I’m honestly not pulling a Bill here by starting a topic about another topic. Since Bill has refused to answer my last question in “Is It Belittling To Warn Of Mormonism's Cult Teachings?”, I’m sincerely interested in your opinions.

 

In that topic, Bill claims to care about my soul & where I’m going when I die. He offered to chat with me by Private Message, e-mail, or even telephone. (He’s hoping to win another diamond for his crown)

 

As we all know, Bill believes in Once Saved, Always Saved, (Eternal Security).

There’s two things he mentioned in that topic that really stood out to me. But this is the Biggie! “I do care about your relationship with God and I will do whatever I can to help you restore it."

 

RESTORE IT?????  To be able to restore something, don’t we have to lose it first?

My question to Bill was “ If you believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, how can that be? A person would have to lose something to be able to restore it.”

 

Bill claims that once we’re saved, it’s impossible to become un-saved. I’ve given him scripture after scripture in other topics that denies that claim but he never responds.

Usually when Bill doesn’t answer our questions, it’s because he can’t. He has stepped knee deep in mud & no way for him to back track.

I, of course, don’t believe in OSAS but I’m just curious in how you see this.

 

Am I wrong in the way I’m seeing what he said? Am I missing something in what he wrote? I would love to hear your opinions.

Original Post

Semi, this dilemma of yours is so unnecessary and such an easy fix. I’m the only COC on here and he never preaches to me. Why is that? Simply he understands the COC has *****ed every crack of argument using only the Bible and not man-made commentaries or dreamt up ideas. Bill is solid in the faith. His idea of rapture is not supported by the COC nor is the once saved doctrine. My advice to you is to not be bothered and quit with this charade. Nobody could possibly be this concerned about what Bill says . I think he’ a great guy myself.

I don't think you're wrong at all. Bill's MO is to drop his little insult bombs and false statements and then drop the subject when you confront him about them, or he will run off and make a new stupid thread. Look at the threads he makes and you'll see they're mostly just his little snarky comments about someone. His latest is a jab at NSNS and Frog. I can't imagine anyone being "brought to god" by anything bill would have to say. You can't be nice to him because he uses it to say you agree with him and he's so glad you finally see it his way blah blah blah, and thinks that gives him the right to belittle you in the guise of "caring about you".  I would bet any money that he runs to that preacher and congregation of his little podunk church and "reports" how he is "winning souls for the lord" and fighting the evils of atheism and other religions.  It's like a man that rides a moped imagining he's riding a GoldWing.

 

 

In my opinion no one should tell another how to live their life or what to believe. Unless  a person is harming others in his or her actions. A human being or Christian for the sake of the discussion, should be kind and care for one another but never dictate.  I believe no mater what one believes, if one lives by the rule of love, one will be saved. But if someone just accepts Jesus Christ as her or his Savoir and believes in my opinion and belief that person is not saved just by that act. Once Saved Always Saved doesn’t make sense. What if a person has accepted Jesus Christ repents of their sins if they’ve been bad. Then this person is goes twenty years sin free and gets pis*sed at his or her spouse. Shoots her or him (which would be enough by it’s self) then goes on a killing rampage? Although I don’t believe in a burning hell, I believe that we who try to love will not be placed by evil people after our final judgment. These people that chose hatred and evil will just have each other for comfort for the eternities. A person in my opinion will be judged by their goodness in them and how they treated their fellow beings in this life. OSAS If that were all there is to it, why would someone even bother to try to be the person they should if they were one of those type humans that are in my opinion prone to evil? Some people just enjoy being evil to their fellow beings.

Skippy

Originally Posted by HomesickGirl:

If someone correctly articulates the beliefs, it is not belittling.  And I do know the meaning of the word.  

********************************************************************************************************************

 

Once more, bill has no facts about the people he tries to belittle. And no, you don't know the meaning of the word.

I have no desire to join in on the snide remarks so I will only post to the original question.  I do not read all of Bill's postings so I do not know exactly what he has posted that you perceive that he has misinterpreted.  But as to the "once saved, always saved" I do interpret and believe that once a person has become a child of God they are always a child of God.  (The Bible teaches He is my Father once I accept Him as my Saviour - just as nothing can ever change who my father on earth is, God will aways be my Spiritual Father) One can break fellowship (fall into habitual sin and not live according to what His Word teaches) with Him and that fellowship can be restored through repentance.  Perhaps Bill used the word "relationship" when "fellowship" might have better described what he intended.

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well, & the intent of this topic. I know what OSAS means & don't believe in it, never have, never will. I didn't start this to make Bill look bad, he does that all on his own.

My intent was to get an opinion if anyone sees this as I do? He says he believes in OSAS, but he wanted to help me "restore" my relationship with God. Bill has claimed that I've never been saved, that I'm going to hell, so if he believes that, how can he help me restore something I've never had or something I have lost? As I said, to be able to restore something, you had to have had it at one time & then lost it.

Originally Posted by Magpie:

Semi, this dilemma of yours is so unnecessary and such an easy fix. I’m the only COC on here and he never preaches to me. Why is that? Simply he understands the COC has *****ed every crack of argument using only the Bible and not man-made commentaries or dreamt up ideas. Bill is solid in the faith. His idea of rapture is not supported by the COC nor is the once saved doctrine. My advice to you is to not be bothered and quit with this charade. Nobody could possibly be this concerned about what Bill says . I think he’ a great guy myself.

*******************************************************************************************

My dilemma? Quit this charade? No, you're not the only COC on here, there are at least two more that have mentioned in the past of being COC. I've never said Bill isn't solid in his faith, but I have said he's wrong in his delivery of Christianity. 

Maybe he hasn't preached to you because you've never challenged anything he has said. I've seen Bill run down the belief of the COC, just as he has every religion he doesn't agree with.

My only concern with Bill is the way he is so quick to judge everyone. He has no love/compassion for his fellow man. If you think he's such a great man, then you would have to support his arrogant, judgmental ways of us all. That statement alone says a lot about you. 

Originally Posted by Shoals Resident:

I will only post to the original question.  I do not read all of Bill's postings so I do not know exactly what he has posted that you perceive that he has misinterpreted.  Perhaps Bill used the word "relationship" when "fellowship" might have better described what he intended.

You misunderstood the original question, or maybe I didn't explain myself very well. I didn't perceive that he misinterpreted anything. If he believes I'm going to hell, which he has often said, believes in OSAS, then how can he help me "restore" my relationship with God?

He used the word he intended to use. In my opinion, to have "fellowship" with someone, you would have to have somewhat of a "relationship" to begin with.

Originally Posted by HomesickGirl:

Not belittling if you state the facts.

************************************************************************************

What if the facts that person is stating is untrue?

 

(Belittling is used to disparage a person, to put them in a negative light, with the intent to make them seem less than they are)

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Most of you people are still addicted to being duped.

Addicted as in, duped over and over by the same ridiculous posts.

Billie-jo laughs about the scams, but I'm sure he's laughing with you.

 

.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Addicted to being duped?  Huh???

Oh....."coercion." Nevermind.  Coercion only works on people that allow themselves to be coerced.  I laugh too. They're hilariously entertaining.

 

Semi: 

Every time some GZ tells me to "REPENT!!" (Somebody yelled that to me from the corner of Locust & W. Irvine yesterday), I tell 'em I wasn't pent in the first place. I don't need to be re-pent.

 

Pray/don't pray.....worship/don't worship......believe/disbelieve.....I personally don't think it has any bearing whatsoever on the final outcome of things.  All it can do is make ya feel better while yer still here about eventually not being here.

 

What BeeG is doing is like arguing whether Harry Potter beats Gandalf, or whether Klingons beat Kardassians.  What does it matter?  They're all made-up anyway.

 

I think BeeG is telling you (and everybody else) with all his might that his magic beats our magic because I think he really needs to keep convincing himself of it as well. (Him being a fairly recent convert to the magic and all). He's a scared old man-afraid of death 'cause he may or may not be getting close to it.  I'm guessing he's trying to hedge his bet the only way he knows how. 

 

Like I keep saying-Nobody really wants to die. Life, we know, death is scary unknown stuff. All we know is what it looks like from the outside and it scares the crap outta us-So we tend to make up stuff about it that isn't so scary.

 

If ya really believe in something-It isn't necessary to constantly try to reinforce the belief.  It just IS.

 

I say believe whatever gets ya through a day. Ta heck with what BeeG tells ya. All he needs to worry about is his own ass and all you gotta think about is yours in that respect.

 

Who tha heck is HE to tell ya you're doing it wrong? Who is ANYBODY to tell ya that? Whadda they know?

 

My advice: Don't waste another minute of your life running in tight little circles building your coffin. Live now while you're still here.

 

If there's a god and he's as just and compassionate as they say-I'm pretty sure he'll understand.

If not-Then at least you'll die knowing that you truly lived.

 

 

But then.....What do *I* know?

 

 

/shrug

 

 

 

 


 

RP, believe it or not there are plenty of  people who are not afraid to die. I'm one of them. Now that "said" let me say further I am hoping it is a long way off. I love my life, my family, my friends and want as much time with them as possible. I want to be here for them, not for me. It's true that everyone thinks of what happens after they die, BUT in different ways. I think of what will happen HERE after I die and that's why I say I want to be here for my family as long as possible. I know how it felt to lose my dad as a teen, and I was still very young when I lost my mom. So my thoughts or worries about death are about my loved ones, not what happens to me after I die. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense.

I know everybody looks at the same things differently.

 

I lost just about everybody in my 'family' fairly early on in life. The ones that mattered, anyway.

 

I'm not so much afraid to die as I am afraid to die before I've lived all that I can.

Good, bad, or ugly, I'm havin' a helluva good time here livin' and I'd hate for it to end too soon.

 

We all know we're eventually gonna take that big dirt-nap. 

 

Fear of death is what has kept us alive up to now. It's instinctive to fear death.

I think some fear it more than others-hence the need for some to make up religions to make it seem not so scary.

 

 

Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
 
Semi: 

Every time some GZ tells me to "REPENT!!" (Somebody yelled that to me from the corner of Locust & W. Irvine yesterday), I tell 'em I wasn't pent in the first place. I don't need to be re-pent.

Pray/don't pray.....worship/don't worship......believe/disbelieve.....I personally don't think it has any bearing whatsoever on the final outcome of things.  All it can do is make ya feel better while yer still here about eventually not being here.

What BeeG is doing is like arguing whether Harry Potter beats Gandalf, or whether Klingons beat Kardassians.  What does it matter?  They're all made-up anyway.

I think BeeG is telling you (and everybody else) with all his might that his magic beats our magic because I think he really needs to keep convincing himself of it as well. (Him being a fairly recent convert to the magic and all). He's a scared old man-afraid of death 'cause he may or may not be getting close to it.  I'm guessing he's trying to hedge his bet the only way he knows how.

Like I keep saying-Nobody really wants to die. Life, we know, death is scary unknown stuff. All we know is what it looks like from the outside and it scares the crap outta us-So we tend to make up stuff about it that isn't so scary.

If ya really believe in something-It isn't necessary to constantly try to reinforce the belief.  It just IS.

I say believe whatever gets ya through a day. Ta heck with what BeeG tells ya. All he needs to worry about is his own ass and all you gotta think about is yours in that respect.

Who tha heck is HE to tell ya you're doing it wrong? Who is ANYBODY to tell ya that? Whadda they know?

My advice: Don't waste another minute of your life running in tight little circles building your coffin. Live now while you're still here.

If there's a god and he's as just and compassionate as they say-I'm pretty sure he'll understand.

If not-Then at least you'll die knowing that you truly lived.

But then.....What do *I* know?

 /shrug

***************************************************************

Thank you, pup. I say you know quite a bit. Everything you said is true & you brought up some things that has set me to thinking but in a good way. I am coming to realize (I knew it before but somehow lost it along the way) that Bill is an old man so set in his ways to the point that there is no room in him to learn. You kinda have to feel sorry for people like that.

I learn new things every day & I would never close my mind to keep learning.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Most of you people are still addicted to being duped.

Addicted as in, duped over and over by the same ridiculous posts.

Billie-jo laughs about the scams, but I'm sure he's laughing with you.

 

.

 

I think you're right, but I would say he's laughing at us, not with us. Bill is using every one of us for his religious writings & making us look like stupid ass rednecks. Those people that read his writings think he's wonderful & brave for coming into this "lions den" to fight the lions (us) in the name of Christ.

I remember once he posted the link on here to that paper he writes. In it, he had quoted Deep, fish, & a few more of us. He even mentioned in his paper, the name of this forum. Of course, he didn't quote what some of us thought of him. He had to make himself look as good as possible.

 

I, for one, am going to stop giving him ideas of things to write about & trying to make me look like a fool. It's no use to argue with him, he refuses to think that he might be wrong. Most people are willing to learn, to think that they could learn something from something someone says. Not Bill, he already knows it all.

He talks of being proud of his Southern upbringing but he's doing his best to make the people from the South look like dumb hillbilly's.

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Most of you people are still addicted to being duped.

Addicted as in, duped over and over by the same ridiculous posts.

Billie-jo laughs about the scams, but I'm sure he's laughing with you.

 

.

 Invictus, you make such a post even though you are duped by every claim of a "miracle" that you see? BTW, a dog groomer found jesus on a dog's belly. I'm sure now that all the faithful will be lining up to see and touch the poor dog's tummy and ****. Bill doesn't "dupe" anyone. He loses at every turn.

 

Originally Posted by Jennifer:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Most of you people are still addicted to being duped.

Addicted as in, duped over and over by the same ridiculous posts.

Billie-jo laughs about the scams, but I'm sure he's laughing with you.

 

.

 Invictus, you make such a post even though you are duped by every claim of a "miracle" that you see? BTW, a dog groomer found jesus on a dog's belly. I'm sure now that all the faithful will be lining up to see and touch the poor dog's tummy and ****. Bill doesn't "dupe" anyone. He loses at every turn.

 

---------------------------------------

You didn't say where the dog is, I guess if it were up Billie je's nose we

would see another thread.

.

Pray/don't pray.....worship/don't worship......believe/disbelieve.....I personally don't think it has any bearing whatsoever on the final outcome of things.  All it can do is make ya feel better while yer still here about eventually not being here.

 


Road Puppy, the above and the rest of your post made a lot of sense to me.  

Originally Posted by Jennifer:

I stand corrected. I had only glanced at the jesus on the dog picture and thought it was on his tummy. (It was a close up picture) It's on his rear end. Yikes.


I didn't see that, but that sounds as if it could be a good thing...lol.

 

I don't quite get (except on the level of it is part of some people's religion) why anyone would assume that someone else needs to be "saved" or their anything be "restored".  Isn't it a bit arrogant to believe that we have the path for every single person on the planet?  That is a crap load of people who mostly found their own path without us, so why on earth would we  be pushing our own system of belief on others no matter what religion we might happen to be?  (I know...it is part of the religion sometimes, but I mean a reason besides someone told us we have to do that?)

It seems to me that Bill uses religion to justify his nastiness. He slams people around and justifies it by saying he is saving them.

 

      I know for a fact that Mormonism is NOT a cult at all and the things they teach are truths if people want to believe it or not. 

 

    No other religion teaches the importance of Power and Authority from God to act in His name.

      No other religion teaches that we are Gods literal children.

      No other religion teaches where we came from.

      No toher religion teaches that Families can be together forever.

      No other religion answers the question if God has a body of flesh and BONES.

      No other religion answers the question of why babies are born with a personality.

      No other religion teaches what the purpose of life is.

      No other religion teaches Gods Plan of Salvation.

 

All the religions out there claiming to be Christians and fighting eachother and teaching different doctrines are not Gods Church. God is a God of order!

 

Keep the religion you have , I won't try to convert anyone to Mormonism at all but when the time is right, Gods Holy Spirit will!

Wooley

 

 

Of course, if any of us say theirs is the "true" religion that is the same as everyone else saying it.  It is faith and opinion and if someone is happy and not hurting others cool.  But everyone with a religion (and some without one) who say theirs is the only or true or best one can't all be right...interesting that so many feel so strongly about being right on this topic and that for soem there is no room for any other belief systems.

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