Which Is The True Christian, The Conservative Or The Liberal?

Your statement shows me that you obviously did not read my original post in this discussion.  So, to answer your question, I will repost a portion of that original post -- which clearly answers the question your raise and responds to your statement:

First, let's get the easy one out of the way.  You ask, "And which is the true Christian?"  By this, it seems you are asking if I believe the liberal Christian is not a Christian.   The answer is no, that is not what I believe.  Any Christian believer, whether liberal, conservative, or in between -- who, by the grace of God, through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross -- has believed in Him and received His "paid in full" free gift of eternal life (Ephesians 2:8-9, John 1:12) is a true Christian and WILL spend eternity in the presence of God.

One difference being that the conservative Christian KNOWS that he/she HAS eternal life in Christ (John 6:47) and WILL spend eternity in the presence of God.  This is often called "eternal security" for we know that we have eternal life in Christ and will not lose it (John 10:28-29). 

Because we have this "eternal security" in Christ -- while we will have many trials and tribulations, many temptations in this world -- we are not worried for we know how our individual story ends, living happily ever after, eternally, in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.  We can endure the persecutions, the tribulations, the malice and slander -- because we know they all lead toward our blessed hope in Jesus Christ (Romans 5:3-5).

Many of our liberal Christian Friends do not have that sense of "eternal security" -- that sense of knowing that the world cannot snatch them out of the hands of God and His Son (John 10:28-29).  They tend to go through life always looking over their shoulder, always worried that they will lose their salvation if they spit on the street, or commit any other sin.  Many liberal Christians live more or less a "Social Theology" or a "Works Oriented Theology" way of life.

They feel that they have to work their way into heaven -- and since no one can tell us exactly how much work is required to attain entrance into heaven -- none of them KNOW if he/she has eternal life or not.  Our Roman Catholic Friends tell us that even the Pope, the leader of all Roman Catholics worldwide -- does not even know if he is saved or not.  That is sad.

Many tell us that a person cannot know until they die, if they are saved or not.  It must be really nerve racking to go through life never knowing where you will spend eternity.  And, what happens if a person who has done many good deeds all his/her life, dies -- and, then God tells him/her, "Wow!  You almost made it.  All you had to do was to perform just ten more acts of work -- and you would have been in heaven.  But, I am sorry, My Friend, you did not make it."   Can anyone really believe that God works that way?  He does not!

Al, my Friend, I pray this answers your question sufficiently.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Ok, makes sense.  Thanks Bill.  You are right., I did not read your original post.

Although I must admit, no one, no one at all, really can know if he or she will survive death.  We have to take it on faith, which is, after all, pretty cool.  Of course you may have also said this in your original post.

But Liberal, Conservitive, or whatever, these nominal differences have little or nothing to do with religion... which is a higher matter between the individual and God. (which, no doubt you said in your original post)

You tell me, "Although I must admit, no one, no one at all, really can know if he or she will survive death.  We have to take it on faith."

Faith in what or who?  If a person has faith in the world, the universe, or any other New Age aspect of life -- you are right that this person knows little.  

But, the person who has, by the grace of God, through FAITH in the finished work of Jesus Christ -- put that FAITH in Him -- then, that person should have enough FAITH to believe His promises.

When Jesus promises, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47) -- a person who truly has FAITH will believe His promise.  And, therefore, will KNOW that he/she HAS eternal life.

Simple, sweet, and so very true.  The true believer has true salvation.

Then, you tell me, "But Liberal, Conservative or whatever, these nominal differences have little or nothing to do with religion."

I am not discussing "religion" -- I am discussing Christianity, a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.  And, in that arena, the person being grounded in Liberal Theology versus Conservative Theology -- does not affect the person's salvation.  But, the belief system in which they worship God most certainly does affect their sense of eternal security.

We are told, "But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name"  (John 20:31).

And, we are assured, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the Gospel of your salvation -- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise"  (Ephesians 1:13),

Now, the difference between the Liberal and the Conservative is that we Conservatives KNOW that we have eternal life in Christ; so we are at peace with God (Romans 5:1).  That is "eternal security."

The Liberals and the Legalists all believe they can lose their salvation, even though they are told they are SEALED in Him.  So, they spend their lives always looking over their shoulders, afraid to spit -- for they are not sure just which sin will cause them to lose it all.  That is "eternal insecurity."

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Al, billie wants you to believe John chapter 6 is about OSAS, not true.

When Jesus promises, "He who believes HAS eternal life" (John 6:47) -- a person who truly has FAITH will believe His promise.  And, therefore, will KNOW that he/she HAS eternal life.

Jn 6: 47 isn't talking about free tickets, calvinism or faith alone.

 The Bible contradicts by faith alone. The only place in the entire Bible

 where the phrase "faith alone" is found is in James 2:24 which reads:

"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

There is no other passage in the Bible which suggests that "faith alone"

James is one of four Books martin Luther took out of the New Testament.

I can see why billie doesn't want it either, the complete original Bible

keeps making a liar out of billie. OK I take back, billie is a liar all to himself.

He just lies about the Bible.

John 6 is about the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Thanks Vic:

Tried to be agreeable with Bill, but he quickly put me in my place.

Good to see that nothing has changed here.

If you mean that I still disagree with your New Age Urantia Book religion -- you are absolutely right.  Do you really think you can come here sharing your New Age Urantia Book beliefs and not have Christians refute them?   Even our old Friend, Deep, has refuted them -- and he is not a believer.  Yet, he is intelligent enough to know New Age tripe when he reads it.

When you come here sharing the Christian faith -- you and I will be in agreement.  When you come sharing your New Age beliefs -- we can never be in agreement.  Did you REALLY expect that to change just because you found another forum to pollute -- and stayed away from the Religion Forum for a while?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Some of us got what you were saying.

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I have a friend who is a medicinal plant researcher.  He has worked in remote areas of Brazil and other South American countries and is very good at gaining the confidence of native peoples and learning about natural remedies that they have developed from local plants.  He told me of some tribes who know how to limit population in an unusual way.  Once a couple has all the children they want, the woman consumes a certain wild plant item and from then on she will be sterile, with no apparent adverse side effects.  My friend is much more academically inclined than he is businesslike and he has no desire to develop this information into a marketable commodity, but he assures me that the "treatment" works.

Hi Head,

I love reading historical novels; because the research a writer must do to make that historical novel feasible is rather extensive.   One series of books I enjoyed was Jean Auel's Earth's Children series, a series of novels set in the Ice Age time of prehistoric Europe that explores interactions of Cro-Magnon people with Neanderthals.  This series consists of The Clan Of The Cave Bear, The Valley of the Horses, The Mammoth Hunters, The Plains of Passage, The Shelters Of Stone, The Land of The Painted Caves.

These historical novels of the Cro-Magnon and Neanderthals goes into great detail about the medicinal herbs, etc., used by their healers.  One that caught my attention was when the heroine of the novels, a healer, gives her friend an herb to prevent pregnancy -- and to end a pregnancy.   It looks like they had a form of "morning after" medicines even back then.

So, I guess this aligns with what your friend found in his medicinal plant research.  Yet, what Jean Auel found was from the Ice Age people.   I found it interesting.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Ohh!  I found the block list!  I can come back!

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Wouldn't the use of that plant for that purpose be contrary to the Catholic Church's position on birth control?  But that probably wouldn't ,atter to an American Catholic, since the great majority of American Catholic women of childbearing age do not follow the Vatican doctrine on artificial birth control anyway.

My friend has been retired for 20 or more years and is now busy pursuing hobbies that have nothing to do with rainforest birth control herbs.   .

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You do know that the latest ice age - there were many - ended 10,000 years ago, right? And that Neanderthals had pretty much died out by about 33,000 years ago?  I'm glad that you are embracing true history, even if you are only finding it in fictional literature.