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Reply to "The White Throne"

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by gbrk:

Don't you two go and spoil Unob's knowledge of scripture with silly things such as facts or accurate interpretation and actual meaning of "this generation".  



Ahh, the old "Out of Context" fallacy again.  Nice.  


So I guess Pauls letter was also some sort of ""context" thing, too when he was begging followers to get right with their womenfolk?


1 Corinthians 7:29-31

29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusingit. For the form of this world is passing away. 



The above scripture is not talking about time being short for the end of the world.  The meaning of the above is Paul talking to his readers about serving the Lord, working for the Lord and he is speaking to the married as if they should be single in order to devote more time to working for the Lord.  If single they would be able to dedicate their entire lives doing the work for the Lord where if married they have to divide their time with their families.  The following verse (verse 32) clarifies that and reveals the context that Paul is talking in and what he is saying.

1 Corinthians 7:32-35 (NIV)
{32} I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord.
{33} But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife--
{34} and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world--how she can please her husband.
{35} I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.


And here is another verse that I am certainly taking "out of context" because it seems to clearly assert that Paul beleived that at least some of his friedns would still be alive when Jesus returned:


1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[a]

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words." 

And Paul certainly seem to suggest that dead people would simply remain dead.  It was the LIVE people who went to heaven.  I wonder when that changed?

How can you construe that the words of Paul mean that???  Paul is talking to fellow Christians about their loved one who had died reassuring them that their dead loved ones would also be raptured along with those living at the time Christ returns.  In fact Paul said that when Christ returns, to Rapture the Church, that the dead in Christ (Christians who had died) will be Raptured first then those Christians that are alive will be Raptured but all will be Raptured and not just those who happen to be alive.  This passage though does refer to the end days so in that part you did get the timing right. 


TWO THOUSAND YEARS, you people have been waiting.  How deluded must one be to keep on waiting for some fictional dead guy to return from his sky palace?  GROW UP!



From your first post where you used Luke 21:32 and keyed in on the term "this generation".  I will be the first to admit that different people, human people, interpret Scripture differently so you will get all kinds of answers.  Speaking directly though about the way you used these verses and the term "this generation" as if it was the generation that the apostles were in or in their lifetimes.  You are correct in stating that Jesus said He would return and bring in His earthly Kingdom at a point later in time. 


He then went on to tell the Disciples/Apostles when this would be when they ask Him (Luke 21:7).  Christ began to answer their question about how to recognize when that time would be.  He told them for them to take and teach to the Churches and fellow believers for many would question when it would be and many would falsely report that it had happened or was happening. (Luke 21:8).  Later on Christ would explain certain signs to look for so as to authenticate for sure that it was the actual end days and time for His return.  Those signs were outlined in Luke 21:20-27 or is explained in greater specific detail in Matthew 24:15-31.  The verse you cited: Luke 21:7 is mirrored by Matthew 24:34 and the generation that is spoken of was not the generation alive during the writing of the gospel (Luke, Matthew, etc) nor the generation of the apostles but the generation spoken of is the generation alive at the time of the signs spoken of.  What are those definitive and definite signs that the end times are actually come.

Matthew 24:15 (NIV)
{15} "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--


Matthew 24:29-31 (NIV)
{29} "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
{30} "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
{31} And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Matthew 24:32-34 (NIV)
{32} "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.
{33} Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door.
{34} I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.


It is therefore the Generation that are alive and can witness the very signs that Christ foretold would happen that will experience them and not the generation of the apostles time or when the Gospel was written.  That's why they said you were wrong in applying it to that time period.  Note that I have commented above on the specific scriptures that you presented in this post.

Last edited by gbrk