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Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by onepatriot7:
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Originally posted by beternU:
cccc


thanks for bringing this post back up, after reading thru it i have come to the realization that you betern-nothing, are a bigger piece of dropped dingle-berry than i had first thought. i would love to meet you face to face just so i could tell you exactly what i think.


I don't have to meet you facte to face to tell you what I think. I think you are an ignorant and clueless buumpkin who has no understanding of just how harmful to the native animals it is to have free-roaming cats on the loose. I have posted detailed information from the experts in the field, which is in agreement with my opinion on this issue. You and others who have blind emotional attachments to cats are so deluded that you will never see the light.


Coward!! don't like to talk? Jack-A55!!
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Originally posted by onepatriot7:
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Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by onepatriot7:
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Originally posted by beternU:
cccc


thanks for bringing this post back up, after reading thru it i have come to the realization that you betern-nothing, are a bigger piece of dropped dingle-berry than i had first thought. i would love to meet you face to face just so i could tell you exactly what i think.


I don't have to meet you facte to face to tell you what I think. I think you are an ignorant and clueless buumpkin who has no understanding of just how harmful to the native animals it is to have free-roaming cats on the loose. I have posted detailed information from the experts in the field, which is in agreement with my opinion on this issue. You and others who have blind emotional attachments to cats are so deluded that you will never see the light.


Coward!! don't like to talk? Jack-A55!!


I thought we were "talking" right here on this forum, this open marketplace of ideas where informed people can submit their opinions to the scrutiny of all participants. Unfortunately, there are people here who, like yourself, are more disposed to post insults than to offer intelligent commentary.
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Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by F350:
One of my favorite sayings: If cats looked like frogs we'd kill them for the nasty little bastards that they are.


O-o-o-o-o-! The felinophils will be after your hide for THAT one!


hey.. i love cats. i've never lived anyplace for more than a few months without one.

however, that statement was very funny, and more than just a little true.
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Originally posted by onepatriot7:
let me apologize to you betern-nothing, i can only imagine the emotional scar's you have from being pulled out of the cafeteria in high school and college so that mommy could breast feed her little baby, perhaps with time, therapy will heal that trama you have endured. Big Grin


Time can heal lots of things, but not even time can rescue you from the state of blithering irrationality that has irreversibly infected that tiny, peanut-sized knot of gnarly tissue you try to pass off for a brain.
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Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by onepatriot7:
let me apologize to you betern-nothing, i can only imagine the emotional scar's you have from being pulled out of the cafeteria in high school and college so that mommy could breast feed her little baby, perhaps with time, therapy will heal that trama you have endured. Big Grin


Time can heal lots of things, but not even time can rescue you from the state of blithering irrationality that has irreversibly infected that tiny, peanut-sized knot of gnarly tissue you try to pass off for a brain.


i'll let that pass so as not to become so angry that i hunt you down and step on you for being the nasty little snail loving creature that you are. btw, i would match education and or success/bank accounts with you any day my friend, i just simply choose not to be so snooty
I have not commented for quite sometime on the forum as I have been busy with The Connection Site, but as I scanned today I see the Rockpile comments have been revisited. Thought I might give you a update.

As most know, The Knoxville TVA Office issued a directive to all of their field offices any "Cat Colonies" should be removed from the TVA reservations. This order was a blanket order covering all areas regardless if a Cat Colony was causing an issue or not. Sort of like, our local and national board of educations issuing "Zero Tolerance Programs" without considering each issue individually. Now! we all have read how that is working out haven't we ?

It amazes me at the emotions displayed here regarding likes and dislikes of cats. They run from the blithering rants of beternu who has the answer of just put them all in a bag and drown them to the other end of the spectrum. I am sure there are some individuals who agree with that method in disposing of unwanted creatures and if a bag large enough for beternu could be found, some probably at one time or another entertained the notion of allowing him to experience what its like to try and swim in a bag.

Personally, I think Beternu does a good job of displaying the various traits of personalities that exist on this earth, so we can all be aware of those individuals who think like he does. Its sort of like the Sex Offender Laws, as they just allows us all to know where they are at any given time. But there really has not been a pill,shot,therapy or a surefire cure for the common malaise called "STUPID",therefore we are all affected by it one time or another.

Due to this order, we have been working with Wildlife Biologist R.J.Moore here at the Muscle Shoals TVA Reservation. Let me say here, I find R.J. Moore a decent fellow to work with so,the individuals who have been taking care of the abandoned Cats for years have no ax to grind with R.J. But if I was the person who issued the order out of Knoxville, I don't believe I would go walking in the woods during deer season anytime soon.

The RockPile Cats were reduced in number by adoptions which has worked out well for the CATS and the individuals who adopted them. 90% of these Cats were simply abandon household cats and not feral. Presently, there are about 6 Cats still remaining, of which 3 are a mother cat and 2 kittens which were thrown out about 4 weeks ago,and a Tabby that is about 1 year old that has a gentle personality. He was pitched about 2 weeks ago. We now have the Tabby and he is ready for a home that would like a loving inside cat. He has not been fixed and that will need to be done at the adopters expense. Dr. Joe Cobb at the Colbert Animal Shelter has agreed to do it at a reduced rate. In fact, allow me to say a kind word about two vet locations that have worked with us in relocating the cats. These are The Colbert Animal Clinic on Highway 72, in Muscle Shoals and The Shoals Animal Hospital on Avalon Ave, Muscle Shoals. I highly encourage you to give these Doctors a chance to become your animals doctor. They have earned our respect with their kindness for the animals that had no one to help them when they needed assistance.

Anyone who has space in their family for this tabby would be making a good choice. The Mother and 2 kittens need to be outdoor cats. The other appear to be Feral and we have not be able get our hands on them. If interested, simply go to The Connection site at: theconnectionnorthalabama.com. You can send a email or simply call the advertise number and someone from the group will get back with you.

Trader
"Outdoor cats," whether feral or attached to some human household, are a menace to native wildlife and that is a fact, as attested by the findings of nationally-prominent and respected wildlife organizations.

You find fault with my gunny sack method of cat reduction, yet you are willing to suggest that the person in Knoxville who developed TVA's free-roaming cat policy deserves to be shot.

You are deranged.
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Originally posted by beternU:


You find fault with my gunny sack method of cat reduction, yet you are willing to suggest that the person in Knoxville who developed TVA's free-roaming cat policy deserves to be shot.

You are deranged.


No, trader suggested that the TVA individual was in danger of being shot, not that he should be.

Try reading it again. Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:


You find fault with my gunny sack method of cat reduction, yet you are willing to suggest that the person in Knoxville who developed TVA's free-roaming cat policy deserves to be shot.

You are deranged.


No, trader suggested that the TVA individual was in danger of being shot, not that he should be.

Try reading it again. Roll Eyes


I will re-state:

What Trader is implying is that the alleged offense by the responsible TVA official is so offfensive to some fanatical cat huggers that they would shoot him if they had the opportunity. How heinous an attitude that would be--to murder a human on account of a rational decision to control menacing, environmentally destructive non-native wildlife!
Uh oh beternun, you've had it now! And you such a big christian, tsk tsk.


The Bible actually has much to say in regard to animal abuse. In the beginning, God created the earth and all the creatures on it to be under the authority of humanity. He entrusted these beautiful elements of His creation to our care (Genesis 1:26). Our sinful nature causes us to abuse the animal kingdom, sometimes without even realizing it. Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself. Abuse of anything that God made is not the character of God, but rather of the Evil One.

Domestic Animals: "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel" (Proverbs 12:10). Throughout the Bible, God shows how He expects us to care for our animals in practical ways. In the Law of the Israelites, for example, one of the purposes of the Sabbath year of rest for the land, was to let the land lie fallow--and so that the poor as well as livestock and wild animals could eat from it (Exodus 23:11 and Leviticus 25:7). The Sabbath day itself was not only for humans to rest. God also commanded us to give our animals rest on the same day. (Exodus 20:10). He also commanded the Israelites to help both their friends and enemies when their ox or donkey had fallen over, or was carrying a burden too heavy for it to bear (Exodus 23:5 and Deuteronomy 22:4). In addition, livestock were also allowed to eat as they worked (Deuteronomy 25:4). Finally, God says to us in Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
Uh oh beternun, you've had it now! And you such a big christian, tsk tsk.


The Bible actually has much to say in regard to animal abuse. In the beginning, God created the earth and all the creatures on it to be under the authority of humanity. He entrusted these beautiful elements of His creation to our care (Genesis 1:26). Our sinful nature causes us to abuse the animal kingdom, sometimes without even realizing it. Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself. Abuse of anything that God made is not the character of God, but rather of the Evil One.

Domestic Animals: "A righteous man cares for the needs of his animal, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel" (Proverbs 12:10). Throughout the Bible, God shows how He expects us to care for our animals in practical ways. In the Law of the Israelites, for example, one of the purposes of the Sabbath year of rest for the land, was to let the land lie fallow--and so that the poor as well as livestock and wild animals could eat from it (Exodus 23:11 and Leviticus 25:7). The Sabbath day itself was not only for humans to rest. God also commanded us to give our animals rest on the same day. (Exodus 20:10). He also commanded the Israelites to help both their friends and enemies when their ox or donkey had fallen over, or was carrying a burden too heavy for it to bear (Exodus 23:5 and Deuteronomy 22:4). In addition, livestock were also allowed to eat as they worked (Deuteronomy 25:4). Finally, God says to us in Proverbs 27:23: "Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds."




"Had it?" Hardly. Your little foray into hermeneutics is severely flawed.

Yes, God entrusted his CREATION to our care, Jennifer, and His creation was wisely organized such that there was balance in nature. That balance is disrupted when mankind moves plants and animals around and installs them in ecological settings where they become injurious to the native ecosystems.

You say, "Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself." It is gross insensitivity to God's environment to introduce into it non-native plants or animals that become destructive in the new and inappropriate environment and disrupt the harmony God intended in the balance of nature. Using your words, that "shows a disrespect for God Himself."

That is what has happened with Asian Carp in the Upper Mississippi River system and with hydrilla and water hyacinth that choke many lakes and rivers and with zebra mussels and a host of other introduced exotic species. And when the common house cat is loosed into the natural environments in places where it is not a natural component of the fauna, it becomes destructive of the natural system that God placed there. It kills and eats (or sometimes just kills for the sake of hunting and killing. (yes, cats do that!) small rodents and birds that ARE part of the native and natural environment.

The animals you cited in the Old Testament passages from which you attempted (and failed) to make an cogent argument are, uniformly, domesticated animals that are used by man for such productive purposes as plowing and as beasts of burden. These are WORKING animals and they are given rest from their work, Jennifer, as man is also given rest from his work. But the house cat does not fit that scriptural model. It does not do productive work, and thus has no need for rest, notwithstanding that a lot of cats I have known about spend a great deal of their days sprawling and sleeping.

I know of no house cat that contributes labor and economic benefits of its labor to the household that feeds and shelters it. You have wrested from the scriptures you have used interpretations that the contexts will not sensibly permit.

In short, Jennifer, you have made an irrational and indefensible interpretive stretch in a misguided effort to lend Biblical credibility to your felinophilic biases.
Last edited by beternU
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Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by Sassy Kims:
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Originally posted by beternU:


You find fault with my gunny sack method of cat reduction, yet you are willing to suggest that the person in Knoxville who developed TVA's free-roaming cat policy deserves to be shot.

You are deranged.


No, trader suggested that the TVA individual was in danger of being shot, not that he should be.

Try reading it again. Roll Eyes


I will re-state:

What Trader is implying is that the alleged offense by the responsible TVA official is so offfensive to some fanatical cat huggers that they would shoot him if they had the opportunity. How heinous an attitude that would be--to murder a human on account of a rational decision to control menacing, environmentally destructive non-native wildlife!


Humans are murdered for a lot less every day. Look in any newspaper, or on any television news channel.
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Originally posted by *SaltyDog*:
I'd love to hear beternU try to rationalize his theory to God some day. Maybe he'll send him back here as a stray cat to teach him compassion and give him another chance at redemption. I hope so.


I am fully prepared to answer to God for my views on His creation and my philosophy of "dressing and keeping" it as He designed it. I would suggest that those who knowingly abuse and damage it by placing species in niches where God Himself did not place them and where they are destructive of that which He placed there could have something to answer for.

As to the reincarnation you suggest--does that indicate that you are Hindu, New Ager, or just a ninny?
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Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
I'd love to hear beternU try to rationalize his theory to God some day.

He has tried, and failed.


Once more the dogmatic Jennifer posts unsupported opinion as though it proceeded from the deepest vaults of truth and probity.

That does NOT cut it, Jenny. Support your charges with substance and reasoning if you want to be taken seriously by folks who care about things other than your unexplicated opinion. Opinions are cheap and plentiful. Everyone has lots and lots of them.

I described my reasons for my position on the housecat business and I described them in detail. I rebutted the untenable, un-Biblical position you took. You have not reciprocated with anything of factual or persuasive merit--just your opinion. Can't you do better than that?

Probably not.
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I described my reasons for my position on the housecat business and I described them in detail. I rebutted the untenable, un-Biblical position you took. You have not reciprocated with anything of factual or persuasive merit--just your opinion. Can't you do better than that?


Again KISS. Un-Biblical? Sorry beternun, that came from your bible. So now you've advanced to such "enlightenment" that you can deny biblical writings? And you reached this stage how? Oh I know, by spewing vile and hatred all over the religion forum. Funny how you get your panties in a wad when someone else questions your "good book". Go eat worms beternun. If I saw a starving cat and a starving beternun I'd feed the cat first.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
I described my reasons for my position on the housecat business and I described them in detail. I rebutted the untenable, un-Biblical position you took. You have not reciprocated with anything of factual or persuasive merit--just your opinion. Can't you do better than that?


Again KISS. Un-Biblical? Sorry beternun, that came from your bible. So now you've advanced to such "enlightenment" that you can deny biblical writings? And you reached this stage how? Oh I know, by spewing vile and hatred all over the religion forum. Funny how you get your panties in a wad when someone else questions your "good book". Go eat worms beternun. If I saw a starving cat and a starving beternun I'd feed the cat first.


To use a Biblical expression, Jennifer, your performance on this issue has been "weighed in the balance and found wanting." This last worthless post of yours does nothing to address the arguments I have made in refutation of your mis-application of Scripture. Address the actual points that I made if you wish to have any credibility here. To continue with your attitude of I-said-it-so-it-must-be-right accomplished nothing for your side of the argument other than to give you some perverse sorth of self-satisfaction that rests on absolutely nothing substantive.

Your continuing utter failure to address the actual substance of what I posted leads me to only one conclusion--that you are whupped and can't find any way to defend your poosition and are therefore just blowing out opinions and expecting them to be accepted because they come from you. A bit pompous of you, Jennifer.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
quote:
Originally posted by *SaltyDog*:
I'd love to hear beternU try to rationalize his theory to God some day. Maybe he'll send him back here as a stray cat to teach him compassion and give him another chance at redemption. I hope so.


I am fully prepared to answer to God for my views on His creation and my philosophy of "dressing and keeping" it as He designed it. I would suggest that those who knowingly abuse and damage it by placing species in niches where God Himself did not place them and where they are destructive of that which He placed there could have something to answer for.

As to the reincarnation you suggest--does that indicate that you are Hindu, New Ager, or just a ninny?


Does that mean the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Lauderdale County? I got Jersey cattle. I think they came from, just a guess, Jersey. Does that mean I should kill them all?
quote:
Originally posted by Trutooit-II:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by *SaltyDog*:
I'd love to hear beternU try to rationalize his theory to God some day. Maybe he'll send him back here as a stray cat to teach him compassion and give him another chance at redemption. I hope so.


I am fully prepared to answer to God for my views on His creation and my philosophy of "dressing and keeping" it as He designed it. I would suggest that those who knowingly abuse and damage it by placing species in niches where God Himself did not place them and where they are destructive of that which He placed there could have something to answer for.

As to the reincarnation you suggest--does that indicate that you are Hindu, New Ager, or just a ninny?


Does that mean the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Lauderdale County? I got Jersey cattle. I think they came from, just a guess, Jersey. Does that mean I should kill them all?


I am okay with yout cattle so long as you manage them responsibly and do not over-graze your land and produce erosion and siltation. Should your cattle take up the house cat habit of destroying birds and small rodents, I would suggest that you reduce the entire hert to dog food.

God has made us stewards of his natural world. Loosing house cats in parts of that world where they become destructive is not good stewardsjop.
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by Trutooit-II:
quote:
Originally posted by beternU:
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Originally posted by *SaltyDog*:
I'd love to hear beternU try to rationalize his theory to God some day. Maybe he'll send him back here as a stray cat to teach him compassion and give him another chance at redemption. I hope so.


I am fully prepared to answer to God for my views on His creation and my philosophy of "dressing and keeping" it as He designed it. I would suggest that those who knowingly abuse and damage it by placing species in niches where God Himself did not place them and where they are destructive of that which He placed there could have something to answer for.

As to the reincarnation you suggest--does that indicate that you are Hindu, New Ager, or just a ninny?


Does that mean the Garden of Eden was somewhere in Lauderdale County? I got Jersey cattle. I think they came from, just a guess, Jersey. Does that mean I should kill them all?


I am okay with yout cattle so long as you manage them responsibly and do not over-graze your land and produce erosion and siltation. Should your cattle take up the house cat habit of destroying birds and small rodents, I would suggest that you reduce the entire hert to dog food.

God has made us stewards of his natural world. Loosing house cats in parts of that world where they become destructive is not good stewardsjop.


tsk tsk
quote:
Your continuing utter failure to address the actual substance of what I posted leads me to only one conclusion--that you are whupped and can't find any way to defend your poosition and are therefore just blowing out opinions and expecting them to be accepted because they come from you. A bit pompous of you, Jennifer.

How did I not address it beternun? YOU just can't take someone calling you on your silly ramblings. BTW your typing is getting a bit sloppy. I'm hoping you don't have pets because you'd be kicking them right about now. How dare someone dress down the high and mighty (in his mind) beternun!!! You don't accept anything that doesn't come from your twisted mind. Pompous? Look up pompous in the dictionary, it will have YOUR picture beside it. Again, KISS. The day you post anything of substance will surely be a red letter day on the TD forums.
quote:
Originally posted by Jennifer:
quote:
Your continuing utter failure to address the actual substance of what I posted leads me to only one conclusion--that you are whupped and can't find any way to defend your poosition and are therefore just blowing out opinions and expecting them to be accepted because they come from you. A bit pompous of you, Jennifer.

How did I not address it beternun? YOU just can't take someone calling you on your silly ramblings. BTW your typing is getting a bit sloppy. I'm hoping you don't have pets because you'd be kicking them right about now. How dare someone dress down the high and mighty (in his mind) beternun!!! You don't accept anything that doesn't come from your twisted mind. Pompous? Look up pompous in the dictionary, it will have YOUR picture beside it. Again, KISS. The day you post anything of substance will surely be a red letter day on the TD forums.


Here is a reminder--I am re-posting that which I posted earlier concerning animals, Biblical teaching, and your sloppy misapplication of Scripture. You have not touched any of this, edge, side, top or bottom. You have responded to none of it with anything but unsupported opinion, which does not count in informed argumentation, discussion anmd debate. Here it is; have another try and maybe you can raise your "F" to something like a "C-." Given your pathetic performance thus far, that is about as well as you could possibly do, I suspect.

Just do this simple thing, Jennifer: try responding to what I have put up instead of barfing out insults and unsupported opinion. Last chance, Jennifer. I am through with you unless you put in some effort here to participate in the true spirit of infoprmed and rational debate. Do you have it in you?

"Yes, God entrusted his CREATION to our care, Jennifer, and His creation was wisely organized such that there was balance in nature. That balance is disrupted when mankind moves plants and animals around and installs them in ecological settings where they become injurious to the native ecosystems.

You say, "Yet, God expects the Christian, above all others, to be sensitive to all of His creation, knowing that exploiting or abusing it shows a disrespect for God Himself." It is gross insensitivity to God's environment to introduce into it non-native plants or animals that become destructive in the new and inappropriate environment and disrupt the harmony God intended in the balance of nature. Using your words, that "shows a disrespect for God Himself."

That is what has happened with Asian Carp in the Upper Mississippi River system and with hydrilla and water hyacinth that choke many lakes and rivers and with zebra mussels and a host of other introduced exotic species. And when the common house cat is loosed into the natural environments in places where it is not a natural component of the fauna, it becomes destructive of the natural system that God placed there. It kills and eats (or sometimes just kills for the sake of hunting and killing. (yes, cats do that!) small rodents and birds that ARE part of the native and natural environment.

The animals you cited in the Old Testament passages from which you attempted (and failed) to make an cogent argument are, uniformly, domesticated animals that are used by man for such productive purposes as plowing and as beasts of burden. These are WORKING animals and they are given rest from their work, Jennifer, as man is also given rest from his work. But the house cat does not fit that scriptural model. It does not do productive work, and thus has no need for rest, notwithstanding that a lot of cats I have known about spend a great deal of their days sprawling and sleeping.

I know of no house cat that contributes labor and economic benefits of its labor to the household that feeds and shelters it. You have wrested from the scriptures you have used interpretations that the contexts will not sensibly permit.

In short, Jennifer, you have made an irrational and indefensible interpretive stretch in a misguided effort to lend Biblical credibility to your felinophilic biases."
quote:
Originally posted by FirenzeVeritas:
Aha, beternU is what is called an animal utilitarianist. Thank God these are few and far between today. I'm an animal specieist--feel free to kill all the fleas you wish, just leave the domesticated animals alone.

To beternU I say, cats do function productively--they bring love and joy. Meowy Christmas!


They do NOT function productively when they are allowed to roam freely and kill wildlife. They can deliver all the love and joy they are capable of giving while kept indoors. Allowing them to roam freely around the neighborhood also exposes them to dangers of several kinds. Thus, those who "let the cat our" during the day are not being all that kind to ole tabby.

Read up:


"House cats are non-native predators. Even with a full stomach, their instinct to hunt drives them to stalk and kill available prey. In a wildlife-friendly yard, birds, small mammals, and even large insects are sitting ducks for the well-designed feline carnivore. House cats are effective hunters but unnatural predators in any outdoor setting. By killing millions of birds each year in North America alone, cats have a negative and dangerous impact on bird populations."

http://web4.audubon.org/bird/at_home/SafeCats.html

MORE:

http://www.abcbirds.org/abcpro...erials/predation.pdf

http://www.gibsonswildlifereha...re.org/catswild.html


http://www.dfg.ca.gov/ocal/archives/catprey.pdf
Last edited by beternU
I love birds and I also love cats. God made the cats to want to stalk, hunt, and kill birds as well as mice. That's a sad but necessary part of God's circle of life and the checks and balances of nature. Keeping "housecats" in the house may be giving an edge to the birds so I really don't understand your reasoning. You don't think people should keep them in the house and you don't think they should let them out. It would appear you'd be happy to see them all gone. God made cats. Are you saying he made a mistake?
quote:
Originally posted by *SaltyDog*:
I love birds and I also love cats. God made the cats to want to stalk, hunt, and kill birds as well as mice. That's a sad but necessary part of God's circle of life and the checks and balances of nature. Keeping "housecats" in the house may be giving an edge to the birds so I really don't understand your reasoning. You don't think people should keep them in the house and you don't think they should let them out. It would appear you'd be happy to see them all gone. God made cats. Are you saying he made a mistake?


I have no complaint about people keeping their cats in the house. The common house cat is NOT a part of the native New World environment. In the ecosystems in North America in which it is allowed to roam, it destroys an inordinate amount of wildlife. God made cats, but he did not place them HERE. They are Old World critters. Like many other fauna moved away from their native habitats, they do NOT fit into the new and strange ecosystem into which they have been placed. The balance of nature with regard to rodents and birds is maintained adequately in our natural North American ecosystems without the "aid" of cats.

Read the links I provided. They are from creditable sources and they discuss the enormous damage done by cats allowed to freely roam, including feral cats and house cats that are "let out" by their owners. These are facts beyond dispute, but the felinophiles on here refuse to wake up and acknowledge reality.

The birds would get no "edge" from house cats being kept inside, since the house cats don't belong in our native ecosystems anyway. Birds, and especially neotropical migrants, which include many warblers, vireos, and other beautiful birds, are in big trouble for many reasons (tropical hardwood forest clearing and south-of-the-border pollution of watering areas to name a couple). They don't need further depletion through depredations by house cats!

Does this help you understand where I stand on this?
I can't argue with your logic Beter, but I can't help but to lean a little the other way. I am an animal lover. I am a dog man myself but I have enjoyed the company of a few cats too.

And so as to live up to my promise of enhanced civility, my compliments to a well thought out, perfectly spelled, perfectly punctuated post. I present you with a whole hearted out standing.
quote:
Originally posted by *SaltyDog*:
I love birds and I also love cats. God made the cats to want to stalk, hunt, and kill birds as well as mice. That's a sad but necessary part of God's circle of life and the checks and balances of nature. Keeping "housecats" in the house may be giving an edge to the birds so I really don't understand your reasoning. You don't think people should keep them in the house and you don't think they should let them out. It would appear you'd be happy to see them all gone. God made cats. Are you saying he made a mistake?
Read your post after I posted to bluetick. Cat's belong inside or out, depending on the cat and the owners. My cats stayed in because of the area we lived in. When we moved here and there was no major traffic threat they were allowed outside at times. IF they had ever caught a bird, which I never knew them to do, well that was just nature. I don't like birds anyway, and I sure as heck don't like "vermin" in my house.
Observation is a wonderful teacher. On National Geographic Channels and Animal Planet, etc you see Large Wild Cats laying in the mix of other wild life around them, without even a hint of getting up an attacking. Then you will hear the explanation, the Cats once they have made kill will go for days without making another. Why? Because their belly is full and they have no need to hunt and kill just for the sport of it as the two legged human being species does.
Last edited by trader
quote:
Originally posted by trader:
Observation is a wonderful teacher. On National Geographic Channels and Animal Planet, etc you see Large Wild Cats laying in the mix of other wild life around them, with even a hint of getting up an attacking. Then you will hear the explanation, the Cats once they have made kill will go for days without making another. Why? Because their belly is full and they have no need to hunt and kill just for the sport of it as the two legged human being species does.


House cats will sometimes kill other animals and NOT eat them That is a fact that you have not taken into account. House cats are not the same as lions, leopards, etc., so your National Geographic referenmce is not persuasive. Lions and other big cats may eat one huge meal and then not eat again for a very long time. Not so with house cats; they just don't operate that way.

Do big cats like lions kill just for sport, as house cats sometimes do? I think not.

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