Skip to main content

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Cash is a problem over there. USD are the only thing that are worth anything. There was no banking infastructue. Everyone from the airlines to our sub contractors had to be paid in cash. It was not uncommon to send a project manager to the field with 300 to 400K to pay iraqui subcontractors and whatever ministry you had to buy permits from. This dosent mean that cash shouldnt be tracked and accounted for. Its simply the only way to trade, dont leave home without it.
What are you upset over? We returned their money to their government. It was money we held in safekeeping until their government was up and running. I look at it as we were the banker and they made a withdrawl. Although there is a possiblility somebody in Iraq might have unlawfully gotten some of it, there has been no evidence of that so far.

I don't mean for this question to be construed as a flame, or hateful. I'd really like to hear your response.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:I don't mean for this question to be construed as a flame, or hateful. I'd really like to hear your response.


I apologize. In my haste, I posted the wrong link. Working you know. Wink

See here.

some excerpts:

"The US flew nearly $12bn in shrink-wrapped $100 bills into Iraq, then distributed the cash with no proper control over who was receiving it and how it was being spent."

"One CPA official described an environment awash in $100 bills," the memorandum says. "One contractor received a $2m payment in a duffel bag stuffed with shrink-wrapped bundles of currency. Auditors discovered that the key to a vault was kept in an unsecured backpack.

"They also found that $774,300 in cash had been stolen from one division's vault. Cash payments were made from the back of a pickup truck, and cash was stored in unguarded sacks in Iraqi ministry offices. One official was given $6.75m in cash, and was ordered to spend it in one week before the interim Iraqi government took control of Iraqi funds."

To oversee the expenditure the CPA was supposed to appoint an independent certified public accounting firm. "Instead the CPA hired an obscure consulting firm called North Star Consultants Inc. The firm was so small that it reportedly operates out of a private home in San Diego." Mr Bowen found that the company "did not perform a review of internal controls as required by the contract".

and the clencher:

Bremer's financial adviser, retired Admiral David Oliver, is even more direct. The memorandum quotes an interview with the BBC World Service. Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."

Q: "But the fact is billions of dollars have disappeared without trace."

Oliver: "Of their money. Billions of dollars of their money, yeah I understand. I'm saying what difference does it make?"
It is THEIR money that WE held for them??? But WE are paying for the WAR over there???? NO PAYBACK FOR US???

This whole thing turns my stomach, and it is a Political maneuver to pocket the money...

So, if they send a few thousand to pay people, granted, but my God, we are talking BILLIONS... THIS TIME!!! Lord only knows HOW many times this has happened in the past...

I wish Bush/Cheney would have to account for every single cent of American Money that has been funneled over there and Afganastan... AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE LOST!!!

That is just what is deserved in this situation.
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
It is THEIR money that WE held for them??? But WE are paying for the WAR over there???? NO PAYBACK FOR US???

This whole thing turns my stomach, and it is a Political maneuver to pocket the money...

So, if they send a few thousand to pay people, granted, but my God, we are talking BILLIONS... THIS TIME!!! Lord only knows HOW many times this has happened in the past...

I wish Bush/Cheney would have to account for every single cent of American Money that has been funneled over there and Afganastan... AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE LOST!!!

That is just what is deserved in this situation.


So, you're saying we should only go to war for profit? Or is it ok if we only break even?

The money was funds from their government accounts, and the money seized from Saddam.

Does your banker tell you how to spend your money? Mine doesn't. That's what we acted as with this....their banker. They made a withdrawl and are spending and giving it away foolishly. It ain't the banker's fault..it's their fault.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
okay sassy kims i do agree with you on that one,we have no right to tell them how to spend their money.
WHY are WE building their schools again now?


The same reason we helped dig the victims of the 2004 Tsunami out from under buildings and debris, and sent food and medical supplies to them. Humanitarian relief. We started rebuilding the schools before they had a government up an running to manage on their own.

I do agree that they should take over and foot the bill. If they want to be big boys and handle their own money and have a parliment or congress or whatever, they should be willing to shoulder responsibility.
quote:
The same reason we helped dig the victims of the 2004 Tsunami out from under buildings and debris, and sent food and medical supplies to them. Humanitarian relief. We started rebuilding the schools before they had a government up an running to manage on their own.


you are comparing apples to oranges, the war which WE started, is a far cry different from a natural occuring violent act of the earth itself. The 2 are in NO WAY in comparison
What happened to all the BS spread the lack of schools because Saddam was such a bad ruler and education was only to be limited to a certain few,and that was to be males? That WAS one of the sales pitches used,remember......
They are liberated, the monies belonging to Iraq have been unfrozen, let them build their own schools. THE ONLY thing i see we should even HELP with would be to ASSIST in things we destroyed,but only to assist,afterall does Iraq not appreciate their freedom we gave them?
Smurph, it's obvious that you are opposed to the war. I can accept that.

Whether a terrorist bomb blows up a electrical substation, or a tornado takes it out, it still has to be replaced. To the people who depend on electricity from that substation, it matters not whether the terrorist is forced to rebuild it, or the electric company does it, just as long as it's back in place.

The children attending those schools don't care if they are being rebuilt because of bombings, or built anew becase there had not been one before.

I agreed with you that the Iraqis need to become self sufficient. I also know getting a country up and running is kind of like teaching a kid to ride a bike....you gotta run along side of them a while and help hold them up, and even expect a scraped knee every now and then.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
I agreed with you that the Iraqis need to become self sufficient. I also know getting a country up and running is kind of like teaching a kid to ride a bike....you gotta run along side of them a while and help hold them up, and even expect a scraped knee every now and then.


I guess I've just never thought about trying to teach someone else's kid how to ride. Or needing to, for that matter...
quote:
Originally posted by e:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
I agreed with you that the Iraqis need to become self sufficient. I also know getting a country up and running is kind of like teaching a kid to ride a bike....you gotta run along side of them a while and help hold them up, and even expect a scraped knee every now and then.

It's like this e... we are the Big Brother from BB/BS who is helping out the kid we volunteered to help with.

I guess I've just never thought about trying to teach someone else's kid how to ride. Or needing to, for that matter...
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by Kindred_Spirit:
It is THEIR money that WE held for them??? But WE are paying for the WAR over there???? NO PAYBACK FOR US???

This whole thing turns my stomach, and it is a Political maneuver to pocket the money...

So, if they send a few thousand to pay people, granted, but my God, we are talking BILLIONS... THIS TIME!!! Lord only knows HOW many times this has happened in the past...

I wish Bush/Cheney would have to account for every single cent of American Money that has been funneled over there and Afganastan... AND EVERY SINGLE LIFE LOST!!!

That is just what is deserved in this situation.


So, you're saying we should only go to war for profit? Or is it ok if we only break even?

The money was funds from their government accounts, and the money seized from Saddam.

Does your banker tell you how to spend your money? Mine doesn't. That's what we acted as with this....their banker. They made a withdrawl and are spending and giving it away foolishly. It ain't the banker's fault..it's their fault.


Are YOU saying that we go to war in a place that don't want us, pretends to want us, did nothing to us and WE have to pay Billions on top of BILLIONS on top of BILLIONS??? And then some of that stolen???? Hmmmmmmm, weird view in my way of thinking.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
okay sassy kims i do agree with you on that one,we have no right to tell them how to spend their money.
WHY are WE building their schools again now?


Before this is over, we will be rebuilding their entire country!!! If I was holding $100 for you, then something happened and I spent a Million on you, then should I give that $100 back? I mean, think about it... what WE are paying and doing is not a needle in a hay stack to what we were supposedly holding. Besides, Truckloads of THEIR money went to Syria (sp?) as soon as all this mess started... they still have money, it is just not ALL in our hands.

The beauty of the beast in this situation... I guess it is a win/win situation for Iraq, and a lose/lose situation for the USA.... Or at least everything I have read, heard and been told, it is that way.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
okay sassy kims i do agree with you on that one,we have no right to tell them how to spend their money.
WHY are WE building their schools again now?


The same reason we helped dig the victims of the 2004 Tsunami out from under buildings and debris, and sent food and medical supplies to them. Humanitarian relief. We started rebuilding the schools before they had a government up an running to manage on their own.

I do agree that they should take over and foot the bill. If they want to be big boys and handle their own money and have a parliment or congress or whatever, they should be willing to shoulder responsibility.



Comparing apples to oranges... the tsumani was an Act of God.. like a Hurricane, a Tornado... anything like that... Did WE cause the tsumani? NO, but in a situation like that, where a LOT of our people were there, of course we should help... no doubt about that.
quote:
Originally posted by smurph:
quote:
The same reason we helped dig the victims of the 2004 Tsunami out from under buildings and debris, and sent food and medical supplies to them. Humanitarian relief. We started rebuilding the schools before they had a government up an running to manage on their own.


ooops, should have read your reply first!!!! We were saying just about the same thing, sorry... next time I shall read first, reply later, lol

you are comparing apples to oranges, the war which WE started, is a far cry different from a natural occuring violent act of the earth itself. The 2 are in NO WAY in comparison
What happened to all the BS spread the lack of schools because Saddam was such a bad ruler and education was only to be limited to a certain few,and that was to be males? That WAS one of the sales pitches used,remember......
They are liberated, the monies belonging to Iraq have been unfrozen, let them build their own schools. THE ONLY thing i see we should even HELP with would be to ASSIST in things we destroyed,but only to assist,afterall does Iraq not appreciate their freedom we gave them?
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
Smurph, it's obvious that you are opposed to the war. I can accept that.

Whether a terrorist bomb blows up a electrical substation, or a tornado takes it out, it still has to be replaced. To the people who depend on electricity from that substation, it matters not whether the terrorist is forced to rebuild it, or the electric company does it, just as long as it's back in place.

The children attending those schools don't care if they are being rebuilt because of bombings, or built anew becase there had not been one before.

I agreed with you that the Iraqis need to become self sufficient. I also know getting a country up and running is kind of like teaching a kid to ride a bike....you gotta run along side of them a while and help hold them up, and even expect a scraped knee every now and then.


Wrong, if you are calling the bombings over there terrorist activities, then in effect you are calling us that... because we have damaged many a building ourselves, and in NO WAY can it even closely resemble a natural disaster...

This will be a WHOLE LOT more like teaching a kid how to ride a bike, it will be more like teaching them to drive Cadillac's... Let them do it for themselves!!! We freed them, we helped them have their 'election' and now we should LEAVE and let them have their country and by the way they have so much money stored that WE DON'T have it is unreal.
quote:
Wrong, if you are calling the bombings over there terrorist activities, then in effect you are calling us that... because we have damaged many a building ourselves, and in NO WAY can it even closely resemble a natural disaster...


I was NOT calling the bombings in Iraq "terrorist activities"....I was not speaking of any incident in Iraq, or any other specific place when I used that example. It was a non specific example.....not one that has actually happened....it could have happened anywhere on the face of the earth to any country and the facts would have remained the same. It matters not if it's a natural disaster or man made, it still has to be repaired.
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Wrong, if you are calling the bombings over there terrorist activities, then in effect you are calling us that... because we have damaged many a building ourselves, and in NO WAY can it even closely resemble a natural disaster...


I was NOT calling the bombings in Iraq "terrorist activities"....I was not speaking of any incident in Iraq, or any other specific place when I used that example. It was a non specific example.....not one that has actually happened....it could have happened anywhere on the face of the earth to any country and the facts would have remained the same. It matters not if it's a natural disaster or man made, it still has to be repaired.


Okay, I misunderstood your full meaning between the two comparisons... but still have to say to you that in NO way can you compare war and demolition associated with it to an Act of God, a Natural Disaster... they just are not comparable.

Of course it has to be fixed, but why does the whole world have to be fixed at the hand of the United States, when we cannot even fix ourselves?
Heub Heub posted this, "Cash is a problem over there. USD are the only thing that are worth anything. There was no banking infastructue. Everyone from the airlines to our sub contractors had to be paid in cash. It was not uncommon to send a project manager to the field with 300 to 400K to pay iraqui subcontractors and whatever ministry you had to buy permits from. This dosent mean that cash shouldnt be tracked and accounted for. Its simply the only way to trade, dont leave home without it."

He is correct, in all war zones, when a government is toppled, the currency becomes worthless, In most cases the local money ie exchanged for Scrip that is used until a new system is put in place. The reason that Scrip is used is that it ONLY has value the way tokes do...inside the country.

This cash was being used, ostensibly to pay contractors for work done, and to pay salaries of people working for the USA. It was most certainly NOT all Iraqi money, though some of it must have been.

As a general rule, about ten percent of all money in a war zone is STOLEN. There are people in Iraq, IN OUR FORCES, getting rich by fraudulent means. There are people in most city police departments doing the same thing. THE WAR IS THE ISSUE. MORALITY AND WAR CAMMPT CO EXIST.

Add Reply

Post

Untitled Document
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×