You Are Lying! - You Are Lying! - You Are Lying!

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:

quote:

I WILL continue to pray about everything because prayer is a true principle and it works! I say all these things in the name of Jesus Christ! AMEN! !!

COBRA, I think God has you in heart... and you obviously have him in yours... and I'm confident you'll be in heaven...

Hi David,

This is rather ironic. In your Roman Catholic faith, which does follow the true Jesus Christ -- both you and your pope tell folks that you do NOT know if you are saved and will be in heaven.

Yet, you say to Dwight, who follows the Mormon church, a cult church which follows a different Jesus Christ -- that you know he WILL be in heaven.

And, you say that you will see him in heaven.

Can you explain this contradiction? Your church teaches that you cannot know you are saved and will go to heaven -- and Dwight's church is not a Christian church. So, how will you both meet in heaven?

Just curious.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

David, I don't believe Bill wants any information from you, after reading his many posts, it seems to me that all he is interested in is shaking other people's faith and putting on a show. He seems to be a very insecure person that needs the constant praises of man. Look how smart I am, he yells in here. He seems to be constantly trying to reassure HIMSELF that he has worth. Bill, I'm sorry your parents didn't raise you in an atmosphere that would give you a feeling or self worth and confidence. I would suggest you take a break from these forums and work on establishing a personal relationship with God. Pray for a SURE KNOWLEDGE of His existance. Pray for understanding and above all, pray for internal peace.
Dwight

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:

quote:

I WILL continue to pray about everything because prayer is a true principle and it works! I say all these things in the name of Jesus Christ! AMEN! !!

COBRA, I think God has you in heart... and you obviously have him in yours... and I'm confident you'll be in heaven...

HoD,

The christian church today started in the year 33AD from what is called
catholic today. There is only one Jesus Christ and he is Lord to
everyone, not just southern calif. The last I heard was he is still
the one and only judge. Remember, your church is not a church of the bible,
but the bible is a book of the church.

The bible isn't above Jesus. He wrote the bible for us to know him as we start
our christian way. No one knows the heart of man except God.

E

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:

quote:

I WILL continue to pray about everything because prayer is a true principle and it works! I say all these things in the name of Jesus Christ! AMEN! !!

COBRA, I think God has you in heart... and you obviously have him in yours... and I'm confident you'll be in heaven...

DWIGHT'S NEW POST STARTS HERE, SORRY ABOUT HOW IT WOUND UP IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS POST

Bill, it seems there is much you don't know about God. He not only judges you for your behavior / works, but He takes into account the desires of your heart, your intentions, AND the ammount of KNOWLEDGE, TRUTH AND UNDERSTANDING YOU HAVE of His doctrines.
All people will be judged by an UNDERSTANDING, MERCYFULL GOD. EVEN YOU. You might try less of the LETTER OF THE LAW thing and pray for an UNDERSTANDING of the SPIRIT OF THE LAW kind of thing. Remember, God loves ALL His children and ALL nations on earth are His children, even those you condemned to hell in here. Man, I'm glad your not God!

This is rather ironic. In your Roman Catholic faith, which does follow the true Jesus Christ -- both you and your pope tell folks that you do NOT know if you are saved and will be in heaven.

Yet, you say to Dwight, who follows the Mormon church, a cult church which follows a different Jesus Christ -- that you know he WILL be in heaven.

And, you say that you will see him in heaven.

Can you explain this contradiction? Your church teaches that you cannot know you are saved and will go to heaven -- and Dwight's church is not a Christian church. So, how will you both meet in heaven?

Just curious.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
David, I don't believe Bill wants any information from you, after reading his many posts, it seems to me that all he is interested in is shaking other people's faith and putting on a show. He seems to be a very insecure person that needs the constant praises of man. Look how smart I am, he yells in here. He seems to be constantly trying to reassure HIMSELF that he has worth. Bill, I'm sorry your parents didn't raise you in an atmosphere that would give you a feeling or self worth and confidence. I would suggest you take a break from these forums and work on establishing a personal relationship with God. Pray for a SURE KNOWLEDGE of His existance. Pray for understanding and above all, pray for internal peace. Dwight

Hi Dwight,

I see that you have come on the Religions Forum to attack people like you do in your Cherokee Blog. But, you will never respond directly to a question. Why? Do you not know enough about your own church to defend it's teachings?

I have posted, in several discussions, direct quotes from YOUR church leaders speaking about YOUR Jesus Christ, the created man, the spirit-brother of Lucifer/Satan -- and about YOUR church's "committee of gods" instead of a belief in the preexisting God.

Yet, no comment from you. Why?

As a matter of fact, even though you honor me by naming a new discussion for me -- you have yet to respond to any post I have written.

WHY?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

But, you will never respond directly to a question. Why?

quote:

HoD,

The christian church today started in the year 33AD from what is called
catholic today. There is only one Jesus Christ and he is Lord to
everyone, not just southern calif. The last I heard was he is still
the one and only judge. Remember, your church is not a church of the bible,
but the bible is a book of the church.

The bible isn't above Jesus. He wrote the bible for us to know him as we start
our christian way. No one knows the heart of man except God.

HoD,

The christian church today started in the year 33AD from what is called
catholic today. There is only one Jesus Christ and he is Lord to
everyone, not just southern calif. The last I heard was he is still
the one and only judge. Remember, your church is not a church of the bible,
but the bible is a book of the church.

The bible isn't above Jesus. He wrote the bible for us to know him as we start
our christian way. No one knows the heart of man except God.
********************************************

Gifted,

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child:
HoD,

The christian church today started in the year 33 AD from what is called catholic today. There is only one Jesus Christ and he is Lord to everyone, not just southern calif. The last I heard was he is still the one and only judge. Remember, your church is not a church of the bible, but the bible is a book of the church.

The bible isn't above Jesus. He wrote the bible for us to know him as we start our christian way. No one knows the heart of man except God.

Gifted, I agree.

Hi Gifted and David,

Yes, the Christian church, i.e, the universal church, began in 33 AD. And, it is true that the Bible is not above Jesus Christ -- but, is FROM Jesus Christ. The Bible is His full revelation to mankind for salvation and the Christian life.

Since it is His "full revelation" there is no need for other books of traditions and laws. The Bible is fully sufficient for God's purpose and plan for man.

In this, we are in full agreement. And, this is why I fully support Sola Scriptura -- by Scripture alone.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
But, you will never respond directly to a question. Why?

irritating aint it??

Very.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Bill, your getting way to complex for yourself and tripping yourself up. God wants ALL His children to return to Him, therefore, He Gave instructions to ALL the people all over the world, through their prophets. ALL the prophets from all over the world were told to WRITE. Remember, GOD IS THE SAME TO ALL PEOPLE. Now, you only have the record of the Jews. Its called the Bible. Dwight

Hi Dwight,

The picture you paint leaves me with the image of you in the kitchen, mixing bowl in front of you -- creating your own religion. First, you toss in a large supply of Mormonism, with its committee of gods; then miss in a created Jesus Christ in the image of Joseph Smith -- and, for flavor we add in a cup of Universalism from our friends over at the Universalist Unitarian church. And, since we have included our Unitarian friends in your religion recipe -- we have to include a teaspoon of their Humanist Manifesto which they helped create and write.

And, now you have your main dish for lunch -- a mixture of Mormonism, Universalism, and Secular Humanism. Don't forget to shake well before consuming -- for it surely will give you heartburn. It also offers a great deal of other heat; but, we will discuss that later.

In summary, my Friend -- you are dining on a great lunch of Cultism. Enjoy!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Not unlike your half Calvin/half Arminian, it's literal until I decide it is not mishmash.

Have a blissed day, Bill.

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Bill, your getting way to complex for yourself and tripping yourself up. God wants ALL His children to return to Him, therefore, He Gave instructions to ALL the people all over the world, through their prophets. ALL the prophets from all over the world were told to WRITE. Remember, GOD IS THE SAME TO ALL PEOPLE. Now, you only have the record of the Jews. Its called the Bible. Dwight

Hi Dwight,

The picture you paint leaves me with the image of you in the kitchen, mixing bowl in front of you -- creating your own religion. First, you toss in a large supply of Mormonism, with its committee of gods; then miss in a created Jesus Christ in the image of Joseph Smith -- and, for flavor we add in a cup of Universalism from our friends over at the Universalist Unitarian church. And, since we have included our Unitarian friends in your religion recipe -- we have to include a teaspoon of their Humanist Manifesto which they helped create and write.

And, now you have your main dish for lunch -- a mixture of Mormonism, Universalism, and Secular Humanism. Don't forget to shake well before consuming -- for it surely will give you heartburn. It also offers a great deal of other heat; but, we will discuss that later.

In summary, my Friend -- you are dining on a great lunch of Cultism. Enjoy!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Not unlike your half Calvin/half Arminian, it's literal until I decide it is not mishmash.

Hi Crusty,

Let me test your sense of logic. If there are two trees, an oak and an elm, standing a few feet apart -- and you stand between them holding a branch of each tree -- are you an oak tree or are you an elm tree? Or are you an oak/elm tree.

Or, are you neither an oak tree nor an elm tree -- but just smart enough to stand between them and benefit from the shade of both?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Definitions of cult (n)
cult [ kult ]
1. religion: a system of religious or spiritual beliefs, especially an informal and transient belief system regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false, and directed by a charismatic, authoritarian leader
2. religious group: a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs, especially beliefs regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false
3. idolization of somebody or something: an extreme or excessive admiration for a person, philosophy of life, or activity
.........................................................................................

Now the problem with a cult is, your cult is unorthodox to me and mine is unorthodox to you.
So Bill, a fundy is a cult to me and Catholic is a cult to you. See how it's all from the perspective of the follower?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Bill, your getting way to complex for yourself and tripping yourself up. God wants ALL His children to return to Him, therefore, He Gave instructions to ALL the people all over the world, through their prophets. ALL the prophets from all over the world were told to WRITE. Remember, GOD IS THE SAME TO ALL PEOPLE. Now, you only have the record of the Jews. Its called the Bible. Dwight

Hi Dwight,

The picture you paint leaves me with the image of you in the kitchen, mixing bowl in front of you -- creating your own religion. First, you toss in a large supply of Mormonism, with its committee of gods; then miss in a created Jesus Christ in the image of Joseph Smith -- and, for flavor we add in a cup of Universalism from our friends over at the Universalist Unitarian church. And, since we have included our Unitarian friends in your religion recipe -- we have to include a teaspoon of their Humanist Manifesto which they helped create and write.

And, now you have your main dish for lunch -- a mixture of Mormonism, Universalism, and Secular Humanism. Don't forget to shake well before consuming -- for it surely will give you heartburn. It also offers a great deal of other heat; but, we will discuss that later.

In summary, my Friend -- you are dining on a great lunch of Cultism. Enjoy!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Not unlike your half Calvin/half Arminian, it's literal until I decide it is not mishmash.

Hi Crusty,

Let me test your sense of logic. If there are two trees, an oak and an elm, standing a few feet apart -- and you stand between them holding a branch of each tree -- are you an oak tree or are you an elm tree? Or are you an oak/elm tree.

Or, are you neither an oak tree nor an elm tree -- but just smart enough to stand between them and benefit from the shade of both?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

My position in general is that you need to apply the same standards to yourself as you apply to others.

As to your analogy, I would say, just as you have been saying, that you need to decide which tree provides the better shade, and stand under it.

And I would add, if I pick the elm, and you pick the oak, that is okay, too; and neither choice, by itself is wrong and will send us to hell. Quite probably, the shade under both trees is sufficient, I don't need someone else to tell me about the trees to find them, and should I not have found those particular trees to provide shade, I am likely to find other equally suitable trees.

quote:

And I would add, if I pick the elm, and you pick the oak, that is okay, too; and neither choice, by itself is wrong and will send us to hell. Quite probably, the shade under both trees is sufficient, I don't need someone else to tell me about the trees to find them, and should I not have found those particular trees to provide shade, I am likely to find other equally suitable trees.

AMEN. Well done.

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:
Not unlike your half Calvin/half Arminian, it's literal until I decide it is not mishmash.

Hi Crusty,

Let me test your sense of logic. If there are two trees, an oak and an elm, standing a few feet apart -- and you stand between them holding a branch of each tree -- are you an oak tree or are you an elm tree? Or are you an oak/elm tree.

Or, are you neither an oak tree nor an elm tree -- but just smart enough to stand between them and benefit from the shade of both?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day, Bill

My position in general is that you need to apply the same standards to yourself as you apply to others. As to your analogy, I would say, just as you have been saying, that you need to decide which tree provides the better shade, and stand under it.

And I would add, if I pick the elm, and you pick the oak, that is okay, too; and neither choice, by itself is wrong and will send us to hell. Quite probably, the shade under both trees is sufficient, I don't need someone else to tell me about the trees to find them, and should I not have found those particular trees to provide shade, I am likely to find other equally suitable trees.

Hi Crusty,

You are right. Both the Calvinist (oak) and the Arminians (elm) are Christian groups. And, yes, there are other beliefs which differ from these or are differing shades of one or the other. There are doctrines in both camps with which I agree -- and there are doctrines in both camp with which I disagree.

I believe the church which began on the Day of Pentecost in 33 AD was neither Calvinist, Arminian, nor of any denominational leaning. It was the pure Christian church

This passage in Acts 2:41-47 is a good description of the new Christian church in 33 AD, "So then, those who had received his word (and were saved) were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.

And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need. Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved."

They were studying God's Word; they were in fellowship from home to home sharing meals together (a high intimacy in the Jewish culture of that day); they were in prayer for their fellow believers and for God's blessings upon this new faith. They were praising God and worshiping with like minded believers -- and, they were evangelizing. We know this because we are told the new church was growing day by day as new believers were saved.

However, as has happened since Adam and Eve met Satan in the Garden of Eden -- people have been repeating Satan's question, "Did God really say that?" in attempts to impose man's teachings over the teachings of God and His Written Word, the Bible.

This is why we see so many cult churches which teach non-Christian doctrines -- and why we see so many Christian churches which disagree on some Biblical issues. However, as long as we agree upon and teach the Essential Christian Beliefs; that is a Christian church. The Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, New Age, Unitarian Universalists, and other churches do not believe and teach these essential doctrines; so they are cults, they are not Christian.

Personally, as I said before, I stand somewhere in between the Calvinists and the Arminians in my beliefs. While I can fellowship with people from these two churches which I consider the extremes in Christian faith -- I would not want to be a member of either a Calvinist church nor an Arminian church. Yes, they are Christian -- but, I will stay with my middle of the road Christian church which I believe to be closer to the model of the church of 33 AD.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

[QUOTE]Originally posted by beternU:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Sorry YOU see it that way, ISN'T THERE WISDOM IN KNOWING TRUTH? All I can say is I follow James 1:5 in every aspect of my life AND IT WORKS! As for using God as an encyclopedia WHO ELSE SHOULD I LOOK TO FOR KNOWLEDGE AND TRUTH? a human? Ask God about everything! You becha! HE ALWAYS ANSWERS ME!
Nothing to apologize for here, truth IS truth. Go pray and ask God for answers and truth about everything, therein is great wisdom. Try it, your life may just get better![QUOTE]


Well, C.O.B.R.A., if you want to petition the Lord God Almighty to advise you personally and directly concerning each and every belief you find it necessary for Him to confirm or condemn, have at it.

I believe God has spoken plainly in His word, the Bible. For instance, when the Word teaches as it does on marriage--or the absence of same--in heaven, I do not need to pray to God to tell me that His Word means what it says, namely: "The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage....(Luke 22:34 & 35).

That teaching of Jesus is clear enough for me on the subject of whether there will be marriages in heaven, C.O.B.R.A. I don't need to ask God if He really means what He says on that topic. He has made it very plain. And what He has provided in His word directly refutes the LDS doctrine that earthly marriages will continue in heaven!




BETTER ,Again, when you lean to your own understanding you always get spiritual things wrong. Our church teaches exactly what you have printed above, ( the Bible verse ), about marriage. YOU ARE READING AND UNDERSTANDING IT'S WRONG !

IT DOES NOT SAY THERE WILL BE NO MARRIED PEOPLE IN HEAVEN. IT SAYS THAT NO ONE WILL BE GIVEN TO ANOTHER, IN HEAVEN, TO GET MARRIED AND THERE WILL BE NO MARRIAGES PERFORMED IN HEAVEN. That is why husband and wives MUST be sealed to eachother for time and all eternity, while they are on this earth. And that can only be done by someone having power and authority from God,by the laying on of hands.
Are you beginning to see why you must ask God for understanding instead of just relying on your own understanding? If you don't, you miss truths.
Dwigh t

Bill, I don't have a Cherokee blog where I attack people. My blog is the Urim and Thummim.
Dwight

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
David, I don't believe Bill wants any information from you, after reading his many posts, it seems to me that all he is interested in is shaking other people's faith and putting on a show. He seems to be a very insecure person that needs the constant praises of man. Look how smart I am, he yells in here. He seems to be constantly trying to reassure HIMSELF that he has worth. Bill, I'm sorry your parents didn't raise you in an atmosphere that would give you a feeling or self worth and confidence. I would suggest you take a break from these forums and work on establishing a personal relationship with God. Pray for a SURE KNOWLEDGE of His existance. Pray for understanding and above all, pray for internal peace. Dwight

Hi Dwight,

I see that you have come on the Religions Forum to attack people like you do in your Cherokee Blog. But, you will never respond directly to a question. Why? Do you not know enough about your own church to defend it's teachings?

I have posted, in several discussions, direct quotes from YOUR church leaders speaking about YOUR Jesus Christ, the created man, the spirit-brother of Lucifer/Satan -- and about YOUR church's "committee of gods" instead of a belief in the preexisting God.

Yet, no comment from you. Why?

As a matter of fact, even though you honor me by naming a new discussion for me -- you have yet to respond to any post I have written.

WHY?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

So, we believe Mary was ever-virgin, and did not bear any other children.
You don't have to believe that- it changes nothing.

i don't believe that.

she was the mother of our savior, and she didn't even get a little lovins afterwards?

that's a raw deal if ever there was one.

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:
Gifted,

I wanted to share with you this point;

Consider what happened at the foot of the cross. When he was dying, Jesus entrusted his mother to the apostle John (John 19:26–27). The Gospels mention four of his "brethren": James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It is hard to imagine why Jesus would have disregarded family ties and made this provision for his mother if these four were also her sons.

maybe the firstborn was the only one of her kids worth a warm spit, and He knew it, so He set his buddies to care for her afterwards, cause he knew his good fer nuthin brothers would just come back and live in her basement and mooch off her...

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:
and a very good point it is, HoD.

Also- remember when Mary and Joseph could not find Jesus- and travelled back to find him teaching- don't you think they would have mentioned siblings? There are few stories of Jesus' childhood, but a sibling and that relationship surely would have been hit on...

Hi VP,

Assuming you had six kids or more, like Mary, and one was lost. In searching for little Johnny -- would you go around saying, "I have six kids -- but, have you seen little Johnny today?"

My Friend, you are stretching VERY thin.

Don't you see that if you had a relationship with Jesus Christ built upon the Bible -- instead of a religion built upon Traditions -- you would not need to stretch so hard to find the Truth?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

unlike good old Bill 'Mister Elastic' Gray.

quote:

Originally posted by Gifted Child:

quote:

Originally posted by House of David:
Gifted,

I wanted to share with you this point;

Consider what happened at the foot of the cross. When he was dying, Jesus entrusted his mother to the apostle John (John 19:26–27). The Gospels mention four of his "brethren": James, Joseph, Simon, and Jude. It is hard to imagine why Jesus would have disregarded family ties and made this provision for his mother if these four were also her sons.

HoD

Kraven explaned that Jewish law awhile back.

That proved Jesus is an only child (like me) and didn't have other family.

i missed anythign that said Joshua was an only child...
in fact, i missed anything that stated that anythign about HIs siblings, conclusivly, either way.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by CrustyMac:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:

quote:

Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
Bill, your getting way to complex for yourself and tripping yourself up. God wants ALL His children to return to Him, therefore, He Gave instructions to ALL the people all over the world, through their prophets. ALL the prophets from all over the world were told to WRITE. Remember, GOD IS THE SAME TO ALL PEOPLE. Now, you only have the record of the Jews. Its called the Bible. Dwight

Hi Dwight,

The picture you paint leaves me with the image of you in the kitchen, mixing bowl in front of you -- creating your own religion. First, you toss in a large supply of Mormonism, with its committee of gods; then miss in a created Jesus Christ in the image of Joseph Smith -- and, for flavor we add in a cup of Universalism from our friends over at the Universalist Unitarian church. And, since we have included our Unitarian friends in your religion recipe -- we have to include a teaspoon of their Humanist Manifesto which they helped create and write.

And, now you have your main dish for lunch -- a mixture of Mormonism, Universalism, and Secular Humanism. Don't forget to shake well before consuming -- for it surely will give you heartburn. It also offers a great deal of other heat; but, we will discuss that later.

In summary, my Friend -- you are dining on a great lunch of Cultism. Enjoy!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Not unlike your half Calvin/half Arminian, it's literal until I decide it is not mishmash.

Hi Crusty,

Let me test your sense of logic. If there are two trees, an oak and an elm, standing a few feet apart -- and you stand between them holding a branch of each tree -- are you an oak tree or are you an elm tree? Or are you an oak/elm tree.

Or, are you neither an oak tree nor an elm tree -- but just smart enough to stand between them and benefit from the shade of both?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

i'm the maple standing a little ways away, laughing at both the oak and the elm.

Thenagle,

If you're going to be a maple, then I wanna be a mimosa. What Fun...

COBRA, Romans 7:1-3


1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.