What drives an Atheist is the same thing the drives a once saved, always saved

person. An Atheist needs to prove there isn't a God before death and a once

saved always saved needs to believe in a free ticket to Heaven before death

 

**************************************************************************************************************

 

Invic, you have no idea what drives atheists. We don't need to prove there's no god. Either you believe there isn't, (atheist) or you believe there is or could be. I don't believe there's a god so no one has to prove to me there isn't. And whether or not you believe it, there are plenty of people that are not afraid to die. Like I told RP earlier,  I'm one of those that isn't afraid to die.  Now that doesn't mean I'm not careful or that I take risks, because like I said, I don't want to leave a good party early.

I think a lot of people fear the pain that may come with death. I fear being in a hospital when I die, or being burned to death, or heart attack, or stroke, or cancer.  I don't fear actually being dead, just the process to get there.

 

As long as my body and my mind  hang on, I would like to postpone it for as long as possible.

-----------------

I agree b, I fear being a burden on my family with a long drawn out illness.

Much better to be hit by a comet.

.

"Fear of dying" ties right into "fear of the unknown". We know so little about death and where(if anywhere) we go when we leave this body. It's still one of the biggest mysteries left. Many people think they have it all figured out but much like believing in God they cannot prove anything.

I fear growing old and helpless and living out my final days in a nursing home. Those places are so sad, depressing and hopeless. I fear cancer and a long, drawn out painful death. I like another poster has already said don't actually fear being dead just the stuff leading up to it. I'd rather go quickly, perhaps never knowing what hit me. Seems like the best way to me.

Interesting topic.

I fear dying at the hand some nurse.

Ditto, all of the above.  I never thought about nursing homes until my mother was in one near the end of life.  It was a horrible place.

 

I like Vic's method. Death by comet!

I had encephalitis many years ago and almost died, and I remember where I was while they worked to bring me back.  It was a very peaceful place, I have longed for it since then, and I have no fear of being dead or dying itself.  I don't believe there is a God or gods (so I guess in that sense I would be atheist), but I know we don't end forever when we die.

 

I've seen many people right at the moment of death (worked in a hospital), and some screamed in fear while some smiled peacefully or basically fell asleep.  I do not want to leave my young children now just as I didn't want to leave my young son at the time many years ago, and I did have a choice then...perhaps I wasn't at the point of no return to my body so I got to choose.  But leaving here isn't disappearing, and I do believe there is peace after we leave here.  I'm not afraid of dying...not thrilled at the prospect of a long and painful death as I would think most would agree.

 

But I most likely would be more afraid if I hadn't had that and many other experiences I have had, and I can understand the fear of the unknown.

Frog,

 

Can you describe any of the feelings, surroundings,  or sensations?  I would love to hear it.

It is not a seminal foundation of my philosophy, but interesting nonetheless that Pink Floyd published in 1972 these lyrics:

"And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."

"I never said I was frightened of dying."

"I never said I was frightened of dying."

 

The quote is a conclusion.  It is not data.

 

I am not frightened of dying.  Any time will do.

 

DF

I'll take Blood, Sweat,  and Tears:

Now troubles are many, they're as deep as a well.
I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.
Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell,
But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.

Don't want to go by the devil.
Don't want to go by demon.
Don't want to go by Satan,
Don't want to die uneasy.
Just let me go naturally.

And when I die, and when I'm gone,
There'll be one child born
In this world to carry on,
to carry on.

NSNS, I know that quote is from 'Dark side of the moon' but what song is it from? I can't remember.

DD,

- The Great Gig In The Sky

Thanks b.

Dark Side of the Moon, and as B said, Great Gig in the Sky.

 

Not an influential reference, but a confirming one.  And a beautiful one.  Perhaps the most beautiful passage in an entirely gorgeous album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBabMxnFQsQ

 

DF

Can't reference it, because I heard it on internet radio, but a nurse reported that Catholics were most frightened of dying, atheists least.

 

Still, I believe it.  It makes sense.

 

DF

---

This happened twice....once in the ambulance on the way to the hospital, and one in the ER when they got me there.  In the ambulance I faded out and was in the place I describe below, but I heard the paramedics asking if "she didn't have a son?" and then yelling in my ear that he needed me.  If you knew my ex you would understand why that was the only thing that would have dragged me back from that place I was.  In the ER when it happened again I watched them work on me from the top of the room above the table, and I remember seeing the doctor's scrub tag sticking out of the back of his shirt and thinking how these techniques they were using were cool but weren't anything to do with a person staying or leaving.  I kept that in mind that later when I worked in the hospital...interesting thought.

 

Both times I was simply peaceful with no emotional or physical pain.  It was the right temperature, lighting, and I felt absolutely content to be there forever, but there was a pull to eventually move on to something I was supposed to go do that would finish whatever...I'm not sure what.  There was no big white light and no particular "Godly being" there, and although I felt that there were energies around me in the distance that I might recognize, the sensations were that of simply going into a room where I rested and relaxed with no need to go anywhere else then.  I "knew" there were other places to go if I stayed and there would be others there if I wanted to be with them, but mainly the sensation and knowing was that I was simply moving on to leave my body and go on as energy.  It was the most wonderful experience both times, and  my ex agreed later that I didn't seem fully back in my body for over a year.  I really yearned to go back there...sigh.

 

I had close calls as a child (abusive parents) and remember starting to drift to that place a few times, but those two times as an adult were different since I went on to be on that place.  I still miss it, but when I give Reiki the feeling is similar enough to be very soothing to me.  But it was profound and changed how I felt about death and life, and it sharpened my senses definitely.

That's sound very similar to other people's description. Just peace, calm, and seeing things from outside your own body. It sounds very nice. I'm sure someone will chime in with 'drugged effect from dying brain cells', but it does sound pleasant.

 

I had one out of body experience as a child that was not due to being sick or hurt. It was my spirit (or something) rolling along with the wind over a field. I could feel the tumbling and see the field go by even though I was standing still holding onto a tree. It lasted for a few minutes. It was a wonderful feeling. I could never duplicate it again.

"hand some nurse" - Would like be like a good-looking male nurse?

Dying can't be as bad as living forever in the south with all its bigots and hatred.

Unless the drummer is Karen Carpenter

Like Jennifer said-I'm only  afraid of dying too soon. I'm not done living yet.

Originally Posted by rimshot:

Do they even have buses in Alabama? Oh yes, there was a bus ride in the 60s to register voters. I remember. You must have been one of the people with the dogs and fire hoses. I hope you sleep well.

-------------------

Thats right Pup, Live till you die, not much anyone can do about it anyway.

 

. 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

C'mon Jammaboy, be nice.

 

.

Calling someone jammaboy is what I mean by bigot and hatred.

If that's the worse that ever happens to you you're in good shape. Why are you still living in the 60s??

Want to know the truth about dying?  It is found at this link!!!  In this message, Dr. Stanley shares with us the incredible victory Christ had over death.  http://www.intouch.org/broadca..._of_the_resurrection

 

 

"For death is no more than a turning of us over from time to eternity." --William Penn

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

Because he's afraid to go outside??? So, rim, what other scree names have you had?

//////////////////////

b5m the screen name popo.That's one of her many hangups rim. She has more than one LMM/b50m/ Little Mean Mamma. She is mean. You wouldn't believe the things she has done to the poor Buffalo and rram. I try to give wide birth.

She loves to tattle. I'm almost certain I've met her in real life. There is this woman, I wont say where, but she spends all day tattling . Drives me nuts.

Yup.  And I fly like superman all the time.  If I could make myself experience that feeling at will, I would never wake up.  It is the most wonderful feeling in the world.  But, alas, it's just a dream.

I also have "NDE's" often when I go to sleep.  At the junction between sleeping and waking there is a state of consciousness that is wonderfully comfortable.  I have taken a nap on a hard, cold concrete floor and still can find that comfortable place.  It's difficult to get to. The trick is to keep yourself aware just a little as you go to sleep.  There are book devoted to the subject.  Some people claim to be very good at it.  I only have limited success.  Goode "lucid dreaming" sometime.

Nothing magical about it at all. Just plain old extraordinarily complex brain function.  

Like sleep paralysis. I've experienced this when I was very very tired. Once you know what's happening it's not scary and you can even "talk yourself through it" until you wake up.

I just thought I would mention this wasn't like sleep paralysis or a dream...and really science can't 100% explain what a person experiences at near death.  Yes, I accept the scientific explanation up to a point, but I've had OOE, journeyed while awake, dreamed of course, and this was a different sensation.  I have almost died several times in my life and have experienced the deprivation hallucinations, but this felt different and affected me differently.

 

But I do realize that my experience is subjective and that science would tell me that it was all due to oxygen deprivation. 

Frog I have no idea how it works. I've read that people from all over the world claim NDE and truly believe they've had them, and what they experience goes along with what they have been told and believe about their culture's afterlife.

My NDE’s [dreams that is] are very very real to me. They are well arraigned into sensible experiences.

When I awake from them in the morning I go over them and usually they are a composite of things that happened the day before but amazingly have continuity involving different experiences. I remember them for days and even for months if they were interesting. Many times they are inventions of things or tasks that I am not capable of accomplishing while I’m awake. Not feats of strength or anything weird but mechanical devices that do not exist. There is never a waking moment that I have an idle mind. Even if I’m on the phone, driving or in conversation I’m pondering ideas and unknowns. I use all my spare time listening to lectures via ipod, smart phone or laptop. I listen sometimes until 2 AM and fall asleep.

Last night I dreamed I was on the campus of Stanford University. I realized Dr. Susskind and Dr Conway taught there and what would be the chance I would see them. I ask a student about their offices and was pointed to the building. To make a long story short I got to meet with both of them and I did convey to Dr. Conway my concern for his health and that he was such an important individual and the scientific world could not do without him. Susskind agreed and ask me my opinion about a scientific subject and when I gave the answer he was pleased. I was elated. Then Susskind ask me if I could give a couple of his students a ride back to Florence. No farther instructions other than their name was given. Gray was the last name and when I went into a crowd I called their name and they walked up and introduced themselves. I had become separated from a friend Ed who was with me and the rest of the dream was trying to find him and explain we had additional passengers . We must have made it home.

---

I agree and the funny thing is that I was Catholic at the time and one would think my frame of reference would be God-centered, but it wasn't.  Anyway, I was a different person in many ways after that, and whatever the cause I am much more sensitive to many things...it changed things on several levels.  I'll take it whatever the explanation..lol.

Sorry Unob, I was wide awake, standing outside at the time. No dreaming. But since you gave the answer I had expected, no surprise.

b50m, that is really cool and it could have been many things.  I won't go into them since I know what reaction I would get..lol...but I don't think that is a brain chemistry reaction.  Awesome experience

Really magpie==ramm==buffalo==gsman==BuffaloWife=buffspup =DeepFat  =denao=KittysCat=Peter =RedboneDog =Unobtanium???????????????????

You have never met me in real life and never will.

 

The reaction here is expected. 

 

I have never been able to explain it as it was not NDE, nor was I asleep, nor dreaming. I could actually feel myself tumbling along the ground but without any pressure or pain. I could feel the wind blowing me along.  It was magnificent.

Whoah, what did I do to get in that list?

 

LOL, you didn't DO anything. Those are all the screen names he picked to get into Joy's forum.

 

Ahh,  

 

Kind of sad really, but a disgusting individual like that has no real choices, I guess.

unoi, kittyscat told me about it. she swore it  was you.  You were repenting because bad news from a doctor or something..lol Big Joy jumped in and told you to just go slow  with your newfound self and she would help guide you through the crisis with prayer. HAHA  They thought it was yo big self. The whole bunch went beserk. B50 was stunned. it was so freekin funny you devil yoyu. lol

Stunned???????????

 

Ramm, have you considered taking Ginko?  Great for memory. Of course, in late Alzheimer's, I'm not sure it would help.

 

Poor little thing.  I know you try so hard. Thank you for the message at BOS.  It was so sweet. I answered you so please log in sometime. Big hug.

i read it you li'l devil.

i do want a ginkgo tree like the ones planted on Mobile Street.

I was thinking more of the herbal treatment for memory loss. Ginkgo Biloba. 

 

Medicinal uses

Extracts of Ginkgo leaves contain flavonoid glycosides and terpenoids (ginkgolides, bilobalides) and have been used pharmaceutically. Ginkgo supplements are usually taken in the range of 40–200 mg per day. Recently, careful clinical trials have shown Ginkgo to be effective in treating dementia^[30] but not preventing the onset of Alzheimer's Disease in normal people.^[31][32]

Getting back to the 1st page of replies before the troll took over the thread:

I've had sleep paralysis a few times over the years. Mostly when I'm exhausted and tired though is the only time it seems to happen. Eerie feeling.

DD,

I have had that happen too. Apparently since our brains put us in paralysis while we are dreaming so we don't go driving or walking, if we wake up too suddenly from a dream, the reflex has not been turned off yet. Very scary. That's also why you can't scream in a dream.

 

People who sleep walk have this safety feature 'broken', and science doesn't know why.

I was a chronic sleep walker as a child but I eventually grew out of it. It is indeed a weird and unnerving disorder for those who do it and for those around them.

There is no need to fear death. A short forty-nine days after you assume room temperature, you will be back, with a whole new body. Too bad for Bill and Skippy and the duck and Invictus and b50m, who will probably be c o c kroaches, but that's their problem. Maybe Jennifer will be a lumberjack and get to step on them.

*************************************************************************************************************

 

Same here-it would happen when I was just "bone tired". I think it's happened to almost everybody at one time or the other, same as sleepwalking.

***************************************************************************************************************

Why would anyone want to "come back"?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jen,, No one does want to, or will came back, jimiberry's hate for God and

most everyone else has his imaginary underworld heros working overtime.

 

.

Want to come back? You don't have a choice.

So you believe in re-incarnation jimi?  And it takes 49 days?

 

Want to give some backup on this one or is it just your method of trolling has changed? I did suggest it after all......

Educate yourself. It isn't my job.

--------------------------------------------

I'll bet you haven't been to the restroom in 49 days.

Something on your mind?

 

.

You lose. Next!

Originally Posted by b50m:

So you believe in re-incarnation jimi?  And it takes 49 days?

 

Want to give some backup on this one or is it just your method of trolling has changed? I did suggest it after all......

 

Originally Posted by JimiHendrix:

Educate yourself. It isn't my job.

 

 

Meaning, you just threw out BS again.

I don't fear death. I'm not ready to die, but I don't fear it.

I want to come back as a rabid dog, so I can bite all the goobers who mistreated me in my former (human) life!

Don't fear death. Don't look forward to it either.  Although, the final process seems a bit unpleasant.

 

The end results can't be too horrendous. To summarize the different beliefs.

 

If, christian, like myself, the possibility of Paradise and its rewards are attractive.

If the Jews are correct, I still go, but must spend a bit of time in purgatory. Still not unattractive. 

If, the Muslims are correct, I spend a century in the second mansion of hell, a century in the first mansion, then a bit of time before going on to Paradise.  Although, the Muslim idea is a bit limiting. Harems, excellent (but not alcoholic) wine, all in a Paradise garden is pleasant enough, but for eternity?

If, the Buddhists, or Hindus are correct, there is the chance for reincarnation (90 percent of both believe as a human, not an animal). That is a bit harsh.  Or, simply melding into the consciousness of the universe. 

If, the atheists are correct, I (and they) will never know it. 

 

Meaning: You're still a moron who isn't interested in truth.

 

Lying again I see....I guess you forgot I provide a link to prove it. 

 

http://alabamian.forumotion.com/t117-coexistence

 

NOTE:  This was not Unob from TVT; it was Rram/Buff/Magpie/whatever pretending to be Unob.

 

TVT Admin, this member has been reported and is still here.  If you allow his lies about me & others (which is breaking your own rules), a link revealing his lies about me will be my rebuttal from now on.

Joy, I think you need to know FirenzeViritus is trying to organize Ubu as a “hit man” on your forum. I thought that was a crime.

….looky here:http://alabamian.forumotion.co...ubu-hits-are-us#4237

 

LBB Is also in on the caper:

looky here:

Subject: Re: New Business: Firenze-Ubu Hits Are Us   Today at 2:45 pm
Hey, how come i don't get in on this? I'm the assassin, you know? I demand equal billing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Seriously, leave for five minutes and the whole world goes to s***. Ramm, play at your house, OK? We don't go there so you can have it all to YOURSELF! Which, knowing you, that all you've got to play with.    Shame on LBB

Yeah, ramm shame.

 

Re: LMM the li'l beast

New post  Rramlimnn Yesterday at 2:21 pm
LBB you have cut me deep by calling me names and turned over sexed Liv Tyler agin me also.
Ya'll are going to kill tick if you don't let up on him. He ain't see the light of day in a while.

Re: LMM the li'l beast

New post  Rramlimnn Today at 9:11 am
LBB is meaner than any man but she's cute when she's mad. She's my buddy over on TVT. She has to pretend she hates me to keep her 'position' on VF [Vulgar Forum], don't you hun?

 

 

And earlier:

Re: Good evening 8-10

  Rramlimnn on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:08 pm

 

here comes that blamed cat over here now!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the above post as an example of someone who is NOT a good person or Christian.

 

Thank you for your patience, again.

i've got to go to the boat LBB hun I'll tangle with you after i rest a while.

I am lost.  I thought the thread was about being afraid of dying?  I don't get the idea of cross-forum faking and so forth.  

The thread is frog.  Besides people being afraid of dying, some are afraid of being forgotten, hence magpie.  Just ignore any of his posts and responses. Old wounds.

 

 

 

Frog,b50m is a busybody that jumps between several forums bless her heart.c
She forgets which one she raising hell in and her posts don't make sense someone.ll settle her down. Sorry.

******************************************************************

I'm lost too, & don't get it either, I am totally confused.

It was not free.  My savior and lord died to pay for it.  I don't need to believe.  I believe because God is God.  I love him because he loves me.  I obey him because I love and trust him, not because I'm afraid my sin (a certainty in every human) will snatch me out of his hand.  "Whom the son sets free is free indeed."  There is no freedom in my success or failure determining where I spend eternity.  My failure (all sin) is certain...that's why Jesus took my place.

/]/]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]//////////////////////]]]]]]]]]]]]]

So Joy do you believe “once saved always saved”?

I just read through the responses.  Funny that others thought of songs because when I read the thread's name, I immediately thought of Rich Mullins' song "Elijah".  He perfectly describes how I feel about death...

 

"When I leave, I want to go out like Elijah, with a whirlwind to fuel my chariot of fire, and when I look back on the stars, it'll be like a candlelight in Central Park and it won't break my heart to say 'goodbye'."    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YArMfcMvltc

It just struck me like a bolt of lightning.

Where have I been???????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![smacks steel post]

Joy belives in once saved always saved. Ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhoooo oooo[shiver] I’m so gladddddddddd. Now I totally understand her!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Joy thank you. You have lifted a great burden off me.

Aaaaaaaaaa a mazing grace, how sweet thu sound……….I just feel like singing.

Mine eyes are opened!!!!!!!!the scales have fallen away.

Hey ….nothing odd about that belief. Most Baptists believe that way.er I guess all of them. No prob ….[backs off] Joy don’t have to let me back on her forum. She’s heaven bound anyhow. Foiled again.

Uuuhhhhmmmmmph[clinching dog tag in teeth] I hope LMM/B50M don’t believe in once saved always saved. No one would be safe.

If I were a betting woman, and I'm not, I'd put my money on spending every free moment lying about complete strangers on the internet.

 

Anyone who has been here a while and discussed religion with me would know that I believe in once saved, always saved.

It just occurred to me Joy, and great song there by the way. I just-didn’t-put-2-and-2- together.

I feel so much better now that I know you.

Good nite Joy, you have a nice nite.

I don't. 

 

I do believe that a lying scumbag will always be a lying scumbag. He will even lie to himself to justify his evil actions.  He will bear false witness again and again. He will pray on Sunday and lie on Monday. He will purposely hurt people in the name of his own vanity. He is a useless old fool and needs to be pitied.  May God forgive him.

 

i wake up, make 12 cups, take out garbage, go to MacDonands for wife and kids, enjoy the fresh air, come back, sit down with coffee and there's that danged cat again.

Deep it just occurred to me; I know there must be some element of fear, however small it might be, that upon your being deceased you soul could be whisked away to eternal torment. According to some on here you could assure that this is not the ultimate case for you. You could, for some short period, adopt the doctrine of Joy; once saved always saved, then return to your Godless ways of sin and upon receiving corruption enjoy salvation. Not a bad deal.

As you know, I have wrestled with how Joy could claim to be “Captain Christian” yet she sins against me, while taking a band of atheistic’cs and naughties into her bosom on that xxx-rated forum of iniquity.

Now I understand; the sins don’t count. That my friend is called designer religion.

Two kinds of religion:

1. Decorator kind. Made up of anything available at the moment ,possibly tacky to the untrained eye, hodge podge, inconsistent in color co-ordination, appealing to the non-affluent but workable.

2. Designer kind. Well researched then constructed in such a way as not to appear as unpleasant baggage to the user but allows the aire of freedom in any circumstance where sin might be the order of the day.

You know like drinking, cussin’, smoking’, dippin’, chewing etc……and oooooooooohh the nasty stuff.

Ah, the usual bizarre load of the lies from Magpie...so glad TVT allows this...why, I can't imagine why participation keeps going down.

 

According to you, Magpie, you are not a Christian; therefore, you are not qualified to tell anyone what a Christian is or should be.  Your twisted idea of 'once saved, always saved' is as false as everything else you say.

 

To refute your latest lies, a link, forum viewable to all...

 

http://alabamian.forumotion.com/

 

TVT Admin, this member has been reported and is still here.  If you allow his lies about me & others (which is breaking your own rules), a link revealing his lies about me will be my rebuttal from now on.

Hey Buff! Found ya' a new avatar...

 

Deep I guess Joy don’t want you to be once saved always saved.

I don't understand why anyone gets so upset about everyone else's beliefs.  I mean if a person "knows" in his/her heart that s/he is going to heaven, then why judge others' beliefs or why try to convince everyone else s/he is wrong?  These are all beliefs and they are on faith, so why not have your own faith, everyone, and let others have theirs?

 

I can see caring about others' not being "saved" if that is your belief system, but I don't get beating them over the head with it or calling names, degrading them, or being nasty about differences.  In the long run we all go on our own journey when it's our time to go, and if your life is the best you could make it and you did what you could do to make the world a nicer place, then what does it matter if someone believes this way or that?  In the long run if you believe in God/gods/hell/heaven/being judged it will be your life that is judged and your own record of treating others, not how many people you managed to convince your way is right.  If there is free will then why would a person be judged on others' choices?  So why not focus on what we do ourselves instead of proving everyone else wrong?

  These are all beliefs and they are on faith, so why not have your own faith, everyone, and let others have theirs?   So why not focus on what we do ourselves instead of proving everyone else wrong?

 

 

Absolutely logical, and I agree.

I agree, frog.  The message Christians were given to tell others is the message of reconciliation, not the message of condemnation.

 

"I like your Jesus, but not your Christians...your Christians are so unlike your Jesus." -- Mahatma Gandhi

 

I can see why Gandhi felt that way.  Sometimes a person claims to be a Christian, but has no idea what that means and rather that picking up a Bible to find out for themselves, they judge others based on some whacked out notions that are not even in the Bible.

Christians don't want to give up what they would have to give up to get along.

Joy dear, show me where my translation of your belief is in error. Point out why this would not work for deep. You have said harsh and hateful things about me over there and have allowed your forum members, while I admit drunken by your charm, to threaten me with bodily warm and defile my character and even allow an emissary, one LMM, to come to my forum and attack me......and claim exclusion of Gods judgement. that's what deep needs.

----------------------------------------------

I wish you were right frogette, but it ain't gonna happen.

When ninety percent are closed minded, there is only ten percent

discussion. If someone has the slightest dislike for whatever the subject

the door slams. It's come down to a brawl.

 

.

---

 

 

My dear friend Deep can speak for himself.  I guarantee you he doesn't want you of all people speaking for him.  He will let me know if he wants to discuss salvation with me...lol.

 

To refute your latest lies, a link, forum is viewable to all...

 

http://alabamian.forumotion.com/

 

TVT Admin, this member has been reported and is still here.  If you allow his lies about me & others (which is breaking your own rules), a link revealing his lies about me will be my rebuttal from now on.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

Well thanks Joy, I must have missed that one.

 

.

You are most welcome, Vic 

---

It doesn't have to be that way, though.  How sad we come to a place to discuss things and it so often turns into brawls.  A microcosm of how humans deal with each other on a larger scale...sigh.

ramm/buff/loony says:

even allow an emissary, one LMM, to come to my forum and attack me...

 

 

Joy did not even know I went to your forum until I told her.  You allowed me back in. You begged for me to come. If YOU allowed me back into YOUR forum, whose fault is it that I copied YOUR words spoken against other people?

Idiot.

I wish you were right frogette, but it ain't gonna happen.

When ninety percent are closed minded, there is only ten percent

discussion. If someone has the slightest dislike for whatever the subject

the door slams. It's come down to a brawl.

 

.

---

It doesn't have to be that way, though.  How sad we come to a place to discuss things and it so often turns into brawls.  A microcosm of how humans deal with each other on a larger scale...sigh.

I agree frog. And it doesn't have to be religion that causes the fights. Look at the hatred spewed in politics by both sides.... Look at the international scale where dictators are being toppled by the people only to be replaced with more dictators....The world has gone mad an no one cares.

LMM/b50m dear I love you, joy and all the people over there. You are just being mean for no reason. I thought y’all were christchuns.

 

b50m you, joy or anyone are welcome over there on my forum.

I think lots of people care, but they get outshouted by people who want things all run one way...theirs.  It starts one person at a time and it comes about by people making choices not to attack others or try to have all the goodies or to be the only one who is right.

 

It's the same story over and over through history, and it's like two kids fighting over a toy when it will be broken in a day and lay forgotten on the floor no matter who wins the battle.  It just doesn't have to be that way at all and you are right, b50m.  It isn't just religion, and although I don't believe that no one cares, I think it's hard for those who want to work together and find real solutions or just peacefully co-exist when so much anger is all around.  It feels like a big train full of people rolling down a hill to a ravine, and although the train has brakes everyone on the train is fighting over who gets to pull the brake lever as the train picks up speed.  

Frog, I can’t believe b50m and joy take all this dead serious. It’s funny as it can be.

I’m not serious about any of this stuff and here lΘΘk attum over there,  SWELLED UP LIKE TWO POISONED DOGS. Lol Come on b50m/LMM and Joy lighten up.

 

Frog, your post reflect how I feel too. I enjoy reading your post & believe what you speak has a lot of wisdom within. I hang around here hoping someone will say something that will turn on a light bulb within my head. Maybe say something that trigger something I've never thought about before. I've admitted being confused, & having a lot of un-answered questions but Bill Gray has to get ugly & has already condemned me to Hell. I hope you take what he says with a grain of salt.

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Mag, it's hard for to believe that you're really COC.

Is the religion forum really the place for this? Maybe you should consider moving it to the entertainment forum.

good advice semi.

 

...........well semi COC don't take wooden nickels.

I have no problem with the faith of other folks, as long as they keep it out of my business. Unfortunately, they are unable to do this.

So that is why you post on a forum in the religion section?

 

How, exactly, does religion get 'in your business'?

 

Specifics please.

     i wake up, make 12 cups, take out garbage, go to MacDonands for wife and kids, enjoy the fresh air, come back, sit down with coffee and there's that danged cat again.


Do your wife and kids know what you do when you're on the internet? Do they know you are a dirty old forum troll that harasses and stalks people on local forums and slanders and tells lies about them and their friends and then when confronted you pretend you know nothing about it and that you are the victim? You are so transparent it's sickening. No matter what new name or new id you're hiding behind.

 

 

I’ll respond to that blamed cat if you don’t mind dark. She has the burr under her saddle over me.

No you blamed cat, my wife does not approve, my kids laugh and scold me but I’m not an ex of anyone and neither is she OK. The household has computers and my wife hits me over the head when I have said things. Especially to joi. OK blamed cat?©

 

 

:copyrighted statement and cannot be reprinted in this world or the next. Under penalty of the law. 

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Because "faith" kills.  How many more children will be raped by a priest or preacher in the name of God?  How many more kids will die because their parents chose to "pay" instead of seeking medical attention? How many more women will be forced to carry an unwanted fetus to term because some preacher thinks a bundle of dividing cells equals a "human,"  How many more times will I forget to buy beer on Saturday and be denied my right to pursue happiness with a good beer or bottle of wine on Sunday because some idiot says his god says "no"?  How many more wars will be fought over differences between beliefs in invisible beings?

 

Keep your personal irrational beliefs to yourself and don't impose them on others and all will be fine.

Frog, I really don't have to tell you how irrational beliefs directly translate to evils all over this creation.  Do I? 

How many drive through restaurant shootings will there be because somebody wanted a hamburger? How many kids in Brazil will be forced into prostitution because their families were so poor they abandoned them? How many assasinations have occurred because of political beliefs? How many Mexicans died this week because of drug wars? How many drive-by shootings happened this week because of gang warfare?

 

Welcome to the real world.

 

Oh, and by the way, Sunday comes at the same time every week, so if you forgot to get your all important beer, it's your own fault.

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Of course not.  Most people have some kind of irrational belief, so that isn't surprising at all.  It is when groups decide their sets of beliefs are the only right ones and believe that everyone else should be living how they choose that the problem arises as far as I can see.

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Yes, all those things happen and I am very well aware of how the real world operates.  You make my point too, actually.  Boundary issues galore are in your list of real world occurrences, and although I realize it isn't going to change because I say it could, I still say it doesn't have to be that way.

 

And really if the law is based on religious beliefs it should be struck down.  I don't drink and don't buy alcohol, so not sure what other reason there would be not to buy on Sunday, but why should someone have to arrange his/her shopping schedule because someone else thinks there should be no beer sold on a particular day?  Boundaries again it seems to me....

if we were talking about a hundred years ago when shopping was a once a month mule cart thing, i could agree.  Every one goes somewhere almost every day.  Work, school, clubs, meetings. If you pass a Walmart or  liquor store 6 times a week, then get mad because you forgot to buy beer, it's your own fault on Sunday.

You can always go out to eat as restaurants are not restricted from serving alcohol on Sunday, unless you stay there until 2am.

''''Bars and other establishments with an on-premise license are required to stop serving alcohol at 2 a.m.'''

 

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But my point is that if the day I can grocery shop and my chance to put beer in my cart is on a Sunday, and that law is only on the books because of one group's religious beliefs regarding Sundays, alcohol, or some other aspect of buying it on Sunday, why shouldn't I be able to buy it?  Should I have to go out to eat or go drink and have to drive home when the store sells beer all the rest of the week?  It isn't the point how close I am to the store or if I can squeeze it into my busy schedule, but if a law is based on a religious belief I don't see why it should be forced on the rest of the population who might not believe.  

 

As I said, I don't want it anyway, but I don't see why it is on the books at this point in time.  Well, I do see why, but it doesn't make sense to me.  If I led a group of people who believe it is wrong to buy hamburger on Saturday and I gave my "logical" reasons why no one should buy hamburger on that day I doubt it would go very far...lol.  I'm not all worked up about it or anything, but say a group who felt pork was unclean decided no one should be allowed to buy pork...well, we know that doesn't work either.  I figure if I don't want to drink on Sunday I just won't drink on Sunday and whoever else can do what they want...just don't drink and then drink home is all I ask.

One more way they impose their will on some people for now, but most likely these stupid laws will be declared to be outdated and done away with everywhere before long.

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Blue law

but others are retained as a matter of tradition or out of convenience.^[1]

 In some places blue laws may be enforced due to religious principles

most likely these stupid laws will be declared to be outdated and done away with everywhere

 

 

A blue law is a type of law, typically found in the United States and Canada, designed to enforce religious standards, particularly the observance of Sunday as a day of worship or rest, and a restriction on Sunday shopping.

 

Guess it just sucks for anyone who has to shop on Sundays...lol.  

You can do like the christians do frog, go where you can buy booze on Sunday and lottery tickets and hope you don't run into your pals doing the same even though you know they do. That's the perks of being a christian, you get to live however you want as long as you pretend you don't do those things, and all the while you get to tell everyone else how they should live their lives.

I don't like it either.  But it's just one of those stupid laws that never got changed.  In some states, ugly people can't get married.  I wonder who gets to decide who is ugly?

 

Unlike you, who ***** and moan about it, I just wait and buy what I saw on Monday.

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Believe me, if I were doing those two things my comments wouldn't be framed as they were.  I was simply saying it doesn't make logical sense any more than many other laws based on religion do.

That comment was for UNOB!!!!!!! LOL

 

And it doesn't make logical sense, but what in government does?

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Those laws are by no means logical, I was sure glad we got rid of them a few yrs. back.

 

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