All Teachers Fired at Rhode Island School

It would be a great thing to see tenure done away with in every state.


way to go Rhode Island.

All children should finish school having had only first year teachers with no experience! Heavy sarcasm!

So the teachers and their union said they refused to spend more time with students to improve test scores?

How hard is it to fire a teacher with tenure?

That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:
How hard is it to fire a teacher with tenure?

Not near as hard as you may've been led to believe.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:
How hard is it to fire a teacher with tenure?

Very! However, many administrations would prefer to have all inexperienced teachers and a monetary surplus. The time to weed out an incompetent teacher is by the end of his/her third year. This is also the responsibility of the administration.

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

quote:

Originally posted by earthmomma:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:
How hard is it to fire a teacher with tenure?

Very! However, many administrations would prefer to have all inexperienced teachers and a monetary surplus. The time to weed out an incompetent teacher is by the end of his/her third year. This is also the responsibility of the administration.

So if a teacher gets tenure and then basically does nothing else (as quality teaching) what can the school system do? Would it be cheaper to keep a teacher who has basically quit on his/her students or to fire them?

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board and problems with student performance?

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

Yes, they can be. Their success isn't necessarily a function of their students' success.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

As I said though, you don't know they didn't give extra help. You only know the school board says they didn't and unless they're in the classroom, they wouldn't have a clue.

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

Yes, they can be. Their success isn't necessarily a function of their students' success.

I agree the students success level is not always the fault of the teacher.

If a teacher refuses to give extra help, is that a good teacher?

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

As I said though, you don't know they didn't give extra help. You only know the school board says they didn't and unless they're in the classroom, they wouldn't have a clue.

I have not seen them disputed that statement. That is one of the main reasons they were fired. I can't see a union rep sitting their quiet if lies are being old to the public.

I am not a teacher or on a school board. I am just trying to get a clear picture of how things work.

Why should teachers have tenure? Does tenure allow bad teachers to stay? Do unions protect bad teachers if they have tenure?

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

Yes, they can be. Their success isn't necessarily a function of their students' success.[/QUOTE]

Actually it is, a good teacher can motivate students and keep them interested in learning.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

As I said though, you don't know they didn't give extra help. You only know the school board says they didn't and unless they're in the classroom, they wouldn't have a clue.

I have not seen them disputed that statement. That is one of the main reasons they were fired. I can't see a union rep sitting their quiet if lies are being old to the public.

My understanding from reading the article is that they agreed to give the extra help but the teacher's union and school board couldn't agree on compensation for having to work those extra hours.

"The union spokesman said the teachers had accepted most of the changes but wanted to work out compensation for the extra hours of work.

The superintendent said the two sides could not agree on a pay rate."

I can't say I blame the teachers since their income is probably diddly-poo anyway.

I would guess that it wasn't the teachers but the union that is the problem. When you've got the federal government and unions involved it's not going to work very well.

quote:

Originally posted by BFred07:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

Yes, they can be. Their success isn't necessarily a function of their students' success.

Actually it is, a good teacher can motivate students and keep them interested in learning.[/QUOTE]

I used the word necessarily for a reason. It's not always that easy.

The average teacher’s salary at the high school ranges between $72,000 and $78,000 a year, because most are at the district’s top step, Gallo said.

http://www.t-six.com/news-poli...ed-all-teachers.html

quote:

Originally posted by cch123:
The average teacher’s salary at the high school ranges between $72,000 and $78,000 a year, because most are at the district’s top step, Gallo said.

http://www.t-six.com/news-poli...ed-all-teachers.html

Who is this "Mish" guy? I'm not sure if I consider this a reliable source.

However, if that is a true pay scale, I would assume they wouldn't have too much trouble finding replacement teachers.

For an area with a median income of $22k, $70k is a sweet paying job.

I work for a private school 6 miles outside of Washington DC and even our teachers don't pull $70k.

For 70k I would clean toilets if they wanted me to.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:
For 70k I would clean toilets if they wanted me to.

that's a lot of money.

Wonder if any of the new teachers will pass failing students to save there job?

The firings, which will be effective at the end of this school year, came after the district said it failed to reach an agreement with the teachers' union on a plan for the teachers to spend more time with students to improve test scores."

Yep, the old strategy of "teaching to the test" rears its ugly head again. Tutoring students with the primary objective of boosting standardized test scores has become the end-all and be-all of public school instruction. "No child left behind" strikes again!

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:

Yep, the old strategy of "teaching to the test" rears its ugly head again. Tutoring students with the primary objective of boosting standardized test scores has become the end-all and be-all of public school instruction.

I agree with this. WAAY too much effort and time spent on teaching to the test.

I can tell you that I'm not aware of any teachers here making $72,000-$78,000 unless some of the coaches drawing a coaching supplement with their teaching salary. There could be some teachers that have higher degrees making that much but just regular teachers with a master's degree do not make that much. We also eat lunch with our students EVERYDAY...especially in elementary.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by Zuter:
That's a knee-jerk decision and good luck to that school in attracting all but the most desperate teachers.

Would it not attract teachers that are willing to do the best thing for the children?

No. Think about it. If you're a successful teacher at a school, would you leave for another job with an unpredictable school board?

If a teacher is not willing to give child extra help, is he/she really successful?

Yes, they can be. Their success isn't necessarily a function of their students' success.

I agree the students success level is not always the fault of the teacher.

If a teacher refuses to give extra help, is that a good teacher?

I agree with this post. Some students are distracting and refuse to pay attention. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The teachers hands are "tied" and they're fighting a loosing battle.

quote:

Originally posted by beternU:
The firings, which will be effective at the end of this school year, came after the district said it failed to reach an agreement with the teachers' union on a plan for the teachers to spend more time with students to improve test scores."

Yep, the old strategy of "teaching to the test" rears its ugly head again. Tutoring students with the primary objective of boosting standardized test scores has become the end-all and be-all of public school instruction. "No child left behind" strikes again!

I suspect the standards and expectations are still too high. We started lowering the bar back in the late 1960's but, perhaps, still don't have it low enough. Maybe more money would help.

Is it easy to fire a teacher that comes to school drunk but has tenure?

A teacher can lose his/her license because of immorality, incompetency, or insubordination. There would probably be a big argument over the definiton of immorality. In the Sheffield case, Ii would have said the transgression constituted both immorality and insubordination(she had been warned to stop the behavior), but I am known to be a very hard nosed stubborn person. I would consider drunkenness or drinking to be grounds for dismissal, but there would have to be absolute proof as in traffic cases. I could go into a discussion of policy manuals, but it would be too long. Yes, tenure and license could be revoked according to my first sentence. And again, many times it boils down to connections of the teacher.

Are the teacher in the NY Rubber Room tenured?

Does an "elected school board" make it more difficult to dismiss an incompetent teacher?

Instead of a 'teacher' problem, it sounds more like an ineffective 'administration' problem.