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Are We "Dumbing Down" Our Young People?

Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Hi to my Forum Friends,

If you ask your children, or grandchildren, to tell you the meaning of the Fourth of July -- what will they tell you? If you tell them it was the American War of Independence -- will they know who we fought for our independence? According to this report; most of them cannot answer either question.

On the PBS NewsHour show last night with news anchor, Judy Woodruff, during the Political Wrap session, a weekly session of political analysis with syndicated columnist Mark Shields and New York Times columnist David Brooks -- they discussed an alarming fact about the American education system today.

The following is a transcript of that portion of the show which really caught my attention -- 25% of Americans polled (40% of those 19-29 years old) -- DID NOT know who American fought to win our Independence. Tomorrow is our Independence Day, July 4th -- and one fourth to almost one half of Americans do now know what we really celebrate:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

JUDY WOODRUFF: Speaking of the Fourth of July, a poll I noticed today -- Marist College in New York did a poll which showed that a fourth of Americans, when you ask them from what country did the United States win its independence, one-fourth of Americans said they weren't sure or they didn't know. And 40 percent of 18-to-29-year-olds in this country said they didn't know or weren't sure.

What does that say?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes. I think it is an insult to Abraham Lincoln's leadership of the Revolutionary War. (He was making a joke!)

DAVID BROOKS: No. To me, the substance of it is that we have traded history for social studies in schools, that we don't do the ABCs, here is what happened when.

And I notice this when I talk to kids, including sometimes my own kids. They just don't get the dates. They don't get the dates. They don't have the scaffolding of history. And they do a lot more social structure. They do cultures. They do this. They do that.

But they don't have the basic -- the facts and lineage of what happened when. And, so, those basic facts if, you don't have the scaffolding, you are not going to remember. You're not going to know how to organize it and put it all together into some sort of theory.

MARK SHIELDS: We're a lot more sensitive, but we're a lot less informed.

What is rather terrifying is the figure you cited about 40 percent of the people under the age of 29. And 80 percent, close to, over -- those over 45 do know. There was something going on in schools. The people, the older people are less likely to have gone to college than are the younger ones.

And the idea that somebody is going through college and graduating and not knowing a fundamental fact like that is terrifying and it's depressing. And...

JUDY WOODRUFF: I mean, when I saw the poll, I looked at it and looked at it again, and checked the validity, checked it with another pollster, and they said, these are real numbers.

MARK SHIELDS: Yes. It's not good news.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Now, contrast that with Naturalized Americans -- those who are born in another country, then immigrate to America -- and, on a very proud day years later; become American Citizens! I am proud to say my wife is one of these Naturalized American Citizens.

But, they do not just raise their hands, swear allegiance, and then are handed a certificate. No, they have to pass a test to become an American Citizen. I wonder, if we who were so fortunate to be born in America -- if we had to take this same test to affirm and keep our American Citizenship; how many could pass the test?

A major part of that test is about American History and the American Government. Right now, I am looking at one of the books my wife, Dory, had to study for her citizenship. The title is "Our American Government" -- not a pamphlet; no, this book is a text book, one inch thick.

We have to take our hats off to the Naturalized American Citizens -- for they most likely know more about America, our history and our government, than most young Americans who have graduated from college in the last few decades.

As news anchor, Judy Woodruff, asks us, "What does that say?" Yes, what does that say about the American Education System? It tells me that we have traded our American Heritage, our American History -- for a Liberal Social Agenda.

This tells me that we in America are "dumbing down" our young people and getting them into "lock step" with a Liberal Socialist Agenda. We have begun to emulate China as we systematically "dumb down" the American citizenry.

Wake up! America! It is time for a rebirth of the America which was born on July 4th, 1776!

Our Pledge of Allegiance tells us: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

True, the phrase one nation under God was not in the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, when it was incorporated by an act of Congress. The original Pledge was written by Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister -- who was also a Socialist.

As chairman a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute, for which he wrote his "Pledge of Allegiance."

But, being a Christian who was also a Socialist; he left God out of the picture. In 1891, he was pressured into leaving his church because of his socialist sermons.

However, praise God, our national leaders in Congress were led, in 1954, to acknowledge what God has done in raising up America as a freedom loving nation and a beacon to oppressed people from around the world.

Yes, we have had our dark moments, such as that shadow cast upon our nation by the institution of slavery. That is a sign of our human weaknesses; while still serving under our omnipotent God. Being a Christian nation, we eventually drove that institution of darkness, slavery followed by segregation -- out of our American society.

But, unfortunately, in 1963, our Supreme Court also evicted God from much of America. In 1963, the Supreme Court held hands with the ACLU in evicting God from our schools -- and progressively, systematically, the ACLU has been working to evict God and the Ten Commandments from all aspects of the American society.

Maybe, if our Pledge of Allegiance had included God back in 1892 -- the Supreme Court emboldened ACLU attacks upon our Christian heritage and God would not be occurring.

Continue to pray for our nation, for our Christian American society, and for our American leaders. But, remember all of this when you vote in November.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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B beternUOld Faithful
Here is HOW our "national leaders in Congress" were led to add 'under God' to the pledge of allegiance.

"The efforts to bring God into the state reached their peak during the so-called 'religious revival' of the 1950s. It was a time when Norman Vincent Peale grafted religion onto the era's feel-good consumerism in his best-selling The Power of Positive Thinking; when Billy Graham rose to fame as a Red-baiter who warned that Americans would perish in a nuclear holocaust unless they embraced Jesus Christ; when Secretary of State John Foster Dulles believed that the United States should oppose communism not because the Soviet Union was a totalitarian regime but because its leaders were atheists.

Hand in hand with the Red Scare, to which it was inextricably linked, the new religiosity overran Washington. Politicians outbid one another to prove their piety. President Eisenhower inaugurated that Washington staple: the prayer breakfast. Congress created a prayer room in the Capitol. In 1955, with Ike's support, Congress added the words 'In God We Trust' on all paper money. In 1956 it made the same four words the nation's official motto, replacing 'E Pluribus Unum.' Legislators introduced Constitutional amendments to state that Americans obeyed 'the authority and law of Jesus Christ.'[Sounder heads prevailed and these bogus theocratic pronouncements never made it very far.]

The campaign to add 'under God' to the Pledge of Allegiance was part of this movement. It's unclear precisely where the idea originated, but one driving force was the Catholic fraternal society the Knights of Columbus. In the early '50s the Knights themselves adopted the God-infused pledge for use in their own meetings, and members bombarded Congress with calls for the United States to do the same. Other fraternal, religious, and veterans clubs backed the idea. In April 1953, Rep. Louis Rabaut, D-Mich., formally proposed the alteration of the pledge in a bill he introduced to Congress.

The 'under God' movement didn't take off, however, until the next year, when it was endorsed by the Rev. George M. Docherty, the pastor of the Presbyterian church in Washington that Eisenhower attended. In February 1954, Docherty gave a sermon—with the president in the pew before him—arguing that apart from 'the United States of America,' the pledge 'could be the pledge of any country.' He added, 'I could hear little Moscovites [sic] repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag with equal solemnity.' Perhaps forgetting that 'liberty and justice for all' was not the norm in Moscow, Docherty urged the inclusion of 'under God' in the pledge to denote what he felt was special about the United States.[i.e. not so much to state what we are as much as to state that we ain't like those godless commies]

The ensuing congressional speechifying—debate would be a misnomer, given the near-unanimity of opinion—offered more proof that the point of the bill was to promote religion. The legislative history of the 1954 act stated that the hope was to "acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon … the Creator … [and] deny the atheistic and materialistic concept of communism. In signing the bill on June 14, 1954, Flag Day, Eisenhower delighted in the fact that from then on, 'millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town … the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.' The Cold War and the "red scare" had a lot more to do with it than the inherent religious sensitivity of our politicians."

Here is the full link from which the above was taken: http://www.slate.com/id/2067499
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
We're dumbing down our yoot when we tell them the USA was founded on Christian principles.
It was certainly not.

Hi Deep,

Have you ever watched the Jay Leno Show when he does the segment called Jay Walking? He goes on the streets in Hollywood and other Southern Cal cities -- and asked people questions which a third grade child should be able to answer. But, sadly, very few people can answer the simple questions he puts to them.

During the last presidential election -- a news reporter was shown interviewing people after they had voted. Many said they voted for Obama -- but, then could not answer simple questions about America, names of people in office -- names any third grader could answer. But, these zombies who voted for Obama hardly knew the name of our country.

This is sad -- when folks born in other countries know more about our American History and our American Government -- than native born Americans.

And, we can lay it all at the feet of the NEA and our Dept of Public Education. Americans are most certainly being dumbed down.

Why? Most likely to make them easier to lead by the nose. Remember the old saying: "A people who forget their past (or never knew it) -- will soon lose their future."

I watched a great show today on PBS. It was a reenactment of the pre-revolution meeting of the Virginia Legislators in Richmond -- when Patrick Henry gave his famous "Give me liberty or give me death" speech.

Did you know they opened their meetings with prayer?

And, in those days, all meetings of civil leaders -- was opened with prayer. And, do you know that our Supreme Court (as liberal as it is or will soon be) has the Ten Commandments posted? Not too shabby for a nation which you say was not founded as a Christian nation.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
Bill, I think its hilarious that one of the biggest advocates of NOT teaching our children basic science, you are asking if they are being dumbed down.

Hi TCF,

Quite the contrary, I want to see our young people taught more science. America has been falling behind in the fields of science compared to a number of other countries. However, I want to see our young people taught good science.

When it come to fairy tale science such as Darwinian Evolution -- I see no benefit in this. But, I do not say they should not teach it.

I believe that students should be taught both evolution and creation -- and allow them to decide which to believe.

You will find that most Conservative Christians are in favor of this approach. It is the atheists who wet their pants whenever this is suggested. You see, the atheists know that most students are intelligent enough to see through Darwinian Evolution when it is allowed to stand in comparison with creation.

But, as I said, America needs to put much more emphasis on both mathematics and science in our schools.

I have spent my life in the computer field -- starting back in the days when computers were built of vacuum tubes. I realize that many of my Forum Friends will have no idea what that is -- but, just ask your grandfather or grandmother.

I worked in the computer field starting in vacuum tubes, then transistors, then integrated circuits -- and on into the more advanced large scale ICs, custom ICs -- and such.

I helped put together the Reentry Flight Simulator at Boeing which was designed to train the first astronauts for reentry; I designed and built a Stimulus/Response computer system for Stanford Research; I designed the first interface for the initial Atari computer gaming system; I have taught Microcomputer Seminars for hundreds of engineers.

And, I installed the antennae computer onboard the USNS Kingsport which tracked and controlled the Syncom Satellite. This was the first satellite designed to relay telephone transmission. When it was working, President Kennedy was the inaugural user -- speaking to the leader of another nation via that satellite connection.

So, science is not my enemy; it has always been my friend. While I have spent my life in the field of computer science; it was only when I was fifty that I became a Christian believer and began to balance the two. And, I thank God that a part of His creation was the different fields of science and the laws He created to define and control the many different fields of science. He did a fantastic job of designing the heavens and the earth -- and all the sciences which make them function; don't you agree?

No, science is not my enemy. The difference between folks like me and the atheists -- is that science is a tool, it is not our god.

TCF, thank you for asking.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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thenagelthenagelPost Master
Translation:

I'm really old.
once in my life, i did somethign significant, so i need to keep referign to it as often as i can manage.
what was the name of the boat again? oh yeah.
that boat proves that i'm right, that god is how i say he is cause i read the bible 12 hours a day so of course i know what it means better than anyone.
should i say soething like " god created darwin, not he other way around"? no. that might imply darwin was a creature of god the same as me, and of course i'm better and more right that darwin.

wait. what was i talking about? oh well. not important. better put up a profound cartoon to make me look clever.
semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
Translation:

I'm really old.
once in my life, i did somethign significant, so i need to keep referign to it as often as i can manage.
what was the name of the boat again? oh yeah.
that boat proves that i'm right, that god is how i say he is cause i read the bible 12 hours a day so of course i know what it means better than anyone.
should i say soething like " god created darwin, not he other way around"? no. that might imply darwin was a creature of god the same as me, and of course i'm better and more right that darwin.

wait. what was i talking about? oh well. not important. better put up a profound cartoon to make me look clever.


semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
I believe that students should be taught both evolution and creation -- and allow them to decide which to believe.

I have spent my life in the computer field -- starting back in the days when computers were built of vacuum tubes.

I worked in the computer field starting in vacuum tubes, then transistors, then integrated circuits -- and on into the more advanced large scale ICs, custom ICs -- and such.

I helped put together the Reentry Flight Simulator at Boeing which was designed to train the first astronauts for reentry; I designed and built a Stimulus/Response computer system for Stanford Research; I designed the first interface for the initial Atari computer gaming system; I have taught Microcomputer Seminars for hundreds of engineers.

And, I installed the antennae computer onboard the USNS Kingsport which tracked and controlled the Syncom Satellite. This was the first satellite designed to relay telephone transmission.
Bill


You believe students should be taught both evolution and creation? And then when they do make a choice & not the choice you wanted, you slam them for it?

As to your "I did this" "I did that"...kind of tootin your own horn & bragging, aren't you, Billy? I kinda think the bible says something against that. No matter the reason, you did.
Of course, you'll come up with a scripture when it's ok to brag. Roll Eyes
SK Sofa KingHall of Famer
quote:
The following is a transcript of that portion of the show which really caught my attention -- 25% of Americans polled (40% of those 19-29 years old) -- DID NOT know who American fought to win our Independence.



Amazing. Did you also know that about the same percentage eschew science in favor of their particular religion's Creation myth?

I imagine it's the same stupid group of kids in either poll.
Road PuppyRoad PuppyOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Soo the mentality here is: no one is impressed with Bro. Bill’s credentials.

That explains the depth of mentality exhibited by his critics. Real shallow.


"My cat's breath smells like cat food...." Big Grin


I can sum up the biggest contributor to the dumbing down of America's youth in two sentences.

"Mupta po mo gub bidda be dat tum, yo. Muhfugen BIX N00D!
Cof bin dub ho, muhfuggah."

Stupid on purpose.
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
i believe that all major religions should be taught, in a class on religion. I believe evolution should be taught in science class. creationism should NOT be taught as science and evolution should not be taught as religion.


tcf, well-said. I agree with you. Your idea seems almost obvious to a thinking mind, doesn't it?

But I don't see it happening anytime soon. Many parents don't want their kids exposed to religious thoughts other than their own. Why, the wee tykes might get ideas.

The Hindus teach that the Earth is suspended on the back of a huge turtle. Hmm... Giant freaking space turtle, or Genesis? I know some kids who are going with the space turtle.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
i believe that all major religions should be taught, in a class on religion. I believe evolution should be taught in science class. creationism should NOT be taught as science and evolution should not be taught as religion.

Hi TCF,

Actually, Darwinian Evolution is a form of religion. It is the glue that atheists use in their attempt to hold their religion together.

So, why are you afraid to have them taught together?

You are using the same level of argument Jackie Robinson broke through in sports -- "Oh, everyone knows they are different and should play on different fields."

Yet, look what happened when black athletes were allowed to compete on the same field. Are you afraid the same will happen to your Evolution religion if it has to stand side by side with Creation?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
i believe that all major religions should be taught, in a class on religion. I believe evolution should be taught in science class. creationism should NOT be taught as science and evolution should not be taught as religion.

Hi TCF,

Actually, Darwinian Evolution is a form of religion. It is the glue that atheists use in their attempt to hold their religion together.

So, why are you afraid to have them taught together?

You are using the same level of argument Jackie Robinson broke through in sports -- "Oh, everyone knows they are different and should play on different fields."

Yet, look what happened when black athletes were allowed to compete on the same field. Are you afraid the same will happen to your Evolution religion if it has to stand side by side with Creation?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill


Bill are you now an authority on Evolution? Do you believe in Evolution? You have told me in more than one post that unless you believe in something that you can not be trusted to comment or be believed on that subject.

Evolution is not a religion. That is like saying that the laws of gravity are religious.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
quote:
Originally posted by tcf531:
i believe that all major religions should be taught, in a class on religion. I believe evolution should be taught in science class. creationism should NOT be taught as science and evolution should not be taught as religion.

Hi TCF,

Actually, Darwinian Evolution is a form of religion. It is the glue that atheists use in their attempt to hold their religion together.

So, why are you afraid to have them taught together?

You are using the same level of argument Jackie Robinson broke through in sports -- "Oh, everyone knows they are different and should play on different fields."

Yet, look what happened when black athletes were allowed to compete on the same field. Are you afraid the same will happen to your Evolution religion if it has to stand side by side with Creation?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Evolution is not a religion. That is like saying that the laws of gravity are religious.

Hi Jan,

No, God created gravity. Satan created evolution.

Evolution, being a belief system, is a religion.

You do BELIEVE in Evolution -- don't you?

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Hi all,

Isn't it funny how loud the "big dog" yelps when someone bites him?

Sorry, my Friend, but the Supreme Court ruled that atheism is a religion. And, we just have to assume this includes all its offshoots, such as evolution.

I know. I am no fun to play with!

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill


The supreme court also upholds roe v wade. Do you agree with that too?

Regardless that does not make evolution a religion.

You're nuts.
thenagelthenagelPost Master
they have to get bigger, because he relizes he gets more and more out of his depth with every post he makes.

he hasn't realized yet what a shameful excuse as a ' representetive' of gods word he is.

if the democrats had someple like bill gray cheering for them, the republicans would hire him in a heart beat and let him make any commercials and ads that he wanted to, because nothing would drive people to the other party faster.

not even the CIA and the KGB were ever as good at disinformation and half truths and out and out lies than a Fundy, and bill is one of the best.

the pathetic and sad part is that bill really believe in his rightiousness.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
I have no idea what Gray believes in. If he told me, I wouldn't believe him.

Deep, my Friend,

We have been dialoguing for over three years -- and you have no idea what I believe? I did not realize the smog in Hollywood is that bad -- that it affects your ability to remember past yesterday.

Let me refresh your memory. You believe in NOTHING, or I should say, the religion of NOTHING -- and I believe in God. Does this ring a bell yet?

But, stay with it Deep, my Friend, for you have given me many good platforms from which to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Keep that up and God may have to give you a special reward for being so helpful.

When are you going to drive down from Hollywood and visit our church? I keep inviting you; but, you always seem to have something else to do. Remember, the invite is always open -- from me and from God.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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semiannualchicksemiannualchickOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
Translation:

Oh.. wow. after all this time the deepfatfish guy doesn't know what i'm saying.
man, i'm going to have to post even more so he can finally understand that i'm the top stud in Christ's stable.

i better start a whole new thread for this one.


There's your title for your new thread.
"Top Stud in Christ's Stable".
I say go for it, it should be interesting. Big Grin
CageTheElephantCageTheElephantPost Master
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
Translation:

Oh.. wow. after all this time the deepfatfish guy doesn't know what i'm saying.
man, i'm going to have to post even more so he can finally understand that i'm the top stud in Christ's stable.

i better start a whole new thread for this one.

quote:
Then Sez the Chick:
There's your title for your new thread.
"Top Stud in Christ's Stable".
I say go for it, it should be interesting.


AH!!!! They said "Stud"!....On a religious thread! Eeker
Equus ferus caballus sexual overtones???

Legalize Marijuana.
SK Sofa KingHall of Famer
quote:
Actually, Darwinian Evolution is a form of religion. It is the glue that atheists use in their attempt to hold their religion together.



Such incredible stupidity! Francis Collins currently service as director of the National Institutes of Health. He is one of the most devout people I know. I large percentage of my cohorts are scientists who accept the FACT of evolution and believers.

Just because you are too stupid or deluded to grasp the signature of God Himself in the coded genes of your genetic makeup doesn't mean the rest of us believers are.
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Road Puppy:
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Soo the mentality here is: no one is impressed with Bro. Bill’s credentials.

That explains the depth of mentality exhibited by his critics. Real shallow.


"My cat's breath smells like cat food...." Big Grin


I can sum up the biggest contributor to the dumbing down of America's youth in two sentences.

"Mupta po mo gub bidda be dat tum, yo. Muhfugen BIX N00D!
Cof bin dub ho, muhfuggah."

Stupid on purpose.


Big Grin Big Grin
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Sofa King:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
Actually, Darwinian Evolution is a form of religion. It is the glue that atheists use in their attempt to hold their religion together.

Such incredible stupidity! Francis Collins currently service as director of the National Institutes of Health. He is one of the most devout people I know. I large percentage of my cohorts are scientists who accept the FACT of evolution and believers.

Just because you are too stupid or deluded to grasp the signature of God Himself in the coded genes of your genetic makeup doesn't mean the rest of us believers are.

Gee, Sofa,

I apologize! I really didn't mean to get you so upset that you just ramble on, mumbling to yourself.

As hard as it is to accept -- yes, atheism, including its step-children, i.e., Darwinian Evolution, etc. -- is a religion, a belief system. So spoke the Supreme Court.

Y'all come back now, ya heah!

Bill

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Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
To the honest readers of this thread and forum:

I apologize. I let a troll get under my skin and responded inappropriately.

I know, I know, I should be big. His behavior is a reflection on him, not me. I know all that adult stuff, but it is frustrating to be lied about and to constantly, as though repeating the lie often enough will make it true.

And, yes, I violated the First Rule of Fora: Don't Feed The Trolls.

Sorry about that.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
To the honest readers of this thread and forum:

I apologize. I let a troll get under my skin and responded inappropriately.

I know, I know, I should be big. His behavior is a reflection on him, not me. I know all that adult stuff, but it is frustrating to be lied about and to constantly, as though repeating the lie often enough will make it true.

And, yes, I violated the First Rule of Fora: Don't Feed The Trolls.

Sorry about that.

Hi Deep,

Not sure about the rest of our Forum Friends, but, you have me confused. This reminds me of a dear lady I once knew. She would start a train of thought -- say something -- and then stop.

After maybe a hour, several hours, or more -- she would continue discussing that train of thought again. I would have to look at her and wonder who got off the train.

Your comments here leave me with the same feeling.

Just curious. Have you been talking with the mirror again?

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

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