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RE: http://www.timesdaily.com/arti...429/ARTICLES/4295001

Hi to my Forum Friends,

In his commentary, Arizona's Monstrosity Of A New Law, Dan K. Thomasson tells us, "Talk about hitting a mule in the head with a two by four just to get its attention! That's exactly what Arizona did to the Congress and the White House in passing an outrageous law to curtail illegal immigration that may be a nightmare to enforce. Obviously it was born out of the frustration at the federal failure to bring about reform and in enforcing laws already on the books."

And, it is about time someone applied the 2X4 Board of Education to the White House and Congress. Having 12 to 20 million illegal aliens living off the fat of the land is a bit much.

Then, he tells us, "Granted, there are an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants in Arizona, most of them up from the south and who resemble a large segment of its legal Hispanic population. So how does one determine who belongs there and who doesn't? By stopping them all. That's called racial profiling no matter claims to the contrary from the twit of a governor who signed the law and says singling out individuals on the basis of race won't be tolerated."

Very simple problem to prevent racial profiling as you call it. Simply enforce the laws which says that all employers MUST verify that ALL employees are not breaking the laws of America by being here illegally. The law against hiring illegal aliens should be strictly enforced.

Second, when someone breaks a law; whether it is a traffic violation, shoplifting, or rape -- check his/her identification. If he/she has phony identification or no legal identification -- give them a one way ride to Tijuana or the nearest border crossing.

There does not have to be any incidents of randomly stopping people to check their papers; but, on the other hand, when someone is stopped for another legal reason -- the police should not have their hands tied regarding checking for legal papers at this time.

Use common sense and most illegals will catch themselves.

Next, Mr. Thomasson tells us, "Are you nuts, Jan Brewer? How do you think this is going to work? Are your state and local cops going to spend most of their time hassling Anglos and Asians? Of course they aren't and everyone knows it including those who pushed this abomination through the state Legislature with the governor's blessing. One can only hope that the large number of lawsuits expected to challenge the law stop it before it does irreparable harm to the Arizona economy."

By the way, Mr. Thomasson, have they checked your papers lately? Is English your second language? Just checking, wondering why your Liberal Fangs are so sharp.

And, he tells us, "Ideally, this is such an extraordinarily and demonstrably corrupt exercise that it finally will move Congress to deal with the ever-growing immigration problem. Nearly a million men, women and children illegally cross our southwestern border seeking residence each year and the current national total is estimated at above 12 million. On the one hand their presence puts huge strains on government services and institutions including education and health care, police and fire while on the other they have provided a valuable force for manual labor that has been increasingly scarce."

God willing, you are right, that Congress will get off its collective butts and do something about the illegal aliens who continue to flow into America. Maybe we should follow the example of Mexico in the way they handle people from South America trying to cross their southern border. We see no Political Correctness there. You get caught sneaking across Mexico's southern border and you pay dearly.

Yet, Mexico's president cries and pouts when Americans demand we protect OUR southern borders. Can you guess why? Every year, Mexicans living illegally in America send $20 BILLION dollars back into Mexico's economy. Without this, how could Mexico's corrupt leaders continue to fatten their bank accounts?

And, Mr. Thomasson tells us, "A few years ago an often-heard joke was that expelling all the illegal immigrants and then installing a fence along the U.S. side of the border with Mexico to stop them from reentering wouldn't work because there wouldn't be anyone left to build it."

With America's unemployment at the highest it has been in many, many years -- I am sure that we could find many folks willing to work at building the fence. I have a good Friend in Arizona, professional, who has been unemployed for over two years. For construction job wages; I am positive he would be VERY happy to work on the fence. All we have to do is to get Mr. Obama off his butt and get the job started.

Mr. Thomasson tells us, "Every effort at reform has been shoved aside for political considerations. George W. Bush's reasonable proposals for bringing some order out of the chaos were thwarted by a coalition of Republicans and Democrats and now President Obama faces the same problems. The recently created Immigration and Custom Enforcement is as bad as the old one. The president angrily denounced the Arizona law as misguided. There certainly is no question about that and it probably is unconstitutional. Worse than that, it is not what this nation is all about."

Obama may be denouncing the Arizona law -- but, at least Arizona has done something. Mr. Obama sure cannot be accused of that; for over a year, he has done nothing!

Why is it unconstitutional for a state to enforce its immigration, or any other laws, which are on the books?

Next, Mr. Thomasson tells us, "The political ramifications during an election year are huge. Republicans have been subdued during the screams of anger growing since the action in a state they control. Democrats seemed prepared to push reform to take advantage of seething anger and fear among national Latinos. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid made reform a priority but concedes it will take bipartisan support and needs a lot of work. A whole lot of Arizonans should hope not too long."

Wow, Democrats are playing footsie with the Latinos. Is this news? The question should be: "How many of those Latinos who vote Democrat -- are legal and how many are illegal aliens?"

And, Mr. Thomasson tells us, "Meanwhile, it is reported that Gov. Brewer has ordered the state to set up training courses to teach law enforcement officers how to do their job without violating civil rights. What? The best way to accomplish this would have not been to sign the act in the first place, governor. Brewer's predecessor in the governorship, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano, vetoed similar legislation and other states with similar problems have decided such proposals, while tempting, aren't quite the American way."

Gee, Governor Brewer is not like Janet Napolitano. How many Arizonans are cheering because of this? It seems like only yesterday we were reading, "Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano . . . a report issued by her department said troops returning from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were at risk for being recruited by right-wing extremists."

And, a footnote in her report, "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment," said that while there is no specific information that domestic right-wing terrorists are planning acts of violence, such acts could come from unnamed "rightwing extremists" concerned about illegal immigration, abortion, increasing federal power and restrictions on firearms -- and singled out returning war veterans as susceptible to recruitment."

And, does anyone wonder if Arizona wants Janet back? Maybe she and Mr. Thomasson could get assigned as diplomats in the embassy in Kenya. They seem to have inside pull for that job.

Finally, Mr. Thomasson asks, "Will you be allowed to say 'no comprendi' in Arizona or is that a prima facie case for deportation?"

To Mr. Thomasson I say, "Si!" and "Adiós" -- see y'all in Kenya -- or Tijuana!

Dan K. Thomasson is the former editor of the Scripps Howard News Service. He can be reached at thomassondan@aol.com.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill Gray

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Floodgates have been opened.

Let's just round up Hispanics like the US did to Japanese Americans. Pres Regan signed legislation that said "government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".

In the case of illegals the failed leadership is at the state and fed level. Those politicians that are now pointing fingers at the fed can also blame themselves. How may business are allowed to continue with just a little slap on the wrist after being discovered that have illegals working?

BTW, can someone tell me what an illegal person looks like?

Could a Hispanic person, that is a US citizen, that is jogging with no id be arrested?

The states can activate the NG. Nothing is stopping that. The real problem is states want troops but they don't want to pay for the troops. You can't scream the fed gov spends too much and ask for funding at the same time.
Last edited by flotown79
Hi all,

For several years, I have tried to stay out of politics and concentrate on Christian and Christian Apologetics writings. But, once in a while, someone in the liberal news media just goes too far -- and, I have to stand up and say, "Not in my America!"

While I will be the first to agree that America is a nation built upon immigrants -- for the most part, those were "legal" immigrants. My wife is one of those legal immigrants who is, today, proudly an American citizen. Yet, we do have a major problem with illegal immigrants in America -- and this is causing our already burdened economy to strain at the seams. If every one of those illegal aliens were to go home and enter America through legal channels -- I would gladly extend my hand in friendship and tell them, "Welcome to America!" But, it does cause my grits to boil when I see large demonstrations of illegals marching in an American city -- demanding "their rights!"

They have no rights! They are here illegally. They are breaking the laws of our nation by being here illegally. What rights does a law breaker have -- except a bus ride back to the border crossing. And, then, America should bill Mexico for the bus fare.

If you feel that I am being too harsh; I am sorry. But, America has enough problems today without having to help support Mexico through its "run on across the border and send money home" policies.

Just my thoughts. Legal immigration made America great. Let's keep it that way!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Wow, well look, you've said a lot in your two posts...much makes sense and I agree we are a nation of law.

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
For several years, I have tried to stay out of politics and concentrate on Christian and Christian Apologetics writings. But, once in a while, someone in the liberal news media just goes too far -- and, I have to stand up and say, "Not in my America!"


I don't mean to offend...but really?

Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:16-17)



quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
But, it does cause my grits to boil when I see large demonstrations of illegals marching in an American city -- demanding "their rights!"

They have no rights! They are here illegally.


Once again...really?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I'm not saying throw open the flood gates and let everybody in...but we either believe that applies to all men or we don't...

Just my thoughts.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
Wow, well look, you've said a lot in your two posts...much makes sense and I agree we are a nation of law.

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
For several years, I have tried to stay out of politics and concentrate on Christian and Christian Apologetics writings. But, once in a while, someone in the liberal news media just goes too far -- and, I have to stand up and say, "Not in my America!"


I don't mean to offend...but really?

Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:16-17)



quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
But, it does cause my grits to boil when I see large demonstrations of illegals marching in an American city -- demanding "their rights!"

They have no rights! They are here illegally.


Once again...really?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I'm not saying throw open the flood gates and let everybody in...but we either believe that applies to all men or we don't...

Just my thoughts.


First of all the Do unto other part. Really? I am here legally and obey the law of the land. I expect others to do the same and they should be treated equally if they break said law of the land.

Second, John 3:16. Really? What in the world does God's plan for salvation have to do with illegal immigration?

Thirdly, all men created equal. Really? All men are created equal, but that doens't mean some are exempt from the law of the land and others aren't. By being over here illegally they are denying me of my unalienable rights, mainly my liberty.
You have one more option to curb illegal aliens and that is to fine the financial service companies that handle the remittances. Think about it: these companies that accept cash from illegal aliens are guilty of money laundering. If you look at the federal statutes money laundering is money derived from some form of specified unlawful activity.(18 usc 1956) Where did they get the money if they are not allowed to work here? It's time that the law is enforced against these companies (Western Union, American Express). Follow the money and watch these illegals self deport when they can't get a job and they can't send the money back.
Mr. Hooberbloob....You took the words right off of my page. The law of the land has nothing to do with the Bible.

I believe that everyone has rights as human beings but just as you cannot come into my house uninvited and stay for as long as you want, you are not allowed to come into our country illegally and stay for an unlimited or any period of time.
I cannot believe this is about to happen.

1st - let me point out, the ' all men are created equal' bit - that was written by Aamericans. It is 100% true. That was the document used to declare that we are no longer subjects but instead Americans.
the constitution protects the rights of Americans. these people aren't Americans. Let them follow the proper channels, fill out the paper work, pay the fees and take their oath, THEN they come under the protection of American documents.

2nd - (Prepare ye for the 8th sign of the Apocolypse.)

I Agree With Bill Grey.

The law that Arizona just passed is acctually only a minor re-write of a federal law that's been in place for years, but never enforced.
I've talked to 3 local people, all legal immigrants, and they are cheering for Arizona, and wish that we'd pass something similar in Alabama.
One suggestion I got was, "They makes those little tracking chips now. We need to put one in each illegal, so we can ctach them faster if they try to come back."
Another was "Put them on the first flight out of the USA, no matter where it's going. Let's see how Jesus and Ramon likes it in Abu Dhabi." (this was my fav)
The other suggestion I got was " Shoot them in the head, use their bodies for compost to fertlized the fields. In this way, was can save the manure because it is more valuable than these scum."
I have learned that the people who hate illegals the most are, in fact, the legal immigrants. They did it the right way, the hard way, they earned the right to call themselves American.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
Wow, well look, you've said a lot in your two posts...much makes sense and I agree we are a nation of law.

quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
For several years, I have tried to stay out of politics and concentrate on Christian and Christian Apologetics writings. But, once in a while, someone in the liberal news media just goes too far -- and, I have to stand up and say, "Not in my America!"


I don't mean to offend...but really?

Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." (Matthew 7:12)

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:16-17)



quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gray:
But, it does cause my grits to boil when I see large demonstrations of illegals marching in an American city -- demanding "their rights!"

They have no rights! They are here illegally.


Once again...really?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I'm not saying throw open the flood gates and let everybody in...but we either believe that applies to all men or we don't...

Just my thoughts.


First of all the Do unto other part. Really? I am here legally and obey the law of the land. I expect others to do the same and they should be treated equally if they break said law of the land.

Second, John 3:16. Really? What in the world does God's plan for salvation have to do with illegal immigration?

Thirdly, all men created equal. Really? All men are created equal, but that doens't mean some are exempt from the law of the land and others aren't. By being over here illegally they are denying me of my unalienable rights, mainly my liberty.


Well I was debating whether or not to reply...but it just strikes me...well I'm reluctant to say...I don't want to come off as pious or holier than thou...

But he made a point to mention God, etc.

I was trying to point out...non politically...that God's love and salvation are open to all that would accept.

Our Founders believed "these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator".

He posted..."they have no rights"

If you believe that God has truly endowed us with these rights...then as I posted...we believe its ALL men...or we don't.
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
1st - let me point out, the ' all men are created equal' bit - that was written by Aamericans. It is 100% true. That was the document used to declare that we are no longer subjects but instead Americans.
the constitution protects the rights of Americans. these people aren't Americans. Let them follow the proper channels, fill out the paper work, pay the fees and take their oath, THEN they come under the protection of American documents.


Well...this is just BS.

The Founding Generation believed eveyone had these rights...NOT just Americans. Now of course not everyone enjoyed these rights...but, as the Founders believed, you deny man these rights at your own peril.

Look...as I've mentioned...I don't think the borders should be open. I believe, constitutionally, AZ can handle the immigration problem as the people of AZ see fit.

The original poster brought up God and rights. He saida they have NO rights...read the founding fathers...there is no debate that they believed ALL men "are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".
Bill gray said:

quote:
They have no rights! They are here illegally. They are breaking the laws of our nation by being here illegally. What rights does a law breaker have -- except a bus ride back to the border crossing. And, then, America should bill Mexico for the bus fare.


Sorry, but that's incorrect and a misunderstanding of the constitution.

The constitution forbids unreasonable searches and seizures (and this doesn't just apply to one's home, but also to one's person). The constitution does not discriminate between citizens and non-citizens for most matters (with a few exceptions). Therefore, illegals have 4th amendment rights too. If you are within our borders, no matter how you got here, you have almost all constitutional rights the rest of us have.

Now, proponents of the bill say it does not allow Police the ability to randomly "check papers." Instead it only mandates they check papers on people already being detained or under suspicion of another crime. This sounds reasonable, and a way to not be in violation of the 4th, but I still think the law will be struck down by the courts. The reason being that we will have illegals claiming they were pulled over for "driving while Mexican" even if this isn't the case. It will be hard to prove either way and I think liberal courts will have a field day with this.
quote:
Originally posted by Clover-Dale:
Bill gray said:

quote:
They have no rights! They are here illegally. They are breaking the laws of our nation by being here illegally. What rights does a law breaker have -- except a bus ride back to the border crossing. And, then, America should bill Mexico for the bus fare.


Sorry, but that's incorrect and a misunderstanding of the constitution.

The constitution forbids unreasonable searches and seizures (and this doesn't just apply to one's home, but also to one's person). The constitution does not discriminate between citizens and non-citizens for most matters (with a few exceptions). Therefore, illegals have 4th amendment rights too. If you are within our borders, no matter how you got here, you have almost all constitutional rights the rest of us have.

Now, proponents of the bill say it does not allow Police the ability to randomly "check papers." Instead it only mandates they check papers on people already being detained or under suspicion of another crime. This sounds reasonable, and a way to not be in violation of the 4th, but I still think the law will be struck down by the courts. The reason being that we will have illegals claiming they were pulled over for "driving while Mexican" even if this isn't the case. It will be hard to prove either way and I think liberal courts will have a field day with this.


Thank you, Cloverdale for some sensible thoughts amid a sea of chauvinistic, jingoistic blather from folks who want the Constitution at work when it suits their interests and don't care much about it otherwise.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
Floodgates have been opened.

Let's just round up Hispanics like the US did to Japanese Americans. Pres Regan signed legislation that said "government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".

In the case of illegals the failed leadership is at the state and fed level. Those politicians that are now pointing fingers at the fed can also blame themselves. How may business are allowed to continue with just a little slap on the wrist after being discovered that have illegals working?

BTW, can someone tell me what an illegal person looks like?

Could a Hispanic person, that is a US citizen, that is jogging with no id be arrested?

The states can activate the NG. Nothing is stopping that. The real problem is states want troops but they don't want to pay for the troops. You can't scream the fed gov spends too much and ask for funding at the same time.


If an individual robs a bank and he is described as 6' 9", 300 pounds, with red hair, wearing a hoodie and I just happen to be in the area, just happen to fit this description, you can bet your last money I will be detained, questioned, placed in a review (line up) for witnesses...SEE the point here is that physical appearance can be a large component of Probable Cause. If you are innocent (LEGAL), you have nothing to fear. I have been asked to show ID when entering my own home, the young officer did not recognize me. When he apologized I told him NO PROBLEM, continue to do good police work. Legal Mexicans have an opportunity to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Oh, and not all Mexicans "LOOK" like Mexicans, the Castillians can have blond hair and blue eyes....but the COULD still be illegals.
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
1st - let me point out, the ' all men are created equal' bit - that was written by Aamericans. It is 100% true. That was the document used to declare that we are no longer subjects but instead Americans.
the constitution protects the rights of Americans. these people aren't Americans. Let them follow the proper channels, fill out the paper work, pay the fees and take their oath, THEN they come under the protection of American documents.


Well...this is just BS.

The Founding Generation believed eveyone had these rights...NOT just Americans. Now of course not everyone enjoyed these rights...but, as the Founders believed, you deny man these rights at your own peril.

Look...as I've mentioned...I don't think the borders should be open. I believe, constitutionally, AZ can handle the immigration problem as the people of AZ see fit.

The original poster brought up God and rights. He saida they have NO rights...read the founding fathers...there is no debate that they believed ALL men "are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness".


I don't care if the original poster brought up God. He brings up God if it's a discussion about fast foot.

As to the rest of it -

Ok, then. I'm wrong. Let's go on and remove all immigration laws. I mean, what's the point, right? Sure.. go ahead and close INS, and disband the border patrol.

Because if you aren't going to enforce the laws and control immigration, then we may as well add a new amendment that says 'if your feet are on American soil, you qualify as American and elegible to recieve all benefits and welfare and tax breaks thereof."

It takes drastic, overkill type soloutions to solve problems when no one is trying to acctually fix it. The laws are in place - right now. But no one wants to enforce them.
The Declaration of Independence was a drastic, overkill soloution to a problem that no one else would fix.

Arizona is trying to fix a problem that the federal government is ignoreing. They talk about it far and wide, but they don't acctually DO anything. Arizona did something, and now Obama is whiney because they don't care what he thinks about how they run their state, and because they did something he didn't control, or expect.

One final note to the people who are trying to put this in the same book as an SS trooper in Berlin saying " und vher ah dein paypurz? zhow me ze paypurz" are just silly.
nazi'swere doing this to find jewish germans, (german citizens) that they wanted to get rid of.
Arizona will be trying to find mexican citizens who are here illegally.
Compareing it to what happened to the Japanese Americans is also off base. THAT is closer to what the Nasi's did. They did it because they were afraid. Fear causes good people to do stupid things during difficult times.
I won't even pretend that what happened there was right. it was wrong, pure and simple, BECAUSE those people were Americans. These people are not.

I mean.. even the liberal media refers to them as illegals, or illegal immigrants. Have we used that word so much that we're forgetting what it means?
Unless they go through proper channels to become a citizen, round em up, get em out - I don't much care how it's done. If they go through the proper channels, follow procedure, then Welome, Friend, here's a little american flag sticker for your car, come on in and I'll buy you a hot dog.
I'm all in favor of Immigration. It's how we all got here. I'm not in favor of people just wandering over and signing up for welfare and making our taxes pay for educating their kids while they pay no taxes, pay nothing into social security, etc etc.

but lets use your non-plan. let em all in. legalize em. let em vote, even tho they've only been here 3 months, can't speak a word of english, and the only english they can read is 'check here to vote for democrat candidate in all races.'
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
Oh, and not all Mexicans "LOOK" like Mexicans, the Castillians can have blond hair and blue eyes....but the COULD still be illegals.

Hi Shel,

Not only the Castilian; but many from Southern part of Mexico have blonde hair and blue eyes. In 1970, I used to frequent a night club in Southern California. One guy was a good friend for several months. One evening we were talking and he spoke Spanish. Surprised, I asked, "Oh, you speak Spanish?"

He told me, "I should. I am Mexican."

My reply, "No, your hair is more blonde than mine!"

This is when he told me that a lot of people in Southern Mexico are blue eyed blondes. Since then I have met many others. So, hey, if not for my Alabama accent -- I might be mistaken for being a Mexican!

Y'all come back now, ya heah?

Bill

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quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
but lets use your non-plan. let em all in. legalize em. let em vote, even tho they've only been here 3 months, can't speak a word of english, and the only english they can read is 'check here to vote for democrat candidate in all races.'


Look, I'm not saying this...originally I was just taking issue with Bill Gray's "They have no rights!" statement.

In regards to AZ, I do think they have a good case...

In regards to Cloverdale and the Constitution...what he say's about 4th & 5th Amendment...what you have to remember, the Constitution limits the Federal Government.

An important question would be what does the AZ state constitution say about unreasonable searches and seizures.

I linked this very interesting article in another thread:

http://www.tenthamendmentcente...n-vs-naturalization/
quote:
Originally posted by Renegade Nation:
quote:
Originally posted by thenagel:
but lets use your non-plan. let em all in. legalize em. let em vote, even tho they've only been here 3 months, can't speak a word of english, and the only english they can read is 'check here to vote for democrat candidate in all races.'


Look, I'm not saying this...originally I was just taking issue with Bill Gray's "They have no rights!" statement.

In regards to AZ, I do think they have a good case...



ok, i'll hush then Smiler
far be it from me to stand in the way of showing everyone else that bill is wrong.
because i don't believe that they have no rights, i just think that they have no right to be here unlawfully.
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
Floodgates have been opened.

Let's just round up Hispanics like the US did to Japanese Americans. Pres Regan signed legislation that said "government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".

In the case of illegals the failed leadership is at the state and fed level. Those politicians that are now pointing fingers at the fed can also blame themselves. How may business are allowed to continue with just a little slap on the wrist after being discovered that have illegals working?

BTW, can someone tell me what an illegal person looks like?

Could a Hispanic person, that is a US citizen, that is jogging with no id be arrested?

The states can activate the NG. Nothing is stopping that. The real problem is states want troops but they don't want to pay for the troops. You can't scream the fed gov spends too much and ask for funding at the same time.


If an individual robs a bank and he is described as 6' 9", 300 pounds, with red hair, wearing a hoodie and I just happen to be in the area, just happen to fit this description, you can bet your last money I will be detained, questioned, placed in a review (line up) for witnesses...SEE the point here is that physical appearance can be a large component of Probable Cause. If you are innocent (LEGAL), you have nothing to fear. I have been asked to show ID when entering my own home, the young officer did not recognize me. When he apologized I told him NO PROBLEM, continue to do good police work. Legal Mexicans have an opportunity to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Oh, and not all Mexicans "LOOK" like Mexicans, the Castillians can have blond hair and blue eyes....but the COULD still be illegals.


I am not defending illegals. I am simply saying that detaining a person because you think that they are illegal is wrong.

Regardless of state laws, police can not make you identify yourself without reasonable suspicion. Simply walking down the street is not reasonable suspicion. We have already gone that path too many times in this country.

What gets me is many that have posted on this topic has made post in the past that Pres Obama is ignoring the Constitution with the things he wants but yet the same ones support this.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
Floodgates have been opened.

Let's just round up Hispanics like the US did to Japanese Americans. Pres Regan signed legislation that said "government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership".

In the case of illegals the failed leadership is at the state and fed level. Those politicians that are now pointing fingers at the fed can also blame themselves. How may business are allowed to continue with just a little slap on the wrist after being discovered that have illegals working?

BTW, can someone tell me what an illegal person looks like?

Could a Hispanic person, that is a US citizen, that is jogging with no id be arrested?

The states can activate the NG. Nothing is stopping that. The real problem is states want troops but they don't want to pay for the troops. You can't scream the fed gov spends too much and ask for funding at the same time.


If an individual robs a bank and he is described as 6' 9", 300 pounds, with red hair, wearing a hoodie and I just happen to be in the area, just happen to fit this description, you can bet your last money I will be detained, questioned, placed in a review (line up) for witnesses...SEE the point here is that physical appearance can be a large component of Probable Cause. If you are innocent (LEGAL), you have nothing to fear. I have been asked to show ID when entering my own home, the young officer did not recognize me. When he apologized I told him NO PROBLEM, continue to do good police work. Legal Mexicans have an opportunity to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Oh, and not all Mexicans "LOOK" like Mexicans, the Castillians can have blond hair and blue eyes....but the COULD still be illegals.


I am not defending illegals. I am simply saying that detaining a person because you think that they are illegal is wrong.

Regardless of state laws, police can not make you identify yourself without reasonable suspicion. Simply walking down the street is not reasonable suspicion. We have already gone that path too many times in this country.

What gets me is many that have posted on this topic has made post in the past that Pres Obama is ignoring the Constitution with the things he wants but yet the same ones support this.



If you are visiting France or Spain, LEGALLY, they can and will ask for your papers. You have to realize that we are dealing with an invasion force and they need to be treated accordingly. You want to come here...get in line, wait your turn, learn the language, respect the laws and people and prepare to assimilate. We have a culture, become a part of it.
We are not other countries.

Why are people not standing up for the Constitution on this issue? Where are the Tea Party members on this one.

I am a defender of the Constitution, nothing more nothing less.

Something does need to be done. But giving police the authority to stop me because I look like I am illegal is not it.

How about the state of AZ needs to stop allowing businesses to do business in their state if they are hiring illegals. Oh that wont happen because those business give big campaign contributions to the Repubs and Dems out there.

If companies were forced to stop hiring they would stop coming. A fire with no oxygen.......
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
We are not other countries.

Why are people not standing up for the Constitution on this issue? Where are the Tea Party members on this one.

I am a defender of the Constitution, nothing more nothing less.

Something does need to be done. But giving police the authority to stop me because I look like I am illegal is not it.

How about the state of AZ needs to stop allowing businesses to do business in their state if they are hiring illegals. Oh that wont happen because those business give big campaign contributions to the Repubs and Dems out there.

If companies were forced to stop hiring they would stop coming. A fire with no oxygen.......


You are an educated and intelligent person and I am virtually CERTAIN that you are PERSONALLY aware that the Arizona law DOES NOT allow initiation of contact on the basis you have indicated. The Arizona law works like the Alabama seat belt law...the contact is initiated by some other observed behavior that rises to the level of "Probable Cause". These people are deliberately breaking our laws, they are a foreign invasion force and the law needs to be enforced.
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
We are not other countries.

Why are people not standing up for the Constitution on this issue? Where are the Tea Party members on this one.

I am a defender of the Constitution, nothing more nothing less.

Something does need to be done. But giving police the authority to stop me because I look like I am illegal is not it.

How about the state of AZ needs to stop allowing businesses to do business in their state if they are hiring illegals. Oh that wont happen because those business give big campaign contributions to the Repubs and Dems out there.

If companies were forced to stop hiring they would stop coming. A fire with no oxygen.......


You are an educated and intelligent person and I am virtually CERTAIN that you are PERSONALLY aware that the Arizona law DOES NOT allow initiation of contact on the basis you have indicated. The Arizona law works like the Alabama seat belt law...the contact is initiated by some other observed behavior that rises to the level of "Probable Cause". These people are deliberately breaking our laws, they are a foreign invasion force and the law needs to be enforced.


All I am saying is don't violate my right's to enforce the law.

The only way to stop illegal immigration is to stop government aid if one does not have a valid social security number or documentation, heavily fine business that are found to hire illegals, and have some sort or barrier on the border (walls, cameras, troops, ect).

Again a fire can't last with out oxygen. The oxygen in the this case is jobs and aid.
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
This is like blaming the bank for having money instead of blaming the bank robber...these people are knowingly breaking the law and deserve to be treated accordingly. Those who are here legally have nothing to fear.


Companies that hire illegals are knowingly breaking the law also and deserve to be treated accordingly. We can't get to the root of this weed (problem) if we keep allowing companies to pour miracle grow (jobs) on it.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
quote:
Originally posted by SHELDIVR:
This is like blaming the bank for having money instead of blaming the bank robber...these people are knowingly breaking the law and deserve to be treated accordingly. Those who are here legally have nothing to fear.


Companies that hire illegals are knowingly breaking the law also and deserve to be treated accordingly. We can't get to the root of this weed (problem) if we keep allowing companies to pour miracle grow (jobs) on it.


Flo, your comments are intended as a distraction to the actual topic under discussion. I agree that employers have a responsibility to NOT hire illegals, BUT the issue here is the structure and legality of the Arizona law. Protection against profiling and discrimination are crafted into the Arizona law. This is no different from Alabama State Troopers requiring your DL, proof of insurance and registration (ownership). Legals will have the appropriate information, illegals need to be arrested. I know individuals, living in Alabama, who are foreign citizens, that would not go to WAL MART without green card and papers (not Mexicans). It's only a big deal if you are illegal or trying to protect/shelter an illegal. I'll say it again, if millions of Chinese people poured over our borders illegally, we would call it an INVASION...being Mexican makes no difference they are ILLEGAL INVADERS. YES, go after the employers, but above all else GO after the illegals.
quote:
Originally posted by flotown79:
We are not other countries.

Why are people not standing up for the Constitution on this issue? Where are the Tea Party members on this one.

I am a defender of the Constitution, nothing more nothing less.

Something does need to be done. But giving police the authority to stop me because I look like I am illegal is not it.

How about the state of AZ needs to stop allowing businesses to do business in their state if they are hiring illegals. Oh that wont happen because those business give big campaign contributions to the Repubs and Dems out there.

If companies were forced to stop hiring they would stop coming. A fire with no oxygen.......


What does the Constitution say about ignoring our laws? Nothing in the Arizona bill says you will or can be stopped because of your looks. Have you read the bill? Everyone is making a big deal out of something that's not even in the bill.
It is not just emplyment though Flo. Some of these border towns have the highest murder, kidnapping, and car theft rates of anywhere in the US. If the border is not brought under control, it is only a matter of time until a war will break out in that area. Stop it now, make them enter legally, and stop these companies from exploiting the workers. If the national government will not do something, then it is the state's right to do it.
quote:
Originally posted by teyates:
It is not just emplyment though Flo. Some of these border towns have the highest murder, kidnapping, and car theft rates of anywhere in the US. If the border is not brought under control, it is only a matter of time until a war will break out in that area. Stop it now, make them enter legally, and stop these companies from exploiting the workers. If the national government will not do something, then it is the state's right to do it.


The states could have placed NG troops on the border years ago.

I know employment is not the only problem but it is a major one. I lived in a border town for 4 years.

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