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With the modern technological advances in weather/hurricane forecasting, including advanced doppler radar systems, satellites, etc., the people or New Orleans had good and sufficient warning of the impending disaster. I was sitting here watching it in North Alabama and I had no doubt about what was going to happen. However, Mayor Ray Nagin, the man who wants a chocolate city, sat on about two thousand busses and let them go under with his city. The first responsibility to save the people of N. O., belongs to the good mayor, then to the LA governor, but these people disavowed their responsibility and immediately blamed the federal government. The wisdom of building a city ten or eleven feet below sea level and then blaming someone else when it floods, speaks for itself. Rebuilding it below sea level is even dumber.
quote:
Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:
I give up. LOL...I feel like I am discussing race with people from 1900.


No. What it boils down to is that you have no ammo in your gun to debate the topic. So, as every liberal I have ever known does, you have descended to name calling and insinuations. Debate like a civilized person or go away...
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:
I give up. LOL...I feel like I am discussing race with people from 1900.


No. What it boils down to is that you have no ammo in your gun to debate the topic. So, as every liberal I have ever known does, you have descended to name calling and insinuations. Debate like a civilized person or go away...


Oh the points are being made well, but when you have narrowminded, uneducated people you are trying to debate with it certainly makes it hard to get down to that level and make a break through.........Oh well, I tried........Smiler
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fineazell1:

So when you think about a Government that FAILED, think about who was in charge BEFORE the people of N.O. were mistreated.
It wasn't "WHITE AMERICA" that failed the people of N.O. It was the People of N.O. that failed.
QUOTE]

That is the point right there. There shouldnt be a White America and a Black America. We are America. When black soldiers defend your a** its ALL for One........I am not blaming white people for Katrina. Bush is a bad, very bad, terrible President, but it has nothing to do with him being white, just as Katrina has nothing to do with the people that DIED being black.
quote:
It was the People of N.O. that failed.



Right...and they just happen to be a particular color.


The Jenna six just happen to be a particular color. The Rodney King riots...the people just happen to be a particular color.

Beginning to see a patern here? All these things involved large groups of people acting simply because of their color.

Take the California fires...where was all the gov. help? Why weren't the white people taking to the streets? Its because they can take care of theirselves, no overseer needed.
quote:
Originally posted by Invex:
quote:
It was the People of N.O. that failed.



Right...and they just happen to be a particular color.


The Jenna six just happen to be a particular color. The Rodney King riots...the people just happen to be a particular color.

Beginning to see a patern here? All these things involved large groups of people acting simply because of their color.

Take the California fires...where was all the gov. help? Why weren't the white people taking to the streets? Its because they can take care of theirselves, no overseer needed.


Im sorry but thats just about the most pitiful thing I have ever heard. You cannot compare those fires in the RICHEST part of the state to N.O. I have a neighbor that is black. He lives in a house that is oh about 350,000/400,000. If you burned down his house today he would be able to recover (material not emotional) in oh about a month or two. The people of LA in some parishes were poor. Thats your difference. I am sorry you all are so anti poor.........sorry to inform you there are poor people of all races.
quote:
Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:
quote:
Originally posted by Invex:
quote:
It was the People of N.O. that failed.



Right...and they just happen to be a particular color.


The Jenna six just happen to be a particular color. The Rodney King riots...the people just happen to be a particular color.

Beginning to see a patern here? All these things involved large groups of people acting simply because of their color.

Take the California fires...where was all the gov. help? Why weren't the white people taking to the streets? Its because they can take care of theirselves, no overseer needed.


Im sorry but thats just about the most pitiful thing I have ever heard. You cannot compare those fires in the RICHEST part of the state to N.O. I have a neighbor that is black. He lives in a house that is oh about 350,000/400,000. If you burned down his house today he would be able to recover (material not emotional) in oh about a month or two. The people of LA in some parishes were poor. Thats your difference. I am sorry you all are so anti poor.........sorry to inform you there are poor people of all races.



Not just anti poor, ALSO anti redneck, anti tolerance, anti understanding, anti social and ANTI EVERYTHING.
quote:
Originally posted by SO TIRED OF IGNORANCE:
quote:
Originally posted by Invex:
quote:
It was the People of N.O. that failed.



Right...and they just happen to be a particular color.


The Jenna six just happen to be a particular color. The Rodney King riots...the people just happen to be a particular color.

Beginning to see a patern here? All these things involved large groups of people acting simply because of their color.

Take the California fires...where was all the gov. help? Why weren't the white people taking to the streets? Its because they can take care of theirselves, no overseer needed.


Im sorry but thats just about the most pitiful thing I have ever heard. You cannot compare those fires in the RICHEST part of the state to N.O. I have a neighbor that is black. He lives in a house that is oh about 350,000/400,000. If you burned down his house today he would be able to recover (material not emotional) in oh about a month or two. The people of LA in some parishes were poor. Thats your difference. I am sorry you all are so anti poor.........sorry to inform you there are poor people of all races.


Again,this has nothing to do with economics. There were poor people there, who, when they were informed as to what was happening, made arrangements to move to safety. They did not sit there and wait for someone to move for them. They did not wait on Uncle Sam to 'help' them. I don't know about everyone else here, but I am speaking of the same people that the original post is about. The people who have a welfare mentality. The people who were waiting behind to see what they could loot from their neighbors(don't say it didn't happen, it was right there for all of us to see). Thinking, responsible people, take care of themselves. Our govenment, and other bleeding hearts, have created these parasites, who will not take care of themselves. There have been literally billions of dollars thrown at this problem. I dare say, the ones who yelled the loudest are the same ones who still need more and more help. Look at the ones who were given the cards to take care of their needs. Remind me what they did with that? Oh yes, squandered it to the four winds. Blew it on every kind of foolishness. I would imagine that they still don't have anything. Poor babies. If these were your grown children, would you continue to throw money at them and 'help' them? I don't care what color their skin is, we need to draw the line somewhere and I think this writer recognizes this and is saying so...to which, I say, "Amen"!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Invex:
quote:
Thats your difference. I am sorry you all are so anti poor.........sorry to inform you there are poor people of all races.




Of course there is. But...why is we only hear a big fuss when its always that one particular race?


Your gonna hear a big fuss from me if you look down on ANY race of people, women, children, handicap or anyone that is not mainstream white male America.
I'm sure that a number of people didn't leave because they had been faced with the threat of a hurricane before. It just seems that when they saw on their screens how massive Katrina was and you have the weather professionals saying "get the he!! out" that you would make an attempt to leave. It was a recommendation to leave because it was going to be a little windy, it was a very strong warning that there would be terrible consequences for staying.

It doesn't matter what color the majority was, they chose to continue the welfare mentality and hang out to see what was in it for them.

It seems that So Tired, in defense of the NOLA population, has resorted to insult so I am curious as to So Tired's opinion of NOLA looting, rape, murder, and ransacking of the Superdome. Who is at fault there? I agree, it isn't because they are black. Race doesn't have anything to do with it. There are good and bad apples in every bunch. However, the welfare mentality of this particular group of citizens is pretty extreme.

Is it wrong for people of like race to encourage their race to act better and stop making the good look bad? I don't think so. IMO, it's taking the bull by the horns and pointing it in the right direction.
quote:
Originally posted by Invex:
quote:
Your gonna hear a big fuss from me if you look down on ANY race of people, women, children, handicap or anyone that is not mainstream white male America.




So you think it is ok to look down on white males?


LOL.....yes, all of my exes anyway....LOL.......No, but I would put money on it that you are a healthy white, red blooded American conservative..or married to one.....??? Im right arent I
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
So Tired, you said there should not be Black America and White America, we are all Americans...I couldn't agree with you more, now, why is again you refer to yourselves as AFRICAN-AMERICAN?? Did you think we wouldn't notice without the African continent being acknwledged?


LOL..........I am a white woman so I dont refer to myself as anything.........I do however respect the right of every American regardless of skin color. The original post could have been written in the same language without inserting race and I would not have a problem with it. But, we seem to interject black or mexican in every issue we have............thats just wrong.
If the majority of people causing all the fuss and demanding that the government provide for them in N.O. and all over the country were white males, we would be having the same conversation about them. If they were all purple monkeys, we would be having the same conversation about them. The point is that there are common factors that should not be ignored, no matter how bad you don't like it. As I stated previously ignoring it doesn't change the facts. You criticize people for not being educated, or being insensitive, or whatever simply for stating the facts. We can't help it that you would like to overlook certain facts that may not please you or your cause.

Anyway, if these people don't want the rest of the country focusing on them and discussing their situation, they should either A)not get in the situation to start with, or B) take care of the themselves rather than relying on the government for everything, then complaining about the level of service they receive.

No one on the liberal side wants to discuss what the real issue is here anyway: the fact that we have a large number of people in this country who are making a way of life out of mooching off the government, i.e. the rest of us taxpayers. Whether black, white, or purple the major problem in N.O. was the attitude that someone else should take care of everything and that the government owes everyone something. It just happened to be that most of the people who suffered because of this attitude in N.O. were poor blacks. The author was simply pointing this out and saying that they need to get off their butts and quit making other blacks look bad. I happen to think he is right on the money, and anyone who encourages the victim mentality that got them in trouble to start with is only making the problem worse.

And So Tire, if you enjoy saying that the rest of us are uneducated, or living in 1900, or whatever simply because we don't believe anyone is above reproach or deserves special treatment because of race, well keep it up; you're only making yourself look uneducated. The fact that you clearly believe some people should receive special considerations shows that you are not as unbiased as you claim to be--actually you must be rather reverse biased as you seem to have some ill-will toward educated, successful, white males. And as interventor said, you are clearly out of logical points to make if you must resort to calling names and making assumptions about our ages, backgrounds, and education. I think you would be surprised to find what a broad cross-section of society we make up. But if you must sit on your ideological high-horse and choose to believe that you are somehow more enlightened than the rest of us because you and many other liberals are still riding the political correctness train all the way off the proverbial cliff, then by all means be my guest. I prefer to stick to the facts no matter how unpleasant they may be.
quote:
Originally posted by lanmou95:
I'm sure that a number of people didn't leave because they had been faced with the threat of a hurricane before. It just seems that when they saw on their screens how massive Katrina was and you have the weather professionals saying "get the he!! out" that you would make an attempt to leave. It was a recommendation to leave because it was going to be a little windy, it was a very strong warning that there would be terrible consequences for staying.

It doesn't matter what color the majority was, they chose to continue the welfare mentality and hang out to see what was in it for them.

It seems that So Tired, in defense of the NOLA population, has resorted to insult so I am curious as to So Tired's opinion of NOLA looting, rape, murder, and ransacking of the Superdome. Who is at fault there? I agree, it isn't because they are black. Race doesn't have anything to do with it. There are good and bad apples in every bunch. However, the welfare mentality of this particular group of citizens is pretty extreme.

Is it wrong for people of like race to encourage their race to act better and stop making the good look bad? I don't think so. IMO, it's taking the bull by the horns and pointing it in the right direction.



I think what bothers me most here about this Post is the lack of TOLERANCE that mankind is supposed to have for mankind. We are sorely lacking here on TD Forums.

I agree with what you are saying here, they had rode out so many Hurricane's in the past, that "What's one more??" That is the MINDSET of the vast majority of RICH WHITE CULTURE in Florida, by the way.

Then when Katrina started, and they SAW the severity there could have been many reasons for not getting out in time.

One could have been lack of time for THINKING the wrong thing. HAS ANYONE ON HERE EVER THOUGHT THE WRONG THING??? I know I certainly have.

Another could be the TRANSPORTATION problems a lot of (especially younger) group faced. Some that were in school and worked didn't even own a vehicle, they walked everywhere they went. EVER BEEN WITHOUT TRANSPORTATION???? Yep, Ihave.

Another could be resources, lack of money, lack of anywhere TO go. EVER BEEN WITHOUT RESOURCES???? Again, yes I have.

Doesn't anyone CARE that the degradation of the HUMAN BEINGS in New Orleans that has been said here could be WRONG, but sadly most are dead so we can't ask them.

I thank God every night that I am where I am in my life, because but for His Grace, there go I.

Someday Karma may take hold of some people to get them to understand and love their fellow human being without looking at race, religion or walk of life.

To me, that would be Heaven.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred:
quote:
Originally posted by lanmou95:
I'm sure that a number of people didn't leave because they had been faced with the threat of a hurricane before. It just seems that when they saw on their screens how massive Katrina was and you have the weather professionals saying "get the he!! out" that you would make an attempt to leave. It was a recommendation to leave because it was going to be a little windy, it was a very strong warning that there would be terrible consequences for staying.

It doesn't matter what color the majority was, they chose to continue the welfare mentality and hang out to see what was in it for them.

It seems that So Tired, in defense of the NOLA population, has resorted to insult so I am curious as to So Tired's opinion of NOLA looting, rape, murder, and ransacking of the Superdome. Who is at fault there? I agree, it isn't because they are black. Race doesn't have anything to do with it. There are good and bad apples in every bunch. However, the welfare mentality of this particular group of citizens is pretty extreme.

Is it wrong for people of like race to encourage their race to act better and stop making the good look bad? I don't think so. IMO, it's taking the bull by the horns and pointing it in the right direction.



I think what bothers me most here about this Post is the lack of TOLERANCE that mankind is supposed to have for mankind. We are sorely lacking here on TD Forums.

I agree with what you are saying here, they had rode out so many Hurricane's in the past, that "What's one more??" That is the MINDSET of the vast majority of RICH WHITE CULTURE in Florida, by the way.

Then when Katrina started, and they SAW the severity there could have been many reasons for not getting out in time.

One could have been lack of time for THINKING the wrong thing. HAS ANYONE ON HERE EVER THOUGHT THE WRONG THING??? I know I certainly have.

Another could be the TRANSPORTATION problems a lot of (especially younger) group faced. Some that were in school and worked didn't even own a vehicle, they walked everywhere they went. EVER BEEN WITHOUT TRANSPORTATION???? Yep, Ihave.

Another could be resources, lack of money, lack of anywhere TO go. EVER BEEN WITHOUT RESOURCES???? Again, yes I have.

Doesn't anyone CARE that the degradation of the HUMAN BEINGS in New Orleans that has been said here could be WRONG, but sadly most are dead so we can't ask them.

I thank God every night that I am where I am in my life, because but for His Grace, there go I.

Someday Karma may take hold of some people to get them to understand and love their fellow human being without looking at race, religion or walk of life.

To me, that would be Heaven.


Beautifully said.

When I get to Heaven, I want to know to say I err on the side of caution

I do not want to judge anyone that is in devestating circumstances. I will help anyway I can and let the rough end drag. If someone I help or look upon with sympathy is dishonest and doesnt deserve it then - - That is between them and God. I especailly dont want to associate it with the skin they have that God himself made.
I understand what you are saying Kindred, and I agree with you to a point. But my case here is that you have to draw the line somewhere, and many of these people who were "victims" in this case should have had the line drawn a long time ago. I can be as kind-hearted and giving as anyone, but if I try to help everyone who is in need in the world, I will soon be in the same shape they are, and that does not serve anyone well. All I'm saying is that there is a matter of practicality here that must be considered. The type of people the article refers to have made a way of life out of doing nothing, living off the government, and having things given to them that they do not deserve. Then they have the nerve to say the government failed them? What did ever they contribute to the government? Why do they feel they are entitled to anything? And as far as the politicians go that try to blame the situation on the federal government, Bush, or whoever else, they are only furthering the victim mentality that these people have developed and seem to so enjoy.

I'll be the first to help someone who is attempting to help themselves, but I have serious issues with giving handouts to ungrateful people whose only aspiration is too get more from me. My concern is that the more we allow people to survive this way, the more people become willing to do so.

I understand where you are coming from and you seem to be a very compassionate person who I think is sincere. I just don't like it when some other people use the issue of compassion to distort or detract from real problem. Sometimes we need to look at things objectively, and I think it is unproductive that some people would rather play the race, religion, compassion, etc cards to end discussion or to change the subject than actually look at the problem in a logical manner. Again, I'm not talking about you Kindred; I'm talking about people who would love to ban this whole discussion and give certain groups special priviledges to be as lazy, dumb, crooked, or whatever as they would like with no consequences.

I think we all tend to be compassionate first, and practical second--it's human nature. We all want to help when we see someone in need, but there are many, many, many people out there who count on just that. And their numbers are growing with every handout they receive. There used to be a time when people would not take charity, and many of these people might well not take it from a friend. But they gladly accept handouts from Uncle Sam for food, utilities, housing, medical care, education, etc without shame. If we don't find a way to turn this phenomenon around, their numbers are going to keep growing. And I think that the author of the article was trying to convey that sentiment--that people need to quit accepting handouts, take care of themselves and their families, and try to better themselves. It just so happens that most of the people in that shape in N.O. during Katrina were poor and black so that is who he is focusing on--he is focusing on the problem area. And I just feel like the only way to turn things around is to make people take care of themselves, and we can't do that by helping everyone. Most will just keep taking advantage of it.
Originally posted by Kindred:


quote:
I think what bothers me most here about this Post is the lack of TOLERANCE that mankind is supposed to have for mankind. We are sorely lacking here on TD Forums.

I agree with what you are saying here, they had rode out so many Hurricane's in the past, that "What's one more??" That is the MINDSET of the vast majority of RICH WHITE CULTURE in Florida, by the way.

Then when Katrina started, and they SAW the severity there could have been many reasons for not getting out in time.

One could have been lack of time for THINKING the wrong thing. HAS ANYONE ON HERE EVER THOUGHT THE WRONG THING??? I know I certainly have.

Another could be the TRANSPORTATION problems a lot of (especially younger) group faced. Some that were in school and worked didn't even own a vehicle, they walked everywhere they went. EVER BEEN WITHOUT TRANSPORTATION???? Yep, Ihave.

Another could be resources, lack of money, lack of anywhere TO go. EVER BEEN WITHOUT RESOURCES???? Again, yes I have.

Doesn't anyone CARE that the degradation of the HUMAN BEINGS in New Orleans that has been said here could be WRONG, but sadly most are dead so we can't ask them.

I thank God every night that I am where I am in my life, because but for His Grace, there go I.

Someday Karma may take hold of some people to get them to understand and love their fellow human being without looking at race, religion or walk of life.

To me, that would be Heaven.



I guess that goes for everyone EXCEPT the Mexicans huh?


Originally posted by Kindred on the Illegal Mexican thread.



"Kindred
Hall of Famer

Posted 26 August 2007 01:40 PM Hide Post
quote:



I find his act OFFENSIVE, and I also find him being called a resident ANYWHERE in the USA offensive.

He is ILLEGAL, so I can't envision him even being classified a resident of Franklin County.

He dodged the LAW in Franklin County is what he did.

People like this is a thorn in all of our sides. Something is going to have to be done, they are actually winning most of the battles that are going into the political arena now.

Pretty soon, the way things are going, even us oldsters will have to go back to school to learn to speak fluent Spanish. "
Last edited by Invex
quote:
Originally posted by aubfire1:
I understand what you are saying Kindred, and I agree with you to a point. But my case here is that you have to draw the line somewhere, and many of these people who were "victims" in this case should have had the line drawn a long time ago. I can be as kind-hearted and giving as anyone, but if I try to help everyone who is in need in the world, I will soon be in the same shape they are, and that does not serve anyone well. All I'm saying is that there is a matter of practicality here that must be considered. The type of people the article refers to have made a way of life out of doing nothing, living off the government, and having things given to them that they do not deserve. Then they have the nerve to say the government failed them? What did ever they contribute to the government? Why do they feel they are entitled to anything? And as far as the politicians go that try to blame the situation on the federal government, Bush, or whoever else, they are only furthering the victim mentality that these people have developed and seem to so enjoy.

I'll be the first to help someone who is attempting to help themselves, but I have serious issues with giving handouts to ungrateful people whose only aspiration is too get more from me. My concern is that the more we allow people to survive this way, the more people become willing to do so.

I understand where you are coming from and you seem to be a very compassionate person who I think is sincere. I just don't like it when some other people use the issue of compassion to distort or detract from real problem. Sometimes we need to look at things objectively, and I think it is unproductive that some people would rather play the race, religion, compassion, etc cards to end discussion or to change the subject than actually look at the problem in a logical manner. Again, I'm not talking about you Kindred; I'm talking about people who would love to ban this whole discussion and give certain groups special priviledges to be as lazy, dumb, crooked, or whatever as they would like with no consequences.

I think we all tend to be compassionate first, and practical second--it's human nature. We all want to help when we see someone in need, but there are many, many, many people out there who count on just that. And their numbers are growing with every handout they receive. There used to be a time when people would not take charity, and many of these people might well not take it from a friend. But they gladly accept handouts from Uncle Sam for food, utilities, housing, medical care, education, etc without shame. If we don't find a way to turn this phenomenon around, their numbers are going to keep growing. And I think that the author of the article was trying to convey that sentiment--that people need to quit accepting handouts, take care of themselves and their families, and try to better themselves. It just so happens that most of the people in that shape in N.O. during Katrina were poor and black so that is who he is focusing on--he is focusing on the problem area. And I just feel like the only way to turn things around is to make people take care of themselves, and we can't do that by helping everyone. Most will just keep taking advantage of it.


I agree with every word. I am not cold hearted, and will go out of my way, to help anyone in true need (and there are some). But, I have learned over time...if people are working, taking care of their business, there are very few that truly need help. There are a few elderly, sick, handicapped. These are the ones our govenment agencies were put into place to help. The problem is, whole generations and communities of people have been conditioned to whine and beg, and be paracites.

The majority of the people, that were in the forefont of the news from New Orleans, were able bodied. They could have helped themselves. The ones we saw looting everything that was not nailed down, sure seemed to be able to help themselves. Sad thing, they were able to carry tv sets out, over their heads, in really deep water, but they were too disabled to work and care for themselves.

Again, this bleeding heart attitude needs to stop. Children are not taught, teens do not respect adults, adults do not respect themselves. It is not a racial thing. I see it across the board, black and white. I work with a white female(hard to call her a lady) who parties away her money and asks churches to pay her utilties. I have no respect for her. I work with another female who gets her childrens school supplies from churches and every other hand out available...yet, she and her family have more 'stuff' and 'vacations' and 'entertainment' than any of the rest of us, because we pay our own way. I don't respect her either, or her 'disabled' husband. By the way, I know for a fact that they both work, when they want to, for cash...so they can keep getting everything handed to them. Don't tell me to report them. They have been reported, but it must be ok.

While this situation was spotlighted and magnified because of Katrina, it is a nationwide problem. There were a few victims in New Orleans, but if the deadbeats there had been responsible, they could have helped themselves and helped their neighbors, who truly needed help.
quote:
Originally posted by _Joy_:
I won't go into what I think about abuse of the system past this...there has been plenty of it & if caught they should be prosecuted. I will tell you what a lady from Pass Christian that I met while on vacation had to say.

Most importantly, she said that if you leave your home unwatched that looters will rob you blind and damage what's left after a hurricane.

Second, she said that they've been told they are in danger by a hurricane so many times and then it turns out to be a false alarm that they no longer listen - they can't run for the hills every time.

However, she did say that she would never stay again. They survived but were terrified. She still has nightmares.

So, it's easy for us to judge from North Alabama, but how many times have you ignored a tornado warning?

Now do I think New Orleans should be rebuilt? Not if it comes out of my pocket. I know it is their home and I know it would be painful to let go of it, but there is life after relocation and it can be great. Don't rebuild something that's proven to be dangerous. Why would you place your loved ones in danger again knowing what can happen? JMHO


I just thought I'd point out that the lady I spoke of above is white. Many of those that ignored the warning were white, not black. Pass Christian was pretty much wiped out. The only reason this is a racial issue at all is New Orleans' loony mayor and his chocolate city statement. Of course, it's not a racial issue...that's just silly.
Joy, there has already been enough money and building materials sent down there to rebuild that place a few times. Think back to when this first happened. There were more people going down there and taking 'stuff' by the truckload, than could get in. There were money drives daily. The govenment set aside billions. Again, I just think it is irresponsible to keep throwing money at a problem.
If these people knew what it meant to really do without, they would appreciate what they have and what has been done for them.
I have to stress again, I am not speaking about all of New Orleans. I know that there are many good, loving, and responsible people there. I am speaking only of the thousands of deadbeats that stand with their hands out. Be they white, black, or purple.

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