quote:Originally posted by vplee123:
Oh! I KNOW! I KNOW! One attains salvation through the sacraments of Baptism, in which we enter into Christ's death,so we may rise with Him. And also by partaking in the Holy Eucharist.
AND by confessing our sins regularly, doing pennance, and being Christ's love in this world for others.
BUT we are not guaranteed anything. We are in serious trouble if we claim that we KNOW we are saved.
We need to pray for mercy that we will be given eternal life with Christ and not what we truly deserve.
Sorry to butt in, but this is one answer that I **DO** know and love to share!
As for end times, it's a mystery,now, isn't it. Christ clearly said that nobody will know the day nor the hour, but He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead. And we pray for the living,and the dead,that He will raise us up on that last day. the end.
There are as many views of scripture as there are people, one might say, and while I understand that not everyone has or will have the same belief or understanding as I do I would like to share a few thoughts regarding some of your comments and the following verses:
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NIV) 13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.
Note in vs 13 "Brothers" are addressed as the recipients of this word therefore it is being told, written to, saved people, Christians that is. The talk is regarding the dead or those who have died and left this physical life. He also points out in vs 13 that there are Christians and non-Christians that have to deal with death only non-Christians he refers to as those that have no hope., Vs 14 again declares what defines a Christian "Belief" and that those who have died as Christians will be brought by Jesus at the time of His future coming. vs 15 .. those believers alive at the time of Christ coming will not be "raptured" or precede those that have died ( in Christ ). Verses 16 & 17 is referring to that which many call the Rapture, the catching up of the Christians who have died and those Christians that are alive at the time of the Rapture to be translated into their new spiritual body. Vs 18 tells Christians to encourage each other with the words about how both the Christians that have died as well as those that persevere during the time of Christ future coming will be taken care of by God/Christ.
Now regarding your point about no one knowing ..
Reference the following:
1 Thessalonians 5:1-8 (NIV) 1 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.
Again this is written to Brothers, Christians, fellow believers. Verse 5:1, 2, & 3 taken by themselves and alone reinforce what you have said about knowing about the times of Christ Coming for the Saints (dead and alive) known or said by many as "The Rapture" or Catching up. But verse 4 follows and also is to the same Christians that the book was written to. Note it says YOU BROTHERS .. that's fellow Christians are NOT in darkness that this day should surprise you.
I've posted many times and gone around, with Bill, about this but I not only believe fully that the Church and many Christians will have to endure events that will happen before the Rapture, events that are by some termed as part of the Tribulation period and more specifically the seals of Chapter 6 of Revelation and then the Rapture will come in Revelation 7:9. Christ foretold these events to his disciples in the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24. Christ told of this future Rapture and events in the following versses:
Matthew 24:29-31 (NIV) 29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' 30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
So ... Christians are not in darkness but have warning signs (cosmic signs) that will precede when Christ will return to Rapture the dead and alive to himself, in the air. For that reason Brothers (Christians) are not or should not be in total darkness about the future events.
Again I realize that many will not see it this way. This is what I believe the Scriptures say and that the scriptures I have highlighted say. While many will disagree I hope we can do so respectfully and lovingly.