I am breaking my word. You do need orderly distribution techniques and personnel for crowd control. Close your eyes for a minute(if you cannot pay attention to those who are there) and imagine the chaos- with probably more loss of life- which would ensue! Adequate lawenforcement is a part of infrastructure.
quote:Originally posted by Ronnie P.:
It does seem like this is political to you people. I'm just asking where the water is? You don't need infrastructure to drop water from a plane.
When you just drop water and food, ciaos will happen. People will begin to attack each other to get the most items. You cant have a free for all.
Haiti is a logistics problem in good times. Now, its a nightmare.
There are only two paved airstrips in Haiti:
Cap Haitien Internaional which is 4900 feet long and
Port-Au-Prince Inteernational which is 9900 feet long.
The tower at Port-Au-Prince and its power were down for a day. These strips are very short and can only hold so many planes. Once the planes are on the ground, there is little handling equipment to unload the cargo. The strips are so short, the Air Force will be unable to use it's large C-5A planes and must use two smaller models. Parachuting in troops with limited supplies is not a good option. They could carry only a limited amount for others and must carry enough food and water for themselves until they are resupplied. Wouldn't make good copy for our troops to shoot survivors who overwhem them trying to get to the limited supplies. Same for parachuting in unsupervised supplies to a city. Many people would die trying to get the supplies. Probabaly, the gangs of young men armed with machetes or bolos would be the main recipients. And, aircraft are only a stop gap.
The aircraft carriers can supply food, water and medical help, when they get there. Tehy have several operating rooms per ship, plus bakeries and water distilling plants. Unfortunately, all this aid must be delivered by helicopter -- also a limited source. The Comfort hospital ship is being prepared and will dock in a few days. Again, most patients will be transported to the ship by helicopter or small boats.
With the cranes and docks destroyed, the best ships to use are the Army's roll-on, roll-off ships, which can carry much more cargo than our entire air fleet. Also, there are other ships which have cranes, but they will need docks. Lastly, loading these ships takes days. Same for unloading.
Once on site, aid stations must be set up to distribute food and water and handle casualties. Fuel must be provided for existing heavy machinery and vehicles, as well as, deployed equipment. Its not an easy task.
"Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics!"
There are only two paved airstrips in Haiti:
Cap Haitien Internaional which is 4900 feet long and
Port-Au-Prince Inteernational which is 9900 feet long.
The tower at Port-Au-Prince and its power were down for a day. These strips are very short and can only hold so many planes. Once the planes are on the ground, there is little handling equipment to unload the cargo. The strips are so short, the Air Force will be unable to use it's large C-5A planes and must use two smaller models. Parachuting in troops with limited supplies is not a good option. They could carry only a limited amount for others and must carry enough food and water for themselves until they are resupplied. Wouldn't make good copy for our troops to shoot survivors who overwhem them trying to get to the limited supplies. Same for parachuting in unsupervised supplies to a city. Many people would die trying to get the supplies. Probabaly, the gangs of young men armed with machetes or bolos would be the main recipients. And, aircraft are only a stop gap.
The aircraft carriers can supply food, water and medical help, when they get there. Tehy have several operating rooms per ship, plus bakeries and water distilling plants. Unfortunately, all this aid must be delivered by helicopter -- also a limited source. The Comfort hospital ship is being prepared and will dock in a few days. Again, most patients will be transported to the ship by helicopter or small boats.
With the cranes and docks destroyed, the best ships to use are the Army's roll-on, roll-off ships, which can carry much more cargo than our entire air fleet. Also, there are other ships which have cranes, but they will need docks. Lastly, loading these ships takes days. Same for unloading.
Once on site, aid stations must be set up to distribute food and water and handle casualties. Fuel must be provided for existing heavy machinery and vehicles, as well as, deployed equipment. Its not an easy task.
"Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics!"
bunch of ignorant comments by the one whose avatar resembles Saladin. One would wonder if there is some "Crusade" against our leadership.
Actually, that's one of the Danish cartoons the jehadim are so worked up about. Its Mohammed with a bomb turbin.
A most disheartening communique has just been read from the FAA about flights and inability to land.
We really do need to get stuff to them soon, before they all come over here.
If we're waiting for "infrastructure" they'll all be dead...quote:Originally posted by earthmomma:
Infrastrucure, Ronnie! The news reported last night that a truck with sandwiches and water was attempting to hand out food and the stronger men knocked the women down. Can you not imagine the scene when water dropped onto the streets with no order? We are still waiting for your detailed plan.
Are we waiting on FEMA? [snicker]
Once again...Amerika to the rescue!
Huh!
Huh!
quote:Originally posted by beyonce:
We really do need to get stuff to them soon, before they all come over here.
Yea, sure-- just like the Al Qaeda terrorists are going to invade our shores unless we take 'em on "over there."
Just how do you expect those Haitians to "come over here?" On inner tubes?
quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by beyonce:
We really do need to get stuff to them soon, before they all come over here.
Yea, sure-- just like the Al Qaeda terrorists are going to invade our shores unless we take 'em on "over there."
Just how do you expect those Haitians to "come over here?" On inner tubes?
Yes inner tubes. Do familiarize yourself with the situation. Not long ago they tried it in a car, yes a car cobbled up so it would float. These people are desperate and not exactly known for their brilliance.
I was taught that in emergency situations you utilize what you have around you and the most of...
I see a lot of strong bodies men and women standing around or sitting waiting and waiting and waiting...
These people can be organized in small groups to do task such as removing bodies, clearing the streets, building temporary shelters, first responder aid to some, taking care of the elderly who are bed ridden in nursing homes...
You say some things are too heavy to move...Well! How did the pyrimids get built or those massive buildings you still see standing in greece, rome and other areas of the world....? They simply used their heads and used fulcrum levers, fulcrum wheels, fulcrum physics to build levers that can move tons of concrete...
The people themselves should set up their own security for small groups...These people should armed themselves and protect that group from looters and gangs...
The supermarkets, small grocery stores, small food warehouses, eating places that once exist still have food and water buried underneath that rubble...it is just buried...so you put a team of men working on attacking the parts of the buildings where entry can be made into those piles of rubble to extract the goods as much as you can..
No nation has to wait on others to control their survival..Assist Yes...but survival depends on the inner strength of that particular nation..So! Far! that nation has not showed a inner strength in which I am sure it is capable of...
Their government failed because it was rotten to the core...and I am afraid that our own government is now taking on that same smell...
I see a lot of strong bodies men and women standing around or sitting waiting and waiting and waiting...
These people can be organized in small groups to do task such as removing bodies, clearing the streets, building temporary shelters, first responder aid to some, taking care of the elderly who are bed ridden in nursing homes...
You say some things are too heavy to move...Well! How did the pyrimids get built or those massive buildings you still see standing in greece, rome and other areas of the world....? They simply used their heads and used fulcrum levers, fulcrum wheels, fulcrum physics to build levers that can move tons of concrete...
The people themselves should set up their own security for small groups...These people should armed themselves and protect that group from looters and gangs...
The supermarkets, small grocery stores, small food warehouses, eating places that once exist still have food and water buried underneath that rubble...it is just buried...so you put a team of men working on attacking the parts of the buildings where entry can be made into those piles of rubble to extract the goods as much as you can..
No nation has to wait on others to control their survival..Assist Yes...but survival depends on the inner strength of that particular nation..So! Far! that nation has not showed a inner strength in which I am sure it is capable of...
Their government failed because it was rotten to the core...and I am afraid that our own government is now taking on that same smell...
quote:Originally posted by Ronnie P.:
Tell the Haitians it's fabricated. The post I linked says they have been 3 days without food or water. Haiti is 700 miles from here by unobstructed water.
You watch some of that video and tell me we are doing everything we can. We aren't,
at your 700 mile quote Haiti is still is too far for the average supply helicopter which typically has a 200-400 mile range.
Special forces has a CH-47 which can reach that far, and they were there soon after, as they are the ones who reopened the airport.
As far as ships that still can take a week or more to get that far. Lets use the USS Bataan as an example. Even if it left the night the earthquake happened it still will take several days to get there as it's top speed is 20 knots (or 23 miles per hour) That means its going to take 3-5 days to get there since it left from Virginia.
All of this takes planning. Part of the problem with Katrina was lack of plans. You just have to give it time.
Edit: and for what it's worth, Special forces took a airport that could only handle around 30-40 landings/take offs a day and expanded it to 1,000 a day in 3 days time. Quite a feat.
quote:Originally posted by WH:quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by beyonce:
We really do need to get stuff to them soon, before they all come over here.
Yea, sure-- just like the Al Qaeda terrorists are going to invade our shores unless we take 'em on "over there."
Just how do you expect those Haitians to "come over here?" On inner tubes?
Yes inner tubes. Do familiarize yourself with the situation. Not long ago they tried it in a car, yes a car cobbled up so it would float. These people are desperate and not exactly known for their brilliance.
Familiarize yourself with what you posted, specifically "before they all come over here." So, per your "reasoning" they could "all" come paddling over to our shores on floating cars and inner tubes? I would like to see THAT flotilla!
Get real.
Start watching. I'm sure they will be here soon enough, either by innertube or Obama.
quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by WH:quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by beyonce:
We really do need to get stuff to them soon, before they all come over here.
Yea, sure-- just like the Al Qaeda terrorists are going to invade our shores unless we take 'em on "over there."
Just how do you expect those Haitians to "come over here?" On inner tubes?
Yes inner tubes. Do familiarize yourself with the situation. Not long ago they tried it in a car, yes a car cobbled up so it would float. These people are desperate and not exactly known for their brilliance.
Familiarize yourself with what you posted, specifically "before they all come over here." So, per your "reasoning" they could "all" come paddling over to our shores on floating cars and inner tubes? I would like to see THAT flotilla!
Get real.
C&P my post where I stated... "before they all come over here."
You can't because I didn't say it, Beyonce did.
Please familiarized yourself with this thread so as to save making a fool of yourself again.
Yep...it was me.
Looks like betternu developed a case of lockjaw. 
I can't believe some people acting like Obama not getting supplies there fast enough.At least we are sending help & that is very nice of us.