http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24900_Vid...ldier_in_Effigy&only
The saying "I support the troops but not the war.." is B.S. The above is PROOF of what some of these groups are doing....made me sick to watch it.
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I support the Troops, but not the CAUSE, and I do NOT support idiots who act like Sheenan either... But I won't and cannot support ANY cause for the War... in fact, even Bush don't know that.......TODAY!!!
The cause just changes too much .... hence the reason over 75% of the Americans had to stop supporting the cause... it all makes sense, but ONLY if one WANTS to actually see when and why everything is happening the way it is, and why things are going on the way they are....
No one can deny that the USA is SO ready for any kind of change, and no one can deny that Bush is deceptive to all of us.. ... HE wants respect as a President, but he doesn't respect ANY of his people... so it now people are seeing it... and it is about time.
Bush stopped thinking about Americans... long before Americans started seeing what Bush was capable of.
The cause just changes too much .... hence the reason over 75% of the Americans had to stop supporting the cause... it all makes sense, but ONLY if one WANTS to actually see when and why everything is happening the way it is, and why things are going on the way they are....
No one can deny that the USA is SO ready for any kind of change, and no one can deny that Bush is deceptive to all of us.. ... HE wants respect as a President, but he doesn't respect ANY of his people... so it now people are seeing it... and it is about time.
Bush stopped thinking about Americans... long before Americans started seeing what Bush was capable of.
Wow, what a website to gain support for your comment here... that was just wrong... I have searched other places and haven't seen the same thing yet... just on the green football ones...
Now, isn't that what some on here jumped/pounced on PBA for? Using WEIRD web sites?...
Nevermine though, it is an observation ONLY!!!!! So dont worry about any ugly comments back to me.... although every one of you have the right for your own observation, just don't include ME or what I said into it... too many have taken advantage too long... and since I know the "REST OF THE STORY"... I am nicey nicey, but am not open to discuss my opinions... just will post them... read them, dont read them... whatever you WANT to do
Now, isn't that what some on here jumped/pounced on PBA for? Using WEIRD web sites?...
Nevermine though, it is an observation ONLY!!!!! So dont worry about any ugly comments back to me.... although every one of you have the right for your own observation, just don't include ME or what I said into it... too many have taken advantage too long... and since I know the "REST OF THE STORY"... I am nicey nicey, but am not open to discuss my opinions... just will post them... read them, dont read them... whatever you WANT to do
I'll respond the same way I did before when it was posted without sound.
That is despicable. This video should be used to charge all those involved.
That group of loonies in no way represents anyone I've met on TD forum or anyone I have met in my life.
That is despicable. This video should be used to charge all those involved.
That group of loonies in no way represents anyone I've met on TD forum or anyone I have met in my life.
quote:Originally posted by _Joy_:
I'll respond the same way I did before when it was posted without sound.
That is despicable. This video should be used to charge all those involved.
That group of loonies in no way represents anyone I've met on TD forum or anyone I have met in my life.
That might be true, Joy, in most areas of the SE USA....however, go to the Left Coast or the NE USA, and they are all over.
brent, consider the source. looks like a tiny group of extremists.
Me too Brentenman, AND I STILL DETEST WHAT THE NEO CONSERVATIVES ARE USING OUR TROOPS FOR.quote:Originally posted by Brentenman:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24900_Vid...ldier_in_Effigy&only
The saying "I support the troops but not the war.." is B.S. The above is PROOF of what some of these groups are doing....made me sick to watch it.
I find a serious problem in the war debate with those of you who I believe HATE the troops and Love the War.
That is the other dichotomy. LET THE SOLDIERS KILL AND BE KILLED IN AN WAR AGAINST AN IMAGINARY ENEMY FROM AN IMAGINARY ARMY THAT CANNOT BE FOUND.
Brentenman. the war is a crime. People prosecuting it are being sent to commit the crime. What do you not get. The armed forces are for the DEFENSE of the United States against threat of conquest. TELL ME AGAIN, HOW IS AL QAEDA GOING TO CONQUER THE WORLD?
EdEkit, I have said before the liberty we have now comes to us with a bloody handshake. Liberty is not free, it comes with a price.The handshake of a soldier is worth having to wipe your hand. The blood is most likely that of those fallen comarads. Who fought for My and yours freedom.
I do not take take that lightly.
I thank God every day for those who are willing to put their lives on the line for we that care and for the ones who care less.
I do not take take that lightly.
I thank God every day for those who are willing to put their lives on the line for we that care and for the ones who care less.
Yes, as somebody pointed out last time this was posted the person who took the pictures states that these are not her friends and do not represent the group.
Every few months tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of people across the US march and hold candle light vigils and you never see any extreme behavior. They will do street theater and a "die in" but it's nothing like the stuff pictured.
This just shows you how desperate the pro war and Bush people are to discredit critics.
But I do think that although the pictures are offensive it still falls under the protection of free speech. You know the saying, "I may not agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it." Pretty important principle to up hold here.
What's offensive are the thousands of US troops killed and wounded, the reports of US troops killing innocent civilians and the horror of this war while Bush and Cheney wine and dine in luxury and corporate profits roll in.
Every few months tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of people across the US march and hold candle light vigils and you never see any extreme behavior. They will do street theater and a "die in" but it's nothing like the stuff pictured.
This just shows you how desperate the pro war and Bush people are to discredit critics.
But I do think that although the pictures are offensive it still falls under the protection of free speech. You know the saying, "I may not agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it." Pretty important principle to up hold here.
What's offensive are the thousands of US troops killed and wounded, the reports of US troops killing innocent civilians and the horror of this war while Bush and Cheney wine and dine in luxury and corporate profits roll in.
that war has not one DIDDLY thing to do with our freedom!
We invaded another country looking for non existent WMDs.
and how dare ANYONE make a statement one cannot support the troops but not support the cause? THAT statement is BS,,are soldiers not at the mercy to follow orders given to them? I have a total of 9 family members presently serving in various branches of the military.I strongly support them and their fellow military personel .I still do not support the orders those in higher positions are ordering them to do, or where those in higher positions are ordering them to go! THAT is where you will find ALL the BS,in those high positions,playing for OIL!
We invaded another country looking for non existent WMDs.
and how dare ANYONE make a statement one cannot support the troops but not support the cause? THAT statement is BS,,are soldiers not at the mercy to follow orders given to them? I have a total of 9 family members presently serving in various branches of the military.I strongly support them and their fellow military personel .I still do not support the orders those in higher positions are ordering them to do, or where those in higher positions are ordering them to go! THAT is where you will find ALL the BS,in those high positions,playing for OIL!
TELL ME AGAIN, HOW IS AL QAEDA GOING TO CONQUER THE WORLD?
_____________________________________________
Ed,
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
_____________________________________________
Ed,
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
interventor
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
________________________________________________
Yes, there are like minded groups that are coming together and the main common factor is opposing US intervention in the region. Especially to control the oil. But these extremists groups are still a minority. They feed on the injustices and poverty in the region. They use Religion and Nationalism as a recruiting theme.
The US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan and threatening Iran is fueling this growth of the extremists.
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
________________________________________________
Yes, there are like minded groups that are coming together and the main common factor is opposing US intervention in the region. Especially to control the oil. But these extremists groups are still a minority. They feed on the injustices and poverty in the region. They use Religion and Nationalism as a recruiting theme.
The US occupation in Iraq and Afghanistan and threatening Iran is fueling this growth of the extremists.
Plus, I suggest Iraq the Model's latest two postings at:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Omar, a dentist and secular moslim, give better insights than I can to the mind of Baghdadis.
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Omar, a dentist and secular moslim, give better insights than I can to the mind of Baghdadis.
quote:Originally posted by Brentenman:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=24900_Vid...ldier_in_Effigy&only
The saying "I support the troops but not the war.." is B.S. The above is PROOF of what some of these groups are doing....made me sick to watch it.
Your Proof is Right Wing BS!!
Video is pretty hard to dispute, PBA....not to mention, Drudge Report had it linked, and he discussed it tonight at 2319.....
themaxdramatic words and true. I am a veteran, I served specifically as a DUTY to the country. I grew up in a School that taught Accounting and Business Administration to Veterans of WW II and Korea. I spent hours with men who had served honorably, My Step Mother is a Veteran of the War in China. She was a clerical worker in the Flying Tigers. The First Fishing Trip I ever went on was with a Marine Veteran of the War in the Pacific. I resigned a competitive appointment to West Point in August 1961 the Day I learned I had won it.quote:Originally posted by themax:
EdEkit, I have said before the liberty we have now comes to us with a bloody handshake. Liberty is not free, it comes with a price.The handshake of a soldier is worth having to wipe your hand. The blood is most likely that of those fallen comarads. Who fought for My and yours freedom.
I do not take take that lightly.
I thank God every day for those who are willing to put their lives on the line for we that care and for the ones who care less.
I was On the Czech Border in Germany the day the Soviets slammed the doors and started the Berlin Wall, armed with an M 1 and dressed in the combat uniform of the day, Fatigues and a Steel Pot Helmet. I had 16 bullets. And Faced a Communist force that outnumbered us by at least ten to one. I stood my ground. Just like the other men in my squad did, In Virginia after Communications School I was on the tarmac at Andrews Air Force base waiting orders to invade Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I KNOW FULL WELL THE DEMANDS OF KEEPING THIS NATION FREE.
Today this nation I so love is engaged in a great battle to dominate the economic and political lives of the whole world. In 1937 Japan and Germany Set out to do the same thing, dominate the world. I knew literally hundreds of the men and women who fought against that enemy. An army nurse held captive by the Japanese from the invasion of the Philippines till the end of the war. A marine who had landed on 9 pacific islands with his legs shot to hell. Amputees, men with parts of their faces shot away. My Step-Mother was in the Flying Tigers, Her father a Colonel in Chang Kai-shek's Army. Believe me, I know that it takes Blood and Guts to keep ANY nation free. It takes an Arrogant Imbecile to try to take the liberty of ANY nation.
The position taken by people who SUPPORT the objective of world domination is impossible to understand.
What benefit accrues to YOU if the United States manages to dominate even the middle east with this policy of aggression and imperialist expansion? Do you expect great wealth and security? The Germans of the Third Reich did.
Do you expect to be allowed to continue enjoying the benefits of liberty? The supporters of the Russian Revolution told their opposition that they would. Do you think that you will be un-dominated by a government that wishes to dominate?
War is not always wrong, but it is always evil. This war, this aggression, in Iraq is BOTH. It is wrong, and it is evil. Supporting it is blindness. No nation can dominate another until it is dominated from within.
Today you are free to speak and act in support of the conquest of the world, and I am free to speak and act against it. If this continues, You will be called on to report and silence me. You will be in the same risk of being silenced as the opponents, and your refusal will be seen as treason.
By demanding domination over others, you require domination of yourself. The owner of slaves was enslaved by his property. To keep the slave he had to devote his life to maintaining domination over those slaves. He was a captive of his prisoners. Ask any prison guard. They are in prison every day, and they are as captive as the prisoners themselves. Be grateful that THEY, and not YOU hold the lives of those convicts in their hands on your behalf. Be grateful to Brentenman and Airborn 92 that they and not you stand to defend this nation. Pray that they will not be called on to expand this war. Pray and struggle to bring those in this war HOME. Campaign for withdrawal from Iraq, and the beginning of businesslike relations with the other nations of this earth. Expansion of domination will be resisted. Iraq's insurgency is PROOF POSITIVE of that. Soviet expansion was resisted, Japanese expansion was resisted, German expansion was resisted. French expansion was resisted. British expansion was resisted for GENERATIONS. All empires collapse from within, but the forces that bring on the collapse are all external, the resistance of the dominated by the dominator.
interventor
Plus, I suggest Iraq the Model's latest two postings at:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Omar, a dentist and secular moslim, give better insights than I can to the mind of Baghdadis.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
No one is supporting the extremists taking over, we are talking about the best way to keep them from taking over. And Omar is actually defending Saddam's regime.
Captured al Qaeda documents show that the Iraq invasion has been the best recruiting tool al Qaeda had. Their numbers are growing. They were a small group that have grown through anger at US invasion and atrocities.
The Iraqi people want the US out but we are there for the oil. The regular Iraqi resistance wanted no part of al Qaeda and even had skirmishes with them but as the war drags on they are beginning to make alliances with them. They have said they want peace talks with US to negotiate a US withdrawal. There may be a civil war after we leave but they will work out the differences. Despite all the killing going on the majority of Iraqi's did their best to avoid a civil war. The US is backing Maliki who depends on the support Sadr, as well as the US to keep power.
There are other blogs and journalists to read besides Omar. There is Dahr Jamal who is good as well as journalist Robert Fisk.
Plus, I suggest Iraq the Model's latest two postings at:
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
Omar, a dentist and secular moslim, give better insights than I can to the mind of Baghdadis.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
No one is supporting the extremists taking over, we are talking about the best way to keep them from taking over. And Omar is actually defending Saddam's regime.
Captured al Qaeda documents show that the Iraq invasion has been the best recruiting tool al Qaeda had. Their numbers are growing. They were a small group that have grown through anger at US invasion and atrocities.
The Iraqi people want the US out but we are there for the oil. The regular Iraqi resistance wanted no part of al Qaeda and even had skirmishes with them but as the war drags on they are beginning to make alliances with them. They have said they want peace talks with US to negotiate a US withdrawal. There may be a civil war after we leave but they will work out the differences. Despite all the killing going on the majority of Iraqi's did their best to avoid a civil war. The US is backing Maliki who depends on the support Sadr, as well as the US to keep power.
There are other blogs and journalists to read besides Omar. There is Dahr Jamal who is good as well as journalist Robert Fisk.
quote:Originally posted by Brentenman:
Video is pretty hard to dispute, PBA....not to mention, Drudge Report had it linked, and he discussed it tonight at 2319.....
I take it your still in the Military correct?
Then why in hell instead of you patting this Hero (Bush)of yours on the back in this form, why don't you step up, and be part of the GREAT War in Iraq?
I have several of my friends at Hurlbert Air Force base in Fl.(home of the C-130 gun-ship)that say this is a futile war, and that they have also done 5 tours over in that hell-hole. And they are taking retirement from the military because of it. And thats ashame they are good pilots,and brave men, who like my self hate War.
By the way we lost (5) American Service personel yesterday 3-25-07) due to this idiot BUSH and his Republican Cronies.
"A patroit will support his nation always, and his government when it is right"
Mark Twain
Mark Twain
quote:Originally posted by Delldude:
I take it your still in the Military correct?
Then why in hell instead of you patting this Hero (Bush)of yours on the back in this form, why don't you step up, and be part of the GREAT War in Iraq?
1. I AM in the military
2. I HAVE been to Iraq before. Why am I not there, YET AGAIN? Hey, don't ask me, ask Uncle Sam....as I am awaiting my orders on where I will be in the next 60 days.....
Delldude: your response was hateful and insulting. I leave it at that, and suggest you do the same.
BrentenmanPeace be with you.
Several incidents involving US soldiers violating the rights of Iraqis have come to light over the past four years. There has been Abuse of Prisoners. Rape and murder of civilians. Retribution killings. Shooting of wounded combatants. The use of White Phosphorous in Civilian areas. And other incidents that do not rise to the level of criminal in the form of disrespect, including the public display of Prisoners of War for propaganda purposes.
You excuse those as acts in the heat of battle. I agree with all the approbation regarding the burning of a US soldier in effigy. Have not excused or defended it. BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD REFUSE ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ IN THE SAME WAY, AND FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EHREN WATADA DID, AND I THINK YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE AGGRESSION AGAINST IRAQ, OR ARE TO FRIGHTENED FOR YOUR OWN FUTURE TO TAKE A STAND.
Several incidents involving US soldiers violating the rights of Iraqis have come to light over the past four years. There has been Abuse of Prisoners. Rape and murder of civilians. Retribution killings. Shooting of wounded combatants. The use of White Phosphorous in Civilian areas. And other incidents that do not rise to the level of criminal in the form of disrespect, including the public display of Prisoners of War for propaganda purposes.
You excuse those as acts in the heat of battle. I agree with all the approbation regarding the burning of a US soldier in effigy. Have not excused or defended it. BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD REFUSE ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ IN THE SAME WAY, AND FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EHREN WATADA DID, AND I THINK YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE AGGRESSION AGAINST IRAQ, OR ARE TO FRIGHTENED FOR YOUR OWN FUTURE TO TAKE A STAND.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
BrentenmanPeace be with you.
Several incidents involving US soldiers violating the rights of Iraqis have come to light over the past four years. There has been Abuse of Prisoners. Rape and murder of civilians. Retribution killings. Shooting of wounded combatants. The use of White Phosphorous in Civilian areas. And other incidents that do not rise to the level of criminal in the form of disrespect, including the public display of Prisoners of War for propaganda purposes.
You excuse those as acts in the heat of battle. I agree with all the approbation regarding the burning of a US soldier in effigy. Have not excused or defended it. BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD REFUSE ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ IN THE SAME WAY, AND FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EHREN WATADA DID, AND I THINK YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE AGGRESSION AGAINST IRAQ, OR ARE TO FRIGHTENED FOR YOUR OWN FUTURE TO TAKE A STAND.
EdEKit:
I am a better man than those traitors you hold in high regard, and I am a better man than those who commit wrongful deeds, albeit few.
If you think of me otherwise, then you have surely misjudged me.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
BrentenmanPeace be with you.
Several incidents involving US soldiers violating the rights of Iraqis have come to light over the past four years. There has been Abuse of Prisoners. Rape and murder of civilians. Retribution killings. Shooting of wounded combatants. The use of White Phosphorous in Civilian areas. And other incidents that do not rise to the level of criminal in the form of disrespect, including the public display of Prisoners of War for propaganda purposes.
You excuse those as acts in the heat of battle. I agree with all the approbation regarding the burning of a US soldier in effigy. Have not excused or defended it. BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD REFUSE ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ IN THE SAME WAY, AND FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EHREN WATADA DID, AND I THINK YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE AGGRESSION AGAINST IRAQ, OR ARE TO FRIGHTENED FOR YOUR OWN FUTURE TO TAKE A STAND.
You don't have the right, as a Soldier, to refuse to deploy to Iraq. Until the Supreme Court rules that our actions in Iraq are somehow illegal, you have no legal right to refuse a lawfull order. You know better than this Ed.
I don't think of you otherwise. I have a great deal of respect for you, and believe it or not, sympathy. I have been in your boots, and made the same decisions you have.quote:Originally posted by Brentenman:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
BrentenmanPeace be with you.
Several incidents involving US soldiers violating the rights of Iraqis have come to light over the past four years. There has been Abuse of Prisoners. Rape and murder of civilians. Retribution killings. Shooting of wounded combatants. The use of White Phosphorous in Civilian areas. And other incidents that do not rise to the level of criminal in the form of disrespect, including the public display of Prisoners of War for propaganda purposes.
You excuse those as acts in the heat of battle. I agree with all the approbation regarding the burning of a US soldier in effigy. Have not excused or defended it. BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD REFUSE ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ IN THE SAME WAY, AND FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EHREN WATADA DID, AND I THINK YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE AGGRESSION AGAINST IRAQ, OR ARE TO FRIGHTENED FOR YOUR OWN FUTURE TO TAKE A STAND.
EdEKit:
I am a better man than those traitors you hold in high regard, and I am a better man than those who commit wrongful deeds, albeit few.
If you think of me otherwise, then you have surely misjudged me.
I believe in the civic duty to defend the USA. I happen to love the Principals this nation stands for. I think, and strongly support, the Constitution of this nation. And despite the impression contrary, I am fully committed to progress toward a just and equitable society, maintained by people united by a common cause for peace and tranquility.
I will not settle for prosperity for some and poverty for the masses. I will not settle for a society that turns its back on the Poor and Oppressed, but I cannot support making war to find peace.
Lives, wasted for the cause of domination are lives worse than wasted. They are lives taken in the pursuit of self enrichment.
You have clearly devoted your life to my security, I devoted some of my life to yours. My youngest child is a woman of 35. I am only guessing, but she would be about your age. She was born into a world filled with the fear of global War. A world marked by a conflict between two great nations in opposition. I was born into a world at war with nations that wanted conquest and expansion. That world was one of deprivation and constant vigilance. It was a world at war on two continental battlefields. Your world has been filled with small wars, contained on small battlefields. It is that way because the Continental Nations, the USA, Russia, and China have looked at each other through gun sights from behind walls of threat.
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Carter and finally Reagan worked tirelessly to reduce that threat. We fought two major wars to prove our steadfast will to end that conflict. Korea and Vietnam. WE WON. The Cold war ended. Glasnost, the Chinese Economic Miracle, the European Union, The General Agreement on trade, all resulted from that threat ending.
TODAY: and I mean now, under the direction of George W Bush, and the Neo Conservatives, We have become an aggressor nation. We, you and I, have embarked on a course of World Domination. This is not the American Way. It is the way of Ghengis Khan, The Vandals, The Vikings the Romans, Napoleon, Wilhelm, Mao, Hitler, Stalin and Hirohito.
I find, in you and others, a gaping lack of understanding of the meaning of domination by military force.
The Bush Doctrine, and it is a genuine doctrine, of Domination has re-kindled the Cold War. America, in the grasp of the Neo Cons has become an Aggressor Nation. The Only response is for other nations to prepare for war. The world is preparing to defend itself against YOU, and the rest of the Military Might of the United States.
That Disgusts and Shames Me. I can see in daily life in my own small world the result of domination. I have two screaming examples. The Ukrainian immigrant who drives a gasoline tank truck who is a college educated electrical engineer, a professional soccer player, and a fine human being. Disqualified from working even as an electrician because he was Schooled in the Soviet Union. He played Soccer on the Red Army Soccer Team, and has been turned away from coaching even junior league soccer teams.
And Ramon, the Mexican immigrant, bi lingual, trained Elementary School Teacher, Denied work as a teacher because he had to be granted amnesty for illegal entry to obtain his citizenship in this nation.
I BELIEVE WITH ALL MY HEART THAT YOU ARE ON THE WRONG SIDE. Not because you wish to conquer the world, but because your job has become to conquer the world. Even if you don't believe that, it is the Bush Doctrine.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:I don't think of you otherwise. I have a great deal of respect for you, and believe it or not, sympathy. I have been in your boots, and made the same decisions you have.quote:Originally posted by Brentenman:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:
BrentenmanPeace be with you.
Several incidents involving US soldiers violating the rights of Iraqis have come to light over the past four years. There has been Abuse of Prisoners. Rape and murder of civilians. Retribution killings. Shooting of wounded combatants. The use of White Phosphorous in Civilian areas. And other incidents that do not rise to the level of criminal in the form of disrespect, including the public display of Prisoners of War for propaganda purposes.
You excuse those as acts in the heat of battle. I agree with all the approbation regarding the burning of a US soldier in effigy. Have not excused or defended it. BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD REFUSE ORDERS TO GO TO IRAQ IN THE SAME WAY, AND FOR THE SAME REASON THAT EHREN WATADA DID, AND I THINK YOU EITHER SUPPORT THE AGGRESSION AGAINST IRAQ, OR ARE TO FRIGHTENED FOR YOUR OWN FUTURE TO TAKE A STAND.
EdEKit:
I am a better man than those traitors you hold in high regard, and I am a better man than those who commit wrongful deeds, albeit few.
If you think of me otherwise, then you have surely misjudged me.
I believe in the civic duty to defend the USA. I happen to love the Principals this nation stands for. I think, and strongly support, the Constitution of this nation. And despite the impression contrary, I am fully committed to progress toward a just and equitable society, maintained by people united by a common cause for peace and tranquility.
I will not settle for prosperity for some and poverty for the masses. I will not settle for a society that turns its back on the Poor and Oppressed, but I cannot support making war to find peace.
Lives, wasted for the cause of domination are lives worse than wasted. They are lives taken in the pursuit of self enrichment.
You have clearly devoted your life to my security, I devoted some of my life to yours. My youngest child is a woman of 35. I am only guessing, but she would be about your age. She was born into a world filled with the fear of global War. A world marked by a conflict between two great nations in opposition. I was born into a world at war with nations that wanted conquest and expansion. That world was one of deprivation and constant vigilance. It was a world at war on two continental battlefields. Your world has been filled with small wars, contained on small battlefields. It is that way because the Continental Nations, the USA, Russia, and China have looked at each other through gun sights from behind walls of threat.
Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Carter and finally Reagan worked tirelessly to reduce that threat. We fought two major wars to prove our steadfast will to end that conflict. Korea and Vietnam. WE WON. The Cold war ended. Glasnost, the Chinese Economic Miracle, the European Union, The General Agreement on trade, all resulted from that threat ending.
TODAY: and I mean now, under the direction of George W Bush, and the Neo Conservatives, We have become an aggressor nation. We, you and I, have embarked on a course of World Domination. This is not the American Way. It is the way of Ghengis Khan, The Vandals, The Vikings the Romans, Napoleon, Wilhelm, Mao, Hitler, Stalin and Hirohito.
I find, in you and others, a gaping lack of understanding of the meaning of domination by military force.
The Bush Doctrine, and it is a genuine doctrine, of Domination has re-kindled the Cold War. America, in the grasp of the Neo Cons has become an Aggressor Nation. The Only response is for other nations to prepare for war. The world is preparing to defend itself against YOU, and the rest of the Military Might of the United States.
That Disgusts and Shames Me. I can see in daily life in my own small world the result of domination. I have two screaming examples. The Ukrainian immigrant who drives a gasoline tank truck who is a college educated electrical engineer, a professional soccer player, and a fine human being. Disqualified from working even as an electrician because he was Schooled in the Soviet Union. He played Soccer on the Red Army Soccer Team, and has been turned away from coaching even junior league soccer teams.
And Ramon, the Mexican immigrant, bi lingual, trained Elementary School Teacher, Denied work as a teacher because he had to be granted amnesty for illegal entry to obtain his citizenship in this nation.
I BELIEVE WITH ALL MY HEART THAT YOU ARE ON THE WRONG SIDE. Not because you wish to conquer the world, but because your job has become to conquer the world. Even if you don't believe that, it is the Bush Doctrine.
The truly sad part Ed, is that you believe all this babble that you are spouting.
This is a group of ANARCHISTS - they are neither left or right. This is not Cindy Sheehan - please. Look it up. Give me a break.
If you would like to waste an hour or two, try tracking down the often quoted, never seen Al Qaida, or Al Qaeda or Al Neda website. You will find a lot of, well, websites, but they won't be the Al Qaeda website. One I found opened with Owned by the USA. It actually had some Arabic content. and an implied warning that the government got em again.quote:Originally posted by interventor:
TELL ME AGAIN, HOW IS AL QAEDA GOING TO CONQUER THE WORLD?
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Ed,
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
For substantial information, go here, and watch online. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/view/
Why is it that you insist on saying that the war in Iraq is protecting our liberty? Iraq, with its 26 million people COULD NEVER THREATEN THE USA. Figure it out. we outnumber them 12 to one.
We are an aggressor nation and the invasion of Iraq is about controlling the oil. The latest bills in Iraq that are privatizing the oil so oil companies can come in and take the oil is the proof the left has been talking about all this time.
The administration swore up and down it had nothing to do with stealing the oil but they are greedy liars and thieves. Most on the left understand that the soldiers believe their mission but it's a lie. The Iraqi people know why we are there and so does the rest of the world. Our government and media lies to us.
It is the American people who pay for this war with blood, tears and dollars and it is the oil corporations and the defense industry that profits. It's a disgrace.
The administration swore up and down it had nothing to do with stealing the oil but they are greedy liars and thieves. Most on the left understand that the soldiers believe their mission but it's a lie. The Iraqi people know why we are there and so does the rest of the world. Our government and media lies to us.
It is the American people who pay for this war with blood, tears and dollars and it is the oil corporations and the defense industry that profits. It's a disgrace.
quote:Originally posted by meanasasnake:
This is a group of ANARCHISTS - they are neither left or right. This is not Cindy Sheehan - please. Look it up. Give me a break.
Chasing rabbits here.
quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:If you would like to waste an hour or two, try tracking down the often quoted, never seen Al Qaida, or Al Qaeda or Al Neda website. You will find a lot of, well, websites, but they won't be the Al Qaeda website. One I found opened with Owned by the USA. It actually had some Arabic content. and an implied warning that the government got em again.quote:Originally posted by interventor:
TELL ME AGAIN, HOW IS AL QAEDA GOING TO CONQUER THE WORLD?
_____________________________________________
Ed,
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
For substantial information, go here, and watch online. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/view/
Why is it that you insist on saying that the war in Iraq is protecting our liberty? Iraq, with its 26 million people COULD NEVER THREATEN THE USA. Figure it out. we outnumber them 12 to one.
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
Southern Patriot:
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iraq did not attack us and there were no al Qaeda in Iraq. Now it is a recruiting and training ground for them. The Iraq occupation is the best thing that happened for al Qaeda. The more we people we kill the more anger and hatred grows toward the US. They have grown considerably and have sent out fighters across the world. Iraq is a the biggest blunder we could have made. Bush did exactly what bin Laden hoped he would. And he continues too. The whole world see the US killing civilains and committing atrocties and it's all about the oil.
It has made us less safe then ever before. Al Qaeda are a small group of extremists that most Muslim people don't want anything to do with. They even had skirmishes with the Iraqi resistance in the beginning but are now making alliance. They are also recruiting world wide.
As far as 9/11 goes if we had a decent administration they would have paid attention to all the warnings they were getting about an attack about to occur on US soil it could have been prevented. But they were too busy trying to think up ways to invade Iraq so they could steal the oil.
Richard Clarke tried to brief them but they down graded al Qaeda as a threat. Ex CIA director Tenet tried to warn them but he was given the brush off. A number of countries intelligence services, like Israel, Germany, Egypt and others all said their agents and contacts in the camps were reporting a major strike about to occur in the US. Bush and bunch ignored it all. They are not only liars and thieves they are completely incompetent.
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iraq did not attack us and there were no al Qaeda in Iraq. Now it is a recruiting and training ground for them. The Iraq occupation is the best thing that happened for al Qaeda. The more we people we kill the more anger and hatred grows toward the US. They have grown considerably and have sent out fighters across the world. Iraq is a the biggest blunder we could have made. Bush did exactly what bin Laden hoped he would. And he continues too. The whole world see the US killing civilains and committing atrocties and it's all about the oil.
It has made us less safe then ever before. Al Qaeda are a small group of extremists that most Muslim people don't want anything to do with. They even had skirmishes with the Iraqi resistance in the beginning but are now making alliance. They are also recruiting world wide.
As far as 9/11 goes if we had a decent administration they would have paid attention to all the warnings they were getting about an attack about to occur on US soil it could have been prevented. But they were too busy trying to think up ways to invade Iraq so they could steal the oil.
Richard Clarke tried to brief them but they down graded al Qaeda as a threat. Ex CIA director Tenet tried to warn them but he was given the brush off. A number of countries intelligence services, like Israel, Germany, Egypt and others all said their agents and contacts in the camps were reporting a major strike about to occur in the US. Bush and bunch ignored it all. They are not only liars and thieves they are completely incompetent.
quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
Southern Patriot:
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iraq did not attack us and there were no al Qaeda in Iraq. Now it is a recruiting and training ground for them. The Iraq occupation is the best thing that happened for al Qaeda. The more we people we kill the more anger and hatred grows toward the US. They have grown considerably and have sent out fighters across the world. Iraq is a the biggest blunder we could have made. Bush did exactly what bin Laden hoped he would. And he continues too. The whole world see the US killing civilains and committing atrocties and it's all about the oil.
It has made us less safe then ever before. Al Qaeda are a small group of extremists that most Muslim people don't want anything to do with. They even had skirmishes with the Iraqi resistance in the beginning but are now making alliance. They are also recruiting world wide.
As far as 9/11 goes if we had a decent administration they would have paid attention to all the warnings they were getting about an attack about to occur on US soil it could have been prevented. But they were too busy trying to think up ways to invade Iraq so they could steal the oil.
Richard Clarke tried to brief them but they down graded al Qaeda as a threat. Ex CIA director Tenet tried to warn them but he was given the brush off. A number of countries intelligence services, like Israel, Germany, Egypt and others all said their agents and contacts in the camps were reporting a major strike about to occur in the US. Bush and bunch ignored it all. They are not only liars and thieves they are completely incompetent.
Yeah, you're right. If we had a decent administration when Clinton was in office, we could have headed things off a long time before 9/11 ever happen. As far as Al Qaeda growing... I don't know where you get your info bbut I'm pretty confident that we are killing them off and thining the heard on a regular bbasis in Iraq daily. There aren't more, they just come to Iraq to fight.
quote:Originally posted by Southern Patriot:quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
Southern Patriot:
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iraq did not attack us and there were no al Qaeda in Iraq. Now it is a recruiting and training ground for them. The Iraq occupation is the best thing that happened for al Qaeda. The more we people we kill the more anger and hatred grows toward the US. They have grown considerably and have sent out fighters across the world. Iraq is a the biggest blunder we could have made. Bush did exactly what bin Laden hoped he would. And he continues too. The whole world see the US killing civilains and committing atrocties and it's all about the oil.
It has made us less safe then ever before. Al Qaeda are a small group of extremists that most Muslim people don't want anything to do with. They even had skirmishes with the Iraqi resistance in the beginning but are now making alliance. They are also recruiting world wide.
As far as 9/11 goes if we had a decent administration they would have paid attention to all the warnings they were getting about an attack about to occur on US soil it could have been prevented. But they were too busy trying to think up ways to invade Iraq so they could steal the oil.
Richard Clarke tried to brief them but they down graded al Qaeda as a threat. Ex CIA director Tenet tried to warn them but he was given the brush off. A number of countries intelligence services, like Israel, Germany, Egypt and others all said their agents and contacts in the camps were reporting a major strike about to occur in the US. Bush and bunch ignored it all. They are not only liars and thieves they are completely incompetent.
Yeah, you're right. If we had a decent administration when Clinton was in office, we could have headed things off a long time before 9/11 ever happen. As far as Al Qaeda growing... I don't know where you get your info bbut I'm pretty confident that we are killing them off and thining the heard on a regular bbasis in Iraq daily. There aren't more, they just come to Iraq to fight.
How does Clinton come into play here?
I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire
Of course, that video shows some wicked attitudes, but the G.I.s about which they chant defend their right to do what they're doing. Seems weird, but anything besides that setup would be void of freedom.
-Voltaire
Of course, that video shows some wicked attitudes, but the G.I.s about which they chant defend their right to do what they're doing. Seems weird, but anything besides that setup would be void of freedom.
quote:Originally posted by pba:quote:Originally posted by Southern Patriot:quote:Originally posted by Pogo142:
Southern Patriot:
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Iraq did not attack us and there were no al Qaeda in Iraq. Now it is a recruiting and training ground for them. The Iraq occupation is the best thing that happened for al Qaeda. The more we people we kill the more anger and hatred grows toward the US. They have grown considerably and have sent out fighters across the world. Iraq is a the biggest blunder we could have made. Bush did exactly what bin Laden hoped he would. And he continues too. The whole world see the US killing civilains and committing atrocties and it's all about the oil.
It has made us less safe then ever before. Al Qaeda are a small group of extremists that most Muslim people don't want anything to do with. They even had skirmishes with the Iraqi resistance in the beginning but are now making alliance. They are also recruiting world wide.
As far as 9/11 goes if we had a decent administration they would have paid attention to all the warnings they were getting about an attack about to occur on US soil it could have been prevented. But they were too busy trying to think up ways to invade Iraq so they could steal the oil.
Richard Clarke tried to brief them but they down graded al Qaeda as a threat. Ex CIA director Tenet tried to warn them but he was given the brush off. A number of countries intelligence services, like Israel, Germany, Egypt and others all said their agents and contacts in the camps were reporting a major strike about to occur in the US. Bush and bunch ignored it all. They are not only liars and thieves they are completely incompetent.
Yeah, you're right. If we had a decent administration when Clinton was in office, we could have headed things off a long time before 9/11 ever happen. As far as Al Qaeda growing... I don't know where you get your info bbut I'm pretty confident that we are killing them off and thining the heard on a regular bbasis in Iraq daily. There aren't more, they just come to Iraq to fight.
How does Clinton come into play here?
He blames GWB for 9/11 and I say Clinton should have dealt with Al Qaeda long before 9/11.
quote:Originally posted by one who posts:
I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire
Of course, that video shows some wicked attitudes, but the G.I.s about which they chant defend their right to do what they're doing. Seems weird, but anything besides that setup would be void of freedom.
BTW, lest any of you with degrees from Google try to dispute the exact wording, I took it out of quotation marks on purpose because the verbatim phrase is unknown and even the attribution to Voltaire is disputed. Either way, it's a nice summary of freedom.
Exactly the point SP...the 19 who hit the towers and the Pentagon are DEAD. They took only those lives and buildings. That strategy leaves the peace of the grave, and nothing else.quote:Originally posted by Southern Patriot:quote:Originally posted by EdEKit:If you would like to waste an hour or two, try tracking down the often quoted, never seen Al Qaida, or Al Qaeda or Al Neda website. You will find a lot of, well, websites, but they won't be the Al Qaeda website. One I found opened with Owned by the USA. It actually had some Arabic content. and an implied warning that the government got em again.quote:Originally posted by interventor:
TELL ME AGAIN, HOW IS AL QAEDA GOING TO CONQUER THE WORLD?
_____________________________________________
Ed,
Al Qaeda, by itself, its but a part of the problem. Add the network terrorists recruiting and training sites, the caliphate station broadcasting in Europe and the middle east, the well funded whahabi/salifist recruitment and takeover of moderate mosques and, hence, communities, and then you have a problem.
No one thought a few Frei Korpsmen like the NSDAP in Bavaria would be much of a problem. The world learned different, to its horror. It not the pieces of the puzzle that is the problem, its the all the pieces together. Not a true conspiracy, but like minded groups coming together.
For substantial information, go here, and watch online. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/yeariniraq/view/
Why is it that you insist on saying that the war in Iraq is protecting our liberty? Iraq, with its 26 million people COULD NEVER THREATEN THE USA. Figure it out. we outnumber them 12 to one.
It doesn't take 26M Ed. Remember, it only took 19 to kill over 3000 on 9/11. We can fight'em there or we can fight'em here Ed, your choice.
It is the people who sent them, and they, AlQaeda are just not numerous enough, or disciplined enough to do the job. The reason that AlQaeda is recruiting is, or should be obvious, they need to increase their manpower to about 50 million DISCIPLINED troops if they expect to hold a nation of 300 million under their boots. For the USA to accomplish World domination we need a One Billion Man Army. Where you gonna get that?
We don't want or need world dominance. Just safety from Muslim who think we should all live under sharia (sp?) law. My point about 19 is that they killed 3000+ with 19 and 3 planes. What could a handfull do with a nuke, dirty bomb etc...?
quote:Originally posted by smurph:
that war has not one DIDDLY thing to do with our freedom!
We invaded another country looking for non existent WMDs.
and how dare ANYONE make a statement one cannot support the troops but not support the cause? THAT statement is BS,,are soldiers not at the mercy to follow orders given to them? I have a total of 9 family members presently serving in various branches of the military.I strongly support them and their fellow military personel .I still do not support the orders those in higher positions are ordering them to do, or where those in higher positions are ordering them to go! THAT is where you will find ALL the BS,in those high positions,playing for OIL!
WMD... that went out the window about 3 years ago.. there have been about 5 different "CAUSES" since then... How the heck does ANYONE out there even KNOW which CAUSE to support?????? That is why you get so many people saying they support the Troops but not the CAUSE... Because they no longer KNOW the CAUSE... it has changed too many times with too many lies to boot.
Good comment smurph!!!!
There is something else, and you should look into it on your own. It's the history of war. Rumsfeld said we could take Iraq down with 35 thousand troops, and our advanced technology. He was right, we could, but you have to put something in its place when you have finished. Brentenman is in the Artillery. An important cog in the war machine, but He will be the first to admit that artillery does not win wars. It helps to win battles. It is worthless without Infantry, Engineers and Support.
An Army Travels on its stomach.
Al Qaeda lacks Infantry, Artillery, Engineers, Logistics and weaponry. If they are to get all of that, in any timely manner, they need alliances.
To get alliances, they provoke an attack on an innocent country, in Russia they seek attack on Chechneya, In Europe and the US they draw an attack on Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Muslim World in General. The result. a unified alliance against their enemy, the people who attacked Islam and Iraq and Afghanistan.
Bush was looking for a Cause Belli to get you, and the rest of American to support an attack and invasion on Iraq. It was his objective in seeking the Presidency. Al Qaeda gave him that cause, 9/11 He took the bait. You Took the Bait, Congress took the Bait, the United Nations took the Bait. We are now hooked. Two choices, escape the hook, or get caught in the net. It took nearly 200 years for the USA to grow from 13 states to 50. It has taken over 2000 years to reach the state of unity we see today in Europe. I has taken 6000 if you count the very ancient empires of the Phonecians Greeks and Romans as attempts to unify all of Europe. China seems to have been unified for 6000 years or so.
The Unification always comes with peace between differing cultures. It often, but not always comes with conquest of the weaker nations. But, conquest by force is not necessary. The European Union is proof of that. Two Thousand Years of war failed to bring about unification. But, within our lifetimes, Europe has gone from internal warfare to unification without any major shooting war. The EU may be the best example of how nations can come together for their common good. The UN is a global attempt to do the same, but one nation among equals is NOT your objective. You want to be the dominator. You do not want to share power with Iraq, Iran, Saudi, Afghanistan, Africa, Russia, South America, and so on.
Well, just like you won't have me pushing you around, and I won't have you pushing me around, Nations will NOT HAVE OTHER NATIONS PUSHING THEM AROUND, exploiting their resources, subjugating their people, or robbing them of opportunity for prosperity.
An Army Travels on its stomach.
Al Qaeda lacks Infantry, Artillery, Engineers, Logistics and weaponry. If they are to get all of that, in any timely manner, they need alliances.
To get alliances, they provoke an attack on an innocent country, in Russia they seek attack on Chechneya, In Europe and the US they draw an attack on Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Muslim World in General. The result. a unified alliance against their enemy, the people who attacked Islam and Iraq and Afghanistan.
Bush was looking for a Cause Belli to get you, and the rest of American to support an attack and invasion on Iraq. It was his objective in seeking the Presidency. Al Qaeda gave him that cause, 9/11 He took the bait. You Took the Bait, Congress took the Bait, the United Nations took the Bait. We are now hooked. Two choices, escape the hook, or get caught in the net. It took nearly 200 years for the USA to grow from 13 states to 50. It has taken over 2000 years to reach the state of unity we see today in Europe. I has taken 6000 if you count the very ancient empires of the Phonecians Greeks and Romans as attempts to unify all of Europe. China seems to have been unified for 6000 years or so.
The Unification always comes with peace between differing cultures. It often, but not always comes with conquest of the weaker nations. But, conquest by force is not necessary. The European Union is proof of that. Two Thousand Years of war failed to bring about unification. But, within our lifetimes, Europe has gone from internal warfare to unification without any major shooting war. The EU may be the best example of how nations can come together for their common good. The UN is a global attempt to do the same, but one nation among equals is NOT your objective. You want to be the dominator. You do not want to share power with Iraq, Iran, Saudi, Afghanistan, Africa, Russia, South America, and so on.
Well, just like you won't have me pushing you around, and I won't have you pushing me around, Nations will NOT HAVE OTHER NATIONS PUSHING THEM AROUND, exploiting their resources, subjugating their people, or robbing them of opportunity for prosperity.