quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.


I agree, the same goes for all the tax supported things like museums, parks, tv and radio stations, etc. If they can't survive on their own then there's not a need for them.
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Hey seaweed,
There you go again praising the socialist New Deal. Pres.Rosevelt was a Socialist. I don't know why you want to keep handing out the Taxpayers'mymoney. The new deal didn't work, neither does socialism.

Keep Marching,
Skippy
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.


I agree, the same goes for all the tax supported things like museums, parks, tv and radio stations, etc. If they can't survive on their own then there's not a need for them.


Yours is not a world I'd want to live in.
Look, I'm just a country boy. I grew up on a farm, helped my step-dad anyway I could raising our food to a large degree. Cows, sheep, chickens, corn, beans of all kinds, potatoes... But in the end, if your livlihood depends on a business of "a family farm", then you are missing the boat. The change in times makes it tough to see a small farm owner competing. The same reason you don't build a "family grocery" right next to the Wal-Mart Supercenter is the same reason family farms are tanking. Overhead is to high and production is too low to compete in the private sector. Farmers are not the first "family business" to struggle trying to compete with a bigger business. Have a farm, feed your family from it, but don't look for a gov't handout to keep your business afloat. Like f350 said, if you rely on gov't handouts to stay out of the red, then it's time to look for another business. That's ANY business, not just "family farms".
From Organic Consumers.org:

FACTS:

The goal of federal farm bills since the first one was passed in 1949 has been to help family farmers stay in business. But according to U.S. Agricultural Census data, more than 60 percent of U.S. small family farmers aren't even eligible for subsidies.
The number of millionaires receiving farm subsidies rose 28% when Bush took office, while Ken Lay saw his percentage of total farm subsidies rise by 400%. (Source: Taxpayer.net)
71 percent of farm subsidies go to the top 10 percent of subsidy beneficiaries, almost all of which are large farms. In 2002, 78 farms, none small or struggling, each received over a million dollars in subsidies. The bottom 80 percent of recipients average only $846 per year. (Source: Environmental Working Group)

Examples of who is currently getting farm subsidies:


Archer Daniels Midland $36,305
Boise Cascade Corporation $11,024
Caterpillar $171,698
Chevron $260,223
Deere & Company $12,875
DuPont $188,732
Georgia Pacific $37,156
International Paper $375,393
John Han**** Mutual Life Insurance $125,975
Mead Corp $15,115
Westvaco Corp $268,740

Others receiving subsidies: Eli Lilly Co, Kimberly-Clark, Navistar, Pfizer, RJ Reynolds Tobacco Co.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place.


Who do you think is getting farm subsidies? It is pure mythology if you think government programs help small family farmers. They don't. They're merely a handout to big agribusiness.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:
Alabama farmers ask Congress to protect subsidy aid cause they are unable to support themselves without a handout.

http://www.montgomeryadvertise...-protect-subsidy-aid


Andy Wendland from 1995-2009 collected $4,233,462 in subsidies.

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=01000

Top 20 Alabama moochers from 1995 to 2009

1 Benton Farms ∗ Tyler, AL 36785 $10,882,406
2 Martin Farm ∗ Courtland, AL 35618 $10,797,728
3 Newby Farms ∗ Athens, AL 35613 $9,247,631
4 Haney Farms ∗ Athens, AL 35611 $8,247,041
5 Blythe Cotton Company ∗ Town Creek, AL 35672 $7,772,935
6 Driskell Cotton Farms ∗ Grand Bay, AL 36541 $7,090,448
7 Darden Bridgeforth And Sons ∗ Tanner, AL 35671 $6,718,177
8 Lee Farm ∗ Town Creek, AL 35672 $6,443,470
9 Hamilton Farms ∗ Hillsboro, AL 35643 $6,370,600
10 Isbell Farms ∗ Muscle Shoals, AL 35662 $5,781,144
11 Wendland Farms ∗ Autaugaville, AL 36003 $5,530,172
12 Moravec Farms ∗ Saint Elmo, AL 36568 $5,377,764
13 Wiggins Farm ∗ Andalusia, AL 36420 $5,159,638
14 Helton Brothers Farm ∗ Atmore, AL 36504 $5,031,535
15 Home Place Partners ∗ Prattville, AL 36066 $4,915,084
16 Spruell Farms ∗ Mount Hope, AL 35651 $4,842,286
17 J B Hain Co ∗ Sardis, AL 36775 $4,811,736
18 Tate Farms ∗ Meridianville, AL 35759 $4,779,312
19 Westover Planting Co ∗ Eufaula, AL 36027 $4,674,399
20 Vaden Farms ∗ Florence, AL 35633 $4,600,469

http://farm.ewg.org/top_recips...l®ionname=Alabama

Congratulations, Ditzy, for headlining these rip off artists. Soon, you'll be wearing a tricorner hat and attending tea parties.
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Are you delusional, or a collector of subsidies!

"70 percent of farmers in Alabama did not collect subsidy payments - according to USDA.
Ten percent collected 81 percent of all subsidies.
Amounting to $2.03 billion over 15 years.
Top 10%: $18,696 average per year between 1995 and 2009.
Bottom 80%: $278 average per year between 1995 and 2009."

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=01000
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
From Organic Consumers.org:

FACTS:

The goal of federal farm bills since the first one was passed in 1949 has been to help family farmers stay in business. But according to U.S. Agricultural Census data, more than 60 percent of U.S. small family farmers aren't even eligible for subsidies.
The number of millionaires receiving farm subsidies rose 28% when Bush took office, while Ken Lay saw his percentage of total farm subsidies rise by 400%. (Source: Taxpayer.net)
71 percent of farm subsidies go to the top 10 percent of subsidy beneficiaries, almost all of which are large farms. In 2002, 78 farms, none small or struggling, each received over a million dollars in subsidies. The bottom 80 percent of recipients average only $846 per year. (Source: Environmental Working Group)

Examples of who is currently getting farm subsidies:


Archer Daniels Midland $36,305
Boise Cascade Corporation $11,024
Caterpillar $171,698
Chevron $260,223
Deere & Company $12,875
DuPont $188,732
Georgia Pacific $37,156
International Paper $375,393
John Han**** Mutual Life Insurance $125,975
Mead Corp $15,115
Westvaco Corp $268,740

Others receiving subsidies: Eli Lilly Co, Kimberly-Clark, Navistar, Pfizer, RJ Reynolds Tobacco Co.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Soon to be a tea partier?
No, El, but I'd sure like to see farm subsidy money go to the people it was intended for rather than big business. I don't even see why right-wingers object to subsidies. After all, they seem to want ALL the money in this country go to big business.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
No, El, but I'd sure like to see farm subsidy money go to the people it was intended for rather than big business. I don't even see why right-wingers object to subsidies. After all, they seem to want ALL the money in this country go to big business.


Could this be the beginning of someone thinking for themself instead of buying the party line? I'm about as right wing as they come (without being insanely so) and I don't want ALL the money in this country going to big business. I want everyone who works for something to get the benefit of their labors.
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
No, El, but I'd sure like to see farm subsidy money go to the people it was intended for rather than big business. I don't even see why right-wingers object to subsidies. After all, they seem to want ALL the money in this country go to big business.


Why should the government be in the business of selecting winners and losers in any endeavor. Even our tax system pits home buyers against renters; agribusiness against family farms; etc. Governments aren't very good at central planning.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Dittohead:
The subsidies are just part of the almost complete control the US government has over commodities pricing. Why does the fedgov need 5000 employees to determine the market price for milk and cheese?


Why Ditz, I think you're beginning to glimpse something! Another year, and you'll be voting Republican.
F350, I have never toed the party line. I have always thought things out issue by issue.

The problem in this country right now is that MOST people agree with whatever their party of choice tells them. Unless people start thinking for themselves we will continue to have gridlock in congress, and fools (from both sides) posting and believeing outrageous lies on internet forums such as this.
El, the reason I am all for subsidies for SMALL farms is that it is good for the nation as a whole. Small farms need them to stay in business, and we need small farms for a variety of reasons.

There is a big push right now for eating "local". Locally produced food is fresher, and more importantly, it is not trucked in from across the country. Big savings in fuel right there.

Also, a lot of the food in the grocery stores today doesn't even come from this country. We get fruit and vegetables from Chile, seafood from China, and all kinds of other things. If we eat local, we are helping AMERICANS to make a living.

Big factory farms pollute more than small farms. They use more pesticides and chemical fertilizers. AND they employ illegal immigrants.

And when all the small farms are out of business, the big factory farms will be able to set the prices wherever they want to. And they will grow only what produces the largest and fastest growing fruits and vegetables. I'd hate to see the large variety we now enjoy diminished.

And finally, locally grown food from small farms just tastes better. Think about how much better the eggs from your local farmer taste than the ones you buy in the grocery store. That is not only because they are fresher, but because of what the chickens are fed.

Your thoughts?
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Hey seaweed,
There you go again praising the socialist New Deal. Pres.Rosevelt was a Socialist. I don't know why you want to keep handing out the Taxpayers'mymoney. The new deal didn't work, neither does socialism.

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR was a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST So am I, but the better question is "why aren't you"?
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Hey seaweed,
There you go again praising the socialist New Deal. Pres.Rosevelt was a Socialist. I don't know why you want to keep handing out the Taxpayers'mymoney. The new deal didn't work, neither does socialism.

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR was a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST So am I, but the better question is "why aren't you"?


Well Seaweed where do I start.
I remember after the last Presidentual election hereing a Obama supporter stateing;"I'm so happy Barac was elected. Now I don't have to worry about my
mortgage, my car payment, my bill. Are you kidding me? If I was what you suggest, I would gladly hand over my paycheck and feel good know would help support those who just don't want to work. To know that we could be a part of the world community and pay for all the pragrams that the Secratary Gen. would no where the best place for my funding to go. The *#@! with that. I'm tired of this free loader nation. The entitlement that Socialist Democrats fill that you deserve
is breaking our country. Enough with spending by gov't that we have to borrow. ENOUGH!

Keep Marching,
Skippy
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Hey seaweed,
There you go again praising the socialist New Deal. Pres.Rosevelt was a Socialist. I don't know why you want to keep handing out the Taxpayers'mymoney. The new deal didn't work, neither does socialism.

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR was a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST So am I, but the better question is "why aren't you"?


Well Seaweed where do I start.
I remember after the last Presidentual election hereing a Obama supporter stateing;"I'm so happy Barac was elected. Now I don't have to worry about my
mortgage, my car payment, my bill. Are you kidding me? If I was what you suggest, I would gladly hand over my paycheck and feel good know would help support those who just don't want to work. To know that we could be a part of the world community and pay for all the pragrams that the Secratary Gen. would no where the best place for my funding to go. The *#@! with that. I'm tired of this free loader nation. The entitlement that Socialist Democrats fill that you deserve
is breaking our country. Enough with spending by gov't that we have to borrow. ENOUGH!

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR's new deal helped get us out of the Great Depression, and prevented any major decline in our economy for 50 years. Once the systematic dismantling of the New Deal programs , started by Reagan began to turn our country over to the corporatist, was that greed allowed to overtake what we had and provided the largest transfer of wealth from the working class to the uber-rich the world has ever seen. Plain and simple. Just amazed you can[t see that.
If you think this country's problems stem from the social safety net, you are very, very misinformed indeed. You must listen to Fox a lot.
The financial problems of this country start with the HUGE 65% of our budget that goes to the military, and corperate greed that allows us to give tax incentives to corporations for sending our jobs overseas.
Try looking at our situation through real life , instead of Fox.
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Hey seaweed,
There you go again praising the socialist New Deal. Pres.Rosevelt was a Socialist. I don't know why you want to keep handing out the Taxpayers'mymoney. The new deal didn't work, neither does socialism.

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR was a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST So am I, but the better question is "why aren't you"?


Well Seaweed where do I start.
I remember after the last Presidentual election hereing a Obama supporter stateing;"I'm so happy Barac was elected. Now I don't have to worry about my
mortgage, my car payment, my bill. Are you kidding me? If I was what you suggest, I would gladly hand over my paycheck and feel good know would help support those who just don't want to work. To know that we could be a part of the world community and pay for all the pragrams that the Secratary Gen. would no where the best place for my funding to go. The *#@! with that. I'm tired of this free loader nation. The entitlement that Socialist Democrats fill that you deserve
is breaking our country. Enough with spending by gov't that we have to borrow. ENOUGH!

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR's new deal helped get us out of the Great Depression, and prevented any major decline in our economy for 50 years. Once the systematic dismantling of the New Deal programs , started by Reagan began to turn our country over to the corporatist, was that greed allowed to overtake what we had and provided the largest transfer of wealth from the working class to the uber-rich the world has ever seen. Plain and simple. Just amazed you can[t see that.
If you think this country's problems stem from the social safety net, you are very, very misinformed indeed. You must listen to Fox a lot.
The financial problems of this country start with the HUGE 65% of our budget that goes to the military, and corperate greed that allows us to give tax incentives to corporations for sending our jobs overseas.
Try looking at our situation through real life , instead of Fox.


As to FDR, even his Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau, in 1939, stated, "We are spending more money than we have ever spent before, and it does not work. After eight years we have just as much unemployment as when we started, and an enormous debt to boot."

Sound familiar! The left will always choose doctrine over reality, no matter what! And, repeat the same mistakes over and over, hoping for a different outcome. Einstein's definition of insanity.

Seeweed, been smoking the really bad weed, again, have you! I don't know where you get the 65 percent of the budget goes to the military, but in this dimension, in 2010, it was 18.74 percent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...ding_by_category.jpg
quote:
Originally posted by O No!:
El, the reason I am all for subsidies for SMALL farms is that it is good for the nation as a whole. Small farms need them to stay in business, and we need small farms for a variety of reasons.

There is a big push right now for eating "local". Locally produced food is fresher, and more importantly, it is not trucked in from across the country. Big savings in fuel right there.

Also, a lot of the food in the grocery stores today doesn't even come from this country. We get fruit and vegetables from Chile, seafood from China, and all kinds of other things. If we eat local, we are helping AMERICANS to make a living.

Big factory farms pollute more than small farms. They use more pesticides and chemical fertilizers. AND they employ illegal immigrants.

And when all the small farms are out of business, the big factory farms will be able to set the prices wherever they want to. And they will grow only what produces the largest and fastest growing fruits and vegetables. I'd hate to see the large variety we now enjoy diminished.

And finally, locally grown food from small farms just tastes better. Think about how much better the eggs from your local farmer taste than the ones you buy in the grocery store. That is not only because they are fresher, but because of what the chickens are fed.

Your thoughts?


I have problems with seafood from China, or seafood an catfish from Viet Nam.

However, if you stop vegetables and fruits from Mexico and Chile, you should plan on eating more can goods and frozen veggies in the winter time. I remember the scarcity of fresh food in supermarkets during winter time in the 1950s and 1960s. Really do not wish to go back to that era.

As I've shown, small scale farmers rarely received subsidies. Remove subsidies from the large farms and the small ones will be able to compete even easier.
quote:
Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.


I agree, the same goes for all the tax supported things like museums, parks, tv and radio stations, etc. If they can't survive on their own then there's not a need for them.


Yours is not a world I'd want to live in.


Ditto.
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Originally posted by Opie Cunningham:
quote:
Originally posted by ferrellj:
quote:
Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.


I agree, the same goes for all the tax supported things like museums, parks, tv and radio stations, etc. If they can't survive on their own then there's not a need for them.


Yours is not a world I'd want to live in.


Ditto.

+1
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
quote:
Originally posted by skippy delepepper:
quote:
Originally posted by seeweed:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by F350:
I feel like all farm subsidies should be abolished. If your business depends on government subsidies to survive then you have a poor business model.

Only if you wish to see the family farm disappear and the multinational owned mega-farms take their place. Something also would help the family farms is re-instituting the New Deal restrictions on Wall Street speculation of commodities.


Hey seaweed,
There you go again praising the socialist New Deal. Pres.Rosevelt was a Socialist. I don't know why you want to keep handing out the Taxpayers'mymoney. The new deal didn't work, neither does socialism.

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR was a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST So am I, but the better question is "why aren't you"?


Well Seaweed where do I start.
I remember after the last Presidentual election hereing a Obama supporter stateing;"I'm so happy Barac was elected. Now I don't have to worry about my
mortgage, my car payment, my bill. Are you kidding me? If I was what you suggest, I would gladly hand over my paycheck and feel good know would help support those who just don't want to work. To know that we could be a part of the world community and pay for all the pragrams that the Secratary Gen. would no where the best place for my funding to go. The *#@! with that. I'm tired of this free loader nation. The entitlement that Socialist Democrats fill that you deserve
is breaking our country. Enough with spending by gov't that we have to borrow. ENOUGH!

Keep Marching,
Skippy


FDR's new deal helped get us out of the Great Depression, and prevented any major decline in our economy for 50 years. Once the systematic dismantling of the New Deal programs , started by Reagan began to turn our country over to the corporatist, was that greed allowed to overtake what we had and provided the largest transfer of wealth from the working class to the uber-rich the world has ever seen. Plain and simple. Just amazed you can[t see that.
If you think this country's problems stem from the social safety net, you are very, very misinformed indeed. You must listen to Fox a lot.
The financial problems of this country start with the HUGE 65% of our budget that goes to the military, and corperate greed that allows us to give tax incentives to corporations for sending our jobs overseas.
Try looking at our situation through real life , instead of Fox.[/QUOTE

Im sorry seaweed you and rocky are WRONG.

The mentality of Wilson. The programs of FDR and the stupidity of Carter is the reason we are such a country of people that think the gov't should do and give them everything. When the gov't gives out a welfare checks, food stamps, subsidies, grants( exaple: In Nevada old Harry in your pocket is pulling for a cowboy poetry festival in N.NV), money givin to the UN were we support the bulk of, money givin to any foriegn country, eccessive gov't employees(I didn' say workers because that would cover less than half(military, police, firefighters excluded)). Money to pork, money to that. When does it end. Reagan cut our taxes and boosted our economy. He brought back respect to our nation. He helped and bring freedom to many communist countries, like the ones you love to admire.
Im for cutting military waste of coarse, and there is alot. But if it is necessary in these dangerous times for our military to recieve the bulk of our budget, so be it. We need to put a cut off age on S.S. and medicare and privatise it. Higher taxes are not the answers. And as for FOX News. I am old enough that Fox News was created for people like me. No nonsense people who believe in the Constitution as it was written by our Countries Founders. And folks tired of hearing the sugar-coated, tingle up your leg libral news programs that are brain-washing our youth into thinking the gov't owes them a living.
Again we are a Republic and not a socialist democracy. Look it up a Republic. Read the Constitution for once. Get a job flippin burgers if you have to. Quit
winning for your gov't pacifier and get to work.


Keep Marching to a Republican Victory,
Skippy


And remember if it is'nt on FOX it isn't FACT.

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