The response to my discussion was and is overwhelming; just goes to show what the hot button was in the last elections: Iraq. I don't even have time to read through all the responses; so I am going to simplify it just to get a sampling of overall opinion of the Shoals area
Original Post
A mother asked President Bush, "Why did my son have to die in Iraq?"

Another mother asked President Kennedy, "Why did my son have to die in Viet Nam?"

Another mother asked President Truman, "Why did my son have to die in Korea?

Another mother asked President F.D. Roosevelt, "Why did my son have to die at Iwo Jima?"

Another mother asked President W. Wilson, "Why did my son have to die on the battlefield of France?"

Yet another mother asked President Lincoln, "Why did my son have to die at Gettysburg?"

And yet another mother asked President G. Washington, "Why did my son have to die near Valley Forge?"

Then long, long ago, a mother asked...

"Heavenly Father, why did my Son have to die on a cross outside of Jerusalem?"

The answers to all these are similar --
"So that others may have life and dwell in peace, happiness and freedom."
See, this is why I hate polls. I get where you were going, Maddog, but the reason there were so many posts is the same reason so few have voted. We are searching for the answer to that question, among others. I mainly want whatever is best, safest and wisest for our troops. That's the single most important factor for most Americans, IMHO.

I'd also like our country to cease being the most hated country in the world. Our only chance for that is to leave Iraq stable. Athough I'm not 100% convinced that it is possible, I am much more hopeful at this point in our discussions, searching, sharing information, etc.

Now, if you had asked, do we want the exit strategy (that mauiboy is a part of) to succeed and as quickly as humanly possible, I'd have voted yes. Smiler
After all the discussion , I still think there are only 2 actions we should take in Iraq which will bring success.

1> Declare victory and withdraw ASAP. This is my personal preference since I believe this is an unjust war.

2. Declare war, and show them what war really is. Bomb their cities to oblivion like we did Berlin, Tokyo, and other cities in Germany and Japan. Kill everybody that has a gun . Put the fear of Allah in them and the other people over there. Demand unconditional surrender, and enforce that with another 200,000 troops. Take their oil to pay for the victory, and stop sending them gasoline.

We are not fighting a war now, we are just sending our troops to be cannon fodder (or maybe IED fodder), like we did in Vietnam.
Even if we capture the enemy , their government tells us to let them go and WE DO. How stupid is that!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
After all the discussion , I still think there are only 2 actions we should take in Iraq which will bring success.

1> Declare victory and withdraw ASAP. This is my personal preference since I believe this is an unjust war.

2. Declare war, and show them what war really is. Bomb their cities to oblivion like we did Berlin, Tokyo, and other cities in Germany and ***an. Kill everybody that has a gun . Put the fear of Allah in them and the other people over there. Demand unconditional surrender, and enforce that with another 200,000 troops. Take their oil to pay for the victory, and stop sending them gasoline.

We are not fighting a war now, we are just sending our troops to be cannon fodder (or maybe IED fodder), like we did in Vietnam.
Even if we capture the enemy , their government tells us to let them go and WE DO. How stupid is that!!!!


Have you considered 2nd through 10th order of effects of each of those scenarios?
why is 12 months unreasonable? 12 months as only a starting point to BEGIN our pullout?
How long does it take to train and prepare Iraq soldiers to do SOMETHING for themselves? Our boys recieve a few months training ,handed a gun and shipped over there so whats the REAL problem here,the one not being discussed?
quote:
Originally posted by �bermensch:
Bear in mind that while we have lost 3,000 soldiers in Iraq we have lost in the same time frame about 160,000 to car accidents right here at home.


I hardly think comparing war to car accidents are even in the same league. That is like comparing apples to oranges, just cannot be done.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
why is 12 months unreasonable? 12 months as only a starting point to BEGIN our pullout?
How long does it take to train and prepare Iraq soldiers to do SOMETHING for themselves? Our boys recieve a few months training ,handed a gun and shipped over there so whats the REAL problem here,the one not being discussed?


12 months would be a feasible time in OUR timeline... but we still have to remember that we are dealing with war mongers over there and that we just cannot walk gracefully out of there, there will be so many repercussions for years to come. Those people are taught from infancy that to die for their cause is the biggest honor they can ever get. I am just praying that we CAN get out of there safely.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
AND now their very own,has had it ready to quit BEFORE his term is up
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,240937,00.html

now whats up with this?


Sounds like he is in total disagreement of what is going on in his own country and even maybe in fear of his own life if he continues? And they are planning to hang Saddam's 2 co-defendents Tomorrow... maybe that has something to do with it too? I don't really know, those are just my opinions.
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
After all the discussion , I still think there are only 2 actions we should take in Iraq which will bring success.

1> Declare victory and withdraw ASAP. This is my personal preference since I believe this is an unjust war.

2. Declare war, and show them what war really is. Bomb their cities to oblivion like we did Berlin, Tokyo, and other cities in Germany and Japan. Kill everybody that has a gun . Put the fear of Allah in them and the other people over there. Demand unconditional surrender, and enforce that with another 200,000 troops. Take their oil to pay for the victory, and stop sending them gasoline.

We are not fighting a war now, we are just sending our troops to be cannon fodder (or maybe IED fodder), like we did in Vietnam.
Even if we capture the enemy , their government tells us to let them go and WE DO. How stupid is that!!!!


WEll said excelman. I completely agree with you. It is ridiculous to try to fight some sort of controlled war. It doesn't work. There is no limited war, especially when the enemy is fighting under a different set of rules.

I think we should just get out of there (and should have never been there in the first place) but if we are going to send troops somewhere, send enough, and set the rules of engagement so as to allow our troops to use their superior fire power and training. Right now we are gfetting our tails handed to us by some untrained renegades with rocket launchers. That should NEVER happen.
quote:
Originally posted by brakefield20032003:
quote:
Originally posted by excelman:
After all the discussion , I still think there are only 2 actions we should take in Iraq which will bring success.

1> Declare victory and withdraw ASAP. This is my personal preference since I believe this is an unjust war.

2. Declare war, and show them what war really is. Bomb their cities to oblivion like we did Berlin, Tokyo, and other cities in Germany and Japan. Kill everybody that has a gun . Put the fear of Allah in them and the other people over there. Demand unconditional surrender, and enforce that with another 200,000 troops. Take their oil to pay for the victory, and stop sending them gasoline.

We are not fighting a war now, we are just sending our troops to be cannon fodder (or maybe IED fodder), like we did in Vietnam.
Even if we capture the enemy , their government tells us to let them go and WE DO. How stupid is that!!!!


WEll said excelman. I completely agree with you. It is ridiculous to try to fight some sort of controlled war. It doesn't work. There is no limited war, especially when the enemy is fighting under a different set of rules.

I think we should just get out of there (and should have never been there in the first place) but if we are going to send troops somewhere, send enough, and set the rules of engagement so as to allow our troops to use their superior fire power and training. Right now we are gfetting our tails handed to us by some untrained renegades with rocket launchers. That should NEVER happen.


There is nothing I can add to excelman's or brakefield's replies here... they said what the majority of people are saying, and I AGREE with them both of them.

About 2/3rds of the people in the Nation are also basically agreeing with both of your comments. Polls this morning on CNN, NBC, MSNBC said that the people are basically adopting a "DO IT or GET OFF THE POT" attitude.

It isn't our country anyway, it isn't even the country who caused 9/11.
quote:
Originally posted by brakefield20032003:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
It isn't our country anyway, it isn't even the country who caused 9/11.[/color][/b]


Let us never forget this.


Let us not, if we do, no telling WHAT will happen then... Thanks brakefield
Well, Joy, Brakefield, Kindred and mauiboi, I was trying to let people express themselves anonymously through a poll. Didn't work. Same remarks as in the others by the same people. The abovementioned, I agree with all you said. As an afterthought, I caught a repeat on PBS last night about the preparation for going to war in Iraq. It is very telling about how Cheney and Rumsfield were determined to go to war with Iraq. Can't remember the title (that **** Oldzheimers again LOL) but if you will go to PBS.ORG there is a replay of Frontline each week. Brentenman, I really wish you would at least check it out with an open mind. Thanks to all who participated and voted, THE DOG
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
Well, Joy, Brakefield, Kindred and mauiboi, I was trying to let people express themselves anonymously through a poll. Didn't work. Same remarks as in the others by the same people. The abovementioned, I agree with all you said. As an afterthought, I caught a repeat on PBS last night about the preparation for going to war in Iraq. It is very telling about how Cheney and Rumsfield were determined to go to war with Iraq. Can't remember the title (that **** Oldzheimers again LOL) but if you will go to PBS.ORG there is a replay of Frontline each week. Brentenman, I really wish you would at least check it out with an open mind. Thanks to all who participated and voted, THE DOG


Maddog, I don't call it Oldzheimers, I just call it my senior moments, lol...

Anyway, the polls nationwide is so different than this one is... SO different.
LOL I have an aunt that calls it oldtimers. And she is not making fun, that's what she thinks it is. Of course this is also my aunt that when I was young, we were over there making a list of who was to bring this and that.For a family vacation,we had 2 houses in laguna beach She mentioned she was bringing her crockpot except God bless her she called it her c-0-c-kpot. Just thinking about it now make me LOL.And that's not all,the operation that some women have is a histereckdom. Gosh, I love that women.
People will defend the Bush and the Republican party with their last breath. I say come out and play in the real world, talk to people who are out in the work force, struggling to get by while inflation rises, jobs are scarce, not to mention competing for those jobs with illegal immigrants, then come back and tell these people how great the reform is. I work my a$s off for everything I have (which is the American way), but I am not so above everything as to not understand the real decisions made everyday by those less fortunate (i.e. pay rent, or buy groceries for the kids). That choice, and others just as hard, are being made by too many families everyday. Our government can spend untold amounts on a war we shouldn't even be involved in, money to rebuild that same country, but we still have families living on the street making the sort of decisions I mentioned above. Get your kid out of college and make him or her join up and go to Iraq, you care about the troops while they can fight but when they return home you forget about them.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
PBA: You are an intelligent person and I agree with all you said. Since it's Sunday, will bark out an AMEN (that should make Kindred and Joy happy) THE DOG


LOL, MADDOG, sorry I missed that Sunday, but it still makes my Monday. Smiler

I agree, too, PBA54, life is hard for many people here & the older I get, the more I see it. My sister lost her husband...try taking care of 3 kids while grieving to the point she can't breathe & doesn't want to get out of bed. And as hard as that is, some here is the states have it much worse. I hope we will not wait on the government to see them & intervene, however. I think those that do see & are able should intervene immediately.

However, I understand what you are saying. As long as we are at war, the government cannot focus on creating jobs & education, two things that would help the hurting help themselves, here in the states.

We have hashed out the past & I think most here agree we should not have entered Iraq. But now I think it's time to focus on an end & make sure our government understands how we feel about that. We do NOT want their oil or their country, despite what our government's self-seeking intentions. I think we have to finish what we started regardless (that's the only honorable way to end it at this point), but if we want to cease being hated around the world, we better be certain that we leave Iraq in Iraqi hands, not American hands.
quote:
Originally posted by MADDOG 20/20:
PBA: You are an intelligent person and I agree with all you said. Since it's Sunday, will bark out an AMEN (that should make Kindred and Joy happy) THE DOG


YAY Dog!!! Great job!!!!

Especially since REFLECTING thinks that I am you, .... hahahahaha

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