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Reply to "Enemies of the Enlightenment"

Hi Zip,

You tell us, "Morality is a function of the culture in which you live. David, Deep, Bill: You all have to realize that our culture is rooted, at least partially, in biblical example. Some of them are acceptable to everyone (don't murder people for fun); some not so much (it's okay to hate homosexuals)."

I do not believe you will find anywhere in the Bible that we should "hate homosexuals." Yes, the Bible does say that God hates the homosexual lifestyle -- but, it tells us that He loves the homosexual; just as He loves all of His creation -- and that we, too, should love all people. Love the people; not the lifestyle.

Then, you say, "So, Bill, at least IMHO, saying the bible is the sole source of morality is altogether wrong. Our culture is made of many elements. Many, like my ancestors, lived and died without ever knowing that Jesus existed. Even so, our culture is pervasive with Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Judaism, Wiccan, Atheist, and probably even Mithraist elements."

Does anyone else notice the very obvious omission of Protestant Christianity from Zip's list? Zip, my Friend, aren't you being just a wee bit biased? I would say that Christianity, all denominations, per se, has been the greatest contributor toward the morality of our American society.

This is exemplified by the fact that our founding fathers chose to fund the purchase of 20,000 Bible from Europe for distribution throughout the thirteen colonies -- for all the people, even those with little or no Christian faith. Why? Because of the Christian morality defined and taught in this book. They knew that the American people and the American society would be much better if they followed the teachings and morality of this book, the Bible.

And, I give Judaism credit also for our morality. However, I will have to withhold praise for morality taught by the world religions you list.

Regarding people who live and die without knowing of Jesus; God has made provision for them. If you will read Romans 2:14-16, you will find that we are told, ". . .the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them."

In the book "Eternity In Their Hearts," the author, Don Richardson, writes of tribes and peoples on islands and in countries, in many geographical locations, with one belief in common: that a light-skinned stranger would appear among them, with "the book" that tells the secrets of the supreme being.

In Burma, He was called by the tribal people who had never heard of God nor Jesus, Y'Wa. This has a familiar sound to it, doesn't it? In other geographical locations, in other countries, He had a different name -- but, always it was the white brother who was going to come, bringing the book. Yes, God does indeed write into people's hearts His message. And, our lives, our morality, our society -- depends upon how we respond to what He has written -- both in our hearts and in His Book.

Next, you tell us, "David, Deep, et. al.: You need to accept that religiosity is part and parcel with American culture. It's not an "official" part of our government, but as long as you have people who are religious in positions of power, you will always find a religious influence. Hopefully, the best type. Religion is in our national DNA."

By golly, Zip, you and I are on the same page! All I can add to this comment is: Amen! Amen! Amen!

Finally, you tell us, "I would daresay all of you would find a religious person in the woodpile of people who contributed to who you are today, even in a small fashion. Again, perhaps good and perhaps bad. And even Bill probably was influenced by an atheist in some fashion. Personally, I was influenced by Jesuits who taught me to ask hard questions of myself."

I will agree with you that we are all influenced greatly, especially when we are young, by the folks around us. And, this is why Christian believers want to see our children taught Christian ethics and morality; not secular, evolutionist rhetoric and false religions.

Although most of my life I have known of atheists -- all flavors, including secularists, humanists, etc.; I cannot recall ever meeting one personally, in person or in writing, until I joined the TimesDaily Forum.

I have spent a large part of my life around non-believers. But, these folks were, for the most part, just like me -- running from a God I knew existed, but did not want to acknowledge, because I did not want Him to be in charge of my life. I wanted Bill Gray to be in charge of my life -- and for fifty years that was the case. And, I can show you the failures and scars of that "Bill In Charge" period of my life -- reflected in me and in people associated with me.

Yes, I lived among and ran with many other lost souls until I was fifty; but, none that I knew to be actually atheists. Even though my friends were pagans and sinners like me; they, like me, were smart enough to know that God is real. We just did not want Him to be in charge. And, Zip, I truly believe that a great number of declared atheists believe the same -- but, just will not admit it. It is much easier to deny God when you can stick your head in the sand and not see Him. Maybe we should rename the atheist religion and call it the "ostrich religion." Just a thought.

Zip, you have made some good points -- and, I believe we should all give them more consideration.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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