A Must Read for White America

Someone mentioned his/her family lost everything in the War between the States and that Alabama still suffers. My father's family was from Athens, one of the hardest hit areas in the South. Due to health problems in my father's family and lack of social services at the time, my father also had a hard upbringing.

The difference we need to remember is my father had ten times, if not more, the opportunities to make up for these problems than did a black youth the same age.

I see racism daily, mainly among poor whites. Yes, I see young blacks who don't try, but whenever I hear Bill Cosby criticize them I think: Mr. Cosby, have you been looking at much of the white youth today? There's little difference.

YES, we are due our fair share![quote]

in all honesty, i have several questions:
where do you expect to get it, and who do you expect to give up their 'due', so that you can have it?
what would 'right' these 'wrongs' for you?
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quote:
If a parent tells a kid every day for 18 years that they are stupid and won't ever make anything of themselves, the parent has reduced the chances that the kid will be successful. That's the same thing slave masters did when they told slaves that they wouldn't make it without their master. Creating self doubt and insecurity can be overcome, but usually not by most. [quote]

i can certainly relate to this, even tho i am not black. i overcame it in spite of my parents. i studied hard, worked many long hours, had a wonderful career, and am now retired. nobody did it for me, or even gave me encouragement, or anything else to get it done. i had to put my nose to the grindstone, push past the obstacles, and just do it.

neither were my ancestors born with silver spoons in their mouths. quite the contrary, they were wooden spoons, if any at all. they were poor, worked on others' farmlands, and fished in the river for a meagar living. even my grandparents never owned a home.

i saw early on, that i needed to 'hit the ground running', if i was to have a decent life. i could have just as easily lamented about my past, both immediate and long-ago.
whether by law, or fate, it was what it was.
looking back only makes me stumble. looking forward, i see my future, whatever i make of it.

i agree that slavery, genocide, and all barbaric injustices against any man are atrocious. but i cannot be sorry for things i did not do, nor would have done against others. i can only do what i can now, to live peaceable among all men, and pray they do the same. the world will only move forward and upward when we all move in those same directions.

may God have mercy on us all.

quote:

Originally posted by ms. wonka:
OneWorld.I understand what you're saying.I am white, but as a child I was shunned by other white kids simply because I had hair like a black person.This being because a few generations ago there was a mixed marriage on my mothers side of the family and 3 of her children bear black traits.

It was my black friends who came to my aid ready to whoop anybody who made fun of me (I was a little slow and very shy),it was black friends who taught me how to straighten my hair and wear my make-up.

I am saddened to find there is still so much racism in our country.

All that being said black america is partly to blame for the way they are viewed. Look at the crime satitics of black America.

I live in a mostly black neighborhood and although I do not consider myself racist I am wary of becoming friendly with my neighbors. Why? Because around here the slightest little thing said brings on violent fights.If Black America hopes to end racism they must start with their own race. They must stop fighting against one another over trivial matters and ban together to end the stigma of violence and drugs.

This is very well put and I hope it will catch on. The hate card will not get us into heaven.



I had rather be black and proud, than a piece of white trash.

quote:

Originally posted by thehippiegirl:
YES, we are due our fair share![quote]

in all honesty, i have several questions:
where do you expect to get it, and who do you expect to give up their 'due', so that you can have it?
what would 'right' these 'wrongs' for you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

quote:
If a parent tells a kid every day for 18 years that they are stupid and won't ever make anything of themselves, the parent has reduced the chances that the kid will be successful. That's the same thing slave masters did when they told slaves that they wouldn't make it without their master. Creating self doubt and insecurity can be overcome, but usually not by most. [quote]

i can certainly relate to this, even tho i am not black. i overcame it in spite of my parents. i studied hard, worked many long hours, had a wonderful career, and am now retired. nobody did it for me, or even gave me encouragement, or anything else to get it done. i had to put my nose to the grindstone, push past the obstacles, and just do it.

neither were my ancestors born with silver spoons in their mouths. quite the contrary, they were wooden spoons, if any at all. they were poor, worked on others' farmlands, and fished in the river for a meagar living. even my grandparents never owned a home.

i saw early on, that i needed to 'hit the ground running', if i was to have a decent life. i could have just as easily lamented about my past, both immediate and long-ago.
whether by law, or fate, it was what it was.
looking back only makes me stumble. looking forward, i see my future, whatever i make of it.

i agree that slavery, genocide, and all barbaric injustices against any man are atrocious. but i cannot be sorry for things i did not do, nor would have done against others. i can only do what i can now, to live peaceable among all men, and pray they do the same. the world will only move forward and upward when we all move in those same directions.

may God have mercy on us all.

hippie,

what I was referring to were the psychological tactics slave masters used on slaves to keep them from uprising. This created a kind of self doubt in many that you will never be able to imagine. This psychological attack is something that your parents/ grandparents did not have to endure. Therefore my additional comments about mentoring and nuturing to overcome/ undo the psychological brainwashing that took place.

As for Buck Wheat's quote ("YES, we are due our fair share!"), you raise some good questions. Personally, I don't know that reparations is the answer, but let's say for a minute that it is. Maybe we could take some of the funds from the Iraq war and allocate them, or from earmarks to build bridges to nowhere. I understand your hesitancy, but where there is a will, there is a way!

Blacks can be their own worst enemies with calling those who study and apply themselves, as "acting white."

I've seen racism in many countries -- Japan, Korea, China, the UK, Germany, Arabia. If you want to see a true cru rouge nation, see how thev French treat North Africans -- remember the riots about two years ago and 15,000 cars burned?

Show me a nation that has not practiced slavery in 5,400 years of recorded history. The first middle passage out of Africa was about 720 AD whem Arabs shipped thousands to Mesopotania (Iraq).

The most this thread will accomplish is to give trolls like Buck Wheat a opportunity to stir things up. Clearly this just a alias someone has created to raise people's blood pressure by making outlandish statements under the guise of being black. This is Jerry Springer or Art Bell stuff. Personally I find this pretty offensive and you guys should not humor his statements.

quote:

Originally posted by Buck Wheat:

quote:

Originally posted by vick13:
I DO NOT HATE ANYONE BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOR BUT I AM SO SICK AND TIRED OF ALLOWING 13% OF OUR COUNTRY CALL ALL OF THE SHOTS.GET OVER IT!!! OVER 65% OF OUR PRISONS ARE BLACK INMATES.AND DONT GET ME STARTED ON WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO OUR INNER CITIES AND CITY GOVERNMENT ALL OVER THE US,THE BILLIONS OF WORKING TAX PAYERS MONEY POURED DOWN THE DRAIN OVER AND OVER...AND THE TRUTH GOES ON AND ON...ITS NOT THE FACT THAT YOUR BLACK ITS THE WAY YOU ACT!!!

LMAO,, and we get a more then fair share of TV air time also. We done snuck in and stold yalls future! LOL

You know you want to be black just like all young white boys do. Most all white girls want to lay with a big mandingo! LOL

Thank you PBS, MTV, BET, FX, and all of the media that support black power!

You both are a good example of why racism exists and why ignorance exists in all colors of the rainbow............

I have looked at many different things from the past events that, (I was never a part of),I as well as many other's don't agree with.

The problem is ,especially for most whites, that we get so tired of feeling that the whole race issue is never going to go away, & is always slung up in our faces about slavery, & like some blacks think that they are owed something for things that we had no control over.

Just because some people from a race do bad things in general, you can't hold a whole race accountable & for years upon years to come, period. Is that right? I don't think so! Does that change the past? No! But, it does keep a stink going on, & more issues.


Throughout history, every race has been done sorry one way or another, it's not just the black race. Most people have had a rough life, & a story to tell, but complaining, & having a pitty party isn't going to solve anything. If you live in the past, you can't move forward, & I think that where people are today has learned from past history mistakes.

I wasn't born with inheritance, my family was poor, my grandparents did not get the oppurtunity to go to school hardly at all, most only have elementary educations if that because they had to work on the farms, my grandparents did not get to graduate school. They didn't go to college either. Most of my family do not have college degrees. Speaking on education, I have not ever heard of any funds set aside if you are white, but on the other hand, I have heard that there is for African Americans & other minorities, but I guess that's not fair, or good enough for most blacks. You might get beat out of positions in life to another race/minority, because now you have to have so many whites, blacks, hispanics, etc. that may not be as good, or have as much experience as a white person. I don't guess there is much a white person can do about that either.

What exactly is your point? I don't see a difference in how you describe your family to mine of being poor, uneducated, & having a rough life.

Blacks, in my opinion now days should all be so grateful to be in such a great country, to have oppurtunities to have a good life, & not be in Africa starving, with aids, being raped, & murdered with no one to come help, or take care of the situation, & having medical needs in clean well taken care of facilities. Do the blacks that want to focus on the past even care or realize how lucky that they have got it?

Do the blacks care about what others have to go through, that is not black, that has been treated badily, that has no inheritances, is poor, & things not handed to them?

Being white doesn't mean that you automatically have a golden ticket, & everything is easy.

Do blacks ever think about the Holocaust, or what the Indians had to go through, & they were not sold off by their own blood like alot of
the blacks were? Where are all of them at? I don't see any of them whining, complaining, & looking for revenge, or hand outs. I guess that they were able to get over much worse things than slavery though. Again, I do not believe in slavery of humans.

Since it was so horrible for blacks to have been taken out of Africa, I would like to know, what inheritances would blacks have gotten from there, what better things would had come from there for the blacks, & if blacks think that it was a mistake for what has happened, them getting brought here to the U.S., then by all means leave, & for the next generations of your children can be at peace in your dear homeland, since White America is so awful, & blacks aren't given a chance.

Can you enlighten me, for the blacks who feel they aren't treated fairly, or what not, why is it allowed to have "black only tv, BET", & "black college funds", & "colleges for blacks". I don't agree with that, because it makes a racial difference, in my opinion it shows racism that is allowed. I couldn't see it being peaceful if "whites" had their own white only college, tv channels, or anything else like that making a difference between races, could you?

What is it that most blacks think that they are owed, to level the so-called playing field? What could it be, that most white Americans are suppose to do to make the complaining, whining blacks happy, for them to not have lame excuses to pin on the whites anymore, just vanish perhaps, or let the blacks use whites as slaves perhaps? I can't see anything making the blacks that throw these excuses around happy, even the ones that didn't go through any slavery events. I think that most just like having something to complain about, & someone to blame their mishaps in life on.

Exactly right, Gerry. Waiting for someone to tell you that you can't say any of those things, don't you know?...10..9.8.7.6.5.4..3.2.1......

quote:

Originally posted by OneWorld1974:

Miamizsun, my only point for exposing my past is to show that by law, these things happened. No other race in America can argue that.

ow, you may want to read some US/American history and pay close attention to the plight of the American Indians.

regards.

On Indian Genocide

"Drawing on Michael Fellman’s book, Citizen Sherman, the general is quoted as saying the following about the Plains Indians shortly after the war: "It is one of those irreconcilable conflicts that will end only in one way, one or the other must be exterminated . . . . We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to the extermination, men, women and children" (p. 26). According to Fellman, Sherman "had given [General Phillip] Sheridan prior authorization to slaughter as many women and children as well as men Sheridan or his subordinates felt was necessary . . . . Sherman would cover the political and media front" and "maintained personal deniability." "The more Indians we can kill this year, the less will have to be killed next year," wrote Sherman. "They all have to be killed or be maintained as a species of paupers."

Valerie quotes Professor Harry Stout of Yale Divinity School as recently writing that Sherman’s "religion" was "America, and America’s God was a jealous God of law and order." All those who "resisted" were "reprobates who deserved death."

But Sherman’s "religion" was not "America," which at the time was comprised of some 30 million people. His God was the federal government or, more specifically, the Lincoln administration and Lincoln himself. This is what motivated Sherman, not the ending of slavery or anything else. After all, the citizens of the Southern states were Americans and included the descendants of Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, and Patrick Henry, among other notable historical figures (Robert E. Lee’s wife, Mary Custis Lee, was descended from Martha Washington’s family).

It was Lincoln, not "America," who defined obeying his own dictatorial orders as "law and order." There was no national plebiscite that decided to pillage, plunder and burn Southern cities and towns and murder civilians by the tens of thousands, as Lincoln’s army did. And even if there was, it certainly would not have been approved by all of "America," as Sherman contended. Lincoln won only 39% of the popular vote in 1860 and still only 55% in 1864 despite having rigged the elections by shutting down hundreds of opposition newspapers, imprisoning tens of thousands of political dissenters without due process, and having soldiers intimidate Democratic Party voters throughout the North. The fact that he also had to recruit and pay hundreds of thousands of European mercenaries, and invoke conscription, speaks volumes about how popular his war was among Americans of the Northern states. Moreover, it is absurd to label the bombing, pillaging and plundering of the entire South, along with killing its people by the hundreds of thousands, as "law and order" or the protection of life, liberty and property, as called for by the U.S. Constitution."

Thomas J. DiLorenzo

Link

When Sherman entered Atlanta, a catholic priest threatened to excommunicate his entire army, if he burned any churches, knowing full well, that most of Sherman's army were catholic Irish mercenaries.

The five churches and one synagogue were spared, as were a hotel being used as a hospital for casualties of both sides and the town hall (used as Union HQ).

I reiterate - we all have scars. How about we simply see each other as equals, as human with the same needs & just move on together? United we stand, divided we fall.

If you are an American, be an American. Yes, you can be proud of your heritage. I'm proud of mine. A family member traced my ancestry all the way back to when we came over on the boat from Sweden & the stories are amazing of what they went through. However, I am not a Swedish American. I am an American.

We need to stop separating from one another based on race, religion, sex, whatever & unite instead. Live in the "here & now", deal with current issues and make this country great TOGETHER.

There will always be racism based on ignorance but please know that those of us that strive to make the world a better place & have a shred of decency see them as ignorant as well. They are not respected or applauded for being ignorant bigots and again, that type of ignorance comes in all colors. We can try to educate them, try to help them see reason, but if they choose to live and think that way, I pity them.

i just wonder if your great grand parents were not brought here as slaves, and left in africa how you would have ended up? are you not better off now because of that, or would your grand parents have gave you more of a chance in life if they were still in africa. surely someone still had ties to africa, i have not heard of any people sending large amounts of money over here from africa to help better the deprived here in the usa. i will be the first to admit i dont know much about the country of africa but what i have seen on tv and that was food drops and starving people surrounded by flies.
you say there would be an equal playing field if your grandparents were not slaves but what would the playing field look like if they were never brought to usa?

quote:

i will be the first to admit i dont know much about the country of africa

Clearly you don't. Africa is not a country; it is a continent. Perhaps you should read up on it a little before you try to chime in with your brilliant insights.

quote:

Originally posted by MarianLibrarian:

quote:

i will be the first to admit i dont know much about the country of africa

Clearly you don't. Africa is not a country; it is a continent. Perhaps you should read up on it a little before you try to chime in with your brilliant insights.

Zing! Hahaha! That was awesome, Marian.

We tend to also forget that the vast majority of black Africans that were sold into slavery were sold by other black Africans. Members of conquered tribes who had earlier been enslaved or slaughtered were now seen as a source of revenue for the conquering tribes. Perhaps being sold into slavery actually spared their lives. Not great comfort, but possibly the best of two really bad alternatives.

And if anyone is familiar with Rwanda, one can see that the vicious tribal warfare continues even to modern times.

The inhabitants of north Africa took as many Europeans as slaves as did that of the second middle passage. Doesn't forgive past wrongs, but does put history in perspective. Slavery was practiced in Africa amongst the indigenous peoples long before the colonial efforts began.

"White America"!?!?!?!?
What kind of BIGOT crack is that!?
I'm just sick of ALL of the race warriors.
If YOU need to divide us by race NOBODY has any choice about what side they are on.
If you think I owe anybody anything, then take me to court and win yourself a judgement. Show what I owe and WHO I owe it to. I'll write'em a check! If you can't do that then shut up.

Good post michael.coffee

quote:

Originally posted by MarianLibrarian:

quote:

i will be the first to admit i dont know much about the country of africa

Clearly you don't. Africa is not a country; it is a continent. Perhaps you should read up on it a little before you try to chime in with your brilliant insights.

i was talking about the country of south africa sorry i was not specific enough for you smart a**

hippie,
what I was referring to were the psychological tactics slave masters used on slaves to keep them from uprising. This created a kind of self doubt in many that you will never be able to imagine. This psychological attack is something that your parents/ grandparents did not have to endure. Therefore my additional comments about mentoring and nuturing to overcome/ undo the psychological brainwashing that took place.

As for Buck Wheat's quote ("YES, we are due our fair share!"), you raise some good questions. Personally, I don't know that reparations is the answer, but let's say for a minute that it is. Maybe we could take some of the funds from the Iraq war and allocate them, or from earmarks to build bridges to nowhere. I understand your hesitancy, but where there is a will, there is a way! [quote]



i don't have to imagine the self-doubt you speak of, i lived it. my parents did use 'psychological tactics' to keep me under their thumb, and a big belt when they felt that didn't 'work'. i had no idea how bound i was, till i grew up and moved (very much against their approval, my mother got a gun and tried to prevent me from leaving) out into the world.

and, my parents and grandparents all came from horrific 'psychological attack' themselves, and that brainwashing filtered down to them originally from many generations back. but i made sure, at least in my own family, that buck stopped here!

this kind of 'slavery' is not owned by only one race of people. but the majority of it does seem to be kept alive by one race.

my deceased grandmother was a Cherokee Indian, where is the compensation she is 'due'? why can't her decendants have some of that land that was taken from her people? why wasn't she compensated for family members who were murdered, so that she had to grow up without her proper family? what could she have become, if only she had been able to keep her land, had a mother and father and elders to guide her, and all her siblings to grow with her? what would be advantageous in my keeping that hatred alive thru generations, because she was wronged by the 'white' man so many years ago? it had to die, so that we could move beyond it, and live.

i do not usually expose much about my personal life, and i'm not whining for myself now. but i felt in this instance, it makes my point.

where there is a will, there is a way! [quote]

EXACTLY. let's all get up, and make a way for ourselves. while so many are busy trying to 'even' the playing field, some of us are out there working hard to have a better life than the one passed down to us. some of us have worked ourselves up from nothing, or even less. the rest can do the same. just. do. it.
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If you are an American, be an American. Yes, you can be proud of your heritage. I'm proud of mine. A family member traced my ancestry all the way back to when we came over on the boat from Sweden & the stories are amazing of what they went through. However, I am not a Swedish American. I am an American. [quote]

good thoughts Joy.
i did not come here directly from the countries of my ancestors. i was born in this country, so i am an American. not an English-Irish-Native-American-Indian American, just an American. why any would distinguish themselves as anything more, i do not understand. someone enlighten me?

MarianLib--Public-Op knows enough about Africa.

A lot of the modern race-warriors point to the past as justification for their advocacy of racial preferences, discrimination, favoritism, advantage, and retribution. Isn't it a better response to the mistakes of the past to learn NOT to repeat them?

One question that keeps popping up on the forum is why do blacks have their own colleges. Here's a little info on why black colleges started.

Origin of black colleges

OneWorld,
I'm glad you know so much about your heritage, and I'm glad you embrace that history. It's special to you and I can't say anything negative about that.
However, my mother also missed school to help my grandfather with the harvest, as did 1 of my aunts and my uncle. My grandfather didn't make it past grade-school because of helping my great-grandfather. So aside form the word "slavery", what point are you trying to make or how are you trying to seperate yourself from a white guy like me? I don't have a cent of inherited wealth, but I made good choices during my childhood, up through my teens...I stayed out of trouble, took care of my schoolwork and graduated 4th in my highschool class and received a scholarship for college. I'm now an accountant. I don't make great money, but I take personal responsibility for my own life to take care of the bills. NONE OF THAT has anything to do with the life my mother, grandfather, or great-grandfather lived. I have to take care of my own responsibilities IN THE PRESENT, despite the past of my family.......Now, you tell me why I should expect any less from a black American.

You know, my dad died without anything to his name but a few records and a stereo. I paid for his funeral. He could not get the healthcare he needed when he was sick and therefore his demise was eminent. That's not the point though. I grew up dirt poor. We didn't even have a water heater or tub to bathe in. I have seen times where I didn't even know what I was going to eat. I have had Christmases where there was nothing under the tree on Christmas morning. But am I pissed because Oprah is an average black woman who is worth a billion dollars? Am I mad because of all of the black athletes who have multi-million dollar sports contracts? Am I mad at Denzel? Fantasia? Snoop? Bill Cosby? I could go on for a very long time. But, NO, I am not mad. Those people embraced the dreams they had and they fought and they worked hard to get where they are. Not just in entertainment but in business as well. I have worked to be somebody and like to think I have done pretty well. I am able to give my kids a life better than I had. I am actually thankful for what I went through growing up. It has made me a better person who does not take for granted the things that I have been blessed with. God bless you all.

I am not sure if what we have been dealing with most times is racism or just people being scared of others' differences. I think that spurs a lot of indifferent feeling. Think about it. If we ever pick on someone or if we look at someone and don't like what we see, it has to do with difference. For example, if your black, it is a battle of lighter and darker. We argue the difference. I just don't think alot of what we deal with today is true racism(although it is out there and should be "dealt" with) as much as it is fear of difference which has a tendency to lead to change. And what do humans usually fear most? CHANGE.

That article says that whites don't want to attend HBCs. That's not true. Whites can and do get minority scholarships to HBCs.

Going to those campuses, which I have, proves the original post of this thread completely wrong. One can see blacks learning, working, achieving their goals and becoming successful. The same can be seen at my alma mater which consists of many races.

The myth that whitey is holding the black man down today is just that, a myth.

Many minorities have been treated horribly I don't see them as being as vocal as the Negro minority. The Irish, Italians, Poles and the Jews have also suffered discrimination.

I would propose, for thought only, that a minority that continually asserts its minority status in word and deed is perpetuating that which it wishes to disown, stereotypes and condemnation.

It would possibly inflame some if their actions, language and behavior were called to their attention as reasons for some of the supposed negative attitudes regarding their racial makeup.

Negroes have suffered inumerable wrongs and bad treatment by previous generations in this country and forty years of welfare and affirmative action have not lessened their feelings of entitlement. What shall be done to assuage them? There may never be enough for some and others have gone on and succeeded, you judge.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:
OneWorld,
I'm glad you know so much about your heritage, and I'm glad you embrace that history. It's special to you and I can't say anything negative about that.
However, my mother also missed school to help my grandfather with the harvest, as did 1 of my aunts and my uncle. My grandfather didn't make it past grade-school because of helping my great-grandfather. So aside form the word "slavery", what point are you trying to make or how are you trying to seperate yourself from a white guy like me? I don't have a cent of inherited wealth, but I made good choices during my childhood, up through my teens...I stayed out of trouble, took care of my schoolwork and graduated 4th in my highschool class and received a scholarship for college. I'm now an accountant. I don't make great money, but I take personal responsibility for my own life to take care of the bills. NONE OF THAT has anything to do with the life my mother, grandfather, or great-grandfather lived. I have to take care of my own responsibilities IN THE PRESENT, despite the past of my family.......Now, you tell me why I should expect any less from a black American.

Peter, Thank you for the acknowledgement. I take back all the bad things I've said about you! To answer your question, at no point did I say you should expect anything less from a black person than from yourself. I have been on this forum for a couple months and have written at least 50 posts. In none of them did I say you should expect anything less from anybody.

That's the problem. Black critics really don't take the time to internalize anything we say before trying to condemn it. If you would stop trying to discount it and be more open minded, we could get beyond this discussion pretty quickly. After all, that is what you want, right?

quote:

Originally posted by outspokenjerk:
I am not sure if what we have been dealing with most times is racism or just people being scared of others' differences. I think that spurs a lot of indifferent feeling. Think about it. If we ever pick on someone or if we look at someone and don't like what we see, it has to do with difference. For example, if your black, it is a battle of lighter and darker. We argue the difference. I just don't think alot of what we deal with today is true racism(although it is out there and should be "dealt" with) as much as it is fear of difference which has a tendency to lead to change. And what do humans usually fear most? CHANGE.

I think a lot of it has to do with people not thinking about what is right or wrong, but instead thinking about how does it impact me. A lot of posts on here have said "I agree that it is/ was horrible, but why should I pay, or why should I be penalized, etc." That is why I am personally against reparations. If you knew that nothing would be taken away from you, it would be easier to acknowledge the wrongs, instead of becoming defensive and trying to discount them.

yeah.
I'm all about understanding and communication.
Most special interest groups are formed around perfectly valid issues and ideas. I agree with most of what most of the special interests have to say.
The thing which usually gets in the way is when someone trys to turn their particular agenda or issue into justification for using government force against honest, peaceful people.
I think people all benefit from learning about and understanding one another.
I think that if someone is having trouble and needs help, people need to know about it, so they can help.
I think real justice starts with equal protection under the law, and the presumption of innocence.
I think people should be judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I think racial, gender, or any other arbitrary discrimination and preferencial treatement has no place in civil society, most especially when it's the government doing it or advocating it.

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:
That article says that whites don't want to attend HBCs. That's not true. Whites can and do get minority scholarships to HBCs.

Going to those campuses, which I have, proves the original post of this thread completely wrong. One can see blacks learning, working, achieving their goals and becoming successful. The same can be seen at my alma mater which consists of many races.

The myth that whitey is holding the black man down today is just that, a myth.

The article talks about the origin of black colleges and universities. Most started after slavery ended, but before integrated started. In other words, blacks had to start their own universities if they wanted to be educated. I find it ironic that so many folks are critical of black colleges, then turn around and say blacks need to pull themselves up by their own boot straps. Isn't that the purpose of black colleges?

Also, the exact statement in the article was

quote:

Meanwhile, the reality is that Black Colleges never have excluded White students and most White folk did not and do not wish to attend an all Black or predominantly Black institution.

So get your facts right before you try to condemn the article.

As for folks that say black colleges are not relevant today. That is a false statement. I know several white people in north Alabama that have gone to Alabama A&M to get masters degrees because UNA and UAH did not offer the programs they were looking for. So to say these colleges are irrelevent is a falsehood.

quote:

Originally posted by OneWorld1974:

Peter, Thank you for the acknowledgement. I take back all the bad things I've said about you! To answer your question, at no point did I say you should expect anything less from a black person than from yourself. I have been on this forum for a couple months and have written at least 50 posts. In none of them did I say you should expect anything less from anybody.

That's the problem. Black critics really don't take the time to internalize anything we say before trying to condemn it. If you would stop trying to discount it and be more open minded, we could get beyond this discussion pretty quickly. After all, that is what you want, right?

But see, I'm not condeming your point, I'm just saying that I've developed my view of the racial divide in this country from first hand experience. I think I've mentioned this, but I think back to my childhood. Many of my very best friends were black. Up until I was about 13 or 14, it was a regualrity to see me, my brother, one of our white friends, then 5 or 6 of our black friends playing basketball in my backyard. None of us looked at each other as a lesser person because our skin tone was different....we were friends who liked to shoot hoops after school.
But I saw the change IN THEM!!!! All of a sudden Tupac was tellin the black kids that being a thug was cool, smokin weed was cool, and that being friends with whitey wasn't cool. That's fact. I lost friends over this trash, and I just get sick of the consensous being that it's white folks fault. That just isn't the truth. I watched 2 frieds, one could have gone to any college in this country to play football, one could've gone to any college in this country to play basketball. But the cool thing became being a thug and smoking weed so they both ruined those oppurtunities. One of my childhood friends is still a friend, but he got into this gang crap. I called him on it just about every day. He told me what was goin on, I tried to help him. He has one of the best hearts of anybody I've ever met, still does. But he got sucked into that crap and can't get out to this day. He's been in and out of drugs, fights, and jail since high school. BUT THEY DID IT. They made the bad choice, no white person made it for them. That's my only point. There is no question that the "black leadership", whether you agree with them or not, they still want to keep this mostly about "the man holdin us down" and not face the fact that it all comes back to personal responsibility.
Racism just isn't the national problem that it continues to be blown up to be. That's fact. Everyone has an oppurtunity to make good choices or bad choices, reguardless of race. That's what I want to hear. I don't want to hear, "The gov't owes us because of the past", I want to hear, "Get an education, get a job, make good choices." Once again I emphasize that my distain is for the irresponsibility of the so called "black leadership" in this country, not for any person based on race.

quote:

So get your facts right before you try to condemn the article.

Work on your reading comprehension.

From the article.

"Meanwhile, the reality is that Black Colleges never have excluded White students and most White folk did not and do not wish to attend an all Black or predominantly Black institution."

From my post.

"That article says that whites don't want to attend HBCs. That's not true. Whites can and do get minority scholarships to HBCs."

I've never been critical of HBC's. I don't see anything wrong with them because they do not exclude whites. I actually work with TSU which is a HBC. I've been on campus and known whites who attended. It's a great school.

Yes, there are some people who don't want to attend HBC's just like there are some who don't want to attend Belmont or Lipscomb because of the religious backgrounds. They are not exclusive to those of differing faiths, it's just part of their history and tradition.

The truth of the matter is that there is plenty of education and opportunities available to blacks today, more than ever before. So blaming the problems of the black community on something that has been over for almost 200 years is a weak excuse.

quote:

Originally posted by NashBama:

quote:

So get your facts right before you try to condemn the article.

Work on your reading comprehension.

From the article.

"Meanwhile, the reality is that Black Colleges never have excluded White students and most White folk did not and do not wish to attend an all Black or predominantly Black institution."

From my post.

"That article says that whites don't want to attend HBCs. That's not true. Whites can and do get minority scholarships to HBCs."

I've never been critical of HBC's. I don't see anything wrong with them because they do not exclude whites. I actually work with TSU which is a HBC. I've been on campus and known whites who attended. It's a great school.

Yes, there are some people who don't want to attend HBC's just like there are some who don't want to attend Belmont or Lipscomb because of the religious backgrounds. They are not exclusive to those of differing faiths, it's just part of their history and tradition.

The truth of the matter is that there is plenty of education and opportunities available to blacks today, more than ever before. So blaming the problems of the black community on something that has been over for almost 200 years is a weak excuse.

Nash, you said "the article says that whites don't want to attend HBC's." That is incorrect. The article says "most White folk did not and do not wish to attend an all Black or predominantly Black institution."

The point I was making is that you tried to spin what the article said. Simple fact: there is a difference between your summary of the article and what it actually said.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Rielly:

quote:

Originally posted by OneWorld1974:

Peter, Thank you for the acknowledgement. I take back all the bad things I've said about you! To answer your question, at no point did I say you should expect anything less from a black person than from yourself. I have been on this forum for a couple months and have written at least 50 posts. In none of them did I say you should expect anything less from anybody.

That's the problem. Black critics really don't take the time to internalize anything we say before trying to condemn it. If you would stop trying to discount it and be more open minded, we could get beyond this discussion pretty quickly. After all, that is what you want, right?

But see, I'm not condeming your point, I'm just saying that I've developed my view of the racial divide in this country from first hand experience. I think I've mentioned this, but I think back to my childhood. Many of my very best friends were black. Up until I was about 13 or 14, it was a regualrity to see me, my brother, one of our white friends, then 5 or 6 of our black friends playing basketball in my backyard. None of us looked at each other as a lesser person because our skin tone was different....we were friends who liked to shoot hoops after school.
But I saw the change IN THEM!!!! All of a sudden Tupac was tellin the black kids that being a thug was cool, smokin weed was cool, and that being friends with whitey wasn't cool. That's fact. I lost friends over this trash, and I just get sick of the consensous being that it's white folks fault. That just isn't the truth. I watched 2 frieds, one could have gone to any college in this country to play football, one could've gone to any college in this country to play basketball. But the cool thing became being a thug and smoking weed so they both ruined those oppurtunities. One of my childhood friends is still a friend, but he got into this gang crap. I called him on it just about every day. He told me what was goin on, I tried to help him. He has one of the best hearts of anybody I've ever met, still does. But he got sucked into that crap and can't get out to this day. He's been in and out of drugs, fights, and jail since high school. BUT THEY DID IT. They made the bad choice, no white person made it for them. That's my only point. There is no question that the "black leadership", whether you agree with them or not, they still want to keep this mostly about "the man holdin us down" and not face the fact that it all comes back to personal responsibility.
Racism just isn't the national problem that it continues to be blown up to be. That's fact. Everyone has an oppurtunity to make good choices or bad choices, reguardless of race. That's what I want to hear. I don't want to hear, "The gov't owes us because of the past", I want to hear, "Get an education, get a job, make good choices." Once again I emphasize that my distain is for the irresponsibility of the so called "black leadership" in this country, not for any person based on race.

You have a unique personal experience. But to say that your experience with three or four black kids makes you the expert on black youth is wrong. You cannot catagorically say that all black kids try ti be thugs. That is what most black critics do. Rather than see each person as unique, they take a simplified view of the situation.

I do not say that all white people are trying to hold black people down. That would be an insane thing to think or say. So the same holds true to those whites who say "blacks are lazy," or "blacks just want a handout."

It may be true that some blacks are lazy, just as some whites are lazy. But for black critics to say all blacks are lazy is something that I will take exception to for eternity.

quote:

Originally posted by OneWorld1974:
Rather than see each person as unique, they take a simplified view of the situation.

The very title of the article does just that.
I agree with you. We always need to think in terms of individual human beings with equal rights before the law.
To catagorize people into groups invented for the purpose is the first step toward creating an 'us and them' situation. The next step is to dehumanize the 'others' so we can violate their rights without moral restraint.

quote:

Originally posted by OneWorld1974:
You have a unique personal experience. But to say that your experience with three or four black kids makes you the expert on black youth is wrong. You cannot catagorically say that all black kids try ti be thugs. That is what most black critics do. Rather than see each person as unique, they take a simplified view of the situation.

I do not say that all white people are trying to hold black people down. That would be an insane thing to think or say. So the same holds true to those whites who say "blacks are lazy," or "blacks just want a handout."

It may be true that some blacks are lazy, just as some whites are lazy. But for black critics to say all blacks are lazy is something that I will take exception to for eternity.

Please, READ MY POSTS. Number one, my experience in this is FAR above the few stories I told in my previous post. Those are just a few. And I continue to emphasize the point that I'm not attacking black people with black steryotypes. I'm condeming the so called "black leadership" for not attacking those stereotypes and trying to change them. And I don't think all black kids try to be thugs, what I'm saying is, unfortunately the thug culture is one that has been, not only tolerated, but glorified within the black community far too much. Once again, that's an unargueable fact. I've seen many times where a black kid that is articulate, hard worker in school, wants to succeed, and don't dress like tupac or 50 cent...I've seen those kids get unmercifully ridiculed by the "cool" black kids...the thugs. Now, you see that all the time, once click picking on a kid, however, the thug click is a criminal click. They rob, assault, kill, and are considered cooler the more of this they do.
I bable about this because I think this is a very important cultural issue that needs to be addressed NOW. Not by me....nobody is gonna listen to a white guy from Alabama. We need more folks to honestly speak out like Bill Cosby did. They need to speak out loud and often about this so that future generations of young blacks don't grow up in this culture of hate.
I'll leave you with a loose quote from Jesse Jackson...
"I hate that when I walk down the street and hear footsteps behind me, then turn and see that the footsteps are from white people and feel at ease."
Now that's Jesse Jackson!!! I tried to find the exact quote but couldnt. I heard that on the news one day and was knocked down with suprise because no one has bashed the Rev. more than me. I just want to hear him scream this from the mountain tops. It shouldnt be this way.
But even he see's it. Well educated, law abiding black citizens see that thug image as negative too. It's not whites being racists. I just hate stupid people. Whether it's a white guy with Nazi tatoos and long greasy hair, or a black guy with 48 tatoos, baggy pants and cornrows. I think it's all stupid. But unfortunately you don't see the white guy with Nazi tats on MTV 24 hours a day do you?

I agree completely.
It works just as well like this:

quote:

...I'm not attacking black people with black steryotypes. I'm condeming the so called "black leadership" for not attacking those stereotypes and trying to change them. And I don't think all black kids try to be thugs, what I'm saying is, unfortunately the thug culture is one that has been, not only tolerated, but glorified within the black community far too much. Once again, that's an unargueable fact. I've seen many times where a black kid that is articulate, hard worker in school, wants to succeed, and don't dress like tupac or 50 cent...I've seen those kids get unmercifully ridiculed by the "cool" black kids...the thugs. Now, you see that all the time, once click picking on a kid, however, the thug click is a criminal click. They rob, assault, kill, and are considered cooler the more of this they do.

-That's- what I have observed.