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Originally posted by teyates:
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Originally posted by seeweed:
Probably because of the way the R's have demonized the bill with lies.
Gets back to "if you tell a big enough lie to enough people for long enough , they will believe it"
Look at some of the lies that have been told about the Affordable Care Act:
Government take over of health care -lie
Death panels - lie
Job killing - lie - in fact it may be job creating
Cost billions of tax dollars - Lie , according to the CBO, it will save a few billions.
If people would get themselves educated as to what is in the bill, they would not be opposed to it.
Instead, sadly, they prefer to remain in ignorance and be told by Fox what to think.
Not everything in there is lies though seeweed. This bill really only creates jobs in two sectors, government and the insurance companies. More and more regulations are being put into place on how they can regulate the medical profession and in short decrease your access to care.
Why not let the doctors and nurses have some say in the process? And when I say "doctors and nurses", I mean ones who actually work in the profession, not some egghead academician who works 9 till 4 and draws a salary paid by a university.
Secondly, I want to address your death panel issue. Perhaps you could contact my dad in this regard. In November my mom went to the doctor with what looked like typical bronchitis. She was 67 years old and had been on Medicare less than 18 months. Because every hospital system tends to use a hospitalist, some who can barely speak English, she was admitted to him over the weekend. He gave her several strong antibiotics, while holding her fluid intake. He was told she had congestive heart failure. By Monday when the cardiologist saw her, she was in renal failure, and went to CCU and was put on a ventilator. We sat with her during Thanksgiving while she was on the vent, and she got much better. I left on Sunday and came home, she knew who I was, but could not talk to me since she was intubated.
Later that week, they took her off the vent and 30 minutes later she had a laryngeal spasm. I won't go into the details, but in essence she went without oxygen for almost 10 minutes.
Per the Medciare guidelines, they started talking to my dad about things they HAD to do. She was moved from one unit to another, per guidelines, and in one case went almost a week with no food, no water, and no IV, this was during the week of Christmas, when we sat with her being told she would die any hour. Despite the witholding of care, she made it till 1145 pm on New Years Eve, when she finally died, at the age of 67.
We spent my dad's birthday at visitation in the funeral home.
To answer your question about death panels? No, they don't exist like a group of people who sit around and decide who gets what, BUT they do exist in the form of regulations and guidelines that doctors and nurses must follow in order to qulaify for government compensation.
Do you really think Medicare cares if doctors decide they cannot afford to take Medicare insurance and you have no one to see? NO. because the less people who have access to care, the less they have to pay out, and the more money they save.
The system needs help.
There is nothing wrong with the age 26 clause. There is nothing wrong with the pre-existing clause, as long as there is reasonable justification in it. For instance a person should not be allowed to go out and purchase a cadillac insurance plan when they find out they have cancer. If that were the case, why would anyone buy insurance? Just wait till you get sick and then go get the best you can afford.
Enough of my rant. But there are good and bad points to this monster bill that no one read before they signed, and some of the things need to be addressed.
Tey,
First < I'd like to offer my condolences about your mother. That is really something to have to go thru. My sympathies are with you.
Second, I'd like to say that I thank you for making good points to your view and being able to discuss a subject in an intelligent manner, unlike some others on here. You and I may never see eye to eye on virtually anything, but I do consider you a forum friend.
Although , the medical care your mother seemed to received was obviously not very good, I'm not sure that it had anything really to do with Sarah Palin's "Death Panels" .
What SP was referring to, which got picked up on by the FOX echo chamber, was , and is, the ability for a medical professional to talk to someone about what
future options they want for final care, and be able to charge for that service, as opposed to just slipping in a few suggestions in a 15 minute dr visit for something else being treated. To say that a discussion with a dr about how you want your final time to be like, is a "death panel" is an absurd lie. In fact , I think we all should already have taken care of that in writing before hand, but too many people don't ie: Terri Schievo. As for me, my wife, and my mother, we all have written our "living wills" so that discussion will not be necessary.
However, back to the point - whether it be this bill about insurance reform, or any other, for one side to lie intentionally about what it is is counter constructive. A bad bill or law should fall or fail because it is bad, NOT because a party want to use it's failure to "be Obama's Waterloo".
My opinion is that the more lies that is told about a thing, the better that thing is. Just an observation I have picked up thru living these years. I believe if something is bad it will fall of it's own weight, if it is good, it will stand of it's own weight.
That is the whole point I was trying to make. In regards to this so called "health care bill" , most of the publicity I have heard is just plain lies, told by people who claim to be Christians.
I have scanned the bill, not to be confused with reading it with complete understanding , and nothing particular jumps out at me that should be objectionable. It is not the bill I would have written, I would have preferred something like Medicare for all, but this particular bill dosen't do a whole lot but make insurance companies do what they are supposed to do, and I don't see a lot wrong with that.
What a lot find objectionable is the mandatory part, but common sense should tell even the village idiot that if all the young and healthy are carrying insurance, then the aggregate income vs payout should make EVERYBODY's insurance more affordable. In other words, the only way you can pay for the parts you (or most) people like, is to have the parts they don't like.
Personally, I've had health insurance all my life, initially on my parents plan, later when I started work. I did have a few months when I was downsized out of a job during the Reagan downturn that I had to go on the market and get some half-ass policy just to protect my home if it ever came to that, So I see no reason so many people are opposed to having health insurance.
The only OTHER responsible alternative, is if someone shows up at the ER without insurance, demand payment of a bond up front, or kick them out to either get well or die. That may sound cruel, but hell, it's cruel to let them get by without having insurance and then expect you and me to pay for their care.
