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if, once saved, a child of God is always saved, then it would be impossible to have his or her name taken out of the Book of Life, which is where the names of the blood-bought are written (Philippians 4:3). I know this is true, because, in order to enter into Heaven, one's name must be written in the Lamb's Book of Life (Revelation 21:27). On the contrary, if one's name is not in the Book of Life, then he will spend an eternity in a Devil's Hell (Revelation 20:15). But, such an interpretation (i.e., once saved, always saved) clearly contradicts what the Lord said about this. In Revelation 3:5-6, Jesus said: “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” Now, this was spoken to the church at Sardis. In other words, He's speaking to Christians, those who had been saved and had their names written in the Book of Life. Even so, this was a dead church, with only a few who had not “defiled their garments” (Revelation 3:4). These, He says, “shall walk with me in white, for they are worthy.” I understand this to mean that they will go to Heaven. Why? Because their names were not blotted out of the Book of Life (verse 6). Clearly, the implied threat to the others is that unless they remember how they had heard and received the gospel, and repent, they will have their names blotted out of the Book of Life. If not, why not? If it can't happen, as “once saved, always saved” folks teach, then what is the Lord implying here and in Revelation 22:18-19, where He plainly says: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
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Revelation 3:3-5 (NIV) 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4 Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

In this section we see two people, within this Church, being discussed about. 1)Unsaved .. needing to repent, having heard the message but not yet acting upon it, and these are the ones in danger of having the time come upon them as a "thief in the night" or unknown to them catching them unawares before they have time to act or react. 2) Saved Saints (Christians if you will) that have "washed their clothes" cleansed themselves, symbolic of repentance and the cleansing of the soul and will walk in white for they are worthy (have met the requirements for forgiveness .. that is belief in Christ, salvation. Note the following verses from a section of Revelation that describes the Rapture or immediately after the Rapture of the saints/Christians/the Saved .....
Revelation 7:9-10 (NIV) 9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." Note that it is he who "overcomes" that will be given the right to walk with the saved, walk with Christ, those that overcome will then be saved as they aren't saved now. Note also the many (Christians and those Raptured by Christ) that are with Christ and wearing white, the same white mentioned in Chapter 3 of Revelation that you cited.

Compare to the following Scripture, from First Thessalonians that uses this example, of the thief in the night or coming at a time that no one could possibly discern or know.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 (NIV) 1 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be self-controlled, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Note in this section that it is the unsaved, like in that section of Revelation 3 that have the coming of Christ come upon them as a thief in the night, unforeseen or expected. In vs 4 however we plainly see that Christians (brothers) are not in that situation where it comes upon them as a thief in the night but they know from the signs when the time is near. Not the exact day and hour but will be able to recognize the signs of the time that will be when Christ returns again.

This is a long way of trying to say many would say that people's names are, upon birth, written into the Lamb's book of life and as they fail to make a decision for Christ as they fail to "overcome" their names are blotted out of the book of life and that by being saved or accepting Christ they insure that their names remain in the book. This also is where some use this thought to explain that children, before the age of accountability, when something happens to them that they are found still written in the "book of life" and therefore haven't lived long enough to be able to make knowledgeable decisions about such spiritual matters and hence risk being "blotted out" of the book of life.

Just proposing one answer or justification that can be put forth in support of eternal security position in refuting the use of Revelation 3:3-5 to argue against their accepted position.
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Originally posted by rolltidequeen:
Please clarify what you stated about children and the age of accountability. I am confused.

Hi Queen,

The Bible teaches that all men, except Jesus Christ, are born with an inherited sin nature -- for Adam's fall through disobedience. This is a sin nature -- not actual sins committed.

An infant, a young child, has a sin nature -- but, until he/she is old enough to discern, to understand, right and wrong -- that child is not held accountable by God for sins. If the child dies during this time -- they are taken directly into the arms of Jesus Christ.

When the child reaches the age of accountability, when a child is old enough to understand who Jesus Christ is, why He had to come to earth to pay for our sins -- when the child is old enough to understand the nature of sin -- he/she is held accountable.

What is this age of accountability? It varies with all children. With some, it may be 6, 7, 8. With others, it may be later -- or earlier. This is usually determined by a pastor, elder, Sunday School teacher talking with the child and affirming that he/she truly does understand.

A pastor I highly respect, the man who led me to Jesus Christ in 1987 -- talked with my oldest granddaughter when she was 5 and determined that she was ready for the believer's baptism. I will admit that I was skeptical; for she was such a baby to me. Yet, his decision has proven to be valid -- for she is now a beautiful 15 year old Christian believer.

Some will poo-poo the teaching of an age of accountability. But, no problem. We know that God desires that all come to Him -- and He most certainly will not reject an innocent child.

I pray this helps.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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I would say that tha age of accountability is about 12 or 13 years old, I know that the Bible says "Suffer little Children to come unto me for such is the Kingdom of Heaven" Matthew 19:13 I think that he only put his hands on them and blessed them and was telling the grown ups that in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven you had to be as humble as a little Child.

John Westley says: That he should lay his hands on them - This was a rite which was very early used, in praying for a blessing on young persons. See Gen. xlviii, 14, 20. The disciples rebuked them - That is, them that brought them: probably thinking such an employ beneath the dignity of their Master. Mark x, 13; Luke xviii
"once saved always saved"
no way.

Through sin we separate ourselves from God. God doesn't say "oh, that's okay my friend, cuz I saved you back in 1987, so whatever......."
You speak of accountability. Accountability by very definition implies that there are CONSEQUENCES. We strive to stay in a state of Grace, but we are ALL SINNERS!!!
How can you "guess" what an age of accountability is? 6? 12? For someone who takes the bible so literally, how can you be sure??
Too much conflicting info with this. I need to go recite the Creed and get myself back on the ground.
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Originally posted by prince albert:
I would say that tha age of accountability is about 12 or 13 years old, I know that the Bible says "Suffer little Children to come unto me for such is the Kingdom of Heaven" Matthew 19:13 I think that he only put his hands on them and blessed them and was telling the grown ups that in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven you had to be as humble as a little Child.

John Westley says: That he should lay his hands on them - This was a rite which was very early used, in praying for a blessing on young persons. See Gen. xlviii, 14, 20. The disciples rebuked them - That is, them that brought them: probably thinking such an employ beneath the dignity of their Master. Mark x, 13; Luke xviii


Accountability begins when the Holy Spirit begans to convict someone. This usually happens after hearing of the word of God, either though a sermon, testimony, movie, witnessing, etc. For me I was 11 when I remember the conviction the first time but it took 7 more years before I surrended to the call of God.
Bill Gray, Holy Anointed of God, was convinced only in 1987 when he had already reached an advanced middle age. Prior to that he appears to have piddled with Rome, and leaving them, flounced over to nightclubs, crystals, ouija boards, and advanced demonology. I still question if he got as much out of all the above and his Jack Chick tracts, big wigged women on the Tee Vee out of Santa Ana than if he had just studied a bit harder his Bible and learnt his catcheism when a youth, as his parents should have taught him. Maybe if he had learned the meaning of Our Lord's parables and not just memorized timelines of dubious origin and theological implication, etc. Sometimes giving bread to the hungry or visiting with the sick tell more about a person than does just having all of Revelation and Isiah memorized, complete with "plug in name of modern examples as the older ones fade away."

Now there is a place for simple faith, and that is with the simple, and even then their faith without works is dead, the Apostles tell us. Talking about about adding or subtracting from this book! Modern Triburapturists, methinks that John on Patmos was talking right at y'all!
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Sometimes giving bread to the hungry or visiting with the sick tell more about a person than does just having all of Revelation and Isiah memorized


Right-o! We are called to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the widow, give hope to the hopeless, visit the imprisoned. This was an "order". I don't know anywhere that says you have to be able to recite and memorize nada. I think, in all honesty, when you try too hard to memorize and recite and take the Word as "literal" all the time, you completely lose sight of what we are supposed to be doing.
Jesus, I'm quite sure would prefer that we spend our time helping our lesser brother, than spinning wheels trying to debate our interpretations of Sacred Scripture. Just my opinion......
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Originally posted by vplee123:
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Originally posted by Neal Aude:
Sometimes giving bread to the hungry or visiting with the sick tell more about a person than does just having all of Revelation and Isiah (sic) memorized

Right-o! We are called to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the widow, give hope to the hopeless, visit the imprisoned. This was an "order". I don't know anywhere that says you have to be able to recite and memorize nada. I think, in all honesty, when you try too hard to memorize and recite and take the Word as "literal" all the time, you completely lose sight of what we are supposed to be doing. Jesus, I'm quite sure would prefer that we spend our time helping our lesser brother, than spinning wheels trying to debate our interpretations of Sacred Scripture. Just my opinion......

Hi Neal and VP,

We are talking apples and oranges here -- or should I say you are preaching a "social theology" -- not a theology of salvation.

First, we should address what is required for folks to be saved -- as beautifully given us in Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

So, we see that a person is saved -- by the grace of God -- through faith in Jesus Christ -- plus NOTHING else, no works.

Then, we should look at the "FRUIT" of that salvation -- the "works" of helping our fellow man, of healing our fellow man, of lifting our fellow man out of poverty and need.

If we do not get this in the right order; we can harm many people. A man who is saved and poor -- is far better served than a man who is left in Satan's clutches, but with a full stomach.

Therefore, let's feed the man's spiritual needs first -- then, let's feed his physical needs. I will be the first to agree with the Salvation Army's philosophy that a man with a full stomach is more likely to listen to the Gospel, than a man who's stomach is growling from hunger. However, the proponents of the "social theology" seem to think that their task is finished when they feed the man's stomach.

But, if you will examine the Scripture passages which we relate to the Great Commission; there is no mention of feeding the physical body. Jesus tells us, in Matthew 28:19-20 to Go, Make disciples, Baptize them, Teach them -- and in Mark 16:15 and Acts 1:8, He tells us to be His witnesses to all the world. Notice, He does not say to feed the world first. He is more concerned about their eternal soul than about their earthly physical body.

First, we bring salvation to them; then we feed them. Albeit, at times it is easier to bring them to salvation with a full stomach. Yet, His emphasis is on saving the soul; not filling the stomach.

Let's work on a Salvation Theology -- then, we can accommodate your Social Theology.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
But, if you will examine the Scripture passages which we relate to the Great Commission; there is no mention of feeding the physical body. Jesus tells us, in Matthew 28:19-20 to Go, Make disciples, Baptize them, Teach them -- and in Mark 16:15 and Acts 1:8, He tells us to be His witnesses to all the world. Notice, He does not say to feed the world first. He is more concerned about their eternal soul than about their earthly physical body.

First, we bring salvation to them; then we feed them. Albeit, at times it is easier to bring them to salvation with a full stomach. Yet, His emphasis is on saving the soul; not filling the stomach.

Let's work on a Salvation Theology -- then, we can accommodate your Social Theology.


Are you kidding me?? You really love to argue. That is abundantly clear.It seems that you are arguing for the sake of it, not to really say anything.... I mean, REALLY? I've never once heard any man say that social justices should take a back seat. Incredible. Why even bother? If I say "feed the hungry", you say NO!
WHY? Mr. Gray??? Are you afraid you don't do enough for your lesser bretheren? Do you not feel compelled to help those around you,PHYSICALLY?
Just curious, if you were to see a homeless woman and child on the street, what do you think would help her more? Food and Shelter,or a "witness" from you?
Do you think that you have all the answers? Do you think that your OPINION is more credible/valuable than others? Do you think that you have a specific gift for "preaching"?
Just curious as to your motivations. I'm pretty sure you'll say you are trying to "spread the Word". Ok, I'll take that...we've established that. but how can you say that social injustice is not high on your priority list?
quote:
Originally posted by vplee123:
I think, in all honesty, when you try too hard to memorize and recite and take the Word as "literal" all the time, you completely lose sight of what we are supposed to be doing.
Jesus, I'm quite sure would prefer that we spend our time helping our lesser brother, than spinning wheels trying to debate our interpretations of Sacred Scripture. Just my opinion......


"How can a young man keep his way pure?
By living according to your word." Psalm 119:9
-How can I do this if I don't memorize the word? You must His Word to live accordidng to it.

"I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you." Psalm 119:11
-When confronted by sin what will empower me to resist if I don't know His Word? I must memorize it and hide it in my heart to help me follow Him and give Him the glory for my actions.

-""With my lips I recount all the laws that come from your mouth." Psalms 119:13

-"I delight in your decrees; I will not neglect your word." Psalm Psalm 119:16
-These verses are pretty self explanatory as what we need to do.


I believe it is very important to know God's word. To a Christian it is our "map" to how we should live our lives. Memorize it, quote it, and learn it. If we don't know it then how do we know Him and what he expects of us. How would we know to "feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the widow, give hope to the hopeless, visit the imprisoned?" As you said. I am not slamming or picking on you just trying to be thought provoking? We should read the Word and allow God to speak to us through it and not attach a meaning to the verse that isn't there. That can fall into the category of interpretation. Our interpretations are going to differ because He speaks to everyone in different ways. We just need to be sure we don't misconstrue God's Word to fit our on purposes. And that can happen and does happen in ANY denomination. It is the sad vile way of man.
Let the poor starve and the orphans sleep in the street while you preach to them . . . right. Do the actions of Our Lord not impress upon you anything? Remember the parable of the Good Samaritan? One of the turnasiders was a Levite, a temple hereditary attendant who was supported by the gifts of the people, the other was a Pharisee who was meticulous about the observance of the law to its Nth detail. Who was the one who did not ignore? Someone who was an outcast for his version of the Mosaic Faith.

Some "religious" people, self styled obviously, sicken me.
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Originally posted by Aude Sapere: Let the poor starve and the orphans sleep in the street while you preach to them . . . right. Do the actions of Our Lord not impress upon you anything? Remember the parable of the Good Samaritan? One of the turnasiders was a Levite, a temple hereditary attendant who was supported by the gifts of the people, the other was a Pharisee who was meticulous about the observance of the law to its Nth detail. Who was the one who did not ignore? Someone who was an outcast for his version of the Mosaic Faith. Some "religious" people, self styled obviously, sicken me.

Hi Neal,

You use a Scripture passage to support your Liberal Social Theology -- but, have you really studied what is said? Let's take a look at the story of the Good Samaritan in Luke, chapter 10:

Luke 10:25-37, And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

Luke 10:26, He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"

Luke 10:27, So he answered and said, "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"

Luke 10:28, And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."

Luke 10:29, But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Luke 10:30-32, Then Jesus answered and said: "A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side.

Luke 10:33-35, But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.'

Luke 10:36, So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?"

Luke 10:37, And he said, "He who showed mercy on him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."

You will notice that the Pharisee asks of Jesus: "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

And, Jesus led him to respond: "'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"

There in a nutshell is salvation. If one loves God with all his heart, with all his soul, with all his strength, and with all his mind -- that person will do as God instructs him. What does the Word of God tell us about gaining salvation?

In John 3:3-5, when Jesus is talking with Nicodemus, the Pharisee, Jesus said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. . . Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Water: The Word of God

Spirit: The Holy Spirit

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not as a result of works, so that no one may boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

So, if a person sincerely loves God -- he will, by the grace of God, through faith in Jesus Christ -- believe and receive eternal life in Christ.

Once a person has done this, secured his place in heaven, attained eternal security in Christ -- then, the FRUIT of his salvation is brought into play -- he will "Go and do likewise."

That, my dear Friend Neal, is the story of the Good Samaritan. Why don't you "Go and do likewise"?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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From John Lightfoot Bible Commentary: 5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit.] He tells him, that the Jew himself cannot be admitted into the kingdom of the Messiah unless he first strip himself of his Judaism by baptism, and then put off his carnal and put on a spiritual state. That by water here is meant baptism, I make no doubt: nor do I much less question but our Saviour goes on from thence to the second article of the evangelical doctrine. And as he had taught that towards the participation of the benefits to be had by the Messiah, it is of little or of no value for a man to be born of the seed of Abraham, or to be originally an Israelite, unless he was also born from above.
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Originally posted by prince albert:
5. From A.D. Johnson Commentary: Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus does not reply directly to the question of Nicodemus, but proceeds to give a more explicit statement concerning the new birth. One must be born of water and of the Spirit. Whatever this may mean, it will be admitted by all (1) that no one is a member of the kingdom of God until he is born again; (2) that the Savior declares the impossibility of one entering who is not born of water and of the Spirit. All agree that the birth of the Spirit refers to the inward, or spiritual change that takes place, and all candid authorities agree that born of water refers to baptism. So Alford, Wesley, Abbott, Whitby, Olshausen, Tholuck, Prof. Wm. Milligan, the Episcopal Prayer Book, the Westminister Confession, the M. E. Discipline, and M. E. Doctrinal Tracts, and also the writers of the early Church all declare. Alford says: "All attempts to get rid of this have sprung from doctrinal prejudices." Abbott says: "We are to understand Christ as he expected his auditor to understand him. John the Baptist baptized both Jew and Gentile as a sign of purification by repentance from past sins. Nicodemus would then have certainly understood by the expression, 'born of water,' a reference to this rite of baptism."
Hi Albert,

Yes, there are different ways to view this Scripture passage:

John 3:3-7, Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' "


While I have tended to view the "born of the water" as meaning "the Living Water, the Word of God" -- Pastor Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel presents three views, each of which have some credibility. The main point which he makes -- and with which I agree completely is: Regardless of which view we adopt, this does not affect our salvation. The main point we should get from this Scripture passage is: We MUST be Born Again to see the kingdom of God.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pastor Chuck Smith, Calvary Chapel -- Commentary on John 3-4 (C2000 Series)
http://www.blueletterbible.org...opic=John&ar=Jhn_3_3

Now Nicodemus was interested in being born again, but the process, "How can it happen? There's no way that I can return to my mother's womb and be born again." And I do not believe that he was being facetious, I think that he was just really curious as to, "What do you mean, born again?"

And then Jesus said, "Unless a man is born of the water and of the Spirit." Now, what does He mean water and Spirit? We know what it is to be born of the Spirit. What is He referring to being born of the water?

There are those who declare that He is talking about water baptism. Unless you have been baptized in water, you're not going to see the kingdom of heaven, and that born of the water refers to water baptism.

I do not believe that Jesus is referring to water baptism here, because I believe that there are people who have gone through the ritual of water baptism who are not going to see the kingdom of heaven. It was only a ritual.

There are those who say the water refers to the Word of God. As Peter in his first epistle, chapter l, verse 23, said that we've been "begotten unto this living hope through the Word of truth." And so, we've been born again through the Word of God. And Jesus said in John l5, "Now you are clean through the Word which I have spoken unto you." And so it is being born of the Word of God. And, the theological giants have taken their positions and there are those who say water baptism and those who say born through the Word God, and they write their commentaries and their ideas and thoughts and blast each other's ideas.

But, it would seem to me that being born of the water would be a reference to our natural birth, as the fetus is in that water sac being protected, and then there is the water bursting and the child is born. To be born of the water would refer to the natural birth, because in context then, Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, but that which born of the Spirit is spirit." And so, He's talking about the two births: born of the water, and born of the Spirit. And that the born of the Spirit is referring to the new birth, the spiritual birth that we have, where born of the water would refer to the fleshly birth.

Now, I don't intend to make any brief for this position. If you want to believe that it refers to water baptism, you're welcome. If you want to believe that it is referring to being born by the Word of God, you're welcome. And if you want to believe it is being born of the flesh, you're welcome. You can take whatever position you want and it's not going to alter your relationship with God one iota. But there are these positions that people take, and sometimes they get very argumentative with them, but I have no argument.

We do know that that which is born of the flesh is flesh. You were born once, naturally, of the flesh. You are not a child of God by natural birth, you are a child of God by the spiritual birth. Paul the apostle, talking about your life before Christ, said, "And you, hath He made alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins; who in times past walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, that even now works in the children of disobedience: among whom you all once lived, according to the lust of your mind, and the lust of your flesh; and you were by nature the children of wrath" (Ephesians
2:1-3) Not the children of God, the children of wrath. It is only by a new birth that I become a child of God.

So that which is born of the flesh is flesh. A person apart from the new birth lives a life that is dominated by his fleshly desires. His body rules over his soul and spirit. In fact, his spirit is dead. That's what comes alive when a person is born again, the spiritual birth, that is when my spirit comes alive. Prior to that, I am living in the flesh and after the flesh, and my mind is dominated by the flesh, and thus, I have what the scripture terms the mind of the flesh, which is death. My chief concern is what I'm going to eat, what I'm going to drink, what I'm going to wear. My fleshly needs, my body needs. These are the things that occupy my mind.

But when a person is born of the Spirit, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Then, the spirit becomes alive and begins to rule within my life, and now my mind is occupied with the things of the Spirit, with how I might please God, in the worship of God, in the opening up of my life and my heart unto the things of God and of His Spirit, and these are the things that now dominate my mind. A mind dominated by the Spirit is called the mind of the Spirit, which is life and peace and joy.

So Jesus said, "Don't marvel when I said, you must be born again" (John 3:7).

The word must, again, is one of those words you've got to pay careful attention to, because there, you're coming to the heart of the issue when a person says, "I must."

When God said, "You must," -- it is something you need to pay careful heed to -- and He said, "You must be born again."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I pray this gives everyone a better perspective on this vital Scripture passage.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Have you ever met and talked to anyone that doesn't think they are right? and I have never talked to but one Man that said that they were not going to Heaven, he may have been joking but he said that he wanted to go to Hell because he wanted to go where the biggest crowd was, he's dead now and I bet if you could talk to him Today he would be a different Man, but there is no turning back after Death.

everybody wants to go to heaven but sadly most people that go to church even won't make it.

Matt 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby.
Matt 7:14 For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.

Matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Iniquity means without authority)

So I trust my way and you trust yours, I read the Bible almost every Day, I like to read it and get Comfort from reading it and the day is fast approaching when all things will be made clear then there will not be anymore arguments.

the average Word in the Bible is 5 letters and wrote about the seventh grade level so I trust that I am smart enough to understand it, I just don't understand it the way a lot of other Folks do or want me to and there is the Problem.
Last edited by prince albert
quote:
Originally posted by prince albert:
Have you ever met and talked to anyone that doesn't think they are right? and I have never talked to but one Man that said that they were not going to Heaven, he may have been joking but he said that he wanted to go to Hell because he wanted to go where the biggest crowd was, he's dead now and I bet if you could talk to him Today he would be a different Man, but there is no turning back after Death.

So I trust my way and you trust yours, I read the Bible almost every Day, I like to read it and get Comfort from reading it and the day is fast approaching when all things will be made clear then there will not be anymore arguments.

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