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I had no idea there were black panthers anywhere in Alabama. You learn something new every day.
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There have long been cougars in Alabama -- about 10, I believe. The black panther is a variant of the cougar/mountain lion. The old hill folk called them painters. The increase in the deer population helps.
i have spotted black panther's here locally also.
I've seen just about every other kind of critter here locally but never a panther.
Isn't Union Grove somewhere around Guntersville?
Isn't Union Grove somewhere around Guntersville?
I've seen a mountain lion about a mile north of Mt Zion church on county road 61 (Butler Creek Road) in Lauderdale County.
There has never been a documented killing of a black cougar ever.
I put a flea collar on one.
A cougar (Felis concolor) was killed by a hunter in LaGrange,Georgia a couple of years ago. Genetic investigation found it to be a "Florida panther" that somehow got way north of its range. Was it a widely-wandering wild panther or a captive specimen that escaped? We will never know. In commenting on that panther for professional purposes I will not disclose here, I wrote the following analysis:
"The Florida population of Felis concolor is likely a goner, given the genetic bottleneck that has greatly reduced its likelihood of recovery. The FWS has brought outside stock in from Texas to spike the population and presumably introduce some genetic variablilty (approximately analogous to introducing Alabama beach mice into the teeny weeny population of Perdido Key beach mice). If the Florida panther is a distinct "subspecies" (which it ain't; see below), how dare they corrupt the gene pool by bringing in these foreign cats??!!
Also, whether one is a lumper, a splitter or don't give a d a m n er, there is reason to question the current taxonomy of Felis concolor, which has been split up into a multiplicity of alleged subspecies. Consider the study by Melanie Culver, described below:
"There once were believed to be 32 subspecies of puma in North and South America. In 1999, a landmark study of puma genetics by Melanie Culver indicated that no significant genetic distinction exists among all pumas living north of Nicaragua. Unfortunately, another argument for removing the eastern puma from the Endangered Species List could be based on the results of this study. By categorizing all pumas as one species, one could assert that the eastern puma is not endangered because plenty of pumas still survive out west. This is a dangerous premise because it does not consider the critical need to preserve ecological balance throughout the east."
Link: http://www.wildliferehabsanctuary.org/puma-cougar.htm
The last-quoted three sentences above are a truly astonishing admission, however unintended. They contemplate, if not promote, perpetuation of the scientifically-incorrect mischaracterization of a multiplicity of eastern puma subspecies as a strategem to "preserve ecological balance...." "[P]reserving ecological balance, in turn, translates to
putting a lot of "panther habitat" off limits to development--save the dirt!
One must wonder why there has not been any petition to de-list the Florida panther; at least I know of no such initiative. Given the science on this matter, it would seem to be a reasonable thing to respect the science and de-list the critter as well as the several other alleged "subspecies" of Felis concolor now protected by the Endangered Species Act..
BUT--turning the matter on its head, there are actually those who promote giving ALL eastern cougars the same measure of protection afforded to the Florida un-subspecies!
From: http://www.appvoices.org/index..._corridors/issue/544
“'Our position is if that a cougar can survive in the wild and reproduce, filling the ecological niche of cougars, that’s all that should matter,' she said. A 1999 study of cougar genetics by Dr. Melanie Culver backs up that view. Her analysis of DNA from the 32 subspecies of cougar known to science found that Florida panthers, Central American catamounts, and western American cougars are genetically identical. Thus, any eastern escapees that were bred north of Panama should be treated the same as the federally protected Florida panther. 'We are blessed to have this core of habitat in which cougars could live,' Bolgiano said, referring to the band of public land stretching from Virginia to Alabama. 'The wilderness areas tend to be in the most remote areas of the southern Appalachians. Many have old-growth forests within them. Certainly this is a place in which cougars could live today.'”
Chris Boligiano is vice-president of the Eastern Cougar Foundation. The "Eastern puma" (common name used by FWS in its listing documents) is, in fact, classified as Endangered, even though the FWS considers it probably extinct. Thus, legally speaking, this presumably extinct alleged subspecies already is protected by the ESA, but not protected as much as Bolgiano wants. But I have a hard time envisioning how this presumably extinct alleged subspecies would, as a practical matter, "...be treated the same as the federally protected Florida panther." From the FWS web site:
Eastern puma (Puma concolor couguar)
Kingdom: Animalia
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Listing Status: Endangered
General Information
The cougar's Latin name gives a clue to its appearance; “concolor” means with one color, and adult cougars' fur is a uniform red-brown or gray-brown. Cougars have long, slender bodies with very long tails and broad, round heads with erect, rounded ears. Adult cats average from 6 feet (females) to 8 feet (males) long, including their tail. Males, at around 140 pounds, are larger than females at about 105 pounds. Cougars can swim, climb trees, and leap horizontally and vertically equally well. Eastern cougars' primary prey was white-tailed deer, but they also hunted eastern elk (now extinct) and porcupines and other smaller mammals. The eastern cougar (Puma concolor couguar) once roamed the eastern United States from Maine to South Carolina and west from Michigan to Tennessee. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has for years presumed the eastern couger was extinct, having no verifiable evidence, such as DNA, to the contrary.* Although many people have seen cougars in the East, and some have taken photographs, the animals sighted may not be the subspecies known as the eastern cougar."
Link: http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesPro...e.action?spcode=A046
More cougar research consistent with Culver's findings: http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/...1.1?journalCode=mamm
Should the FWS acknowledge the scientific reality that there is in fact no great multiplicity of North American panther subspecies, the issue of extinction would evaporate, since numerous genetically-identical populations exist north of Panama, including the "mountain lions" that continue to show up in California subdivisions.
"The Florida population of Felis concolor is likely a goner, given the genetic bottleneck that has greatly reduced its likelihood of recovery. The FWS has brought outside stock in from Texas to spike the population and presumably introduce some genetic variablilty (approximately analogous to introducing Alabama beach mice into the teeny weeny population of Perdido Key beach mice). If the Florida panther is a distinct "subspecies" (which it ain't; see below), how dare they corrupt the gene pool by bringing in these foreign cats??!!
Also, whether one is a lumper, a splitter or don't give a d a m n er, there is reason to question the current taxonomy of Felis concolor, which has been split up into a multiplicity of alleged subspecies. Consider the study by Melanie Culver, described below:
"There once were believed to be 32 subspecies of puma in North and South America. In 1999, a landmark study of puma genetics by Melanie Culver indicated that no significant genetic distinction exists among all pumas living north of Nicaragua. Unfortunately, another argument for removing the eastern puma from the Endangered Species List could be based on the results of this study. By categorizing all pumas as one species, one could assert that the eastern puma is not endangered because plenty of pumas still survive out west. This is a dangerous premise because it does not consider the critical need to preserve ecological balance throughout the east."
Link: http://www.wildliferehabsanctuary.org/puma-cougar.htm
The last-quoted three sentences above are a truly astonishing admission, however unintended. They contemplate, if not promote, perpetuation of the scientifically-incorrect mischaracterization of a multiplicity of eastern puma subspecies as a strategem to "preserve ecological balance...." "[P]reserving ecological balance, in turn, translates to
putting a lot of "panther habitat" off limits to development--save the dirt!
One must wonder why there has not been any petition to de-list the Florida panther; at least I know of no such initiative. Given the science on this matter, it would seem to be a reasonable thing to respect the science and de-list the critter as well as the several other alleged "subspecies" of Felis concolor now protected by the Endangered Species Act..
BUT--turning the matter on its head, there are actually those who promote giving ALL eastern cougars the same measure of protection afforded to the Florida un-subspecies!
From: http://www.appvoices.org/index..._corridors/issue/544
“'Our position is if that a cougar can survive in the wild and reproduce, filling the ecological niche of cougars, that’s all that should matter,' she said. A 1999 study of cougar genetics by Dr. Melanie Culver backs up that view. Her analysis of DNA from the 32 subspecies of cougar known to science found that Florida panthers, Central American catamounts, and western American cougars are genetically identical. Thus, any eastern escapees that were bred north of Panama should be treated the same as the federally protected Florida panther. 'We are blessed to have this core of habitat in which cougars could live,' Bolgiano said, referring to the band of public land stretching from Virginia to Alabama. 'The wilderness areas tend to be in the most remote areas of the southern Appalachians. Many have old-growth forests within them. Certainly this is a place in which cougars could live today.'”
Chris Boligiano is vice-president of the Eastern Cougar Foundation. The "Eastern puma" (common name used by FWS in its listing documents) is, in fact, classified as Endangered, even though the FWS considers it probably extinct. Thus, legally speaking, this presumably extinct alleged subspecies already is protected by the ESA, but not protected as much as Bolgiano wants. But I have a hard time envisioning how this presumably extinct alleged subspecies would, as a practical matter, "...be treated the same as the federally protected Florida panther." From the FWS web site:
Eastern puma (Puma concolor couguar)
Kingdom: Animalia
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Felidae
Listing Status: Endangered
General Information
The cougar's Latin name gives a clue to its appearance; “concolor” means with one color, and adult cougars' fur is a uniform red-brown or gray-brown. Cougars have long, slender bodies with very long tails and broad, round heads with erect, rounded ears. Adult cats average from 6 feet (females) to 8 feet (males) long, including their tail. Males, at around 140 pounds, are larger than females at about 105 pounds. Cougars can swim, climb trees, and leap horizontally and vertically equally well. Eastern cougars' primary prey was white-tailed deer, but they also hunted eastern elk (now extinct) and porcupines and other smaller mammals. The eastern cougar (Puma concolor couguar) once roamed the eastern United States from Maine to South Carolina and west from Michigan to Tennessee. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has for years presumed the eastern couger was extinct, having no verifiable evidence, such as DNA, to the contrary.* Although many people have seen cougars in the East, and some have taken photographs, the animals sighted may not be the subspecies known as the eastern cougar."
Link: http://ecos.fws.gov/speciesPro...e.action?spcode=A046
More cougar research consistent with Culver's findings: http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/...1.1?journalCode=mamm
Should the FWS acknowledge the scientific reality that there is in fact no great multiplicity of North American panther subspecies, the issue of extinction would evaporate, since numerous genetically-identical populations exist north of Panama, including the "mountain lions" that continue to show up in California subdivisions.
Darn are you one of them professor's? Great information!
=_=
:/
This is very interesting. I just saw a picture of a mountain lion, taken with a "deer camera", in Bankhead Forest. Besides, we now have an idea what Beternu does for a living! 
quote:Originally posted by astepper55:
This is very interesting. I just saw a picture of a mountain lion, taken with a "deer camera", in Bankhead Forest. Besides, we now have an idea what Beternu does for a living!
An idea, yes, but only a partial one. What you read above represents a relatively small zone of the the subject matter with which I deal professionally. I have several specialties, but wildlife is the most fun.
By the way, there are reputable reports of cougars on the Fort Morgan Peninsula, believe it or not. There is a large, undeveloped area there that is very hard to get into--sawgrass and cottonmouths (lots of 'em) territory. I've been in once and won't go again. There is good reason to believe that a small population of these cats lives there.
quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by astepper55:
This is very interesting. I just saw a picture of a mountain lion, taken with a "deer camera", in Bankhead Forest. Besides, we now have an idea what Beternu does for a living!
An idea, yes, but only a partial one. What you read above represents a relatively small zone of the the subject matter with which I deal professionally. I have several specialties, but wildlife is the most fun.
By the way, there are reputable reports of cougars on the Fort Morgan Peninsula, believe it or not. There is a large, undeveloped area there that is very hard to get into--sawgrass and cottonmouths (lots of 'em) territory. I've been in once and won't go again. There is good reason to believe that a small population of these cats lives there.
He also prefers his matini shaken, not stirred, drives an Aston Martin, and for protection utilizes the Walther ppk. He would not be afraid to show his feminine side, if he had one and when he drinks beer, he prefers Dos Equis. He is, in his opinion, the most interesting man in the world.
Wow, what an informative thread this has turned out to be.
quote:Originally posted by junior samples:
I put a flea collar on one.
I bet he/she/it wasn't licking your hand in appreciation though.
Dogs sometimes do that though.
quote:Originally posted by bluetick:quote:Originally posted by beternU:quote:Originally posted by astepper55:
This is very interesting. I just saw a picture of a mountain lion, taken with a "deer camera", in Bankhead Forest. Besides, we now have an idea what Beternu does for a living!
An idea, yes, but only a partial one. What you read above represents a relatively small zone of the the subject matter with which I deal professionally. I have several specialties, but wildlife is the most fun.
By the way, there are reputable reports of cougars on the Fort Morgan Peninsula, believe it or not. There is a large, undeveloped area there that is very hard to get into--sawgrass and cottonmouths (lots of 'em) territory. I've been in once and won't go again. There is good reason to believe that a small population of these cats lives there.
He also prefers his matini shaken, not stirred, drives an Aston Martin, and for protection utilizes the Walther ppk. He would not be afraid to show his feminine side, if he had one and when he drinks beer, he prefers Dos Equis. He is, in his opinion, the most interesting man in the world.
Horrors! Ive blown my cover!
But what is a "matini"?
quote:Originally posted by beternU:
Horrors! Ive blown my cover!
But what is a "matini"?
A Bostonian concoction I presume...
quote:Originally posted by RoadHawg:quote:Originally posted by beternU:
Horrors! Ive blown my cover!
But what is a "matini"?
A Bostonian concoction I presume...
Yeah. Ya drink it wit a nice bowl o' chowdah.
Panthers, both black and brown, have been seen in the Barton area for years. The largest goes about 150 pounds and leaves tracks the size of a grown man's balled up fist.