Anti-evolution bill Dies in Legislative Session

let's hope that common sense is making a comeback....

No problem with scientific subjects like evolution or even nonsense like creationism as explanation, not advocacy, being taught by the teachers, in the appropriate classroom. Poli sci, sure, science class, sure, algebra -- NO!

Hi all,

No, chalk one up for the forces of Secular Humanism. When President Bush described the Axis of Evil, he forgot to mention this group. But, then he was thinking of those who would use physical weapons to destroy lives; not those who use spiritual weapons to destroy souls.

You may worship Madelyn Murray O'Hair and the ACLU/NEA axis of evil -- but, I praise God that my grandchildren are all in Christian schools; where they will learn the Truth. I only wish I could say that for all children.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi all,

No, chalk one up for the forces of Secular Humanism. When President Bush described the Axis of Evil, he forgot to mention this group. But, then he was thinking of those who would use physical weapons to destroy lives; not those who use spiritual weapons to destroy souls.

Hi Bill, I need a little clarification here.

Are you saying reasonable, rational thinking people are evil?

Regards

quote:

No, chalk one up for the forces of Secular Humanism. When President Bush described the Axis of Evil, he forgot to mention this group

Muh-hah-hah-ha-haaaa!

Yeeesssss, I shall think about you during our naked dance around the totem before we consume grandbaby stew tonight, Bill!

(In case anyone else is as blindly ignorant as Bill: "Secular" means "neutral with respect to a diety, esp. Christianity" and " humanist " is a philosophical belief system that "affirms the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities — particularly rationality.")

quote:

chalk one up for the forces of Secular Humanism.

We got forces? Why didn't someone tell me?

What dance? What totem? I must not be getting the newsletter.

DF

I must be reading this differently than y'all are.

Since it did NOT pass, does this mean teachers are NOT protected from being fired for giving personal opinion while teaching controversial subjects like evolution? Does this mean they can be fired for giving personal opinion? I would think that would be difficult to pull off. How would you have interesting discussions in class on the subject at hand without opinion slipping in? It would limit debate and stirring minds to think, to reason, to conclude. I don't like it.

_Joy_,

I think the point of celebration is that this keeps an administrator's option to fire open if he/she finds out a teacher's religious beliefs are being injected as instruction or as undue influence upon his/her students. I think parents should have the right to rest assured that the religious beliefs (or lack thereof) they are trying to instill in their children are not being conflicted by an educator's religious beliefs (or lack thereof). Ultimately, it is simply not a schoolteacher's right or responsibility to do that to a child unless all parties are comfortable with that arrangement, as it is at religious schools.

I can see where a Christian in a Christian-heavy community would not see the problem of a teacher lecturing on evolution letting slip something like "Well, personally I am convinced by faith that this is all nonsense". Now ask yourself if you would be comfortable with a Muslim instructor asserting to your child the Muslim story of creation. Would there be outrage? Would you be outraged? Would you demand that he be fired for that? I would; I would demand it of any instructor mixing subjective personal beliefs with objective science. The public school system is there to teach, not preach. Take your kids to church for that.

quote:

Originally posted by _Joy_:
Since it did NOT pass, does this mean teachers are NOT protected from being fired for giving personal opinion while teaching controversial subjects like evolution?

Personal opinion is one thing. Underhanded, dishonest attempts to redefine science is quite another.

I will admit to a significant gray area. As I've stated before, I don't have a problem with teaching Creationism in school - as long as it is taught in a mythology or comparative religion class where equal treatment is given to other creation myths.

The Supreme Court has found (over and over) that Creationism is a purely Christian concept, has no basis in scientific fact and therefore is a direct affront to the separation clause of the 1st Amendment.

These "religious freedom" acts like this pop-up all over the country, get passed, go to court, then get knocked back down again only to re-appear in another state under slightly different wording. It is a never ending attempt to keep teachers from proselytizing to a captive audience.

As far as this being a "controversial subject" It is not. The only "controversy" is from religious groups who have created a controversy where none exist. There is no disagreement that evolution is the best explanation for the evidence.

BB02,

Excellent job of explaining a complex issue. Right on.

Thanks, I try.

quote:

No, chalk one up for the forces of Secular Humanism. When President Bush described the Axis of Evil, he forgot to mention this group. But, then he was thinking of those who would use physical weapons to destroy lives; not those who use spiritual weapons to destroy souls.

You may worship Madelyn Murray O'Hair and the ACLU/NEA axis of evil -- but, I praise God that my grandchildren are all in Christian schools; where they will learn the Truth. I only wish I could say that for all children.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill its disappointing to see you post messages of self righteousness while at the same time knowing you willfully perpetrated a lie about me.

quote:

Originally posted by jetboy:

quote:

No, chalk one up for the forces of Secular Humanism. When President Bush described the Axis of Evil, he forgot to mention this group. But, then he was thinking of those who would use physical weapons to destroy lives; not those who use spiritual weapons to destroy souls.

You may worship Madelyn Murray O'Hair and the ACLU/NEA axis of evil -- but, I praise God that my grandchildren are all in Christian schools; where they will learn the Truth. I only wish I could say that for all children.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Bill its disappointing to see you post messages of self righteousness while at the same time knowing you willfully perpetrated a lie about me.

Hi Jetboy,

Which one of your reincarnations on the Forum am I communicating with now? It has been so long since you used this incarnation; I had forgetten any question you might have had.

But, it is nice hearing from you again. Let's stay in touch.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Which one of your reincarnations on the Forum am I communicating with now? It has been so long since you used this incarnation; I had forgetten any question you might have had.

But, it is nice hearing from you again. Let's stay in touch.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Lying may be considered trivial in your family Bill, not mine. Attacking my character in no way alleviates the fact that you willfully lied.

I have actually had a conversation with a local science teacher who stated that she/he only lightly touched upon evolution because she didn't want to deal with the parents who complained.

She was afraid to teach legitimate science in a science classroom because of Creationist kooks.

This is a teacher who directly ignores the Alabama Education Standards because of fear of persecution from religious fundies.

I feel his/her pain.

I can understand that, but my kids have Atheist teachers who freely shared their beliefs as well as a few rather strange teachers that shared some rather strange beliefs. It didn't freak me out or anything. It gave us an opportunity to discuss what they will face once they leave my house. That's just my opinion though & I understand why you all feel as you do. I feel strongly that young people need an opportunity to explore, question & conclude in a safe non-threatening environment.

Well well well well well..................

I someone in this forum mentioned the names Madilyn Murray O'Hare. That reminded me of a book I read back in the 1980's by a gentleman by the name of William Murray.

Do you know who William Murray was? That's right, the son of Madilyn Murray O'Hare. The book was excellent. Very inspiring. Do you know why? It told of the horrible life of William living with the evil Madilyn Murray O'Hare. I am providing a link if you would like to order the book. But then again, the truth doesn't matter to DF ad GF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murray

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Without-God-William-Murray/d...id=1211586285&sr=1-1

I dare you to read it GF and DF. Better yet, I will spring for the book and mail it to you.

Save your money, M. I know Madelyn was a really unpleasant woman. Yeah, she was right about a few things, but she was still a witch.

DF

Hi all,

Madelyn Murray O'Hair is a great example of how children can be misled. Her son, William, (who supposedly she filed the lawsuit to remove prayer from school to protect) is a born again Christian who has a strong Christian Ministry based out of Washington DC. Yet, his daughter was still a follower of her grandmother, Madelyn, and was murdered along with her grandmother. If she had been following her dad -- instead of her grandmother, she would probably be alive today.

Atheism has been a double whammy in William Murray's life.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Atheism has been a double whammy in William Murray's life.

Extremism in just about any form is generally not a good thing. Read that twice, Bill.