Arizona's Monstrosity Of A New Law - Really?

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:
We are not other countries.

Why are people not standing up for the Constitution on this issue? Where are the Tea Party members on this one.

I am a defender of the Constitution, nothing more nothing less.

Something does need to be done. But giving police the authority to stop me because I look like I am illegal is not it.

How about the state of AZ needs to stop allowing businesses to do business in their state if they are hiring illegals. Oh that wont happen because those business give big campaign contributions to the Repubs and Dems out there.

If companies were forced to stop hiring they would stop coming. A fire with no oxygen.......

What does the Constitution say about ignoring our laws? Nothing in the Arizona bill says you will or can be stopped because of your looks. Have you read the bill? Everyone is making a big deal out of something that's not even in the bill.

The Constitution is a limit on FEDERAL power...not States.

The real question is what does the AZ state constitution about probable cause, searches, etc...

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
What does the Constitution say about ignoring our laws? Nothing in the Arizona bill says you will or can be stopped because of your looks. Have you read the bill? Everyone is making a big deal out of something that's not even in the bill.

I think very few actually know what the bill say's. A lot are just taking their cue from what they see on TV and assuming rampant civil rights abuses by Arizona LEOs.

Every person in Arizona that looks Latino is going to be rounded up and put in a camp...gimmie a break. I wonder why a lot of people assume most Arizona cops are bad and most illegal immigrants are just poor hardworking people trying to improve their life...because that's all you see or hear about from the media. Cops are bad...illegal immigrants are good.

You're exactly right midnight. Even President Obama has jumped into the hype. Here is the bill for anyone that wants to read it.
http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/4...2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by midknightrider:

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
What does the Constitution say about ignoring our laws? Nothing in the Arizona bill says you will or can be stopped because of your looks. Have you read the bill? Everyone is making a big deal out of something that's not even in the bill.

I think very few actually know what the bill say's. A lot are just taking their cue from what they see on TV and assuming rampant civil rights abuses by Arizona LEOs.

Every person in Arizona that looks Latino is going to be rounded up and put in a camp...gimmie a break. I wonder why a lot of people assume most Arizona cops are bad and most illegal immigrants are just poor hardworking people trying to improve their life...because that's all you see or hear about from the media. Cops are bad...illegal immigrants are good.

A lot (about 42%) of law enforcement officers in Arizona "LOOK LIKE MEXICANS". All the protest regarding the Arizona law is over fear that other states will begin to adopt and enforce the law.

quote:

Originally posted by midknightrider:


I think very few actually know what the bill say's. A lot are just taking their cue from what they see on TV and assuming rampant civil rights abuses by Arizona LEOs.

That might be a fair statement if only Joe Blow citizens were saying things about it. When law enforcement leadership in AZ, AZ mayors, and the city council of some of AZ's cities speak out against it, well I would hope they have looked at it since they would have to enforce it. Lets not even mention some major Repub figures that have said that they are not sure it would hold up in court.

E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES


this is the most controversial paragraph, and the one that will probably make the whole bill null and void.

quote:

Originally posted by SHELDIVR:

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:

quote:

Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
This is like blaming the bank for having money instead of blaming the bank robber...these people are knowingly breaking the law and deserve to be treated accordingly. Those who are here legally have nothing to fear.

Companies that hire illegals are knowingly breaking the law also and deserve to be treated accordingly. We can't get to the root of this weed (problem) if we keep allowing companies to pour miracle grow (jobs) on it.

Flo, your comments are intended as a distraction to the actual topic under discussion. I agree that employers have a responsibility to NOT hire illegals, BUT the issue here is the structure and legality of the Arizona law. Protection against profiling and discrimination are crafted into the Arizona law. This is no different from Alabama State Troopers requiring your DL, proof of insurance and registration (ownership). Legals will have the appropriate information, illegals need to be arrested. I know individuals, living in Alabama, who are foreign citizens, that would not go to WAL MART without green card and papers (not Mexicans). It's only a big deal if you are illegal or trying to protect/shelter an illegal. I'll say it again, if millions of Chinese people poured over our borders illegally, we would call it an INVASION...being Mexican makes no difference they are ILLEGAL INVADERS. YES, go after the employers, but above all else GO after the illegals.

Since 1954, its been federal law that legal immigrants to the US must carry their green card or other ID showing their status, 24/7!

quote:

Originally posted by tcf531:
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES


this is the most controversial paragraph, and the one that will probably make the whole bill null and void.

What is controversial about that? You and I can be arrested at anytime without a warrant if an officer has probable cause. Why is everyone having a hard time accepting the fact that an "illegal" immigrant is breaking the law.

Apparently the tax-paying voters in Arizona, who will be most affected by this law, don't seem to think it's all that controversial... Approval of new law

I don't see anything new and it doesn't seem that "unreasonable" to me. But I'm sure it will be struck down by some court somewhere, after all people in California, Washington D.C. and New York certainly are smarter than the people in Arizona.

My theory: The farther one gets from the border, the more "controversial" this law gets. Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in this country, and politicians don't want to upset that voting block.

quote:

Originally posted by midknightrider:
Apparently the tax-paying voters in Arizona, who will be most affected by this law, don't seem to think it's all that controversial... Approval of new law

I don't see anything new and it doesn't seem that "unreasonable" to me. But I'm sure it will be struck down by some court somewhere, after all people in California, Washington D.C. and New York certainly are smarter than the people in Arizona.

My theory: The farther one gets from the border, the more "controversial" this law gets. Hispanics are the fastest growing minority in this country, and politicians don't want to upset that voting block.

Poll this, poll that. Polls mean nothing. I have never been polled. I was never polled in the Pre Election, mayoral election, or even the school board election but yet polls tell us what all Americans are thinking. Yeah right. Polls tell you about the specific people they asked. If I wanted a poll to show that left handed people were against something I could.

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:

quote:

Originally posted by tcf531:
E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES


this is the most controversial paragraph, and the one that will probably make the whole bill null and void.

What is controversial about that? You and I can be arrested at anytime without a warrant if an officer has probable cause. Why is everyone having a hard time accepting the fact that an "illegal" immigrant is breaking the law.

constitution of the united states, 4th ammendment:
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The key term being "unreasonable". If you've read the Arizona law police officers can not question anyone based on what they look like. There has to be contact for some other law enforcement reason before a persons citizenship status can be questioned. And only then can they be questioned if the officer has "probable cause". Thanks for posting this, it proves that the Arizona law is constitutional. If you or I are in any foreign country and have contact with law enforcement we would be asked for papers based on our looks or accent. It's not racist or profiling, it's common sense.

Let us go all the way back to English Common Law which has as one of its main tenets the presumption of free birth, analogous to modern citizenship. One could not be sequestered by another making claim upon their labor: it was up to the one making the claim of lordship to prove their allegation.

It is past time for the United States of America to stop this INVASION...this is not some friendly visit, this is an invasion by millions of people who have NO RIGHT to be here and they are a severe drain on our resources. Isn't it amazing we have controlled the border between North and South Korea for over 50 years but can't stop these Mexican invaders???

Most can show driver's license to prove basic id. If the person in question has a matricula card from the Mexican consulate, that is proforma proof the person in an illegal alien. Since 1954, federal law requires all legal aliens to carry proof of legal residence.

quote:

Originally posted by flotown79:
Poll this, poll that. Polls mean nothing. I have never been polled. I was never polled in the Pre Election, mayoral election, or even the school board election but yet polls tell us what all Americans are thinking. Yeah right. Polls tell you about the specific people they asked. If I wanted a poll to show that left handed people were against something I could.

Well...now that your stance on polls is clear, what about Arizona's SB1070 law do you deem "unreasonable"?

quote:

Originally posted by ferrellj:
The key term being "unreasonable". If you've read the Arizona law police officers can not question anyone based on what they look like. There has to be contact for some other law enforcement reason before a persons citizenship status can be questioned. And only then can they be questioned if the officer has "probable cause". Thanks for posting this, it proves that the Arizona law is constitutional. If you or I are in any foreign country and have contact with law enforcement we would be asked for papers based on our looks or accent. It's not racist or profiling, it's common sense.

What's considered "unreasonable" to nine Supreme Court justices in Washington D.C. and what's considered "unreasonable" to nine ranch owners on the border in Arizona are probably two different things.

I wonder whose opinion carries more weight?

quote:

Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
Isn't it amazing we have controlled the border between North and South Korea for over 50 years but can't stop these Mexican invaders???

Some politicians would build a bridge to Korea if they thought they could bring Koreans here to vote for them

How do you keep a party in power that believes in controlling the citizens through government entitlement programs? Allow an influx of people that live off of government entitlement programs, then give them the right to vote.

Right, State Senator Russell Pearce, before the 2008 Elections, sponsored an Employer Sanctions Law in Arizona. It was described at the time as, "the toughest anti illegal immigration law in the USA." IT HAS NEVER RESULTED IN A PROSECUTION.
Now, before the 2010 Elections, Russell Pearce has sponsored the immigration enforcement law that is being described as "the toughest anti illegal immigration law in the USA." State Senator Russell Pearce was, before he became a political hack for the GOP in Arizona, one of the Chief Deputies in Joe Arpaio's Maricopa County Sheriff's Department.

AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS LAWS VALUE TO THE STATE OF ARIZONA AND THE USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl Leuba:
Right, State Senator Russell Pearce, before the 2008 Elections, sponsored an Employer Sanctions Law in Arizona. It was described at the time as, "the toughest anti illegal immigration law in the USA." IT HAS NEVER RESULTED IN A PROSECUTION.
Now, before the 2010 Elections, Russell Pearce has sponsored the immigration enforcement law that is being described as "the toughest anti illegal immigration law in the USA." State Senator Russell Pearce was, before he became a political hack for the GOP in Arizona, one of the Chief Deputies in Joe Arpaio's Maricopa County Sheriff's Department.

AND YOU SEEM TO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS LAWS VALUE TO THE STATE OF ARIZONA AND THE USA.

And our dearly beloved Nazi Sheriff Joe Arpaio is regularly described, by Joe Arpaio, as "the toughest Sheriff in the USA."

quote:

Originally posted by Lets Go Jeepin':

quote:

Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
Isn't it amazing we have controlled the border between North and South Korea for over 50 years but can't stop these Mexican invaders???

Some politicians would build a bridge to Korea if they thought they could bring Koreans here to vote for them

How do you keep a party in power that believes in controlling the citizens through government entitlement programs? Allow an influx of people that live off of government entitlement programs, then give them the right to vote.

Hey fella, the ONLY President who ever gave ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP WAS Ronald Reagan. Undocumented, Illegal, immigrants can go to prison a very long time for VOTING. In fact, LEGAL IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE NOT YET NATURALIZED CAN TOO.

In Case you don't actually know this already, you must be a CITIZEN of the USA to vote in any election for government office. Voter Fraud is a felony. And, over a thousand allegations of Voter Fraud in New Mexico were investigated by the US Attorney's office during the BUSH years, THERE WERE ZERO PROSECUTIONS.

IF I WERE TO BELIEVE YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE SAYING WAS UNTRUE, I WOULD CALL YOU A LIAR, BUT AS IT IS I THINK YOU ARE JUST IGNORANT OF THE FACTS. Someone has been lying to you, and you have been taken in by their lies.

"n 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens. While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presiden­tial vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Cen sus Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida, and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.

Florida is not unique. Thousands of non-citizens are registered to vote in some states, and tens if not hundreds of thousands in total may be present on the voter rolls nationwide. These numbers are significant: Local elections are often decided by only a handful of votes, and even national elections have likely been within the margin of the number of non-citizens ille gally registered to vote."

http://www.thecuttingedgenews....ndex.php?article=691

quote:

U.S. citizens who go to the polls Nov. 2 to decide local, state and national elections are likely to get more help from noncitizens this year than ever before.

Beyond requiring applicants to sign a pledge on voter-registration forms affirming that they are U.S. citizens, there is no way to prevent the nation's estimated 8 million to 12 million illegal aliens from casting ballots in November, area elections officials said.

Locally, only Virginia requires voters to provide their Social Security numbers, but the state does not require voters to show their Social Security cards.

"There is no way of checking," said Maryland State Board of Elections Administrator Linda H. Lamone. "We have no way of doing that. We have no access to any information about who is in the United States legally or otherwise."

http://www.washingtontimes.com...040923-104542-8488r/

If there is no way to ascertain the citizenship or immigration status of an applicant, it is highly likely those illegals who do vote won't be caught.