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Ask an atheist

A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
There seems to be a lot of local misconceptions about atheism and atheists. When I'm curious about other people's way of doing things, I ask them to explain their understanding of the world and their ways to me and it has always been well received and a very rewarding and educational experience.

I'm not here to convince or "convert" anyone. I'm on the forum to offer another viewpoint on some issues that are often taken for granted in religious communities such as ours and to learn from others.

Honest questions are welcome. Silly comments, assumptions and general infantile behavior will be ignored as always.

I can only speak for myself. I'll answer to the best of my ability, given my real-life time constraints. I think it's worth a try.

So, feel free to ask an atheist.

---

It's impossible to speak with force in a muffled voice from the closet

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b50mb50mOld Faithful
Do atheists really eat babies? LOL.

I couldn't resist, I saw a picture about that.

More serious,
As science investigates the universe, it shows how it goes against the normal laws of physics. Dark matter and dark energy are just now being suspected. How do you reconcile these entities as happening by random chance? The universe is expanding faster as it enlarges, not slower. How do you explain that as well?
The universe operates on laws that are contrary to our know laws, so wouldn't it seem possible that a creator above and beyond the laws was necessary for these things to happen?
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
b50m,

Guess what? I don't know. LOL

Atheism does not claim to have all the answers to the universe and its mysteries. What it means to be atheist is simple. No belief in gods. All gods. Not having a belief in gods affords me the freedom to believe that science will adjust, reexamine, and correct itself where necessary to find the answers to these questions.

Where there are questions, I do not think there is enough evidence for god to be the answer. I will wait and see what we can prove or at least rule out.

I love the mystery, adventure of the unknown. To just put god in the place of the unexplainable just seems like giving up on the truth. If someone presented me with real evidence of god I would happily accept that. So far the best anyone has ever been able to give me is their faith. As I can appreciate their spirituality as real to them, its just not enough for me.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
I realize that all atheists are not scientific discoverers, just thought that many of the atheists on here seem to be highly trained in science.

I love the mysteries of the unknown as well. To borrow from a wise sage: When all logical methods have been explored then the only logical course is the illogical.

I don't put God in the place of the unexplained, just that we have not grown enough to reach Him. Every stride science takes gives us more information on how complex things really are and to explain it all by random chance would put the odds at astronomical levels, beyond what logic would dictate.
erica.c.king1erica.c.king1Member
So everyone I have ever talked to that is atheist I have asked the same question. However, I have never received a logical response. I guess I am going to try again. If there was no supreme being or original creator, then where did everything come from? And the "Big Bang" theory is not what I am asking. Even if there was a big bang, where did the particles colliding come from? Also since you don't believe in the Bible as anything more than a historical document (or at least this is what I have been told in the past) where do you believe everything is going? Since you are a non-believer, that would rule out the second coming and everything that goes along with it. I have always wanted to know what someone of your religious affiliation (or lack thereof I suppose) thought of these things other than I don't know or science will figure it out.
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
b50m, you ask:

quote:
The universe is expanding faster as it enlarges, not slower. How do you explain that as well?
The universe operates on laws that are contrary to our know laws, so wouldn't it seem possible that a creator above and beyond the laws was necessary for these things to happen?


That is why I answered as I did. I get the feeling from your post that I might have upset you or offended you somehow. If I did I sure didn't mean to.

That was just my most honest answer as I see it to your question. Just because we don't have all the answers to all the questions I don't think a creator is necessary as an explanation.

Once again, I really didn't mean to say anything else. Maybe BJBG or A. can answer you better than I did.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
OK, I'll start. Do you remember a time when you did not have a concept of "god"? If not, do you remember when you first conceived of the concept?

Please explain.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. I'm taking it to mean the last time I believed in a god(s) because I've obviously "always" had or understood the "concept" of a God or gods.

I really can't remember a time that I generally relied on or accepted in the existence of a deity (primarily a Christian type God, like most of us). In searching for a response, I remember being 5 or 6 and my younger brother needing several surgeries as an infant and my mom taking me to her favorite chapel to pray for good outcomes and not really getting the gist of how it worked but I could see her pain and fear and sincerity in asking for divine help and I, of course, joined her but I don't think it was my certain understanding (or faith) that it would work. I do, however, recall as a child thinking/hoping that if I did certain difficult physical/behavioral tasks that it might help me (in exchange) to get things that I wanted, but my efforts weren't directed at any deity in particular, it was sort of barter type thing with the cosmos lol. I think that's the closest I've come to prayer.

I don't recall a time when any of it, as I understood it, made sense to me, either as a pre-teen in junior high while re-considering all kinds of family beliefs independently and especially as a young teen in high school. The more I explored the religious beliefs around me and the more I learned about what my peers believed in, the more secure I was that it wasn't for me. Fortunately, after I was certain or satisfied that religion wasn't my thing, it didn't often (if ever) present as an issue at all. It was just how things were, it made sense and that was it, no angst.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Gifted Child:
Have you ever came across what some people would call concrete evidence of any form? Is there anything that has made you think.


No, not at all. Most claims make me think but I haven't come across anything remotely approaching "concrete evidence". Obviously if I did I would be forced to reconsider my position. If there were such a thing as concrete evidence there would be nothing to be skeptical about.
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. I'm taking it to mean the last time I believed in a god(s) because I've obviously "always" had or understood the "concept" of a God or gods.

Maybe you haven't misunderstood.

This is the gist of my question.

When did you NOT have a concept of god? You say you had it at 5 years old, before you had a concept of reading, perhaps colors, certainly numbers, and geography.

It's because your parents were religious and assumed that you should share their religion.

There are no christian children. There are no Jewish or Muslim children. There are children.

They should be left alone about religion until they're curious about it.
JankinonyaJankinonyaOld Faithful
I am only going to address these questions and leave the science theories/hypothesis to someone else.

quote:
Originally posted by erica.c.king1:
Also since you don't believe in the Bible as anything more than a historical document (or at least this is what I have been told in the past) where do you believe everything is going?


I believe the bible can be classified as a partial historical document. Not everything in the bible can be proven historically accurate, so it is not even a true history book to me.

As for where things are going...well I hope I understand your question. I think that we can definitely move forward as humans without the belief in the bible. As human beings we have grown and evolved in our education and understanding of what it takes to be a productive society.
We know that being kind to our neighbors, charity and honesty are qualities that are needed to progress as civilized citizens. We know that murder, rape, child molestation, and thievery are not acceptable behaviors in a civilized society. We have laws to protect us from those that do not want to follow these basic but necessary rules.

Going forward we teach our children sympathy, love and charity for the betterment of man kind. To me religion has become a hindrance to such a life. It divides and labels. It is the reason for wars and conflict all over the world. Women are treated as property or in the very least as less intelligent and the cause of mens sins in many religions. Children are married off to old men in the name of god.

There has to be a better way than to believe in a doctrine created by bronze age men at a time when earthquakes could only be explained by saying "god is angry"

So if I have understood what you were asking, I have to say that we move forward as enlightened, evolved, and educated humans to make our lives the best we can while we are here.

quote:
Since you are a non-believer, that would rule out the second coming and everything that goes along with it. I have always wanted to know what someone of your religious affiliation (or lack thereof I suppose) thought of these things other than I don't know or science will figure it out.


If you mean, what happens after we die, then I can only answer how any honest person would. I don't know. Sometimes we have to accept that we don't have all the answers yet. I would love to believe that there is this wonderful peaceful place I will reside after death. Its like a fantasy to me. I would also love to believe that when I die I get to come back as someone else. Maybe a house cat. Cats have it made. Smiler These are religious beliefs that have no evidence to back them up other than the books that the doctrine itself comes from. That is not evidence.

Personally I think that it will just end. Your heart stops, your brain stops functioning and there is nothing. That doesn't scare me. How could it? I would know nothing. I will be nothing. I think that is a hard thing for a lot of people to get their minds around. It is something deep in our psyche to want to believe in immortality.

That is also the reason that I believe we should not waste our lives. Be productive, love and live. Never stop learning or trying to improve the human condition. Enjoy the simple and the great things. Just live this life you have to the fullest, it is more than likely the only one you will get. IMO
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
Do atheists really eat babies? LOL.

I couldn't resist, I saw a picture about that.

More serious,
As science investigates the universe, it shows how it goes against the normal laws of physics. Dark matter and dark energy are just now being suspected. How do you reconcile these entities as happening by random chance? The universe is expanding faster as it enlarges, not slower. How do you explain that as well?
The universe operates on laws that are contrary to our know laws, so wouldn't it seem possible that a creator above and beyond the laws was necessary for these things to happen?


FYI, baby eating is no longer an accepted atheist practice Big Grin

I'm not good at cosmology questions since I claim absolutely no expertise on such subjects whatsoever and most of the interesting stuff is quite cutting edge and our attempts at understanding are nascent and theoretical. However, I have yet to read anything that has led me to question in favor of the actual existence of gods or deities (depending on definition) in our universe. The fact that our previous scientific understanding of the natural universe may be insufficient to explain new phenomena, factors or knowledge is only proof that we have a lot to learn yet. That has always been the case. What it doesn't mean is that because we cannot yet explain the mechanics of everything new that we discover that the answer must necessarily lie in the existence of a creator or supernatural force. This has never been the case.

I think "random chance" is probably a poor way of describing what is going on around us. It's certainly something I haven't said. But I can try to address it later if necessary.

Thank you. More later.
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
As for where things are going...well I hope I understand your question. I think that we can definitely move forward as humans without the belief in the bible. As human beings we have grown and evolved in our education and understanding of what it takes to be a productive society.


My dear Jank,

I might suggest that we must abandon the Bible as a root source of morality and reality before we can move forward.

Same for the Qu'ran, the Torah, and all other Holy Texts. They all retard human progress.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
b50m, you ask:

quote:
The universe is expanding faster as it enlarges, not slower. How do you explain that as well?
The universe operates on laws that are contrary to our know laws, so wouldn't it seem possible that a creator above and beyond the laws was necessary for these things to happen?


That is why I answered as I did. I get the feeling from your post that I might have upset you or offended you somehow. If I did I sure didn't mean to.

That was just my most honest answer as I see it to your question. Just because we don't have all the answers to all the questions I don't think a creator is necessary as an explanation.

Once again, I really didn't mean to say anything else. Maybe BJBG or A. can answer you better than I did.


No,no,no,no,no,no, Jank you did not upset or offend me. I understand what you are saying. We both see the same science, I just add God and mix and you don't! Smiler
I just can't see science explaining the universe since the laws don't work. Maybe one day we can get to the heart of it but I thibk we will find the creator there, my opinion.

We good? Cool
Billy Joe Bob GeneBilly Joe Bob GeneHall of Famer
quote:
Posted 08 August 2010 06:32 PM Hide Post
I am only going to address these questions and leave the science theories/hypothesis to someone else.

quote:
Originally posted by erica.c.king1:
Also since you don't believe in the Bible as anything more than a historical document (or at least this is what I have been told in the past) where do you believe everything is going?



I believe the bible can be classified as a partial historical document. Not everything in the bible can be proven historically accurate, so it is not even a true history book to me.

As for where things are going...well I hope I understand your question. I think that we can definitely move forward as humans without the belief in the bible. As human beings we have grown and evolved in our education and understanding of what it takes to be a productive society.
We know that being kind to our neighbors, charity and honesty are qualities that are needed to progress as civilized citizens. We know that murder, rape, child molestation, and thievery are not acceptable behaviors in a civilized society. We have laws to protect us from those that do not want to follow these basic but necessary rules.

Going forward we teach our children sympathy, love and charity for the betterment of man kind. To me religion has become a hindrance to such a life. It divides and labels. It is the reason for wars and conflict all over the world. Women are treated as property or in the very least as less intelligent and the cause of mens sins in many religions. Children are married off to old men in the name of god.

There has to be a better way than to believe in a doctrine created by bronze age men at a time when earthquakes could only be explained by saying "god is angry"


Damm.

This is poetry. Of the most essential sort.

I stand impressed.
b50mb50mOld Faithful
So if I am reading all of you correctly, you view religion, any religion, as the root cause of evil. I can certainly understand religion being used for evil, it has throughout history. However, religion has also been the coverup for the real causes: racism, greed, power, domination, control, resources, territory, etc....
There are plenty of evils in the world that don't deal with religion.

I do believe you can have morals, a good heart and a caring soul without religion. Those things don't change with religion. I'm not one of the die hard Bible thumpers, and as I have already said, I'm not Wiccan, just made that up to test Bill's reaction.
I was raised in a house with a Catholic mother and a Presbyterian father. We went to the Presbyterian church until they decided we were not rich enough. After that, it was find out on my own.
I have only felt my spiritual awareness in the last few years. I can't put it in a box and show anyone, so I guess, no proof.
Anyway, I'm rambling again.

So, do atheists argue over non-existent beings like religious people do? Smiler
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
Question to any or all:

Do you have a soul?


I really don't think so (depending on the definition of soul). I am alive and am not inanimate. The functioning of my brain (primarily but in conjunction to all other essential parts) is the reason I am. When one sees a dead person or animal the appearance is of a mere vessel with something major missing. Many would call the missing part of a corpse a soul. To me, the missing part is just the lack of life.

quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
quote:
[jank]We know that murder, rape, child molestation, and thievery are not acceptable behaviors in a civilized society


Any atheist: do you believe these to be immoral?


Personally, I don't use the word immoral due to religious connotations. But clearly these and many other human behaviors are highly unethical and unacceptable in any context and antithetical to common human welfare in general and the wider furthering of civilized existence.
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by erica.c.king1:
...If there was no supreme being or original creator, then where did everything come from? And the "Big Bang" theory is not what I am asking. Even if there was a big bang, where did the particles colliding come from? Also since you don't believe in the Bible as anything more than a historical document (or at least this is what I have been told in the past) where do you believe everything is going? Since you are a non-believer, that would rule out the second coming and everything that goes along with it. I have always wanted to know what someone of your religious affiliation (or lack thereof I suppose) thought of these things other than I don't know or science will figure it out.


Sorry erica, I think you were hoping for more but I really don't know where everything came from. I don't think anyone actually knows. However, I haven't seen any compelling reasons to believe that it's more likely that out of the thousand or more conceivable explanations that any particular god (as generally described by the Abrahamic religions, for example) is behind it all.

As to where things are going, I know the answer to that one even less. I think humanity's future is in humanity's hands and the future is certainly uncertain. I don't believe that there is a master plan guiding our path, anything naturally conceivable can happen. Which is all the more reason to respect how close we all may be to oblivion due to our own doing (or rather misdoings).
L LoveShackHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
b50m,

Guess what? I don't know. LOL

Atheism does not claim to have all the answers to the universe and its mysteries. What it means to be atheist is simple. No belief in gods. All gods. Not having a belief in gods affords me the freedom to believe that science will adjust, reexamine, and correct itself where necessary to find the answers to these questions.

Where there are questions, I do not think there is enough evidence for god to be the answer. I will wait and see what we can prove or at least rule out.

I love the mystery, adventure of the unknown. To just put god in the place of the unexplainable just seems like giving up on the truth. If someone presented me with real evidence of god I would happily accept that. So far the best anyone has ever been able to give me is their faith. As I can appreciate their spirituality as real to them, its just not enough for me.


The proof is in the pudding! The only proof I can give you is have you heard the voice of God lately? Adam, Abraham, Moses, Daniel, Paul, etc. all heard His voice as He spoke to them. It's the same today. Millions of Christians have heard the call and millions have responded, but let me leave you with what Jesus said "many are called but few are chosen". So if the call is real you better start picking up that phone before it's too late and if all these Christians are crazy then no big deal they just in up right back in the earth according to Atheist.
L LoveShackHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Jankinonya:
I am only going to address these questions and leave the science theories/hypothesis to someone else.

quote:
Originally posted by erica.c.king1:
Also since you don't believe in the Bible as anything more than a historical document (or at least this is what I have been told in the past) where do you believe everything is going?


I believe the bible can be classified as a partial historical document. Not everything in the bible can be proven historically accurate, so it is not even a true history book to me.

As for where things are going...well I hope I understand your question. I think that we can definitely move forward as humans without the belief in the bible. As human beings we have grown and evolved in our education and understanding of what it takes to be a productive society.
We know that being kind to our neighbors, charity and honesty are qualities that are needed to progress as civilized citizens. We know that murder, rape, child molestation, and thievery are not acceptable behaviors in a civilized society. We have laws to protect us from those that do not want to follow these basic but necessary rules.

Going forward we teach our children sympathy, love and charity for the betterment of man kind. To me religion has become a hindrance to such a life. It divides and labels. It is the reason for wars and conflict all over the world. Women are treated as property or in the very least as less intelligent and the cause of mens sins in many religions. Children are married off to old men in the name of god.

There has to be a better way than to believe in a doctrine created by bronze age men at a time when earthquakes could only be explained by saying "god is angry"

So if I have understood what you were asking, I have to say that we move forward as enlightened, evolved, and educated humans to make our lives the best we can while we are here.

quote:
Since you are a non-believer, that would rule out the second coming and everything that goes along with it. I have always wanted to know what someone of your religious affiliation (or lack thereof I suppose) thought of these things other than I don't know or science will figure it out.


If you mean, what happens after we die, then I can only answer how any honest person would. I don't know. Sometimes we have to accept that we don't have all the answers yet. I would love to believe that there is this wonderful peaceful place I will reside after death. Its like a fantasy to me. I would also love to believe that when I die I get to come back as someone else. Maybe a house cat. Cats have it made. Smiler These are religious beliefs that have no evidence to back them up other than the books that the doctrine itself comes from. That is not evidence.

Personally I think that it will just end. Your heart stops, your brain stops functioning and there is nothing. That doesn't scare me. How could it? I would know nothing. I will be nothing. I think that is a hard thing for a lot of people to get their minds around. It is something deep in our psyche to want to believe in immortality.

That is also the reason that I believe we should not waste our lives. Be productive, love and live. Never stop learning or trying to improve the human condition. Enjoy the simple and the great things. Just live this life you have to the fullest, it is more than likely the only one you will get. IMO


So any chance you have read the New Testament with an open mind, especially Jesus's teachings to see if He sheds any light about life?
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by b50m:
So if I am reading all of you correctly, you view religion, any religion, as the root cause of evil. I can certainly understand religion being used for evil, it has throughout history. However, religion has also been the coverup for the real causes: racism, greed, power, domination, control, resources, territory, etc....
There are plenty of evils in the world that don't deal with religion.

I do believe you can have morals, a good heart and a caring soul without religion. Those things don't change with religion. I'm not one of the die hard Bible thumpers, and as I have already said, I'm not Wiccan, just made that up to test Bill's reaction.
I was raised in a house with a Catholic mother and a Presbyterian father. We went to the Presbyterian church until they decided we were not rich enough. After that, it was find out on my own.
I have only felt my spiritual awareness in the last few years. I can't put it in a box and show anyone, so I guess, no proof.
Anyway, I'm rambling again.

So, do atheists argue over non-existent beings like religious people do? Smiler


b50m,

Speaking for myself, I don't think that religion is the root cause of evil at all. That's a ridiculous statement. People are the root cause of "evil". Clearly, a lot of suffering has come directly because of religious dictates and prejudices but since religion and gods are people-made, ultimately the responsibility for reprehensible acts falls squarely at the feet of people

As for morals and ethics, it should be obvious but it is also historically sound to say that doing the right thing was not invented by Jesus or Moses or Buddha or Odin or Zeus or Ra, etc.

As to your last question: There's nothing to argue about! Smiler
A. RobustusA. RobustusPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by rramlimnn:
[ quote A dot] “I don't use the word immoral due to religious connotations”

Are you a moral skeptic as defined: “To deny or doubt moral knowledge, justified moral belief, moral truth, moral facts or properties, and reasons to be moral.”


I can't say that I know what that definition means only partially because there is no definition of "moral" included.
rramlimnnrramlimnnPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by A. Robustus:
I will do the best I can to keep track and keep up as needed but as a working stiff with a family (and all that comes with both) I'm limited on free time, pretty much 7 days a week.

Thank you for your questions. I hope this is a mutually beneficial endeavor.


I think it is A dot.

I understand and just take your time. Wink
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