Originally Posted by CrustyMac:
Originally Posted by Unobtanium:

Ya know, 5000 babies have died just in the last hour.  Starvation, accidents, abuse, you name it. They generally died horribly.

 

If Jesus is so concerned about kids, why does he let that happen?


___________

Those are just the ones that are born.  God ends 15-20% of all known pregnancies, and no telling how many he chooses to end before the mother is aware that she is pregnant.

 

 

Studies have shown about half the fertilized eggs do not attach to the uterine wall, or if they do, they are lost in the monthly cycle.

 

I really have no idea how Muslims feel about birth control. Most starving African children are born to Muslim parents. That doesn't mean that many of the "kids" I know practice birth control. It has nothing to do with religion; they're just too "bright" to realize they need to.

I don't know why christians want to talk the talk but balk when it comes to actually walking the walk. Here we have ohno presuming to know who does or does not give to charities. I will admit to being very cautious about which charities we support. Like most everyone we try to help all legitimate organizations. St. Judes and UCP are the major two that we have supported for years. It's not me but the churches you christians love so much that has the BILLIONS of dollars on hand that could do some good in this world if they really wanted to.

Best,

 

At his peak, Jimmy Bakker had gold bathroom fixtures and air-conditioned dog houses.  How many starving Children in Africa, South America, Asia, and on Indian Reservations here in the US could those extravagances have helped?

 

But what if he had donated every dollar above what he needed for a modest existence?  Would it have made a substantial difference?

 

No.

 

The problem is much more complicated than that.  The problem of dying kids in Third World Countries is a matter of superstition, culture, tribalism, bad traditions, suspicion, poor sanitation regarding water and wastewater,poverty, misogyny, tyranny, theocracy, and other ailments of the human condition.  It is not our position to enforce enlightenment onto anyone.  We are privileged to offer it, but that's where it should end.

 

The Bush Doctrine of imposing democracy and capitalism onto peoples who actively reject it is asinine.  Yet, it endures.

 

Go figure.

 

DF

 

"But what if he had donated every dollar above what he needed for a modest existence?  Would it have made a substantial difference?" [deep]

 

NS that is a very good question. i wonder if you really understand what you asked?

 

Ns, if you will engage yourself in the study of ideas other than a disposition for God you will not find yourself left behind so often.

I know it has been the argument of atheism that religion is responsible for world problems. You are looking at pieces of a problem when current science is that of a holistic view.

Religion is not the problem it is a self medication which results from a lack of a world view and necessary dialog . When the necessary dialog is not present between societies the result is to seek some thing that fulfills and gives a society some reason to go on in adverse conditions.

I’m not making a list of these conditions but poverty is high on the list and that is not produced by religion or a belief in God.

I’m not sure what part of a holistic view I’m prepared to participate in myself. I do know there is a necessity for it on a serious level.

NSNS, I'll have to look for the link but according to one source 30 billion a year would wipe out world hunger. The problem of hunger in the world has been going on long before Bush was born, same with the problem of the US pushing in where it shouldn't be. Vietnam is one example of that and it was the democrat's war. And let us not forget clinton's "wag the dog" war. But this isn't politics so I'll stop for now.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

According to the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), it would only take $30 billion a year to launch the necessary agricultural programs to completely solve global food insecurity. Severe hunger afflicts 862 million people each year, could $30 billion save them?

 

 

Sorry, no cigar!  A 2006 fairy tale from a loony UN hack? The fact that it comes from the U.N. should have alerted you...

Back to the chalkboard, Einstein.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Well gee ellie, since you have ALL the answers why don't you share? Surely one of your personas could have contributed something worthwhile after all this time.

 

 

Talking to you is like talking to a rock...only the rock has a possibility of being polished at some time. You will always be a rube.

Ellie, when have you ever tried to "talk" to me or anyone else on these forums? You keep trying to get my attention anyway you can but your problem is you don't like what I "say" to you when you do get a response. It's actually funny to be called a rube by you. If you've ever had an original or witty thought creep into that simple mind of yours it died of loneliness before you could get it out. You're just low hanging fruit.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Ellie, when have you ever tried to "talk" to me or anyone else on these forums? You keep trying to get my attention anyway you can but your problem is you don't like what I "say" to you when you do get a response. It's actually funny to be called a rube by you. If you've ever had an original or witty thought creep into that simple mind of yours it died of loneliness before you could get it out. You're just low hanging fruit.

 Fail. Simpleton.

Your ignorance is amusing.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

You know ellie, you could be considered a dangerous weapon because I believe you could actually bore someone to death. SSDD with you, you're a one trick pony.

 

Be careful you don't overload that small brain struggling to try and find snappy quotes online.

No matter how you deliver them, you are still exposed as the total ignoranus that you are.

Remember, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear...Oinker.

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

$30B is a lot of money.  Why, it's what we spend in Afghanistan imposing democracy onto savages for what?  A week or two?

 

Our priorities are misplaced, that's for sure.

 

DF

See there DeepFat pseudo-speciation of people is not that hard now is it?

I consider atheists less-than-human.

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

According to the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), it would only take $30 billion a year to launch the necessary agricultural programs to completely solve global food insecurity.

 

----

 

Best,

 

I believe that to be a fallacious argument.  You do not control world hunger by feeding more people which is why I do not (and never will) support any of those hunger programs I see on TV.  You control world hunger by birth control and education.

Nature has a really cool way of shutting down the reproductive system of a woman who is very hungry.  Feed all of those who are very hungry and you wake up the reproductive system resulting in more mouths to feed.  At best, the scenario you cited would feed a few for a few years then the horrible cycle would ramp-up again with even more deaths.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

According to the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), it would only take $30 billion a year to launch the necessary agricultural programs to completely solve global food insecurity.

 

----

 

Best,

 

I believe that to be a fallacious argument.  You do not control world hunger by feeding more people which is why I do not (and never will) support any of those hunger programs I see on TV.  You control world hunger by birth control and education.

Nature has a really cool way of shutting down the reproductive system of a woman who is very hungry.  Feed all of those who are very hungry and you wake up the reproductive system resulting in more mouths to feed.  At best, the scenario you cited would feed a few for a few years then the horrible cycle would ramp-up again with even more deaths.

 

 

I agree and disagree. I think it will take a joint effort. Birth control and education is a very important part of the puzzle, but you have to be able to hold your head up and not be so weak you can't walk to be able to learn. Teaching a village to be self sufficient and starting a sound agricultural program is the first step. Religion once again plays a huge role in the birth control issue. Until they are educated and can see beyond the archaic ideals of religion you will never be able to get them to use effective birth control.

 

I can't imagine that 30 billion would not be worth the effort to stop world hunger. Yes those that benefited from eating on a daily basis would be healthier and would probably reproduce. We are no where near a crisis when it comes to over population. Why not teach them and assist them in growing and producing their own foods and let them decide how many children they want to have? Once they have overcome hunger they could very well be capable of taking care of their own at that point.

 

When you are hungry, nothing else matters. When you have food, then you can began to think about other things and learn and grow in different directions.

Starvation so far hasn't stopped reproduction and I would be the first one to say give them birth control. I wonder myself how they keep having babies when they're all so malnourished, and if they have a clue about birth control, which you'd think surely they would, why do they keep having those babies just to watch them starve.

The people most likely to see their children starve to death are those who are encouraged, at the pain of Hell, to reproduce.  They are the ones who the Catholic missionaries tell that condoms increase AIDS.  As Mother Theresa called them, they are "poorest or the poor".  And she liked them that way.  In that way, she and the Catholic Church can manipulate them to create life that is bound to suffer.  Suffering is of little consequence to Christians.  It's almost a sacrament.  Perhaps it's precisely  a sacrament.

In any case, it's cruel and mean and deliberate and consummately Christian.

 

DF

As Mother Theresa called them, they are "poorest or the poor".  And she liked them that way.  In that way, she and the Catholic Church can manipulate them to create life that is bound to suffer.  Suffering is of little consequence to Christians.  It's almost a sacrament.  Perhaps it's precisely  a sacrament.

In any case, it's cruel and mean and deliberate and consummately Christian.

 

Glad you approve. Really, could you try to paint religion any worse than you do?

If hunger and poverty could be cured by throwing money at the problem, it would have been solved long ago.  If it were just about growing enough food, hunger could have been cured with the onset of the industrial revolution. 

 

Fundamental changes in a multitude of systems, organizations, and governments will be required to solve these problems.  Basic ideologies will have to undergo radical change. 

quote:    Originally Posted by Deep Not Shallow Not Slim:

The people most likely to see their children starve to death are those who are encouraged, at the pain of Hell, to reproduce.  They are the ones who the Catholic missionaries tell that condoms increase AIDS.  As Mother Theresa called them, they are "poorest or the poor".  And she liked them that way.  In that way, she and the Catholic Church can manipulate them to create life that is bound to suffer.  Suffering is of little consequence to Christians.  It's almost a sacrament.  Perhaps it's precisely  a sacrament.  In any case, it's cruel and mean and deliberate and consummately Christian.  DF


Hi Deep,


No, my Friend, this is your extremely weak argument in favor of "murder by abortion" -- and our discussions on abortion have to do  with places like California, New York, and other major U.S. cities where Murder, Inc, i.e., "Planned Parenthood" runs amok.  Not in countries where people are starving to death such as on the African continent.  

Actually, if the U.S. government would stop giving money to Planned Parenthood -- and put those millions to work feeding people in  poor countries -- that would be a much better use of our funds.  And, that will save lives instead of taking lives.

So, no, it is not the reproducing that bothers us near as much as it is the killing of the babies BEFORE they even have a chance to  experience life.

Therefore, Deep, my Friend -- you live as "gaily" as you like -- but, please do not expect us to condone nor approve of that or of the "murder by abortion" you advocate.

God bless,  have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Birth control is not abortion bill. As far as spending money on the needy, if the churches actually did that instead of buying property, building monster churches and all the other bells and whistles that you all love so much some good might actually be done. Some life those babies get to experience bill. Would you like for your children or grandchildren to have that same life??

 hunger

 

Originally Posted by b50m:

As Mother Theresa called them, they are "poorest or the poor".  And she liked them that way.  In that way, she and the Catholic Church can manipulate them to create life that is bound to suffer.  Suffering is of little consequence to Christians.  It's almost a sacrament.  Perhaps it's precisely  a sacrament.

In any case, it's cruel and mean and deliberate and consummately Christian.

 

Glad you approve. Really, could you try to paint religion any worse than you do?

I could.  But I keep certain things in reserve.

 

DF

Originally Posted by Bestworking:

Birth control is not abortion bill. As far as spending money on the needy, if the churches actually did that instead of buying property, building monster churches and all the other bells and whistles that you all love so much some good might actually be done. Some life those babies get to experience bill. Would you like for your children or grandchildren to have that same life??

 hunger

 

Best, I recently submitted a bid to build a Catholic Church.  Magnificent building, I'll admit, but unnecessarily expensive.  It's almost as though the architect asked herself: How can I make this 25,000 SF building more expensive?  Seriously.

 

On a square foot basis, it was easily four times the norm for commercial construction.  To whose glory is this edifice being built?  God's, or the parishioners of a wealthy community in SoCal?  Certainly not meek Jesus.  From what I understand of the Jesus myth, the Nazarene carpenter would be embarrassed that this display of conspicuous consumption was being built in his name, while people within 10 miles are starving.

 

I often consider that atheists are better christians than Christians.  I'm becoming convinced of it.

 

DF

You see who got the "lion's share" and who knows how much more they took in that isn't known.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

2010 Contributions By Type of Recipient Organization
  
  Religion  $100.63 billion
  Education  $41.67 billion
  Gifts to Foundations*  $33 billion
  Human Services  $26.49 billion
  Public-Society Benefit  $24.24 billion
  Health  $22.83 billion
  International Affairs  $15.77 billion
  Arts, Culture & Humanities  $13.28 billion
  Environment & Animals  $6.66 billion
  Foundation Grants to Individuals  $4.20 billion
  Unallocated  $2.12 billion

*Estimate developed jointly by Foundation Center and Giving USA

Giving USA also surveyed charitable organizations to find out how gifts changed from the previous year.

Among the report findings:

  • Faith-based charities, including churches, received the most charitable gifts in 2010, capturing $100.63 billion – 35 percent of total contributions in 2010. Religious groups received more than a third of all contributions in the U.S. Faith-based donations increased 0.8 percent from the previous year.
  • Charitable giving to colleges, universities and educational organizations accounted for the second largest share of all charitable giving at 14 percent. Educational institutions and organizations received $41.67 billion in gifts. Charitable giving to the education subsector increased by an estimated 5.2 percent in 2010. This follows a drop of 5.6 percent in 2009.

http://www.nps.gov/partnership...duals_statistics.htm

Originally Posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:

The people most likely to see their children starve to death are those who are encouraged, at the pain of Hell, to reproduce.  They are the ones who the Catholic missionaries tell that condoms increase AIDS.  As Mother Theresa called them, they are "poorest or the poor".  And she liked them that way.  In that way, she and the Catholic Church can manipulate them to create life that is bound to suffer.  Suffering is of little consequence to Christians.  It's almost a sacrament.  Perhaps it's precisely  a sacrament.

In any case, it's cruel and mean and deliberate and consummately Christian.

 

DF

#######################################################################

 

The above comment is absolute filth!!!!!!

 

Mother Teresa started with a school in the slums to teach the children of the poor. She also learned basic medicine and went into the homes of the sick to treat them. In 1949, some of her former pupils joined her. They found men, women, and children dying on the streets who were rejected by local hospitals. The group rented a room so they could care for helpless people otherwise condemned to die in the gutter.


Atheism promotes starvation by constantly insisting scientific chasing of their tail to disprove God.

The LHC is one example. The money spent on misplaced priorities such as the LHC could save the lives of millions of potential scientists who are starving everyday. The knowledge base is being starved to death by atheism. Atheist primates are less-than-human and should be avoided at all costs. Do not let them destroy your children. NSNS is your childrens enemy.

Originally Posted by House of David:
Mother Teresa started with a school in the slums to teach the children of the poor. She also learned basic medicine and went into the homes of the sick to treat them. In 1949, some of her former pupils joined her. They found men, women, and children dying on the streets who were rejected by local hospitals. The group rented a room so they could care for helpless people otherwise condemned to die in the gutter.

-------

 

 

Ummm, you do know that Mother Teresa was almost as much of an atheist as I am, right?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...ws/main3199062.shtml 

 

Our side calls her the Patron Saint of Atheism.  

 

Originally Posted by Unobtanium:
Originally Posted by House of David:
Mother Teresa started with a school in the slums to teach the children of the poor. She also learned basic medicine and went into the homes of the sick to treat them. In 1949, some of her former pupils joined her. They found men, women, and children dying on the streets who were rejected by local hospitals. The group rented a room so they could care for helpless people otherwise condemned to die in the gutter.

-------

 

 

Ummm, you do know that Mother Teresa was almost as much of an atheist as I am, right?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...ws/main3199062.shtml 

 

Our side calls her the Patron Saint of Atheism.  

 

*****************************************************************************************************************

She was NOT an atheist.  She experienced the dark night of the soul for a very long time.

There is a HUGE difference between the "dark night of the soul" and atheism!

Yeah, according to you atheists, not believing makes you HAPPY and believing makes miserable, living your life under threat of Hell. According to you, believing scares the little children, and atheism makes them all HAPPY.

 

So, if Mother Teresa was an ATHEIST, why does she sound so troubled? Why does it sound like she so DESPERATELY wants God in her life, if as you keep insisting, becoming an atheist is like lifting a giant weight off your shoulders?

 

Could it be that GB, Bill, and I are right, and that her soul was seeking, the way all souls do? Even YOURS?

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