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Citizens Outraged By Reluctant Administrators. it has to do with the lack of unity and action of our Mayor and council members. It's an organization to bring about unity to our town. So far I am the only member and I do all I can to bring this about. My blog is. http://cherokeesrealcobra.blogspot.com
In order to get the jest of what is going on, you need to read from post one. I'm trying to bring Jesus onto the situation.

quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
quote:
Originally posted by C.O.B.R.A.:
I was raised Catholic, was an alter boy for a while, didn't let any priests near my body. I went with the Catholic thing cause I was told to. I got older and made some realizations. They say they don't worship Mary, yet they pray to her. The Bible teaches us to pray only To God through Jesus Christ. They do pray to Mary, lets see if I can remember, Hail Mary full of grace the Lord be with you. Etc. Another thing is they baptize babies. The Bible teaches that babies come from God and no unclean thing can be in the presence of God. It also teaches that baptism is for the remission of sins. If babies come from God and no unclean thing can be in the presence of God, then babies MUST be sin free. We are also taught that we must repent in order to be baptized and in order to repent we must confess, I haven't found a baby yet that can talk let alone confess some kind of sin they never committed. We are only held responsible for our own mistake,Adam and Eves sins CANNOT be passed on to anyone.
Catholic cleargy are not allowed to get married yet in their own Bible in 1Timothy 3-7 says their Bishops MUST BE MARRIED and if they had them, their DEACONS must be married too!
There are more things. So, no more of that for me, I sought out the real organization of Jesus Christ, and about Peter being the rock that the church was built on, WRONG ANSWER THERE TOO! Go back and re read the verses before that statement and you will see Jesus wasn't talking about Peter at all. Jesus asked Peter who he thought Jesus was and Peter said he was the Son of God and Jesus said flesh and blood hath not revealed it to you but my Father in Heaven. Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church. Jesus didn't say thou art Peter and upon you I will build my church. And He didn't say thou art Perer and you are a rock and upon you I will build my church. He said, His Father in Heaven REVEALED to Peter that Jesus was the Son of God and upon THIS ROCK, (THE ROCK OF REVELATION FROM GOD ) He would build His church.
Nuff said




Cobra,

I have read you previous post, and I can tell you are very happy with where you are at (religiously). I also noticed in previous post that you are secure in your salvation, and I think that is great. I am also secure in my salvation.

The end of your post says "nuff said" I'll take that to mean you don't want me to lay out a counter discussion going point by point on the issues you brought up about the church. (Mary and so on....) But, I think we can both agree Jesus is the Son of God and the eternal Savior.

one last thing, If I may ask, What is C.O.B.R.A. an acronym for? I'm just curious Smiler
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
quote:
I just want to be clear - I'm not saying catholics are better,.....


With all brotherly affection... then why are you a Catholic?


nsns



Eucharist (not the only reason, but it's the main reason)



nsns,


I would like to just jump in and say of all I have studied of the christian,
catholic for me has a more religious sensation of peace.Yes, we take more things
out of the bible because Jesus told us to, so I know that's what he wanted in the
first place. Jesus meant what he said when setting up his church. So I feel
closer to what he wanted for us.

The Eucharist is just one of the many "Gifts" he gave to us. He knew he wasn't
going to be here on earth much longer. He left us what we needed until his return.

The church everyone calls,"Catholic", took off in the year 33AD. No one has to
believe that or anything else about the catholic church. I would only ask people
to inform themselves. There is much false information about catholics.

I don't reconmemd someone who openly hates and lies about a christian church
of Our Lord Jesus Christ, who they pretend to be christian, but not of the
values christians hold.

I have never understood this. Could someone explain it to me?
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:

Cobra, I have read you previous post, and I can tell you are very happy with where you are at (religiously). I also noticed in previous post that you are secure in your salvation, and I think that is great. I am also secure in my salvation.

The end of your post says "nuff said" I'll take that to mean you don't want me to lay out a counter discussion going point by point on the issues you brought up about the church. (Mary and so on....) But, I think we can both agree Jesus is the Son of God and the eternal Savior.

one last thing, If I may ask, What is C.O.B.R.A. an acronym for? I'm just curious

Hi David,

You say that Dwight (COBRA) is secure in his salvation. You really need to learn more about the Mormon religion which is Dwight's church. When he speaks of salvation; he is talking apples to our oranges. While I do disagree with many of the Roman Catholic doctrines; I do consider it to be a Christian church. The Mormon church is not.

Briefly, the Mormon church worships a different god, i.e., a committee of gods, NOT the God of the Bible.

And, the Jesus Christ the Mormon church worships is NOT the Jesus Christ found in John 1:1-5. Their Jesus Christ is a created being, the spirit brother of Lucifer/Satan.

There are many other differences which clearly show that the Mormon church is NOT a Christian church.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
quote:
I just want to be clear - I'm not saying catholics are better,.....


With all brotherly affection... then why are you a Catholic?


nsns




Eucharist (not the only reason, but it's the main reason)


Do not the Protestant churches practice the Sacrament?


nsns


protestants have bread and grape juice - symbolic.

Catholics have Eucharist, Although it has the physical appearance of bread and wine, during the consecration, and through transubstantiation the bread and wine become the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ.
HoD,

With due respect, that's nonsense. It's magic. It's a conjuring trick.


And it ends in cannibalism.

I cannot bring myself to regard the concept of transubstantiation with anything other than contempt.

Nothing personal, but it's time the human species got over such belief in magic as any sort of explanation for reality.

For what its worth, even the symbolic cannibalism of the Protestants is just slightly less offensive.

nsns
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
HoD,

With due respect, that's nonsense. It's magic. It's a conjuring trick.


And it ends in cannibalism.

I cannot bring myself to regard the concept of transubstantiation with anything other than contempt.

Nothing personal, but it's time the human species got over such belief in magic as any sort of explanation for reality.

For what its worth, even the symbolic cannibalism of the Protestants is just slightly less offensive.

nsns



But NSNS,

You don't know the secrets between me and God.
What looks like magic to you is another reality for me, a dimension you've never stepped into.

Faith is great. But, I don't have to base things on faith anymore... Jesus is a reality for me - tangible experiences. the supernatural I experience would terrify you because you are not use to it.

My life experiences are the opposite of yours.

I don't expect you to believe me, and you may laugh... that's okay... I am simply answering your question...
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:
Protestants have bread and grape juice - symbolic.

Catholics have Eucharist, Although it has the physical appearance of bread and wine, during the consecration, and through transubstantiation the bread and wine become the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ.

Hi David,

Is it actual human flesh and human blood -- as we saw in the mouth of the nun in the article I shared a few weeks ago?

Or, is the Eucharist ONLY in the mind of the participant?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
HoD,

With due respect, that's nonsense. It's magic. It's a conjuring trick.


And it ends in cannibalism.

I cannot bring myself to regard the concept of transubstantiation with anything other than contempt.

Nothing personal, but it's time the human species got over such belief in magic as any sort of explanation for reality.

For what its worth, even the symbolic cannibalism of the Protestants is just slightly less offensive.

nsns



not,

Jn 6:35 I am the bread of life; who ever comes to me will never hunger,and whoever
believes in me will never thirst.

6:38 Because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one
who sent me.

6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,and I will raise
him on the last day.

6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate
and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.


( many of the disciples didn't believe this and left Jesus )

6:67 Then Jesus sais to the twelve, Do you also want to leave? (68) Simon Peter
answered him, Master, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail.
The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. (64) But there some
of you who not believe.

-- The next 1 Cor 2:14-15 explains Jn 6:63

1 Cor 2:14 Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit
of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is
judged spiritually. (2:15) The spiritual person, however, can judge everything
but is not subject to judgment by anyone.

Very clear what Jesus is talking about. Theres much more about this in bible.
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
HoD,

With due respect, that's nonsense. It's magic. It's a conjuring trick.


And it ends in cannibalism.

I cannot bring myself to regard the concept of transubstantiation with anything other than contempt.

Nothing personal, but it's time the human species got over such belief in magic as any sort of explanation for reality.

For what its worth, even the symbolic cannibalism of the Protestants is just slightly less offensive.

nsns



not,

Jn 6:35 I am the bread of life; who ever comes to me will never hunger,and whoever
believes in me will never thirst.

6:38 Because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one
who sent me.

6:54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life,and I will raise
him on the last day.

6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate
and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.


( many of the disciples didn't believe this and left Jesus )

6:67 Then Jesus sais to the twelve, Do you also want to leave? (68) Simon Peter
answered him, Master, to whom shall we go? you have the words of eternal life.

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail.
The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. (64) But there some
of you who not believe.

-- The next 1 Cor 2:14-15 explains Jn 6:63

1 Cor 2:14 Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit
of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is
judged spiritually. (2:15) The spiritual person, however, can judge everything
but is not subject to judgment by anyone.

Very clear what Jesus is talking about. Theres much more about this in bible.



Gifted,

I just wanted to add to your post;

Matthew 26:26-28: Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is my body." And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

(**NOTE - The Eucharist is a communal meal, a sacrificial meal, a memorial meal, and a sin-forgiving meal, according to Jesus.)
Gifted,

I'm having a bit of a laugh at your expense, but it's meant in a friendly way.

Got a little tip for you, offered on your behalf. Don't argue with atheists using bible verses. We don't care. They are your holy words, not ours. You might as well be reading the phone book to us.

Oh, and one other thing. Don't threaten us with Hell. It doesn't work, you see.

Have a great day!


nsns
quote:
I'm not laughing at you, but I cannot believe, either.

Magic is a series of tricks designed to fool an audience who pays to be fooled. But if you know anything about magic, you know it's an illusion, nothing more.


NSNS- You have always been respectful, and I appreciate that, as I'm sure HoD does as well. Now- an illusion would indicate that there is something "visual", no?
The Host of the Eucharist undergoes no change to appearance. So its not really an illusion. It is what it is, to those who choose to partake.
You don't have to believe, and thats okay- we can still discuss and agree on other things.
I don't think though, that it is appropriate/good form to liken the Eucharist to magic though- there is no trick to it, in the heart of a believer. Smiler
just my 2cents. ....veep.
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
quote:
I don't expect you to believe me, and you may laugh... that's okay... I am simply answering your question...


Hod,

I'm not laughing at you, but I cannot believe, either.

Magic is a series of tricks designed to fool an audience who pays to be fooled. But if you know anything about magic, you know it's an illusion, nothing more.


Best,

nsns



You don't have to believe it... it's okay.

But you still don't know the secrets between God and soul.

It's not your realm.
quote:
ou don't have to believe it... it's okay.

But you still don't know the secrets between God and soul.

It's not your realm.



oh, i think he understands it all too well, HOD. all too well. he understands that the magician is performing tricks. you insist it is "real" magic.

in this universe governed by natural, immutable laws, only one of you can be right.
quote:
Originally posted by Unobtanium:
quote:
ou don't have to believe it... it's okay.

But you still don't know the secrets between God and soul.

It's not your realm.



oh, i think he understands it all too well, HOD. all too well. he understands that the magician is performing tricks. you insist it is "real" magic.

in this universe governed by natural, immutable laws, only one of you can be right.


what magician?

The supernatural can happen and often does happen when no other human is around. when i am left alone with God.
quote:

But you still don't know the secrets between God and soul.

It's not your realm.


It's no realm at all. What gift do you have, my dear sir, that I do not have? With what sense are you gifted that makes you more than human that I do not share?

Do you think that I have not sincerely asked god to show himself to me? I have, and he did not. Because he does not exist.

quote:


And do you think that unto such as you;
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew:
God gave the secret, and denied it me?–
Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

-Omar Khayyam


Believe that at your peril, my dear sir. It leads to ruin.


nsns
quote:
Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
quote:

But you still don't know the secrets between God and soul.

It's not your realm.


It's no realm at all. What gift do you have, my dear sir, that I do not have? With what sense are you gifted that makes you more than human that I do not share?

Do you think that I have not sincerely asked god to show himself to me? I have, and he did not. Because he does not exist.

quote:


And do you think that unto such as you;
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew:
God gave the secret, and denied it me?–
Well, well, what matters it! Believe that, too.

-Omar Khayyam


Believe that at your peril, my dear sir. It leads to ruin.


nsns



I do believe it.
It's who i am
God's mysterious
I'm sure i'm not the only one...
I'm just admitting it..

secrets every day......

And if you don't mind, call me ms. not sir
quote:
I don't think though, that it is appropriate/good form to liken the Eucharist to magic though- there is no trick to it, in the heart of a believer.


My darling Veep,

I am not a believer. I have no contrary position, so this puts me squarely in the middle, where "what I see is what I get".

I am in the, perhaps, unenviable position to see the world as it shines around me. Sometimes, often, really, I see the beauty of the sunrise and the humor that is perhaps the best reason for human intelligence.

Other times I see BS, which, in all conscience, I cannot ignore. I cannot be truthful to myself and you if I do not call BS when I see it.

Magic spells and incantations and potions are the stuff of disreputable superstition. All religions are guilty of these. The Eucharist is simply a particularly egregious example, since it brings into force so many facets of ancient sorcery.

Can you see it from my eyes? I have tried to see it from yours. I have taken communion. To my mind, it was a hollow ritual undergone due to peer pressure and a certain seeking. No revelation came to me for doing so.

I seek god no more. I now seek truth. If god is truth, so be it, but so far he's just not. What is apparently truth is that people perpetuate religious memes rather than face the often harsh, but often beautiful, reality of the human experience.

We only go around once. Grab all the gusto you can.


Best,

nsns
quote:
Can you see it from my eyes? I have tried to see it from yours. I have taken communion. To my mind, it was a hollow ritual undergone due to peer pressure and a certain seeking. No revelation came to me for doing so.

I seek god no more. I now seek truth. If god is truth, so be it, but so far he's just not. What is apparently truth is that people perpetuate religious memes rather than face the often harsh, but often beautiful, reality of the human experience.

We only go around once. Grab all the gusto you can.


YES I totally see it from your eyes. And have seen it from your eyes. And- yep, it looked the same, NSNS. On the superficial level, the world goes round whether you believe in God or not- horrible things happen, whether you believe or not.
Actually, most times that I have been "doubtful" of God's existence, my arguments are/were the same as yours- no proof, no answered prayers, no plausible, tangible explanation for existence. Sigh...I once thought the whole "God" thing was just a ploy or scare tactic to inject fear and morality into civilization.
So yes, I know exactly where you're at.
And I have complete respect for where you're at, because I have been there.
It is liberating but also distressing. Liberating because you can just live, and not worry. No fear of Sin, Judgement, none of it... Distressing, because it makes mourning more painful, and death completely terrifying. (nobody wants to feel it could just be "over".)

Now, I did believe all these things. I also begged God to reveal Himself to me. Did He? Yes. In a way that I will share with you via PM if you wish, but will not allow my personal revelation to be subject to scrutiny on a public forum....
So- that was a wake up call. A "YES, I am here.." followed by blessings and private revelations that are known only to me and God. And of course His Blessed Mother. Wink
And then came the Faith and Love....and the rest as they say, is history.
Peace out yo.
xoxox
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:

...The supernatural can happen and often does happen when no other human is around. when i am left alone with God.


HoD,

I believe what you are talking about is often referred to as "magical thinking". Feel free to look it up. You are welcome to disagree, but I think there's a logical and natural explanation to the experiences you've alluded to several times now on this forum.

We are pattern-recognizing beings. It's been an essential part of our ancestor's evolutionary survival and we all have inherited that legacy in the perceptual part of our brains (vision is our main and dominant sense). The problem is that this special skill is over-tuned and not discriminating enough. By itself, it interprets many things erroneously. Often interpreting patterns and assigning causal effects instantly where none exist. It's an emotional and perceptual misfiring that is not easily balanced or overturned by rationed thought processes from the less dominating parts of our brain. We are hard-wired this way. It's why magic tricks and illusions work so well and easily on us. If we don't apply skeptical and rational inquiry at a magic show, we are susceptible and easily fooled by our own brains and very willing and/or predisposed to believe in "magical" and causal connections to natural phenomenon. Our brains need to seek out patterns because we hate surprises and love being in control. Interpreting the unknown and seeing causality in coincidence gives us the perceived comfort of control. Basically, our nervous system refuses to accept or believe in coincidence. We all know this from our own experience. Our overeager nervous system therefore lays the groundwork for more detailed and superstitious ideation to develop. Additionally, events of personal and emotional significance can push us very strongly toward magical-type thinking as a way to alleviate our natural discomfort and stress with the unexplained or unknown.
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
quote:
Originally posted by House of David:

...The supernatural can happen and often does happen when no other human is around. when i am left alone with God.


HoD,

I believe what you are talking about is often referred to as "magical thinking". Feel free to look it up. You are welcome to disagree, but I think there's a logical and natural explanation to the experiences you've alluded to several times now on this forum.

We are pattern-recognizing beings. It's been an essential part of our ancestor's evolutionary survival and we all have inherited that legacy in the perceptual part of our brains (vision is our main and dominant sense). The problem is that this special skill is over-tuned and not discriminating enough. By itself, it interprets many things erroneously. Often interpreting patterns and assigning causal effects instantly where none exist. It's an emotional and perceptual misfiring that is not easily balanced or overturned by rationed thought processes from the less dominating parts of our brain. We are hard-wired this way. It's why magic tricks and illusions work so well and easily on us. If we don't apply skeptical and rational inquiry at a magic show, we are susceptible and easily fooled by our own brains and very willing and/or predisposed to believe in "magical" and causal connections to natural phenomenon. Our brains need to seek out patterns because we hate surprises and love being in control. Interpreting the unknown and seeing causality in coincidence gives us the perceived comfort of control. Basically, our nervous system refuses to accept or believe in coincidence. We all know this from our own experience. Our overeager nervous system therefore lays the groundwork for more detailed and superstitious ideation to develop. Additionally, events of personal and emotional significance can push us very strongly toward magical-type thinking as a way to alleviate our natural discomfort and stress with the unexplained or unknown.


AR,

I haven't given enough information, for you to comment like that...

But maybe I will give you more information in a way it can be proven to you regardless of this anonymous forum... Smiler

You'd like that wouldn't you... the supernatural in front of you... reach out and touch "it"

I mean that, i'm not being flip...

It would make for a great discussion, a great experience, would it not?

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