Bill,
From a thread you started before Christmas using me as a scapegoat and that you never came back to.
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Posted 24 December 2008 07:12 PM Hide Post
quote:
Assuming the days of Creation are millions of years, instead of 24 hours -- in Genesis 1:11, we read of the Third Day, "Then God said, 'Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them;' and it was so."
Mr Bill, you are a fundamentalist. I am not.
I will not argue every point with you.
If a generation of fungi takes 30 minutes to form and the Giant Redwoods and some species of pine takes 100's of years to reach maturity, then how did they all 'bear fruit after there kind' in 24 hours?
How did enough generations of plants, animals, fungi have enough time to cover the earth in one 24 hour cycle. The Bible only says periods of light and darkness, no time frame. Another scripture tells us that "One day is to God as a thousand and a thousand is as one", paraphrasing.
The greater light we assume is the sun, but the lesser is the moon and does not produce its own light. Since God is all powerful, then one must assume that He simply could have created everything at once, no time passed, or He gave it a start and let things progress. If sun and water was needed first, why create the sun and moon on the fourth day. The order is backwards.
As a fundamentalist, you go with everything created at once. As a biologist, I go with, He started it and then let it progress.
Believing in evolution DOES NOT mean believing man evolved from a monkey. Man has evolved. We have skulls dug up to prove we have at least two distinct ancestors that we call cave men. Your view does not take any science into account so you don't include these.
Lets also examine,"male and female He created them". This could be Adam and Lilith, the disobedient wife. She is not mentioned in the KJV, of course, but she is in other writings. God made her equal to Adam, as the scripture implies. However, she is banished after she refuses to be dominated by Adam, then we later read that God made Eve from Adam's rib to be his subordinate. Why would she need to be his subordinate if Lilith was not there first?
The Bible does not read logically or in sequence, and as had been discussed, either the entire human race is based on incest or Lilith and a demon is the mother of Cain and Abel's wives.
Mr Bill, I love reading your posts, but the fundamentalist view is not the only one. As for other religions, how do I know that Allah is not God or God did not appear to the Greeks as Zeus? How do we know if lesser gods are not angels? How can we judge others when we know that the Books of the Bible were picked over by a group of mortal men with a specific agenda in mind? How can we deny science when most of it was developed by monks and other holy men? I have my view of things, you have yours. LMM
Posted 24 December 2008 07:31 PM Hide Post
Bill,
As you probably know, there are three versions of Genesis, the Hebrew Masoretic Text, the Greek Septuagint, and the Hebrew Samaritan Pentateuch. Roman Catholics and Protestants (Western culture) accept the Latin Vulgate version translated from the Masoretic Text. This Latin Vulgate is a Fifth Century version of the Bible translated by Jerome as commissioned by Pope Damasus I in 382. Eastern Christians, including the Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopic, Jacobite, and Armenian accept the Greek version.
Now if we look at the version accepted in Western Culture we see two stories of creation. One from verses 1:1 to 2:4. The second starts at 2:4 and ends at 2:22. Scholars generally believe the first version is based on a Mesopotamian myth encountered by the Jews in Babylon. The creation account of the world being created in six days did not exist prior to the sixth century BC. The second account predated the first in Judaism.
I believe the Bible is full of many parables attempting to explain that which we do not understand, especially in the Old Testament. It is the faith that is important for it doesn't really matter if it were seven literal days or millions of years.
That, of course, is simply my perspective. It is good to read your perspective and it is wonderful to discuss them. I thought I would share mine with you. I hope you are having a wonderful Christmas.
Peace be with you. Alabamason
Posted 24 December 2008 09:34 PM Hide Post
Now the rub.
In Genesis Ch1 vs 2. " And the Earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
Now we know that " Whatsoever our God doeth, he doeth perfectly". Here we see an imperfect world. The planet earth is not in any habitable condition, and is completely covered with water.
Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it.He hath established it, HE CREATED IT NOT A WASTE, he formed it to be inhabited." Here God himself says that the original creation of the earth was a waste. Somehwere between verses 1 and 2 something happened to render our planet lifeless.
Again in Jeremiah 4:23-26 "I held the earth, and lo, it was WITHOUT FORM AND VOID; AND THE HEAVENS, AND THEY HAD NO LIGHT. i beheld the mountains and lo they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.I beheld and there was no man. and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the citeis thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger."
It is possible from this text we see what happened to the pre-Adamite earth, it was destroyed by sin. Extra