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The statute of limitations has ended for blaming Bush. It's time for the golden child to take some responsibility. He hasn't done waht he said he'd do. Has the US ever REALLY pulled out of ANY country it's engaged in war? Japan? Still there. Germany? Still there. UK? Still there. Korea? Still there. Vietnam? Still there(I think).
What methods could be used to minimized American deaths "over there"? A sea of glass would work nicely. Issue an ultimatum giving "innocents" 2 weeks to jump ship, then, BOOM! Seriously, though, just bring our guys and gals home. Let the Muslim "extremists" take care of themselves and defend this country at all costs. That includes annihilating anyone who says differently. You don't like "Uhmedica"? Stay the heck out!
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
The statute of limitations has ended for blaming Bush.


Well, no actually it hasn't. Unlike things like the economy, unemployment, etc...Bush did what he did and his responsibility for that doesn't change.

And this comes from someone who supported the intial action in Afghanistan and with some uneasiness, Iraq.



quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
It's time for the golden child to take some responsibility. He hasn't done waht he said he'd do. Has the US ever REALLY pulled out of ANY country it's engaged in war? Japan? Still there. Germany? Still there. UK? Still there. Korea? Still there. Vietnam? Still there(I think).


This is true...where are the Cindy Sheehan's today?

Why are those who recently argued for "Constitutional" government, not upset about the continuation of unconstitutional wars?
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Look who will be moving in big-time:

http://www.time.com/time/world...id=newsletter-weekly

Everybody's favorite Shiite! Heah come de ayatollah! A big buddy of Iran powerfully poised to become a big player in the Iraqi government!

What have the neocons wrought?


Would you prefer Saddam still in charge? Only an idiot would not think Iran would try to move in. Who is the lame brain who keeps posting our date of withdrawal?

I thought the libs were against us talking charge. It was not a 'nation building or an occupation' remember?

What do you want bitter?
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Look who will be moving in big-time:

http://www.time.com/time/world...id=newsletter-weekly

Everybody's favorite Shiite! Heah come de ayatollah! A big buddy of Iran powerfully poised to become a big player in the Iraqi government!

What have the neocons wrought?


Would you prefer Saddam still in charge? Only an idiot would not think Iran would try to move in. Who is the lame brain who keeps posting our date of withdrawal?

I thought the libs were against us talking charge. It was not a 'nation building or an occupation' remember?

What do you want bitter?


In no way did I want this country to "take charge" in Iraq. We should have stayed out of there and I maintained that from the start. We got in because the neocon warmongers wanted us in there and now we have our butt in a crack and are having to decide how and when to leave, and there is no good answer to that one, thanks to the neocons and their puppet, G.W. Bush.

And, yes, I would prefer Saddam to still be in charge. Iraq is a torn-up nation with an occupying force in control. It will continue as a torn-up nation when we leave and the place is taken over by one or another faction of barbarians not likely to be any better than the Saddam Hussein regime, and maybe worse if Iranian influence grows large there, which it might well do.

Lives and treasure spent on this war were an unnecessary sacrifice, not worth it! History will prove this out.
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Look who will be moving in big-time:

http://www.time.com/time/world...id=newsletter-weekly

Everybody's favorite Shiite! Heah come de ayatollah! A big buddy of Iran powerfully poised to become a big player in the Iraqi government!

What have the neocons wrought?


Would you prefer Saddam still in charge? Only an idiot would not think Iran would try to move in. Who is the lame brain who keeps posting our date of withdrawal?

I thought the libs were against us talking charge. It was not a 'nation building or an occupation' remember?

What do you want bitter?


Actually YES, I would prefer for Saddam to be in charge and bottled up like he was.
The world was better off.
My personal problems with the Bush crime family and especially GHW does not deflect the fact that he (GHW) was right about Iraq becoming a power vacuum if Saddam were to be taken out.
W should have consulted his father on this matter. GHW may have been a sorry individual, but he was at least smart. The dumb one screwed up Iraq and may well have screwed up the world for some time to come.
There is NO statute of limitations on who to blame for this mess in Iraq and by extension Iran. Iran was trying to become allies with the US when W declared them in the "axis of evil".
Now look where all that has left us.

It may take another generation to straighten out what W messed up, if it ever does.
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
Look who will be moving in big-time:

http://www.time.com/time/world...id=newsletter-weekly

Everybody's favorite Shiite! Heah come de ayatollah! A big buddy of Iran powerfully poised to become a big player in the Iraqi government!

What have the neocons wrought?


Would you prefer Saddam still in charge? Only an idiot would not think Iran would try to move in. Who is the lame brain who keeps posting our date of withdrawal?

I thought the libs were against us talking charge. It was not a 'nation building or an occupation' remember?

What do you want bitter?


Actually YES, I would prefer for Saddam to be in charge and bottled up like he was.
The world was better off.
My personal problems with the Bush crime family and especially GHW does not deflect the fact that he (GHW) was right about Iraq becoming a power vacuum if Saddam were to be taken out.
W should have consulted his father on this matter. GHW may have been a sorry individual, but he was at least smart. The dumb one screwed up Iraq and may well have screwed up the world for some time to come.
There is NO statute of limitations on who to blame for this mess in Iraq and by extension Iran. Iran was trying to become allies with the US when W declared them in the "axis of evil".
Now look where all that has left us.

It may take another generation to straighten out what W messed up, if it ever does.


So, let's get this straight,You're not a fan of George W. Bush?
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
The statute of limitations has ended for blaming Bush.


Well, no actually it hasn't. Unlike things like the economy, unemployment, etc...Bush did what he did and his responsibility for that doesn't change.

I believe Obama said he would bring the troops home. Well, it's been 2 years. Guess what. I've got a buddy on his FOURTH tour in Iraq, the SECOND since the "Boy King" came into office. He just got put on hot stand-by regarding the Koreas.
GITMO? Still open.



Why are those who recently argued for "Constitutional" government, not upset about the continuation of unconstitutional wars?

UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!? Show me.
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
UNCONSTITUTIONAL?!? Show me.



Show me the declaration of war...without it...it's unconstitutional.

The power to declare war rests with congress...That is a power given to them by "We The People"...they do NOT have the power to relinquish or "pass along" that power.

For decades, congresses and presidents have violated and acted outside their constitutional limits in a myriad of ways...including war making powers.

If one is going to be consistent in demanding a constitutionally limited government...it has to be every issue, every time, no exception.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
We got in because the neocon warmongers wanted us in there and now we have our butt in a crack and are having to decide how and when to leave, and there is no good answer to that one, thanks to the neocons and their puppet, G.W. Bush.


Don't forget those "neocon warmongers" included
82 democrats in the house and 29 in the sentate.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
We got in because the neocon warmongers wanted us in there and now we have our butt in a crack and are having to decide how and when to leave, and there is no good answer to that one, thanks to the neocons and their puppet, G.W. Bush.


Don't forget those "neocon warmongers" included
82 democrats in the house and 29 in the sentate.


Yep, tell a big enough lie to enough people long enough and a lot will believe it.
Too bad enough people in Congress believed the lies.
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
We got in because the neocon warmongers wanted us in there and now we have our butt in a crack and are having to decide how and when to leave, and there is no good answer to that one, thanks to the neocons and their puppet, G.W. Bush.


Don't forget those "neocon warmongers" included
82 democrats in the house and 29 in the sentate.


Yep, tell a big enough lie to enough people long enough and a lot will believe it.
Too bad enough people in Congress believed the lies.



"The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy."---Bill Clinton 1998

The point being there have been plenty lies told by many people on both sides...plenty of blame to go around.
In the Fall of 2003, when the AFUS had taken the whole country cause Saddam had no military at all, we could have left. The threat was removed. There were no WMDs. Yet we stayed. And we remain entrenched there now, building permanent bases as this moment. As Wikileaks demonstrated, you cant trust a thing the fedgov says publicly.

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