Hi Con/Beter,

 

Since you are quoting from a Reform Theology web site -- are we to assume that you are also Calvinist?  If so, how do you know YOU are part of the Elect who will be saved?

 

For those not familiar with Reform/Calvinist theology -- they teach that before the Creation God chose who would be part of the Elect, i.e., saved and going to heaven -- and who would be part of the Reprobate, i.e., condemned to an eternity in hell.  Now, according to Calvinist teachings -- this was done before the heavens and earth were created, before Adam and Eve were created, and long before ANY of us were created in our mother's wombs.

 

Therefore, since this was done before we were conceived or born -- there is nothing any of us can do to become Christian believers.  If before the Creation, God decided that Bill was going to hell, there is no changing that.  If before the Creation, God decided that Beter was going to hell, there is no changing that.  If before the Creation, God decided that Deep, Uno, Jennifer, Chick, et al, are going to be Christian believers and spend eternity in heaven with God -- there is nothing any of them can do to change that.

 

But, I always have one question that no Calvinist has been able to answer yet:  "How do you know that YOU were chosen to be among the saved Elect -- if God made that decision before the Creation?  Did He give you a personal revelation telling you that you were chosen?"

 

If they tell me, "I just know that I am saved.  I feel it!" -- which is what most tell me; no, that cannot be. For Calvinists teach that there is NOTHING anyone can do that will affect his/her being among the Elect, i.e., being saved.  So, your knowing or feeling it -- would be something YOU have done and not what God did before the Creation.  So, it cannot be.

 

Can you see the hole that Calvinism has dug for itself?  Calvinists are adamant about their theology -- yet, not one of them knows if they are saved or not.  There is no way, other than a direct revelation from God, that they can know.   So, according to the Calvinist theology -- anyone who tells me, "I am Calvinist and I know I am saved" -- is saying that God gave him/her a personal revelation -- or they are just spitting into the wind.

 

So, Beter, since you choose to make this Reform Theology/Calvinist web site your champion -- does this mean that you are Calvinist?  Or, are you just grasping at straws?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi Con/Beter,

 

Since you are quoting from a Reform Theology web site -- are we to assume that you are also Calvinist?  If so, how do you know YOU are part of the Elect who will be saved?

 

For those not familiar with Reform/Calvinist theology -- they teach that before the Creation God chose who would be part of the Elect, i.e., saved and going to heaven -- and who would be part of the Reprobate, i.e., condemned to an eternity in hell.  Now, according to Calvinist teachings -- this was done before the heavens and earth were created, before Adam and Eve were created, and long before ANY of us were created in our mother's wombs.

 

Therefore, since this was done before we were conceived or born -- there is nothing any of us can do to become Christian believers.  If before the Creation, God decided that Bill was going to hell, there is no changing that.  If before the Creation, God decided that Beter was going to hell, there is no changing that.  If before the Creation, God decided that Deep, Uno, Jennifer, Chick, et al, are going to be Christian believers and spend eternity in heaven with God -- there is nothing any of them can do to change that.

 

But, I always have one question that no Calvinist has been able to answer yet:  "How do you know that YOU were chosen to be among the saved Elect -- if God made that decision before the Creation?  Did He give you a personal revelation telling you that you were chosen?"

 

If they tell me, "I just know that I am saved.  I feel it!" -- which is what most tell me; no, that cannot be. For Calvinists teach that there is NOTHING anyone can do that will affect his/her being among the Elect, i.e., being saved.  So, your knowing or feeling it -- would be something YOU have done and not what God did before the Creation.  So, it cannot be.

 

Can you see the hole that Calvinism has dug for itself?  Calvinists are adamant about their theology -- yet, not one of them knows if they are saved or not.  There is no way, other than a direct revelation from God, that they can know.   So, according to the Calvinist theology -- anyone who tells me, "I am Calvinist and I know I am saved" -- is saying that God gave him/her a personal revelation -- or they are just spitting into the wind.

 

So, Beter, since you choose to make this Reform Theology/Calvinist web site your champion -- does this mean that you are Calvinist?  Or, are you just grasping at straws?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

0 - CROSS-BIBLE_SAID-IT-1c

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Bill, as you well know--or should know if you have been paying any kind of attention at all--I am, if anything, far less "Calvinist" than YOU are, what with your championing of the heretical Calvinistic "once saved--always saved" doctrine.  But I realize that paying attention is not your strong suit.

 

My citing a discussion on a Reformed web site by no means signifies that I am to any degree a Calvinist.  It is irrational for you to even suggest such a thing. The piece I cited just happened to be an excellent refutation of premillennialism, whatever may be the convictions of its author relative to the so-called (and misnamed) "Doctrines of Grace" (as the Calvinists euphemistically call their perverse and heretical doctrine). I believe that one should embrace truth wherever one finds it, contrary to your demonstrated practice of ignoring or cheaply and gratuitously ridiculing sources that powerfully dispute your pet beliefs and serving up those that issue from your pet theologians (e.g. Pastor Chuck ) out there in your adopted state.

 

So, Bill, I do not need your explication of the errors of Calvinism, since I myself reject them, as I have repeatedly set forth in these forums.  Therefore, you can now dismantle the straw man/ red herring claptrap you have put up in your irrelevant response to my post.  Instead, you should consider addressing some of the powerful anti-premillennialist arguments so cogently set forth in the link I provided.

 

But I am not holding my breath on that, Bill, given your past track record of evasiveness.

quote:   Originally Posted by lexum:

Bill contendah and firenzitus are C0C. They are nor Calvinists. Quit saying that. OK?


Hi Lex,

 

If I bring you a book on how to make corn liquor -- you must assume that I like corn liquor or why would I have interest enough to bring you the book?

 

And, if someone brings me a book on Calvinist theology -- I have to assume that this person follows the Calvinist teaching -- right?   Makes sense to me!

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?   Bless his heart!

 

Bill

1 - Snoopy_Running

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by lexum:

Bill contendah and firenzitus are C0C. They are nor Calvinists. Quit saying that. OK?


Hi Lex,

 

If I bring you a book on how to make corn liquor -- you must assume that I like corn liquor or why would I have interest enough to bring you the book?

 

And, if someone brings me a book on Calvinist theology -- I have to assume that this person follows the Calvinist teaching -- right?   Makes sense to me!

 

Y'all come back now, ya heah?   Bless his heart!

 

Bill

1 - Snoopy_Running

****

 

Fortunately for the rest of us, Bill, that which "makes sense" to you is decidedly not the standard for what actually makes sense in the real world.

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