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As a Voter, Which has Priority - Religion or Politics?
All around town, quite a number of Americans seem uncertain about voting in the 2008 Election, and they have their reasons -

1- Some people have already decided not to vote because the last President never did anything for them. Even those who had strongly voiced their opinions on issues affecting the country were ignored by the President who went forward promoting his own agenda.

2- Approximately half of all Americans will vote because as an American citizen, it’s what they’re supposed to do.

3 – Another considerably sized group will not vote because from past experiences they really believe that their vote will not be counted, given the ancient voting machines and the newer electronic machines that can easily be hacked, and which do not provide a paper trail for post-electoral verification.

4- Then there is a sizeable Demographic group of Americans who will vote according to their religious convictions, which many believe got Bush into the White House, and they are known as right-wing Christians.

Understanding the people’s views on the above three, I cannot comprehend number four. How had religion come to cuddle with politics?

I was raised in a Catholic home and I went to Catholic school. I do not remember attending Mass or religious instructions nor the Priest speaking about politics or of politicians, not even in my Senior year when some of us were nearing the voting age. Religion and politics were not discussed in the same breath. The teachings were that religion is inherently personal.

I also do not recall my Priest reading a scripture from the Bible and then speaking as a matter of fact about politics and politicians. The two were respectfully separated and discussed when appropriate. During my last year, my religion class involved the history of Christianity and the Catholic religion. Politics was discussed only during our government and history studies.

Who’s the first to bring politics before the face of God? How had this mixed bag become a norm for some people? When had the political leaders become representatives of this country through the words of religious leaders?

Giving careful thought to religion and politics, I watched to see how this worked and I still cannot understand the hype (but I do the reasoning.) My suspicion is that the God some preachers worship isn’t in heaven but located in his bank.

Had the leaders come forth for those people in this country who lack faith in themselves and the ability to make a conscientious decision on their own? I know that many Americans only follow the leaders and rely on others to make their decision as to what is best for this country. (Where’s the independence? Is this a new way of free-thinking?) Some people are followers, and depend on the leaders to make decisions for them. I cannot comprehend this slavish attitude, but I do know that religion and politics have sprung in recent years to be used for political advantage.

In 2004, Republicans (campaign) partied with their selected religious leaders. There is more than a handful in this country for those interested to choose from to fit their own ideals. You know, listen to what the leaders have to offer and then decide. “I like what this leader is saying to me, so I’m going to go by his words.” “Nah, I don’t like this leader’s way of thinking. It doesn’t jell with my ideals. Let me hear what the other leaders are talking about. Perhaps I’ll hear what I want to hear to make up my mind whom I should vote for.”

Religious leaders delivered a great deal of talk during the 2004 presidential election and the Republicans wasted no time catching the pieces of information they felt were favorable to their agendas. Still, today, I cannot comprehend how a religious leader can verbalize publicly that if we vote Democrats this country will be run by homosexuals, abortion clinics, terrorists will attack us daily and that the only one to save us from this are the Republicans.

The comedy of errors is that some people had actually taken those leaders words to heart. What a way to go when one lack’s faith in themselves. Hilarious though is to learn that those leaders were involved in extra marital affairs, homosexual affairs with male prostitutes, sexual predators of the worse kind and/or preyed on children. The icing on the cake, quite a few Republicans had their share of corruption, lies and dirty deeds.

The Democrats cannot get off that easily. Plenty of information about those religious leaders could have been discovered before 2004. As well, all the colors Bush used to spell out terror attacks upon us at any given moment. Yet in the same breath, he suggested that all’s under control, go out, have a good time, spend money, go the movies and restaurants and to the stores before we begin to encounter serious problems with the economy. He spooned it to us and most swallowed the words. The Democrats could have used the information as leverage, but they chose to show emotion in the face of the bluffing, poker playing Republicans.

Is the time now for a positive change? As individual Americans with bursts of energy and strong spirits, wouldn’t it work best to think for ourselves, conduct our own research, look up information and study the candidates who are closest to saying the truth on issues important to us; which politician is best to handle the mess left by the former President and bring back what the United States of America means to all of us? Most Americans believe, We the People first.

Have faith in yourself when you vote November 2008. Rely on your own research and studies to conclude who will be our next President. Sway from relying one-hundred percent on the media, polls, religious leaders (who ought to stay focused on lecturing religion, not politics.) Let’s show strength and independence. Only you can know who’s right to run this country.

Let’s believe that as American citizens, we can look inside a candidate and choose what is best for this country with independence. May all voters this coming election, choose honest candidates. Truth matters.

CORNERSTONE
1- The Volokh Conspiracy - Ministers Trying to Mix Religion and Politics, Cleveland Plain Dealer Newspaper - <http://jeffreymark.typepad.com/myfolder/religion/index.html.

“Politics from the pulpit was so pervasive in Black churches that the Republicans came up with a strategy of quietly handing over cash to Black ministers for church projects in exchange for a promise to stick to preaching instead of exhorting a vote.”

“I’ve only heard serious arguments that preachers who use tax-exempt assets such as churches to promote specific candidates may be crossing the line. If that’s what the preachers are doing, then he’s just as bad as the rest. I believe that talking politics in church cheapens religion.”

2- Daily Times Newspaper - Thinking Aloud: Politics, Elections and God by Razi Azmi 11-4-04

“Modern and contemporary history is replete with instances of rift, violence and bloodshed when state and politics are infused with religion. Western and central Europe, now an inland of peace, stability progress and prosperity in a sea of instability, poverty and violence, was a theatre for war and bloodshed in the name of religion only a few centuries ago. Heretics were burnt alive and battles raged to preserve religious purity. It is due to this historical experience that Europe is now averse to mixing religion and politics and so tolerant of religious differences as to be a magnet for those fleeing religious persecution in other countries. Europeans learnt long ago that religion and politics don’t mix well.”

3- Peace Signs - Politics and Religion don’t Mix or Just not Your Politics? By Leo Hartshorn 6-21-05 / http://mennoniteusa.org/peace

“We live in a dangerous time in which mixing religion and politics can be volatile, like mixing fire and fuel.”

4- <http://www.politicalgateway.com/ Mixing Politics and Religion: Politicians Must Stop Playing God by Dean Hartwell ( http://www.deanhartwell.com ) 6-22-07

“We should not let politicians or anyone else define God for us. It may be true that we will never have a consensus of whom God is or is not. But when anyone stands up and opposes the forces of logic and reason and directs us to go to war or act with hatred toward anyone without explaining it, it is time to call him on it and ask them to stop playing God.”

5- Kathleen Kennedy Townsend - “Failing America ’s Faith - How Today’s Churches Are Mixing God with Politics and Losing Their Way.”

“For millions of Americans, faith defines who we are. We are not judged by the symbols we wear or use in our speeches, but we are judged by our actions and by the quality of our religious practice.”

6- Walter Jones, R-NC, introduced a bill that would allow churches, temples, mosques and other houses of worship to channel donations directly to political campaigns, and to use church resources to help elect or defeat specific candidates without losing their tax-exempt status. Even mainstream religious sentiment is strongly against it. Seventy-seven percent of clergy believes houses of worship should not be involved with political endorsements. Dozens of religious groups, including the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs, The Presbyterian Church Washington Office, The Central Conference of American Rabbis and the Congress of National Black Churches have signed a letter to Congress denouncing the Jones bill, saying, “Tying churches to partisan activity demeans the institutions from which many believers expect unimpeachable decency.”
http://ladyrm2.wordpress.com/as-a-voter-which-has-prior...eligion-or-politics/
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
If you are truly a Christian, how could you NOT vote what you believe?? You would be a hypocrite not to live what you believe. It is nuts to think your faith has nothing to do with politics.


I disagree with you! I believe in separation of church and state.


You believe in something that is NOT in the constitution then. Even if it was, it would have absolutely nothing to do with the individual. The only thing the gov't can't do, based on the constitution, is create a state run religion (ie. The Church of England) or keep you from practicing your own religion as you see fit. The exact quote is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
If you are truly a Christian, how could you NOT vote what you believe?? You would be a hypocrite not to live what you believe. It is nuts to think your faith has nothing to do with politics.


I disagree with you! I believe in separation of church and state.


You believe in something that is NOT in the constitution then. Even if it was, it would have absolutely nothing to do with the individual. The only thing the gov't can't do, based on the constitution, is create a state run religion (ie. The Church of England) or keep you from practicing your own religion as you see fit. The exact quote is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".



You need to catch up on your history!

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. The phrase itself does not appear in the Constitution, but it has been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.


There were also dissidents to the support of any established church even at the state level. In 1773, Isaac Backus, a prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when "church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued." Thomas Jefferson's influential Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was enacted in 1786, five years before the Bill of Rights.

[edit] Jefferson, Madison, and the "wall of separation"
The phrase "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" was first used by Baptist theologian Roger Williams, the founder of the colony of Rhode Island.[4][5] It was later used by Thomas Jefferson as a description of the First Amendment and its restriction on the legislative branch of the federal government, in an 1802 letter[6] to the Danbury Baptists (a religious minority concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist church in Connecticut), assuring that their rights as a religious minority would be protected from federal interference. As he stated:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Jefferson's letter was in reply to a letter[7] that he had received from the Danbury Baptist Association dated 1801-10-07. In an 1808 letter to Virginia Baptists, Jefferson would use the same theme:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_s...in_the_United_States



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
If you are truly a Christian, how could you NOT vote what you believe?? You would be a hypocrite not to live what you believe. It is nuts to think your faith has nothing to do with politics.


I disagree with you! I believe in separation of church and state.


You believe in something that is NOT in the constitution then. Even if it was, it would have absolutely nothing to do with the individual. The only thing the gov't can't do, based on the constitution, is create a state run religion (ie. The Church of England) or keep you from practicing your own religion as you see fit. The exact quote is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".



You need to catch up on your history!

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. The phrase itself does not appear in the Constitution, but it has been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.


There were also dissidents to the support of any established church even at the state level. In 1773, Isaac Backus, a prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when "church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued." Thomas Jefferson's influential Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was enacted in 1786, five years before the Bill of Rights.

[edit] Jefferson, Madison, and the "wall of separation"
The phrase "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" was first used by Baptist theologian Roger Williams, the founder of the colony of Rhode Island.[4][5] It was later used by Thomas Jefferson as a description of the First Amendment and its restriction on the legislative branch of the federal government, in an 1802 letter[6] to the Danbury Baptists (a religious minority concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist church in Connecticut), assuring that their rights as a religious minority would be protected from federal interference. As he stated:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Jefferson's letter was in reply to a letter[7] that he had received from the Danbury Baptist Association dated 1801-10-07. In an 1808 letter to Virginia Baptists, Jefferson would use the same theme:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_s...in_the_United_States



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill


You wasted time and effort on your cut and paste that has nothing to do with my comment. If you will READ what I said, you will notice that I stated "NOT in the constitution". I was absolutely correct. Everything that you posted are things that were written or said but are NOT in the constitution.

By the way, the LAST thing I need from you is a history lesson.
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by Southern Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by PBA:
quote:
Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
If you are truly a Christian, how could you NOT vote what you believe?? You would be a hypocrite not to live what you believe. It is nuts to think your faith has nothing to do with politics.


I disagree with you! I believe in separation of church and state.


You believe in something that is NOT in the constitution then. Even if it was, it would have absolutely nothing to do with the individual. The only thing the gov't can't do, based on the constitution, is create a state run religion (ie. The Church of England) or keep you from practicing your own religion as you see fit. The exact quote is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".



You need to catch up on your history!

The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase separation of church and state is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. The phrase itself does not appear in the Constitution, but it has been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.


There were also dissidents to the support of any established church even at the state level. In 1773, Isaac Backus, a prominent Baptist minister in New England, observed that when "church and state are separate, the effects are happy, and they do not at all interfere with each other: but where they have been confounded together, no tongue nor pen can fully describe the mischiefs that have ensued." Thomas Jefferson's influential Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom was enacted in 1786, five years before the Bill of Rights.

[edit] Jefferson, Madison, and the "wall of separation"
The phrase "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" was first used by Baptist theologian Roger Williams, the founder of the colony of Rhode Island.[4][5] It was later used by Thomas Jefferson as a description of the First Amendment and its restriction on the legislative branch of the federal government, in an 1802 letter[6] to the Danbury Baptists (a religious minority concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist church in Connecticut), assuring that their rights as a religious minority would be protected from federal interference. As he stated:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

Jefferson's letter was in reply to a letter[7] that he had received from the Danbury Baptist Association dated 1801-10-07. In an 1808 letter to Virginia Baptists, Jefferson would use the same theme:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_s...in_the_United_States



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill


You wasted time and effort on your cut and paste that has nothing to do with my comment. If you will READ what I said, you will notice that I stated "NOT in the constitution". I was absolutely correct. Everything that you posted are things that were written or said but are NOT in the constitution.

By the way, the LAST thing I need from you is a history lesson.




You wasted time and effort on your cut and paste that has nothing to do with my comment. If you will READ what I said, you will notice that I stated "NOT in the constitution". I was absolutely correct. Everything that you posted are things that were written or said but are NOT in the constitution.
I just posted the rest so others could see.I DID NOT SAY YOU WERE RIGHT OR WRONG RIGHT WINGER.


By the way, the LAST thing I need from you is a history lesson. I did not offer you a history lesson Right Winger!!! I just say you need to read your histroy! You are really a smart a.s.s. can you be nice?
quote:
Originally posted by DEENALYNNE:
If you are truly a Christian, how could you NOT vote what you believe?? You would be a hypocrite not to live what you believe. It is nuts to think your faith has nothing to do with politics.


I agree with you, but not just Christians, any other religion how can someone not let their religion influence their vote? You can still have Separation of Church and State because the clause only refers to the state interfering with the church and not the individual's right to believe or practice their religion. I as a Christian will vote for someone that will not restrict me in my religion and I expect that people of other faiths will do the same.

There are many many issues that is in the political side that is more of a religious nature than just political. If I vote for someone that supports something differently then I am saying that its alright...wont never happen.
This was taken from the article:

Politics was discussed only during our government and history studies.

Who’s the first to bring politics before the face of God? How had this mixed bag become a norm for some people? When had the political leaders become representatives of this country through the words of religious leaders?

Giving careful thought to religion and politics, I watched to see how this worked and I still cannot understand the hype (but I do the reasoning.) My suspicion is that the God some preachers worship isn’t in heaven but located in his bank.

Had the leaders come forth for those people in this country who lack faith in themselves and the ability to make a conscientious decision on their own? I know that many Americans only follow the leaders and rely on others to make their decision as to what is best for this country. (Where’s the independence? Is this a new way of free-thinking?) Some people are followers, and depend on the leaders to make decisions for them. I cannot comprehend this slavish attitude, but I do know that religion and politics have sprung in recent years to be used for political advantage.

In 2004, Republicans (campaign) partied with their selected religious leaders. There is more than a handful in this country for those interested to choose from to fit their own ideals. You know, listen to what the leaders have to offer and then decide. “I like what this leader is saying to me, so I’m going to go by his words.” “Nah, I don’t like this leader’s way of thinking. It doesn’t jell with my ideals. Let me hear what the other leaders are talking about. Perhaps I’ll hear what I want to hear to make up my mind whom I should vote for.”



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people... it is true that most stupid people are conservative." John Stuart Mill

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