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Where Does Jesus Stand On The Abortion Issue?

GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
because there is no way YOU can agree with a Christian. So be it.


Bill,

We already agree that abortion CAN be considered "murder." So you are, in fact, agreeing with an atheist.

the difference is that I have a rational, reasoned, scientific facts that I base my opinion upon. You are basing yours on the words of Jesus AND HE DIDN'T HAVE A DAMM THING TO SAY ABOUT ABORTION.

You are basing your whole anti-abortion stupidity upon a foundation that does not exist.

And, Bill, you still haven't answer my question that I've asked you over and over again: How many children have you adopted in support of your beliefs?
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1:
All I know is if somebody did something to my wife that caused this little guy to die, I would want them brought up on murder charges. That is all I'm going to say.


As would I, of course. I nor you need to justify that wrath to anyone.

But the question remains, should a woman do hard prison time if she were to find that her life were in danger and aborts at this stage of development?

The fundamentalists would have to say "yes" because, after all, "murder" is "murder" and this is clearly a baby. You and I know better and have REASONS for thinking that.
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Howard Roark:
If a woman has stuck it out for seven months without deciding, it's time to tough it out for two months and deliver the child. If, as I stated the mother's physical health or life is endangered, then a caesarean should be considered. There are creams and surgery to remove most of the incision scarring.


Your entire response is well reasoned. We are in 100% agreement. It is hard to explain but suffice it to say that I misinterpreted your prior response.

It should be noted, however, that late term abortions comprise a very small percentage of total abortions and, of those, the vast majority are due to health-of-mom issues.
D DeepFatOld Faithful
Jesus is Pro Family!

First, Jesus is dead, assuming he ever lived, which is becoming a rather large assumption. Have you seen Miami's videos?

Second, the story of Jesus contains, in Luke 14, these verses:

25 Now large crowds were going along with Him; and He turned and said to them,

26 If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

OK, it's not proof of anything except that Mr. Bill makes stuff up to suit his personal agenda.

If Jesus was Pro Family! why didn't he get married and have children?

In much more relevant news, the American League won the All Star game again, but it took 15 innings.

DF
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
I never understood why Christians got so upset about that book/movie. How is Jesus getting married and having children considered a sin?


I'm not sure I understand it either.

I believe the root cause is that it suggests something that is different from what they have been led to believe therefore it must be heresy.

My preacher did an entire sermon combating the falsities of the book and implored the congregation not to read. I'm sure there was a run on the book at Bookland that Sunday. This, of course, was one of the many times I had to hold on to the pew to keep from walking out and never coming back.

I kept thinking, "It's a freaking FICTION book! Of COURSE it's not true!"
M micah_freethinkerFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by muddytoes20:
I never understood why Christians got so upset about that book/movie. How is Jesus getting married and having children considered a sin?

My understanding is the Catholic Church was officially upset about the bad historical theology (incorrect) portrayed by the book and movie.

The a idea of Jesus getting married and having kids goes against the idea that Jesus is pure, especially sexually pure (celibate).

It would pain me to that me an my Brothers did an action for no reason. In that case, I too would be prone to lash out at those people who would suggest my idea is wrong. Frowner
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by micah_freethinker: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Bill Gray: This is simple to answer. If only you could read, you would have seen the answer in my opening post:

JESUS CHRIST IS PRO-LIFE!
JESUS CHRIST IS PRO-FAMILY!
JESUS CHRIST IS PRO-GOD!
quote:
Hi Bill,

You have made your point that abortion is against Jesus. I would also assume that some people here (such as Phoenix Rising) consider abortion is murder.

What should our government do to the mothers who have abortions?

Best,
Hi Micah,

You remind me of the Pharisees who were always trying to trap the people of the early church by their questions. They even tried it, to no avail, with Jesus.

But, to answer your question: What should our government do to the mothers who have abortions?

First, we should all pray for them. We should have more Pro-Life folks counseling them -- and keep them away from the Planned Parenthood and abortion doctors who are trying to pay for their yachts via abortions. And, we should encourage those who cannot, for whatever reason, keep their babies -- to put them up for adoption. New born infants, unlike older children, are easy to have adopted; many childless couples would give anything to have that baby.

I know that your question is like that of Fish, another who likes to practice Pharisee type questions, is trying to get someone to say that these ladies should be prosecuted. Well, for one thing, thanks to Roe v Wade and the Liberals such as yourself -- that could never be done; for abortion is not illegal. However, even when Roe v Wade is overturned; these women should not be treated as criminals -- but, led to the truth; that this is a human life they are considering killing -- and that there are safe, good alternatives to killing the baby -- certainly safer for the baby.

Abortion is murder; although legalized murder, for now. I will go even further and say that it has grown to the proportion to be called infanticide. But, the best approach is to guide the women -- not punish them. And, help them in finding good homes for the babies they cannot, or do not want to, keep.

One more thing which will help a great deal -- although it is more long term: Bring God back into our schools; teach positive moral values in our schools, yes, Christian moral values; and teach that abstinence is the better alternative to peer pressure.

Of course, it helps if we have do not have a president who spends his time in the Oval Office playing "cigar" games. Yeah, Billy Bob, I am talking about you and how you, all by your horny little self -- taught all the young children in grade schools all across America, all about oral sex. And, you also taught them to lie, with your inane excuse, "It all depends upon what IS is." Can you believe someone like this became president of America? And, now some folks want to put another Liberal into the Oval Office. I wonder what kind of games Obama would invent to while away his time?

Micah, you just keep worshiping in your atheist religion; and keep asking good questions -- for it gives me a chance to share the Christian view with all of our Forum Friends. Without folks like you -- I might have to go silent. But, praise the Lord, I know that folks like you, Deep, and Fish will always be around -- at least for a while -- to keep me active.

Oh, by the way, either you adopted a good Biblical name for posting (does this mean that you really are not all atheist?) -- or you had Godly parents who named you from the Bible, which is good -- maybe their influence will one day rub off on you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by muddytoes20:
Bill wrote:
quote:
Of course, it helps if we have do not have a president who spends his time in the Oval Office playing "cigar" games.


Uhhhh Bill,

George W Bush has been our Evangelical Christian President for eight years. How many times did he submit a bill to Congress to reverse Roe Vs Wade?

Muddy

Hi Muddy,

While I have no doubt that President Bush is a Christian; he is a member of a more liberal leaning church. I think he believes that abortion is wrong -- he did push for and get the ban on Partial Birth Abortion. Yet, he is a politician enmeshed in a world of compromise and politics. The fact that he does speak out against abortion and against Embryonic Stem Cell research bodes well for him in my mind.

Would I have liked to see him take a much stronger stand against abortion? Yes. However, abortion is not the only thing on his plate since 9-11.

But, George Bush at his worst -- is head and shoulders above Obama at his best.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
GuffawGuffawOld Faithful
quote:
Abortion is murder; although legalized murder, for now. I will go even further and say that it has grown to the proportion to be called infanticide. But, the best approach is to guide the women -- not punish them.


Then you agree, Bill, that women who commit murder by abortion are not quite as deserving of punishment as "real" murderers.

If so, then these women aren't really "murderers."

That is almost kinda sorta approaching rational, Bill. I'm proud of you.
CrustyMacCrustyMacOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:


Why not read the article for yourself to find the answer. You can find the link on my previous posts.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


"They don't know", would have been so much easier for you to type. I have to conclude that once again you are posting articles that are irrelevant to the discussion at hand or that you haven't read.

Also, you might want to know how easy it is for me to dismiss everything you are saying when you speak about yourself in third person.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Hi Crusty,

The original question from FirenzeVeritas was, "According to the CDC, there were less than 855K legal, induced abortions in the US in 2003, the last year for which statistics are available."

And, I responded by quoting the article, "The study, conducted by the Guttmacher Institute, which researches issues related to reproductive health and sexuality, found that in 2005, the U.S. abortion rate fell to 19.4 abortions per 1,000 women between the ages of 15 to 44, the lowest level since 1974. The total number of abortions also declined, to a total of 1.2 million in 2005, well below the all-time high of 1.6 million abortions in 1990."

She had information from the CDC; and I responded with information from the Guttmacher Institute report.

Somehow, you were looking for something different from what we were discussing, and asked, "So what does this article attribute as the cause of the reduction in abortions?"

And, I suggested that you click on the link in my previous post and read the article for yourself. I am truly sorry if that imposed too much of an effort on your part -- to actually read the article. Forgive me for overburdening you.

And, finally, you tell me, "Also, you might want to know how easy it is for me to dismiss everything you are saying when you speak about yourself in third person."

Okay, so you don't like my writing style. Maybe I don't like your brown shoes or your Miss Piggy tee shirt -- but, that's okay, we can still be Friends.

Or, is that complaint really a ruse -- just to cover up the fact that anything more than one paragraph taxes your ability to comprehend?

But, whatever, let's just agree to disagree -- and stay Friends. If that doesn't work -- I am sure the Ignore Button will help you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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M mhack69Member
I personally am torn on the abortion issue. I agree with others that have stated what if a woman was raped or was a victim of incest, etc. I do not believe in partial birth abortions. But regardless of who is right or wrong, we will not know till the end of time. Why should my opinion effect what someone else does with his or her body. If abortion was not legal, then many women would be finding ways to abort the fetus just like it was always done in the past and really endangering themselves. Women have been doing this for centuries, with herbs and other products.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Hi Mhack69,

You say, "I personally am torn on the abortion issue. I agree with others that have stated what if a woman was raped or was a victim of incest, etc."

When we add up the three main factors which possibly support abortion: rape, incest, mother's health -- this comes to about 3% or less of the total abortions in America each year. So, out of 1.3 million abortions -- that gives us 39,000 attributed to rape, incest, and mother's health. That leaves 1.26 MILLION babies killed for other reasons. What are those other reasons? The baby would be inconvenient right now; the baby would interfere with my education; the baby would interfere with my job; I am single and don't want to be burdened with a baby; and on and on, ad infinitum. In other words -- let's kill the babies because they are an inconvenience. Hey, keep you legs closed -- or protect yourself. But, don't be stupid and then kill the consequences.

In other words, we want to have recreational or casual sex without any protection -- but we do not want the responsibility for the consequences.

The man and woman had a choice. They chose to have unprotected sex. The baby has no voice in this; it is just the innocent victim.

No, my Friend, we might have an excuse for 39,000 -- but, the other 1.26 MILLION dead babies are without excuse.

Then you say, "I do not believe in partial birth abortions. But regardless of who is right or wrong, we will not know till the end of time. Why should my opinion effect what someone else does with his or her body."

Who is going to speak for those babies if you and I do not speak for them? You ask why your opinion should affect what someone else does with his or her body. We are not asking that you speak to what another adult does with her body; we are asking you to speak up about what those adults are doing to the bodies of innocent young babies; babies who cannot speak for themselves.

Do you think it is right to immerse a baby in burning, acid-like saline solution -- burning that baby to death? Do you think it is right that someone should inflict that much pain on a small baby? Have you ever accidentally burned yourself with an acid or hot grease? Maybe you spilled it on your hand or arm. It was really painful, wasn't it? How about if you were immersed in that acid? That is what they do with a baby when they perform a saline solution abortion. And, medical doctors and scientists have testified before Congress that the unborn baby is much more sensitive to pain that you and I are in our desensitized bodies. Their pain is excruciating. Who, if not you and me, will speak for those babies?

Finally, you say, "If abortion was not legal, then many women would be finding ways to abort the fetus just like it was always done in the past and really endangering themselves. Women have been doing this for centuries, with herbs and other products."

So, you are advocating looking the other way and allowing abortion to remain legal; allowing this mass infanticide of innocent babies to continue -- because some women would try to do the abortion and hurt themselves? Keep in mind that we are talking about 1.26 MILLION babies each and every year in America -- since 1973 -- almost 50 MILLION babies who have died by abortion.

And, this is okay -- because it keeps some adult women, women who are should know better, from hurting themselves in an attempted abortion? Why is no one showing this same level of concern for the innocent babies? The women do this to themselves; the babies do not.

Using this same logic; that abortion should be allowed to stay legal -- because some women might hurt themselves -- is like saying we should legalize drugs so that drug addicts will not harm themselves illegally shooting up. Or we should legalize robberies and burglaries -- because some people who want to rob other people might hurt themselves in an attempted robbery. Does this really make sense -- that we legalize everything just so some nut cases will not harm themselves doing it illegally?

No, my Friend, abortion is wrong; regardless of how we slice it. And, it is the 1.3 MILLION babies who suffer death from it every year in America -- about 42 MILLION worldwide -- each and every year. Who is going to speak for those babies, if not you and me?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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M micah_freethinkerFamiliar Face
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by micah_freethinker:
You have made your point that abortion is against Jesus. I would also assume that some people here (such as Phoenix Rising) consider abortion is murder.

What should our government do to the mothers who have abortions?
Hi Micah,

You remind me of the Pharisees who were always trying to trap the people of the early church by their questions. They even tried it, to no avail, with Jesus.

But, to answer your question: What should our government do to the mothers who have abortions?

First, we should all pray for them. We should have more Pro-Life folks counseling them -- and keep them away from the Planned Parenthood and abortion doctors who are trying to pay for their yachts via abortions. And, we should encourage those who cannot, for whatever reason, keep their babies -- to put them up for adoption. New born infants, unlike older children, are easy to have adopted; many childless couples would give anything to have that baby.


Actually, the adoption system in this country is completely screwed up. The time, effort, and money it takes to adopt an American child is great. This is the biggest reason Americans go to other places to adopt children. Our adoption system is so messed up that I can not in good conscience advocate someone to put their baby up for adoption.

I do support reform of our adoption system.

quote:
I know that your question is like that of Fish, another who likes to practice Pharisee type questions, is trying to get someone to say that these ladies should be prosecuted. Well, for one thing, thanks to Roe v Wade and the Liberals such as yourself -- that could never be done; for abortion is not illegal. However, even when Roe v Wade is overturned; these women should not be treated as criminals -- but, led to the truth; that this is a human life they are considering killing -- and that there are safe, good alternatives to killing the baby -- certainly safer for the baby.

Abortion is murder; although legalized murder, for now. I will go even further and say that it has grown to the proportion to be called infanticide. But, the best approach is to guide the women -- not punish them. And, help them in finding good homes for the babies they cannot, or do not want to, keep.

One more thing which will help a great deal -- although it is more long term: Bring God back into our schools; teach positive moral values in our schools, yes, Christian moral values; and teach that abstinence is the better alternative to peer pressure.

Whose god are we going to bring back to our schools?

I agree we should teach religion in our school. We should teach about Brahma, Allah, Yahweh, and all the gods. This way kids can learn about all of the religions. In Great Britain, kids have a religion class. Also in Great Britain, there are a low percentage of the population are members of the Anglican church--the official state church. Actually, there was an article that before two long that the churchgoing population would be very small portion of the population.

I am fine with teaching morals in school. Being religious doesn't make one moral. Being moral doesn't make one religious. The two are simply independent of one another.

Peer pressure works differently. The other kids who bullied me in gym class weren't bullying me about sex. They bullied me because they were mean.

quote:
Of course, it helps if we have do not have a president who spends his time in the Oval Office playing "cigar" games. Yeah, Billy Bob, I am talking about you and how you, all by your horny little self -- taught all the young children in grade schools all across America, all about oral sex. And, you also taught them to lie, with your inane excuse, "It all depends upon what IS is." Can you believe someone like this became president of America? And, now some folks want to put another Liberal into the Oval Office. I wonder what kind of games Obama would invent to while away his time?


America is all about oral sex. Darn, I missed that memo. I agree it is generally wrong to lie, and Bill Clinton did lie. Congress impeached him for it. Our current Commander in Chief and his office lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq and declared war on Iraq. Clinton lied the tabloids jumped for joy, Bush lied and people died.

quote:
Micah, you just keep worshiping in your atheist religion; and keep asking good questions -- for it gives me a chance to share the Christian view with all of our Forum Friends. Without folks like you -- I might have to go silent. But, praise the Lord, I know that folks like you, Deep, and Fish will always be around -- at least for a while -- to keep me active.


What exactly do atheists worship?

Bill, I doubt that you would be silent even if we weren't here.

quote:
Oh, by the way, either you adopted a good Biblical name for posting (does this mean that you really are not all atheist?) -- or you had Godly parents who named you from the Bible, which is good -- maybe their influence will one day rub off on you.


My name was given to me by my mother. She is not a person who proselytizes her beliefs.
Last edited by micah_freethinker
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1:
Bill I've said this before and you (like you always do) conveniently "missed" it.

Only about 5% of Americans are on welfare. Since that number is soooo small, should we just do away with welfare?

I'm just using your logic here: "Only a few people actually have a good excuse so they aren't really that important".

Hi Fine,

First of all, what is your question? Or are you just typing to take up space?

Second, you are always quoting facts and figures; but, you never tell us where you get those facts and figures -- possibly just off the top of your head? Facts mean nothing without support -- I guess you might say they need a fact bra.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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E EvilGeniusHall of Famer
I'm guessing in Jesus's day, women who were pregnant without a husband either had some herbal abortion or home remedy method and kept it secret, or if known to the community the Jewish leaders probably killed the mother along with the baby. Most "moral" problems were handled with death way before it got to the point of decideing what to do with the child to be I would imagine.

If the mother was real creative she could claim it was a divine conception, she was visited by an passionate angel in the night.

I would think Jesus would be very forgiving to the mother that lost the baby however. I doubt if they had the medical sophistication to debate the fine points of abortion and probably didn't have a word for it or blamed the mother for something they didnt know about.

Would be an interesting research topic. It's a good question.
F fineazell1Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1:
Bill I've said this before and you (like you always do) conveniently "missed" it.

Only about 5% of Americans are on welfare. Since that number is soooo small, should we just do away with welfare?

I'm just using your logic here: "Only a few people actually have a good excuse so they aren't really that important".

Hi Fine,

First of all, what is your question? Or are you just typing to take up space?

Second, you are always quoting facts and figures; but, you never tell us where you get those facts and figures -- possibly just off the top of your head? Facts mean nothing without support -- I guess you might say they need a fact bra.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Usually Bill, the question is the sentence that precedes the question mark. A question mark looks like this ------> ?

So in the post that you quoted the question would be as follows:

Only about 5% of Americans are on welfare. Since that number is soooo small, should we just do away with welfare?

Here is the original post that I was referring to.
http://forums.timesdaily.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3921027...071097927#4071097927

If you want the numbers, simply do a google searh for how many Americans are on welfare.

So now that I have explained to you what the question was, will you answer it?
CrustyMacCrustyMacOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi Crusty,

The original question from FirenzeVeritas was, "According to the CDC, there were less than 855K legal, induced abortions in the US in 2003, the last year for which statistics are available."

And, I responded by quoting the article, "The study, conducted by the Guttmacher Institute, which researches issues related to reproductive health and sexuality, found that in 2005, the U.S. abortion rate fell to 19.4 abortions per 1,000 women between the ages of 15 to 44, the lowest level since 1974. The total number of abortions also declined, to a total of 1.2 million in 2005, well below the all-time high of 1.6 million abortions in 1990."

She had information from the CDC; and I responded with information from the Guttmacher Institute report.

Somehow, you were looking for something different from what we were discussing, and asked, "So what does this article attribute as the cause of the reduction in abortions?"

And, I suggested that you click on the link in my previous post and read the article for yourself. I am truly sorry if that imposed too much of an effort on your part -- to actually read the article. Forgive me for overburdening you.

And then I did as you suggested, Bill and read the article. You could have simply said, as the article explained, that they didn't know why. Why something happens generally interests me, Bill as it does many others. I'm sorry you felt like I was butting into your conversation.

And, finally, you tell me, "Also, you might want to know how easy it is for me to dismiss everything you are saying when you speak about yourself in third person."


... is that complaint really a ruse -- just to cover up the fact that anything more than one paragraph taxes your ability to comprehend?

No, Bill, just the truth. Talking about oneself in the third person comes across as arrogant. At least that is what CrustyMac thinks. CrustyMac thinks that Bill Gray is trying to divert attention from the fact that articles he links to often are irrelevant to the point that Bill Gray is promoting. CrustyMac thinks that Bill Gray often links to articles that Bill Gray hasn't even read. CrustyMac hopes that Bill Gray gets the point. But CrustyMac believes that Bill Gray is so self-absorbed that Bill Gray will never understand any point of view but Bill Gray's, and that any honest query is just something that Bill Gray would prefer to avoid.

But, whatever, let's just agree to disagree -- and stay Friends. If that doesn't work -- I am sure the Ignore Button will help you.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Have a blissed day, Bill.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by fineazell1: Bill I've said this before and you (like you always do) conveniently "missed" it. Only about 5% of Americans are on welfare. Since that number is soooo small, should we just do away with welfare? I'm just using your logic here: "Only a few people actually have a good excuse so they aren't really that important".
Hi Fine,

First of all, what is your question? Or are you just typing to take up space?

Second, you are always quoting facts and figures; but, you never tell us where you get those facts and figures -- possibly just off the top of your head? Facts mean nothing without support -- I guess you might say they need a fact bra.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Usually Bill, the question is the sentence that precedes the question mark. A question mark looks like this ------> ?

So in the post that you quoted the question would be as follows:

Only about 5% of Americans are on welfare. Since that number is soooo small, should we just do away with welfare?

Here is the original post that I was referring to. http://forums.timesdaily.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3921027...071097927#4071097927

If you want the numbers, simply do a google search for how many Americans are on welfare. So now that I have explained to you what the question was, will you answer it?
Hi Fine,

What I was suggesting is that when you quote facts and figures -- you should give us the URL where you got that information. Otherwise, it looks like a number which just popped out of your head. Yet, all you give me is a URL back to your original post where you originally stated the 5% number. If you want to state facts with some credibility -- give us your source; not just another place where you have made the same unsupported claim before.

And, yes, we could all Google for information -- but, since you are the one who made the claim, we are presuming you got this information from some source (other than your head). So, when you post a fact, give us the source. That is all I am asking.

Now, to your real question: Are welfare and abortion the same? No, welfare, even if the number is only 5% -- mostly are folks who deserve help. Should we just build a welfare state such as the Democrats have done in the last seventy years? No. "Give a guy a fish today -- and tomorrow he will come back for two fish. Teach the guy to fish -- and he can support himself and his family. In that sense, I would like to see welfare eventually stopped -- once all who are legitimately receiving it can support themselves.

On the other hand, while welfare is helping folks live -- abortion is helping babies die! Welfare, to a degree, is good. Abortion is infanticide, it is killing babies by the millions. Abortion is not only bad; it is horrible.

For all the folks who are such strong supporters of abortion -- how would you feel if you were to be asked to stand and watch while an infant is dipped into a tub of acid? What! You would not want to watch? But, it is okay to do this -- as long as you can sit home comfortably and not have to watch? Right? Saline Solution Abortion, the most common form of abortion, is equivalent to dipping that baby into a vat of acid. Can your mind grasp the pain that small, innocent baby feels when that happens?

No, Fine, no one in their right mind can equate welfare and abortion.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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F fineazell1Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
On the other hand, while welfare is helping folks live -- abortion is helping babies die!


Bill you said yourself, among that "3%" are women who would otherwise die if they didn't have an abortion. So in that "3%" you are actually helping "folks" live. So abortion helps folks live and therefore should be an option to ALL women even if their reasons are wrong (according to you).
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