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31 replies

abortion and adoption

barbaros45barbaros45Hall of Famer
Why has there never been some kind of open discussion about connecting the two....say put a phone in the abortion clinic with a direct line to the adoption agency....I don't understand why it takes so **** long to adopt a child....I've heard horror stories of waiting 5 years and spending thousands of dollars...someone give me a logical answer.
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LG Lets Go Jeepin'Hall of Famer
Probably because the people who want to have an abortion do so because they dont want the responsibility that not only comes along with the birth of the child, but the pregnancy itself. You see, to give a child up for adoption, you have to carry it to term, which means no partying for 9 months, shouldnt smoke, you get big as a house (doesnt look good in a two piece), you have to eat for two and live for two.

While there are valid reasons for abortions (rape, incest, medical necessity), I think it has become the new 'pill' for some folks and that is unacceptable. I dont think the majority of those folks would be willing to carry to term just to allow the baby to be adopted.

Release the flaming hounds!

Jeepin'
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
Probably because the people who want to have an abortion do so because they dont want the responsibility that not only comes along with the birth of the child, but the pregnancy itself. You see, to give a child up for adoption, you have to carry it to term, which means no partying for 9 months, shouldnt smoke, you get big as a house (doesnt look good in a two piece), you have to eat for two and live for two.

While there are valid reasons for abortions (rape, incest, medical necessity), I think it has become the new 'pill' for some folks and that is unacceptable. I dont think the majority of those folks would be willing to carry to term just to allow the baby to be adopted.

Release the flaming hounds!

Jeepin'


I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the new pill, "the pill" is a lot cheaper and a lot less hassel than I would think abortion is.
And while we are at it, happy birthday "Pill".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DcdONaKSQM

I have long thought that these people who make a big thing of abortion protest etc. should be proactive . Rather than harrass the girls at the centers, why not arrive with a contract that says "if you will not have the abortion, I will pay all your maternity cost, and upon delivery of the baby, I will take that baby for adoption and you will have no further responsibilities".
Seems to me, if these anti-abortion nuts would do that , they would have credibility, otherwise they are just plain hypocrites.
semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the new pill, "the pill" is a lot cheaper and a lot less hassel than I would think abortion is.

a contract that says "if you will not have the abortion, I will pay all your maternity cost, and upon delivery of the baby, I will take that baby for adoption and you will have no further responsibilities".


But it is the "new pill". When the actual pill doesn't work or Missy forgets to take it for a few days, abortion is her next step.
As for the contract you mentioned, these girls don't want Mommy & Daddy or her husband to find out.
Or doesn't want the responsibilty to carry a child. In Missy's eyes, it's much easier to kill it.
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the new pill, "the pill" is a lot cheaper and a lot less hassel than I would think abortion is.

a contract that says "if you will not have the abortion, I will pay all your maternity cost, and upon delivery of the baby, I will take that baby for adoption and you will have no further responsibilities".


But it is the "new pill". When the actual pill doesn't work or Missy forgets to take it for a few days, abortion is her next step.
As for the contract you mentioned, these girls don't want Mommy & Daddy or her husband to find out.
Or doesn't want the responsibilty to carry a child. In Missy's eyes, it's much easier to kill it.

I believe if you check , the majority of early term women seeking an abortion do so because they cannot handle the financial burden. Here is a pretty good breakdown .
http://women.webmd.com/tc/abor...omen-choose-abortion
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by semiannualchick:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the new pill, "the pill" is a lot cheaper and a lot less hassel than I would think abortion is.

a contract that says "if you will not have the abortion, I will pay all your maternity cost, and upon delivery of the baby, I will take that baby for adoption and you will have no further responsibilities".


But it is the "new pill". When the actual pill doesn't work or Missy forgets to take it for a few days, abortion is her next step.
As for the contract you mentioned, these girls don't want Mommy & Daddy or her husband to find out.
Or doesn't want the responsibilty to carry a child. In Missy's eyes, it's much easier to kill it.

I believe if you check , the majority of early term women seeking an abortion do so because they cannot handle the financial burden, rape/incest, or major medical problems with the fetus. Here is a pretty good breakdown .
http://women.webmd.com/tc/abor...omen-choose-abortion

Not exactly as you depicted.
semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
Read your link. It didn't say the majority of women seeking an abortion do so because they cannot handle the financial burden, etc. It said the most common reason.
It did say that over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method that failed during the month they became pregnant.
I found it sad that the link stated that "About 60% of women under age 18 who have an abortion have a parent who knows of the abortion, and the majority of these parents support their daughters' decisions".
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
Whatever ! At any rate, what does it matter what the reason is. I think the statement you made is very judgmental. What should "missie" do or should have done ?
On the other hand, what does any of it matter as to the point I originally made, that these girls are looking for a way out, and instead of being judgmental as to the why, people opposed to abortion have a means to give them a way out -
to take care of the medical bills and the baby once it is delivered. Seems that is a win- win - the anti-abortion person gets their wish, and the girl gets a way out. Who looses in that situation ?
Basically, I don't believe these nuts should be outside clinics shouting, or preaching. In the end, that will only bring about violence and no good. For the same reason, I don't believe this should be more than a private issue, not religious and certainty not a political one.

They should be part of the solution, and not be THE problem, or at least make the problem worse.
LG Lets Go Jeepin'Hall of Famer
quote:

It did say that over half of all women who have an abortion used a contraceptive method that failed during the month they became pregnant.


Did I miss it, or did they not define 'failed' in regards to the contraceptive? I would not be at all surprised if 'failed' meant something along the lines of 'I missed a day or two' in some of those cases. Ohh, and btw, there is much less chance of two methods failing (the guy uses protection and the girl takes the pill or some other method.) And yes, it is the guys fault as well, dont think I am letting any of my side off the hook regarding unplanned pregnancies.

OK, taking the place of the pill was a stretch, but you have to admit that it has become an acceptable backup plan to many. While I cant make that choice for other folks, or judge them for those choices and mistakes, I can stand up for what I believe. And I believe it is wrong.

I do agree that, if an abortion is going to take place, there should be mandatory counciling before the abortion happens. These women should be told up front about the mental effects that it will more than likely have on them down the road.

Jeepin'
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
I don't want to be mis-understood that I am Pro Abortion. I certainty am not!
I am just so tired of a group of people who think it is ok to stick their judgmental noses in other peoples personal business.
I know, that if my wife were to become pregnant, and that the fetus had a slim to no chance of developing normally (remember , one of the reasons given) , I believe we should have the choice of how to deal with it. We would have to weigh the options of whether we are willing , at our age, to deal with a child who may never be able to become normal, and at our age, is it right to impose such a situation on our grown healthy children should we die.
I don't know what we would do, but I think it is just wrong for a bunch of self righteous hypocrites to think it is their business as to how we should handle the situation. Are they going to come running to volunteer to baby sit so we can have some real life, are they going to volunteer to take care of a child once we are dead, or as Jimmy Stewart put it so eloquently in the movie Shenandoah , are they going to come running with a spare tit to help feed the child.
You know the answer is no, none of that- at least over the long range, so why should some TV preacher, or even the government decide to step in and deny that decision.
Most of all , I am sick and tired of abortion being used as a political wedge issue.
Get the government out of our personal lives, and move on.
LG Lets Go Jeepin'Hall of Famer
I think you will find the majority of folks that are against abortion feel as I do. There are medical reasons that are justifiable, there are personal reasons that are justifiable. Then there are the 'other' reasons. Its those reasons that drive the majority of people to speak out against abortion.

It would be interesting to see statistics on the percentage of abortions that are done outside of the 'medical necessity' or 'moral necessity' reasons. I would be willing to bet that the number that are neither would be staggering....
semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
Whatever ! At any rate, what does it matter what the reason is. I think the statement you made is very judgmental. What should "missie" do or should have done ?
On the other hand, what does any of it matter as to the point I originally made, that these girls are looking for a way out, and instead of being judgmental as to the why, people opposed to abortion have a means to give them a way out -
to take care of the medical bills and the baby once it is delivered. Seems that is a win- win - the anti-abortion person gets their wish, and the girl gets a way out. Who looses in that situation ?
Basically, I don't believe these nuts should be outside clinics shouting, or preaching. In the end, that will only bring about violence and no good. For the same reason, I don't believe this should be more than a private issue, not religious and certainty not a political one.

They should be part of the solution, and not be THE problem, or at least make the problem worse.


Whatever? What does it matter what the reason is? If you’re going to post a link, at least get your quote correct.
Where was I being judgmental? What should "missie" do or should have done? She could have kept her panties on or used birth control pills, & not missed any. I’m sure that the majority of these girls that are getting abortions would not want 9 months of carrying a baby to interfere with their “play time”.
BTW, I didn’t mention anything about a religious or political issue.
I’m out of here…..leaving for a weeks vacation in the morning. Big Grin
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
I think you will find the majority of folks that are against abortion feel as I do. There are medical reasons that are justifiable, there are personal reasons that are justifiable. Then there are the 'other' reasons. Its those reasons that drive the majority of people to speak out against abortion. It would be interesting to see statistics on the percentage of abortions that are done outside of the 'medical necessity' or 'moral necessity' reasons. I would be willing to bet that the number that are neither would be staggering....

Hi Jeepin,

From reports I have given before in Forum articles, and other articles, I have written:

Basically, there are four reasons for abortion: Rape, Incest, Mother's Health, and Not Convenient.

Rape and incest represent less than 1% of all abortions in America.

Mother's health represents less than 2% of all abortions in America.

The other 97+ percent of abortions in America -- 1.26+ MILLION -- fall into the "Not Convenient" category. I wonder if the babies could vote -- in they would consider themselves "not convenient"?

Today, I Googled "Reasons for abortions." And, this is what I found today:

Reasons Given For Having Abortions In The United States by Wm. Robert Johnston, last updated 9 October 2008 http://www.johnstonsarchive.ne...rtion/abreasons.html

In the final summation: REASONS FOR ABORTIONS: COMPILED ESTIMATES the numbers are even more disturbing

This gives the following results:

Rape: .3% -- 3/10th of one percent attributed to rape.

Incest: .03% -- 3/100th of one percent due to incest.

Mother's Health: 1.2%

Personal Choice: 98% -- 98% or 1.274+ MILLION babies died via abortion because they were NOT CONVENIENT!

Now, could those 1.274+ MILLION babies have been adopted? I don't know; but, if we as a nation put our money into providing adoptions -- as enthusiastically as we do in funding abortions to kill babies -- a big percentage of them could be put into happy homes and lead productive lives.

When you consider that, since 1973 over 50 MILLION babies have died through abortion -- that is a bigger number than the population of many states. That is infanticide! And, if any of those babies could have been saved through adoption -- and were not; then we have failed them.

There has to be a better solution -- better than killing over 1.3 MILLION babies a year for convenience, in America alone.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill
seeweedseeweedOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':
I think you will find the majority of folks that are against abortion feel as I do. There are medical reasons that are justifiable, there are personal reasons that are justifiable. Then there are the 'other' reasons. Its those reasons that drive the majority of people to speak out against abortion. It would be interesting to see statistics on the percentage of abortions that are done outside of the 'medical necessity' or 'moral necessity' reasons. I would be willing to bet that the number that are neither would be staggering....

Hi Jeepin,

From reports I have given before in Forum articles, and other articles, I have written:

Basically, there are four reasons for abortion: Rape, Incest, Mother's Health, and Not Convenient.

Rape and incest represent less than 1% of all abortions in America.

Mother's health represents less than 2% of all abortions in America.

The other 97+ percent of abortions in America -- 1.26+ MILLION -- fall into the "Not Convenient" category. I wonder if the babies could vote -- in they would consider themselves "not convenient"?

Today, I Googled "Reasons for abortions." And, this is what I found today:

Reasons Given For Having Abortions In The United States by Wm. Robert Johnston, last updated 9 October 2008 http://www.johnstonsarchive.ne...rtion/abreasons.html

In the final summation: REASONS FOR ABORTIONS: COMPILED ESTIMATES the numbers are even more disturbing

This gives the following results:

Rape: .3% -- 3/10th of one percent attributed to rape.

Incest: .03% -- 3/100th of one percent due to incest.

Mother's Health: 1.2%

Personal Choice: 98% -- 98% or 1.274+ MILLION babies died via abortion because they were NOT CONVENIENT!

Now, could those 1.274+ MILLION babies have been adopted? I don't know; but, if we as a nation put our money into providing adoptions -- as enthusiastically as we do in funding abortions to kill babies -- a big percentage of them could be put into happy homes and lead productive lives.

When you consider that, since 1973 over 50 MILLION babies have died through abortion -- that is a bigger number than the population of many states. That is infanticide! And, if any of those babies could have been saved through adoption -- and were not; then we have failed them.

There has to be a better solution -- better than killing over 1.3 MILLION babies a year for convenience, in America alone.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Bill, have you ever showed up with a contract like I suggested, or do you just rail on being part of the problem and not part of the solution ?
big_black_catbig_black_catEverybody Knows My Name
Tomme, so it's all the girl's fault? At least Jeepin' said that the men/boys had a part in it, too.

I think it's really easy for a man to be anti-choice. Shoot, what do you have to lose? You get to have your fun and move on. A girl/woman gets to watch her body change in ways that are not all that nice in some respects and she gets aches and pains that the man will never know about.

I've never had an abortion but I've had friends that have. It was never an easy decision for them and it really took a toll on them afterward. I don't think MOST people see it as the new pill. It's too hard to be that.
Tomme73Tomme73Hall of Famer
Did I ever say it was all the girl's fault? No. However, the girl has the final say in whether that idiot boy gets to finish the job. "But, I love you." Bull butter!!! What he really meant to say is, "But, I love the fact that you have a vagina. I'm going to be really mad if you don't let me have sex with you and I'll pretend that my feelings are hurt and even cry if I have to. All I really want is to get into your pants and I couldn't care less how you feel about it."
LG Lets Go Jeepin'Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by barbaros45:
I originally began this thread to see if someone could answer the question...Why is it so difficult to adopt a child, not just here, but everywhere? Abortion takes no time, adoption could take years. If it [adoption] was made easier, do you thing there would be less abortions? [If there was better commuunication}


I think the numbers would move very, very little. A mother can already give her child up for adoption when its born, if that is her choice, with no wait at all. Last I checked they dont make a mother who gives her child up for adoption keep the baby until a home is found.

If anything, it would make the time a baby spends in foster care shorter, but I dont think it would affect the numbers of abortion, at least not enough to be seen in the statistics.

And, BTW, thanks to Bill Gray for confirming exactly what I already thought, that the abortion is a convenience issue. That just confirms for me that it is an acceptable back up plan for many people.

Anyone have any statistics on how many abortion decisions are made without the knowledge of the father to be?

Jeepin'
big_black_catbig_black_catEverybody Knows My Name
quote:
Originally posted by Tomme73:
Did I ever say it was all the girl's fault? No. However, the girl has the final say in whether that idiot boy gets to finish the job. "But, I love you." Bull butter!!! What he really meant to say is, "But, I love the fact that you have a vagina. I'm going to be really mad if you don't let me have sex with you and I'll pretend that my feelings are hurt and even cry if I have to. All I really want is to get into your pants and I couldn't care less how you feel about it."

Tomme, I don't want to fight with you because I generally agree with your politics (from what I've seen). But what saying that a woman who gives in to a manipulative man is at more fault is ridiculous. Why can't the man not be manipulative? And why imply the woman is stupid. There are two people there so two people get the blame.

Historically, the shame has mostly been put on the woman. Is that fair?
K KISSFREEK2002Hall of Famer
From what I have read just about everyone is against abortion, but these same people I wonder what they would think about a woman who decides to give her baby up for adoption. When I was in high school I had 2 friend who became pregnant one had an abortion and the other did the adoption. The one who had an abortion was talked about less than the one who gave the baby for adoption. She was talked about like a piece of scum, "how could she just give her baby away" Giving a baby for adoption is not encouraged by hardly anyone, it is almost discouraged with things such as "what would people think if you gave your baby away" I personally think that to give the baby to a loving family who is ready emotionally and financially is so much better than some 18 year old with 2 parents who have no job and do not consider the child any more than a hindrance at times.
barbaros45barbaros45Hall of Famer
Two teenage kids in a car...2nd or 3rd date...the boy has to try something for fear that he might be considered "gay".....the girl wears the fashion of the day which allows every sexual suggestion....am I wrong about this..has their morality pushed these kids to the point they feel like sex is the unalterable consequence of the male-female relationship...
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
I know a family that would love to have a baby and have tried to go through the adoption process. They have been turned down due to economics. In this country if you can't afford to pay a huge sum of money to lawyers, then you don't have a chance at adopting. I was poor as a church mouse when I had my first child and yet he never wanted for food, love or shelter. Maybe he didn't have all the newest toys and clothes and maybe he didn't go to private school, but he is now in college about to graduate with an engineering degree from Auburn.

I think there should be something done about the cost of adoption and that would probably help place more children with loving families.

As for it truly making an impact on the amount of abortions performed.....I doubt it. I think there are too many reasons why women have abortions that have to do more with the "carrying" than the "giving up" of a child.

I know of one case where the woman felt she had no choice but have an abortion so that she would be physically able to provide for the 2 children she already had. It was a very hard thing for her to do and it haunts her to this day but she has told me she still doesn't know how she could have had the baby and still worked to provide for her existing children. Sad....Frowner
ButtercupButtercupPost Master
I know many, many women who've had abortions and know the decision in each case was not made lightly. It's not a birth control method for most people and to assume so is ignorant. It's simply more complex than that.

All birth control methods (except abstinence) have a failure rate and the women I know who've had abortions were using protection. (And on that note, a woman needs to take the pill at the same time of day, every day, for it to work. I suppose those of you who are judging a woman for missing a dose have never forgot to do something important yourselves. It happens. People are human.)

I don't think a contract between the potential adoptive parents and biological parents stating "we will pay for maternity costs and delivery of the baby" is a good idea because it's my understanding that the biological parents still have the right to change their minds even as late as the day of birth. That would cause additional heartache - and expenses - to the situation.

Education always has been and always will be the key. Not just the birds and bees talk, but educating young women about the true intentions of young men. Young women think sex is about love and feelings and young men know sex is about sex. Parents of girls (especially dads) need to sit down with their daughters and explain this....and explain to "put out" is to give away your power, get your heart broken and possibly get pregnant. Girls need to be empowered and learn how to not fall for the cheesy lines.
LG Lets Go Jeepin'Hall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Buttercup:
I know many, many women who've had abortions and know the decision in each case was not made lightly. It's not a birth control method for most people and to assume so is ignorant. It's simply more complex than that.


I dont think it is a birth control method, but it is becoming a backup plan for some. The statistics show more and more that is the case.
quote:

All birth control methods (except abstinence) have a failure rate and the women I know who've had abortions were using protection. (And on that note, a woman needs to take the pill at the same time of day, every day, for it to work. I suppose those of you who are judging a woman for missing a dose have never forgot to do something important yourselves. It happens. People are human.)
Yes, people are human and they make mistakes, but the more acceptable we make those mistakes, the more often those mistakes will be made.

quote:

I don't think a contract between the potential adoptive parents and biological parents stating "we will pay for maternity costs and delivery of the baby" is a good idea because it's my understanding that the biological parents still have the right to change their minds even as late as the day of birth. That would cause additional heartache - and expenses - to the situation.

Education always has been and always will be the key. Not just the birds and bees talk, but educating young women about the true intentions of young men. Young women think sex is about love and feelings and young men know sex is about sex. Parents of girls (especially dads) need to sit down with their daughters and explain this....and explain to "put out" is to give away your power, get your heart broken and possibly get pregnant. Girls need to be empowered and learn how to not fall for the cheesy lines.

Exactly, there need to be more parents actually parenting. There need to be more folks out there take responsibility for who they bring into the world.

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