) your desperate attempt to post something--anything--that you, in your childish, shallow, polemically-challenged incompetency, believe will rescue you from the hook you have witlessly suspended yourself from.

I am inclined to go with (2).

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------

Bill is just an ignorant wannabe who wants people to respect him and he doesn't know how to go about making it so... He stumbles around making all sorts of claims and, when called upon to support them, he hems and haws and squirms and usually gives up and starts a new thread to redirect attention... He's also a liar, a racist, a bigot and a political ideologue... He usually calls a perceived foe a "friend" before attempting to stab him in the back... It would be interesting to see a survey of how many readers he consider him a "friend."  But then he would just call out all of his other identities to testify that he loves himself...