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A Letter On Tortue-Mr.Obama Please Help

N N-the-SticksEverybody Knows My Name
Dear President Obama,

In light of the recent acknowledgement of some questionable tactics used by the CIA to interrogate terror suspects,I call on you to help me with what you,Pelosi,and Clinton clearly judge to be torture.It is inflicted on my son who is a kindergartener at a school in North Alabama. I know you did not carry Alabama in the election,and consider us to be backwards rednecks clinging to our guns and religion.But sir,I beg of you to make sure that we here in America stick to the high road.The first two examples of torture inflicted on my young son is by his teacher.
It started back in the fall.This rogue teacher made my son do an insect collection.He had to be locked up in our house,and later his class room with several bugs.If it is not ok,for terrorist,then why should he be subjected to it?Then the other day,it got worse.He got in trouble and she placed him in time out and made him stand in the corner.That is clearly unacceptable for terrorist,so it pains me to see him go through such tiresome activity and humiliation.
But sir,the last part is the worst.It involves his mother,my wife that I love dearly.But I have got to do what is right and turn her over.The other night,I walked in the bathroom while she was giving him a bath.With my own eyes,I saw the heartless wench dump a bowl full of water over his head.Of course she said that she was rinsing the shampoo out of his hair,but sir you and I can clearly see that this is obviously a new method of waterboarding.

Sir,I know you are busy firing CEO's and trying to make terrorist love us.But please see if you can help my dear son escape this torture.Say hello to your pastor for me.He seems to be a lovely man.I really enjoyed his sermon praying for God to damm America.Thanks in advance for your help.

Sincerely Yours,
Reformed Right Wing Extremist in Alabama
Original Post

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B beternUOld Faithful
I would suggest that you wait a while and see what else develops in terms of schoolroom discipline. I would suggest that you reserve your complaint until such time as your child's teacher decides to (1)have your child remove all his clothes and then to use a snarling attack dog to "encourage" him to divulge information, and/or (2) make him and other naked children form a human pyramid, while children, of the opposite sex, stand by and point and laugh at them, and/or (3) isolate him in a tiny cell without sanitary conveniences, such that he is forced to wallow in his own feces and urine, and/or (4) stand him on a barrel, blindfolded and with electrodes attached to various parts of his body; and/or (5) carry out actual waterboarding on your beloved rugrat(not the gentle rinsing your silly post analogized to the waterboarding that has long been acknowledged as torture). Yes, when and if any of these things happen, your complaint would have genuine merit and you should expect responsible action from the appropriate legal authorities. So be patient, and in the meantime, try not to trivialize the torture issue with inane and irrelevant comparisons to things that very obviously are NOT anything like the actual torture our government sanctioned during the regrettable Bush maladministration.

Have you paid up your dues to the Alberto Gonzales Fan Club?
Last edited by beternU
N N-the-SticksEverybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
I would suggest that you wait a while and see what else develops in terms of schoolroom discipline. I would suggest that you reserve your complaint until such time as your child's teacher decides to (1)have your child remove all his clothes and then to use a snarling attack dog to "encourage" him to divulge information, and/or (2) make him and other naked children form a human pyramid, while children, of the opposite sex, stand by and point and laugh at them, and/or (3) isolate him in a tiny cell without sanitary conveniences, such that he is forced to wallow in his own feces and urine, and/or (4) stand him on a barrel, blindfolded and with electrodes attached to various parts of his body; and/or (5) carry out actual waterboarding on your beloved rugrat(not the gentle rinsing your silly post analogized to the waterboarding that has long been acknowledged as torture). Yes, when and if any of these things happen, your complaint would have genuine merit and you should expect responsible action from the appropriate legal authorities. So be patient, and in the meantime, try not to trivialize the torture issue with inane and irrelevant comparisons to things that very obviously are NOT anything like the actual torture our government sanctioned during the regredttable Bush maladministration.

Have you paid up your dues to the Alberto Gonzales Fan Club?



Beternu,
I sincerely apologize if I have offended your sensibitities by joking about what you clearly beleive to be torture to innocent terrorist.After all,they're practically harmless;they only want to kill,me,you,and as many other Americans and jews as they possibly can.What's wrong with that?It pains me no end to see lily livered spineless libs like you who care alot more for the feelings of a sand eating terrorist than you do for the safety of your country.But I really don't think you,Barrack Hussein Obama,Nancy Pelosi, or Hillary Clinton give a flying crap about these camel jockies,our place in the world,the middle class,or any of the other things that ya'll love to get your panties in a bunch about.Bottom line,the only thing you liberal jokes care about is your undying hatred for George W. Bush,and your loathing for the capitalistic and conservative values this great country was founded on.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
Trivialize torture? Heavens forbid.
Of course I want a terrorist to be held at the Holiday Inn and given fresh lobster everyday while the government gently asks him if he would be willing to ,perhaps, if its not too much trouble, tell us where he beheaded that evil journalist who wrongly accused him of vile things?

Congrats Bitter, you have a pacifist now so the US can bend over and kiss its collective behind goodbye!
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by N-the-Sticks:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
I would suggest that you wait a while and see what else develops in terms of schoolroom discipline. I would suggest that you reserve your complaint until such time as your child's teacher decides to (1)have your child remove all his clothes and then to use a snarling attack dog to "encourage" him to divulge information, and/or (2) make him and other naked children form a human pyramid, while children, of the opposite sex, stand by and point and laugh at them, and/or (3) isolate him in a tiny cell without sanitary conveniences, such that he is forced to wallow in his own feces and urine, and/or (4) stand him on a barrel, blindfolded and with electrodes attached to various parts of his body; and/or (5) carry out actual waterboarding on your beloved rugrat(not the gentle rinsing your silly post analogized to the waterboarding that has long been acknowledged as torture). Yes, when and if any of these things happen, your complaint would have genuine merit and you should expect responsible action from the appropriate legal authorities. So be patient, and in the meantime, try not to trivialize the torture issue with inane and irrelevant comparisons to things that very obviously are NOT anything like the actual torture our government sanctioned during the regredttable Bush maladministration.

Have you paid up your dues to the Alberto Gonzales Fan Club?



Beternu,
I sincerely apologize if I have offended your sensibitities by joking about what you clearly beleive to be torture to innocent terrorist.After all,they're practically harmless;they only want to kill,me,you,and as many other Americans and jews as they possibly can.What's wrong with that?It pains me no end to see lily livered spineless libs like you who care alot more for the feelings of a sand eating terrorist than you do for the safety of your country.But I really don't think you,Barrack Hussein Obama,Nancy Pelosi, or Hillary Clinton give a flying crap about these camel jockies,our place in the world,the middle class,or any of the other things that ya'll love to get your panties in a bunch about.Bottom line,the only thing you liberal jokes care about is your undying hatred for George W. Bush,and your loathing for the capitalistic and conservative values this great country was founded on.


And just WHERE do you get any idea that I regard any particular terrorist as "innocent" (the record of our detainment and questioning--and in some cases subsequent legal proceedings--showing that that some detainees have been found innocent and others guilty of terrorism). I point this out as an example of the kind of tactic you and others often use in order to employ the diversionary, straw man kind of arguments you all too often construct and rely upon to advance your shabby case. I have not objected to capture and interrogation of any suspected terrorist. I, and many others, including some you would regard as conservative, do object to the actual use of actual torture.

I do not loathe capitalistic values, but I do loathe the imposition of torture on an enemy who might well see our use of torture as "justification" for torturing out own troops.
I loathe the departure from this nation's long-standing record on humanitarian and ethical principles that is inherent in the previous administration's endorsement of torture. You need to expand your own capacity for loathing to include these authentic reasons.
N N-the-SticksEverybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by N-the-Sticks:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
I would suggest that you wait a while and see what else develops in terms of schoolroom discipline. I would suggest that you reserve your complaint until such time as your child's teacher decides to (1)have your child remove all his clothes and then to use a snarling attack dog to "encourage" him to divulge information, and/or (2) make him and other naked children form a human pyramid, while children, of the opposite sex, stand by and point and laugh at them, and/or (3) isolate him in a tiny cell without sanitary conveniences, such that he is forced to wallow in his own feces and urine, and/or (4) stand him on a barrel, blindfolded and with electrodes attached to various parts of his body; and/or (5) carry out actual waterboarding on your beloved rugrat(not the gentle rinsing your silly post analogized to the waterboarding that has long been acknowledged as torture). Yes, when and if any of these things happen, your complaint would have genuine merit and you should expect responsible action from the appropriate legal authorities. So be patient, and in the meantime, try not to trivialize the torture issue with inane and irrelevant comparisons to things that very obviously are NOT anything like the actual torture our government sanctioned during the regredttable Bush maladministration.

Have you paid up your dues to the Alberto Gonzales Fan Club?



Beternu,
I sincerely apologize if I have offended your sensibitities by joking about what you clearly beleive to be torture to innocent terrorist.After all,they're practically harmless;they only want to kill,me,you,and as many other Americans and jews as they possibly can.What's wrong with that?It pains me no end to see lily livered spineless libs like you who care alot more for the feelings of a sand eating terrorist than you do for the safety of your country.But I really don't think you,Barrack Hussein Obama,Nancy Pelosi, or Hillary Clinton give a flying crap about these camel jockies,our place in the world,the middle class,or any of the other things that ya'll love to get your panties in a bunch about.Bottom line,the only thing you liberal jokes care about is your undying hatred for George W. Bush,and your loathing for the capitalistic and conservative values this great country was founded on.


And just WHERE do you get any idea that I regard any particular terrorist as "innocent" (the record of our detainment and questioning--and in some cases subsequent legal proceedings--showing that that some detainees have been found innocent and others guilty of terrorism). I point this out as an example of the kind of tactic you and others often use in order to employ the diversionary, straw man kind of arguments you all too often construct and rely upon to advance your shabby case. I have not objected to capture and interrogation of any suspected terrorist. I, and many others, including some you would regard as conservative, do object to the actual use of actual torture.

I do not loathe capitalistic values, but I do loathe the imposition of torture on an enemy who might well see our use of torture as "justification" for torturing out own troops.
I loathe the departure from this nation's long-standing record on humanitarian and ethical principles that is inherent in the previous administration's endorsement of torture. You need to expand your own capacity for loathing to include these authentic reasons.



I'm going to explain to you slowly my capacity for loathing.I hate terrorist; simple as that.If they were actual soldiers,I might feel somewhat different.But they're not soldiers,they are towel headed cowardly terrorist.So quite simply,I could give a damm about their civil rights.I would just as soon turn the whole area into a giant sandy parking lot and bring our troops home.I know that that is not going to happen,but it sickens me to see Obama feeling the need to apologize to terrorist and apologize for our great Nations exceptionalism.He's ashamed of this country and does not deserve the high office he holds.Go back to rubbing your Obama bobble head and watching AlJazeera.
47.m450n.4747.m450n.47Small Talker
Personally I think that terrorists should be tortured to the maximum extent the human body can take (or until they give the requested information), then when we are done with them, a simple 9mm hollow point to the head will do.

After all, it's a terrorist. They obviously don't feel bad about killing civilians, so I would gladly be the one to pull the trigger and execute these butchers.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
We could simply adjust the rules of engagement. According to the Geneva Accords (to which, of course, AQ does not subscribe), an "unlawful combatant"; i.e., bearing arms in a combat zone but not wearing an identifiable uniform, may be summarily executed. We'd lose a great deal of information sources, but the precious sensitivities of the left would not be offended.

And those who are found "not guilty" (close enough, but technically wrong) are those who cannot be undeniably placed with a weapon on their person during combat actions.

There are proceedings in Gitmo almost constantly doing combatant determination hearings. The burden of proof is quite high.

Easier to just put two in their heads.
Ron P.Ron P.Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by trapped in a red state:
George W. Bush was a warmongering idiot who only cared about the rich maan.He only went to Irak for their oyl.Barrak Obama is the president now rite wingers.Get uset to it!


Not bad but you didn't mention oil or say he was worse than Hitler. I give this one a B-
Flatus the AncientFlatus the AncientHall of Famer
quote:
Michael Scheuer, a 22-year veteran of the CIA who resigned from the agency in 2004, has told Die Zeit that the US administration had been looking in the mid-1990s for a way to combat the terrorist threat and circumvent the cumbersome US legal system.

"President Clinton, his national security adviser Sandy Berger and his terrorism adviser Richard Clark ordered the CIA in the autumn of 1995 to destroy Al Qaeda," Mr Scheuer said.

"We asked the president what we should do with the people we capture. Clinton said 'That's up to you'."
Link

I have to admit that we Americans are not the best at everything. Maybe we should go back to the Clinton era policy of farming out interrogation to the experts in torture?
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Flatus the Ancient:
quote:
Michael Scheuer, a 22-year veteran of the CIA who resigned from the agency in 2004, has told Die Zeit that the US administration had been looking in the mid-1990s for a way to combat the terrorist threat and circumvent the cumbersome US legal system.

"President Clinton, his national security adviser Sandy Berger and his terrorism adviser Richard Clark ordered the CIA in the autumn of 1995 to destroy Al Qaeda," Mr Scheuer said.

"We asked the president what we should do with the people we capture. Clinton said 'That's up to you'."
Link

I have to admit that we Americans are not the best at everything. Maybe we should go back to the Clinton era policy of farming out interrogation to the experts in torture?

Sounds like a great idea. When do we start?
FiredancerFiredancerPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Pheixising:
quote:
Originally posted by trapped in a red state:
George W. Bush was a warmongering idiot who only cared about the rich maan.He only went to Irak for their oyl.Barrak Obama is the president now rite wingers.Get uset to it!


Not bad but you didn't mention oil or say he was worse than Hitler. I give this one a B-


LMAO!
That's a little generous!
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by N-the-Sticks:

I'm going to explain to you slowly my capacity for loathing.I hate terrorist; simple as that.If they were actual soldiers,I might feel somewhat different.But they're not soldiers,they are towel headed cowardly terrorist.So quite simply,I could give a damm about their civil rights.I would just as soon turn the whole area into a giant sandy parking lot and bring our troops home.I know that that is not going to happen,but it sickens me to see Obama feeling the need to apologize to terrorist and apologize for our great Nations exceptionalism.He's ashamed of this country and does not deserve the high office he holds.Go back to rubbing your Obama bobble head and watching AlJazeera.


Puh-leeeze! If you are going to continue to comment on terrorism, you need to learn to use the plural, "terrorists," when you are referring to more than one of them. I will explain THIS to you very clearly and slowly, so that perhaps it will penetrate your dense-as-depleted-uranium skull. A single perpetrator of terrorism is a "terrorist." Two or more of them are "terrorists." Adopting these usages will to some small degree moderate the impression that your posts typically generate, namely that they are the unconstrained ravings of a quasi-literate pseudo-patriotic crackpot!
N N-the-SticksEverybody Knows My Name
Beternu and Worsenclap,
Try to hold off the grammar lesson because you cannot argue my point without exposing yourself for what you are:a terrorist sympathiser and American apologist.So leave off the grammar and spelling lessens and it will hopefully moderate the impression that your posts generally generate:namely that you are a pompous,liberal,terrorist loving,capitalism hating,spellchecking pain in the butt.
B beternUOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by N-the-Sticks:
Beternu and Worsenclap,
Try to hold off the grammar lesson because you cannot argue my point without exposing yourself for what you are:a terrorist sympathiser and American apologist.So leave off the grammar and spelling lessens and it will hopefully moderate the impression that your posts generally generate:namely that you are a pompous,liberal,terrorist loving,capitalism hating,spellchecking pain in the butt.


I will try, but given your predictable outpourings of multiple grammatical gaffes, it will indeed be difficult.
N N-the-SticksEverybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by N-the-Sticks:
Beternu and Worsenclap,
Try to hold off the grammar lesson because you cannot argue my point without exposing yourself for what you are:a terrorist sympathiser and American apologist.So leave off the grammar and spelling lessens and it will hopefully moderate the impression that your posts generally generate:namely that you are a pompous,liberal,terrorist loving,capitalism hating,spellchecking pain in the butt.


I will try, but given your predictable outpourings of multiple grammatical gaffes, it will indeed be difficult.


Given your predictable outpouring of bovine scatiology,I will try to remember that you have no argument that won't expose you for the lily livered lib that you are.That is why you have made posts on my grammar.So why don't you make yourself useful and go rid Florence of political signs?
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
Seriously, If the CIA or whatever security group is holding a known terrorist at what length should they go to to get that information?

If we all agree that any means necessary is the answer then when one of our own is captured by our enemies can we then be outraged by their torture? Do they not also want all the info they can get about their enemy?

I wonder why in this day and age of modern medicine we haven't come up with some way of getting this info from them by less violent and mid-evil ways. I know that a few years ago I went to have a tooth surgically removed at a oral surgeon my cousin works for. She and I are very close and as a joke while I was under sedation she ask me questions and just generally messed with me. She told me some of the things I said and we had a big laugh. The thing was that she ask me some things that I might not readily want to answer and I spilled the beans and then some! LOL Does our government not have these drugs or better at their disposal?

Can we get accurate information from torturing? I would think most would say what ever it took to get the torture to stop whether it be true or not.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
Simply this: AQ's purpose is NOT to gain information, but to simply inflict pain.

Inflicting pain is counterproductive to the business of intelligence. A person in pain will tell you anything to make the pain stop. The threat of pain (electrodes attached, bugs, dogs) is more effective than the actual pain. Psychological means (isolation, waterboarding, humiliation) separate the prisoner from his support structure and makes him more willing to provide information.

AQ does not want information. They want people to be terrorized. They are terrorists, after all, and the purpose of terrorism is to terrify.
ChowChowHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by beth:
Seriously, If the CIA or whatever security group is holding a known terrorist at what length should they go to to get that information?

If we all agree that any means necessary is the answer then when one of our own is captured by our enemies can we then be outraged by their torture? Do they not also want all the info they can get about their enemy?

I wonder why in this day and age of modern medicine we haven't come up with some way of getting this info from them by less violent and mid-evil ways. I know that a few years ago I went to have a tooth surgically removed at a oral surgeon my cousin works for. She and I are very close and as a joke while I was under sedation she ask me questions and just generally messed with me. She told me some of the things I said and we had a big laugh. The thing was that she ask me some things that I might not readily want to answer and I spilled the beans and then some! LOL Does our government not have these drugs or better at their disposal?

Can we get accurate information from torturing? I would think most would say what ever it took to get the torture to stop whether it be true or not.


So what do you think the terrorist thought right before they cut off Daniel Pearl's head?

You have to play at their level if you want to win.
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
Simply this: AQ's purpose is NOT to gain information, but to simply inflict pain.

Inflicting pain is counterproductive to the business of intelligence. A person in pain will tell you anything to make the pain stop. The threat of pain (electrodes attached, bugs, dogs) is more effective than the actual pain. Psychological means (isolation, waterboarding, humiliation) separate the prisoner from his support structure and makes him more willing to provide information.

AQ does not want information. They want people to be terrorized. They are terrorists, after all, and the purpose of terrorism is to terrify.


AQ does not want information? That makes no sense to me. I don't care what their agenda is most any group, country that is waging war (and they say they are waging war on America) would want all the intelligence info they could get.

However i do agree with you on pain is counterproductive to gathering useful information from a prisoner/terrorist. What about the drug route? Any ideas on if its used or if not why it isn't used? Maybe I have watched too many spy movies Confused but I thought we had advanced to that stage by now.
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Chow:


So what do you think the terrorist thought right before they cut off Daniel Pearl's head?

You have to play at their level if you want to win.


Well I don't rightly know what they were thinking chow...but that would be murder not torture.

I personally hope we do not get down to the level of terrorist. Surely we are better and brighter than that.
Sassy KimsSassy KimsOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by beth:
quote:
Originally posted by Chow:


So what do you think the terrorist thought right before they cut off Daniel Pearl's head?

You have to play at their level if you want to win.


Well I don't rightly know what they were thinking chow...but that would be murder not torture.

I personally hope we do not get down to the level of terrorist. Surely we are better and brighter than that.


You obviously haven't seen the video of the man having his throat sawn at with a dull knife for about five minutes while he bleeds out. An AQ father was teaching his 12 year old son how to kill. I assure you it was torturous, as the victim did not stop screaming until he bled out. After that, the youngster was given a sharper knife to decapitate the corpse.
TI The IncriminatorPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by beth:
quote:
Originally posted by Chow:


So what do you think the terrorist thought right before they cut off Daniel Pearl's head?

You have to play at their level if you want to win.


Well I don't rightly know what they were thinking chow...but that would be murder not torture.

I personally hope we do not get down to the level of terrorist. Surely we are better and brighter than that.


So it's better for our citizens to die "better and brighter," instead of taking the necessary steps to stop terrorism? Boy we won't be around much longer with THAT attitude. Roll Eyes
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