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There's nothing like ringing in the new year with an old canard.

A few days ago, the chancellor of a public university, Troy University in Alabama, sent students and staff an email message regarding the new year. In addition to expressing his hope that their new year would "be blessed," Chancellor Jack Hawkins, Jr. included a link to a video, which, he said, would serve as a reminder of America's "greatness and vulnerability."

 

The video itself is ninety seconds of intellectual rubbish and bigotry masquerading as insight. Essentially, it's a Harvard business school professor making the claim that religious belief is essential for democracy. The professor suggests that if people do not believe in God, they will not voluntarily obey the law. The video ends with the ominous observation, "If you take away religion, you can't hire enough police."

 

The assertion that widespread atheism will lead to moral and social decline is a claim oft-repeated. But frequent repetition doesn't make this unsupported assertion true. Instead, it serves as a reminder of the prejudice that many have toward atheists, as well as a telling admission of the weakness of arguments for theism.

 

To begin, where's the evidence to support this claim? None is cited in the video. That's not surprising, because there is no evidence to support this claim. What evidence is available refutes the purported connection between disbelief in God and moral and social decline. Widespread, voluntary rejection of belief in God is a phenomenon of only the last several decades, but there are a number of European countries, principally in Scandinavia, where a significant percentage of the population, if not a majority, no longer believes in a deity. The sociologist Phil Zuckerman, in his book-length study, Society Without God, described how Sweden and Denmark are peaceful, prosperous democracies with generally law-abiding, civic-minded populations, whose crime rates compare favorably with the United States, a much more religious nation. Their police presence is much lower as well. So much for the supposed tumble into the abyss.

 

Moreover, empirical studies of the behavior of theists and nontheists have not revealed any significant causal connection between lack of belief in God and criminal conduct. If one visits our prisons, one would find the overwhelming majority of inmates are believers.

Admittedly, a few years ago, the researchers Robert Putnam and David Campbell did conduct surveys, the results of which were summarized in their 2010 book American Grace: How Religion Divides and Unites Us, which purported to show that religious Americans are more pro-social than nonreligious Americans. For example, religious Americans donate more to charities. Leaving aside questions about their methodology (the surveys relied heavily on self-reporting), a close look at their studies shows that it's not religious belief per se that correlates with altruism, but rather being active in a religious community. Being actively engaged in community associations may have some connection with pro-social behavior (in part, because it serves as a reminder of our obligations toward others), but there's no reason to think that civic associations cannot perform this function as well as religious groups.

 

In addition, the Putnam and Campbell study revealed one important aspect of conduct toward others where the nonreligious scored better than the religious, and that is with respect to support of civil liberties and conduct and attitudes toward minorities, such as gays and lesbians. Put simply, the nonreligious are, overall, more tolerant. Bottom line: even assuming the Putnam and Campbell study is reliable, at most it shows that there are some differences in conduct between religious and nonreligious, not that a religious society is necessarily better or that a democracy cannot survive with a nonreligious population. 

 

Of course, the most interesting thing about the assertions that atheism leads to moral decay is the motivation for such claims. Exactly who is supposed to be persuaded by these claims? It's not like atheists are suddenly going to slap their foreheads and exclaim, "My goodness, I better start believing in God." No, these claims are clearly designed to bolster the religious who may have some doubts about the soundness of their beliefs. To put it mildly, the intellectual foundations for theism have been greatly eroded over the last couple of centuries. It is much more difficult to accept belief in invisible spirits. So, if one cannot come up with a positive argument for belief in God, try to scare people into believing. We better believe in God or chaos will result!

This viewpoint is sad enough when it's found in the ordinary believer. It's especially unfortunate when it's articulated by the head of a tax-supported public university. At the end of the day, Chancellor Hawkins's  message reveals more about him than it does about atheism. Among other things, it shows he may be in more need of education than many of his students.

    

 

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...txtlnkusaolp00000592

   

Last edited by Bestworking
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quote:   Originally Posted by Bestworking: 
quote: Originally Posted by Mr. Hooberbloob:
 
 I do believe liberalism and moral decline go hand in hand.

 

That's pretty much a given, and I, an atheist, totally agree with you about hard core liberalism/liberals, such as the bunch making noise now. But, no matter what the so called christians say, not all atheists are liberals.

Hi all,

 

I tend to agree with both Mr. Hoob and with Jennifer Best.   And, while I do not agree that a person is morally corrupt because he/she is an atheist or other non-believer -- I do think that, being a non-believer and not having the more defined ethical and moral guidelines provided by God in His Bible -- a person could tend to stray from the correct path.

 

I am reminded of a Christmas season in the early 1980s when my wife and I were driving home from California to Alabama to spend the season with my family.  From Southern Cal to Flagstaff, AZ - perfect weather.  Next morning, leaving Flagstaff driving toward Albuquerque - snow.   About 6:00 PM we stopped at a Union 76 Truck Stop in Albuquerque to refuel and eat dinner, planning to stop for the night because of the snow.  But, talking with several truck drivers who assured us that maybe 50 miles east of Albuquerque the snow stopped -- we decided to continue driving toward Amarillo.

 

Bad mistake.   Driving east  from Albuquerque toward Amarillo took us through the mountains -- where it was still snowing, a dry blowing snow which was blinding.  At that time, this road was only two lanes in each direction -- but, because of the snow I could not see the road, everything was covered with snow and it was impossible to distinguish the road from the shoulder.   Normally, on such roads I hate trucks passing me.  But, that night when the trucks did go past, their backwash blew away the dry snow so that I could see the road.  That night I prayed for more trucks.

 

As I was driving, I was imagining us, not being able to see the road, going into a ravine where we would not be found until the next spring thaw.  I did not voice my fear to Dory, but that was the most scared I have ever been and I still think about it.  

 

The point of my story is that -- because I could not see the road, i.e., the guidelines, it would have been easier for me to stray off the path and into danger.  I may have missed a turn in the road and driven into a ravine or over a cliff.

 

Folks following the world's, i.e., society's, much broader moral guidelines -- instead of God's guidelines -- have a much greater chance of walking into a moral ravine or over a moral cliff.

 

Without having read the article or watched the video -- I believe that may have been the moral problems Chancellor Jack Hawkins, Jr. of Troy University was warning us about.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Bible - Your Roadmap For Life

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Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

I tend to agree with both Mr. Hoob and with Jennifer Best.   And, while I do not agree that a person is morally corrupt because he/she is an atheist or other non-believer -- I do think that, being a non-believer and not having the more defined ethical and moral guidelines provided by God in His Bible -- a person could tend to stray from the correct path.

 =====================================

 

O RLY?

 

You mean, like these fine upstanding righteous christian pillars of moral superiority?

http://aattp.org/alabama-child...er-the-number-video/

 

Or this one?

 

http://gawker.com/5544809/alab...four-years-sentenced

 

Or maybe this one?

 

 USA Today

July 19, 1996

In Dadeville, Alabama, Mr. Gabel Taylor, 38, who had just prevailed in an informal Bible-quoting contest, was shot to death by the loser.

 

Or perhaps these knuckleheads....

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/biblesays.htm

 

But...maybe they were just....erm....'interpreting His Bible' wrong....?

 

 

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

 

Uh....nope.

 

Ah! Here we go!

 

Num.31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying15-18 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves….30-35) And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses…And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

 

Uh...nope, not that one either....

I know! How about:

 

    The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery.  How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

 

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.  (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

    So these are the Bible family values!  A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

 

Ah, well... There's always:

 

 

 

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

 

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

 

Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

 

Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 

Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

 

Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

 

Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

 

Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

 

Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

 

Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

 

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

 

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 

Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

 

Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

 

    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

 

Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

 

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

 

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 


 

2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

 

Kill Brats

    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

 

God Kills the Curious 

    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

 

Killed by a Lion

    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!"  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me."  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

 

Killing the Good Samaritan

    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

 


 

3) Murdering Children

 

Kill Sons of Sinners

    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

 

God Will Kill Children

    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and ******* that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

 

Kill Men, Women, and Children

    "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

 

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

 

Kill Old Men and Young Women

    "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD.  "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD.  "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy," says the LORD.  "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

     (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

 

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

 

More Rape and Baby Killing

    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

 



OK,  no...wait....GTFO.  SRSLY.

 

TELL ME AGAIN WHY CHRISTIANS ARE SO MORALLY SUPERIOR TO ATHEISTS?!

 

 

 

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Last edited by Road Puppy

Puppy, my Friend,

 

You are getting to be almost as good at copy/pasting as my Friend, Vic.   Maybe if you will park that Noo Yawk toy you ride long enough -- you just might learn how to actually write YOUR OWN thoughts.

 

But, I realize that is asking a lot from a Noo Yawker!

 

Bless your little Noo Yawk darkened heart!

 

Bill

Motorcycle-Kid

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Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Hi all,

 

I tend to agree with both Mr. Hoob and with Jennifer Best.   And, while I do not agree that a person is morally corrupt because he/she is an atheist or other non-believer -- I do think that, being a non-believer and not having the more defined ethical and moral guidelines provided by God in His Bible -- a person could tend to stray from the correct path.

 =====================================

 

O RLY?

 

You mean, like these fine upstanding righteous christian pillars of moral superiority?

http://aattp.org/alabama-child...er-the-number-video/

 

Or this one?

 

http://gawker.com/5544809/alab...four-years-sentenced

 

Or maybe this one?

 

 USA Today

July 19, 1996

In Dadeville, Alabama, Mr. Gabel Taylor, 38, who had just prevailed in an informal Bible-quoting contest, was shot to death by the loser.

 

Or perhaps these knuckleheads....

 

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/biblesays.htm

 

But...maybe they were just....erm....'interpreting His Bible' wrong....?

 

 

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

 

Uh....nope.

 

Ah! Here we go!

 

Num.31:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying15-18 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves….30-35) And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses…And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him.

 

Uh...nope, not that one either....

I know! How about:

 

    The following passage describes the sickening practice of sex slavery.  How can anyone think it is moral to sell your own daughter as a sex slave?

 

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.  (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

 

    So these are the Bible family values!  A man can buy as many sex slaves as he wants as long as he feeds them, clothes them, and screws them!

 

Ah, well... There's always:

 

 

 

1) Capital Punishment Crimes:

 

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

    Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

 

Kill Witches

    You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

 

Kill Homosexuals
    "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

Kill Fortunetellers

    A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death.  (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

 

Death for Hitting Dad

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.  (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

 

Death for Cursing Parents

    1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

    2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

 

Death for Adultery

    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death.  (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

 

Death for Fornication

    A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.  (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

 

Death to Followers of Other Religions

    Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

 

Kill Nonbelievers

    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

 

Kill False Prophets

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord."  When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through.  (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

 

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

 

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

    But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house.  Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.  (Deuteronomy  22:20-21 NAB)

 

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

    1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

 

    2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

 

Death for Blasphemy

    One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men.  During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name.  So the man was brought to Moses for judgment.  His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan.  They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.  Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head.  Then let the entire community stone him to death.  Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished.  Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel.  Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.  (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

 

Kill False Prophets

    1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles,  and the predicted signs or miracles take place.  If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them.  The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul.  Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone.  Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him.  The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt.  Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

 

    2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.'  You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?'  If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message.  That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared.  (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

 

Infidels and Gays Should Die

    So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired.  As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.  Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies.  So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever.  Amen.  That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires.  Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.  And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other.  Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved.  When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done.  Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.  They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful.  They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents.  They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.  They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway.  And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.  (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

 

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle

    For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites.  You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment.  They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it.  Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again.  Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.'  (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

 

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath

    The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

 


 

2) God's Murders for Stupid Reasons:

 

Kill Brats

    From there Elisha went up to Bethel.  While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him.  "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!"  The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord.  Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces.  (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

 

God Kills the Curious 

    And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter.  And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us?   (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)

 

Killed by a Lion

    Meanwhile, the LORD instructed one of the group of prophets to say to another man, "Strike me!"  But the man refused to strike the prophet.  Then the prophet told him, "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, a lion will kill you as soon as you leave me."  And sure enough, when he had gone, a lion attacked and killed him.  (1 Kings 20:35-36 NLT)

 

Killing the Good Samaritan

    The ark of God was placed on a new cart and taken away from the house of Abinadab on the hill.  Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab guided the cart, with Ahio walking before it, while David and all the Israelites made merry before the Lord with all their strength, with singing and with citharas, harps, tambourines, sistrums, and cymbals.

    When they came to the threshing floor of Nodan, Uzzah reached out his hand to the ark of God to steady it, for the oxen were making it tip.  But the Lord was angry with Uzzah; God struck him on that spot, and he died there before God.  (2 Samuel 6:3-7 NAB)

 


 

3) Murdering Children

 

Kill Sons of Sinners

    Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.  (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

 

God Will Kill Children

    The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived.  Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you.  It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone.  I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre.  But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered."  O LORD, what should I request for your people?  I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and ******* that give no milk.  The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them.  I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions.  I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels.  The people of Israel are stricken.  Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit.  And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children."  (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

 

Kill Men, Women, and Children

    "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked.  Show no mercy; have no pity!  Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.  But do not touch anyone with the mark.  Begin your task right here at the Temple."  So they began by killing the seventy leaders.  "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded.  "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill!  Go!"  So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."  (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

 

God Kills all the First Born of Egypt

    And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed.  Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died.  (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

 

Kill Old Men and Young Women

    "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD.  "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms.  With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer.  With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens.  With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.  "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD.  "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth!  I am your enemy," says the LORD.  "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights.  When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble.  You will be desolate forever.  Even your stones will never again be used for building.  You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD.  (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

     (Note that after God promises the Israelites a victory against Babylon, the Israelites actually get their butts kicked by them in the next chapter.  So much for an all-knowing and all-powerful God.)

 

God Will Kill the Children of Sinners

    If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.  I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

 

More Rape and Baby Killing

    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

 



OK,  no...wait....GTFO.  SRSLY.

 

TELL ME AGAIN WHY CHRISTIANS ARE SO MORALLY SUPERIOR TO ATHEISTS?!

 

 

 

hqdefault

 

Wow. I've always known of the murder, violence and barbaric behavior in the bible but seeing most of it all in one place is kinda re-shocking. Really makes you think. 

 

Excellent post RP. 

Last edited by Seven
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Puppy, my Friend,

 

You are getting to be almost as good at copy/pasting as my Friend, Vic.   Maybe if you will park that Noo Yawk toy you ride long enough -- you just might learn how to actually write YOUR OWN thoughts.

 

But, I realize that is asking a lot from a Noo Yawker!

 

Bless your little Noo Yawk darkened heart!

 

Bill

 

_____________________

Well looky here.  The H in Bill DHL™ is out in full force.  RP clearly stated what he was thinking, just like you do when you make massive posts that are full of cut and paste.

 

 

bill hypocrisy meter

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  • bill hypocrisy meter

The issue you keep dancing around, BeeG, is the fact that I keep pointing out in great detail the hypocrisy of your statements regarding the moral superiority of christians using the writings out of *your own bible.*

 

Remember BeeG?  The 'literal and inerrant' word of your god- that, according to your god's instructions- people are not supposed to add to or take away from??

 

These words are in YOUR book, bonehead.  

You can't deny them.

Anybody can look them up any time.

 

Quit sleazing around and answer the question, smart guy.

 

Tell me again why christians are sooooo morally superior to atheists?

 

They aren't.  You can't.

You have nothing.

Go sit in the corner, dumbass....

 

Last edited by Road Puppy

Wow! What an idiot that man is. Same old mess he has posted for years. Here you have a man who has admitted he had/probably still has to , 'interpret' for his wife because of her accent, and has stated when she and her friends speak to each other he can't understand them, making fun of a new york accent!! Wonder if he makes fun of the accents of the people in that church group he pretends to love so much? Add to that he's the same old man that puts words in his posts that were used by teen aged girls 30 or more years ago

Wow. I've always known of the murder, violence and barbaric behavior in the bible but seeing most of it all in one place is kinda re-shocking. Really makes you think. 

 

---------------------------

They will claim to be so upset and outraged at some of the things their children are allowed to read and are exposed to from the libraries, online, games, shows etc. or given to read in schools. Harry Potter, for one, puts their undies in a wad. But they will hand a child a bible, sometimes before the child can read, and urge the ones that can, to read it! I can't imagine a more messed up book for a child to read. Look how it messes up some adults.

 

Last edited by Bestworking

Puppy, my Friend,

 

In all your "Vic Styled" ramblings you suggest I answer your question -- but, you do not pose a question.

 

If you have A SPECIFIC question, a concise question, and can write it without rambling all over Noo Yawk -- lay it on me.   A question cannot be answered until it is asked.

 

Bless your little Noo Yawk heart!

 

Bill

Friends Request - Jesus - Rev 3-20

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Originally Posted by Bestworking:

But they will hand a child a bible, sometimes before the child can read, and urge the ones that can, to read it! I can't imagine a more messed up book for a child to read. Look how it messes up some adults.

_______

If God exist, I guess He knew what He was doing when He made sure the forum troll didn't procreate.

Originally Posted by Bill Gray:

Puppy, my Friend,

 

In all your "Vic Styled" ramblings you suggest I answer your question -- but, you do not pose a question.

 

If you have A SPECIFIC question, a concise question, and can write it without rambling all over Noo Yawk -- lay it on me.   A question cannot be answered until it is asked.

 

Bless your little Noo Yawk heart!

 

Bill

Friends Request - Jesus - Rev 3-20

===================

 

Somebody help this retard find the question I asked him to answer *twice* in this thread...

 

You know... The one where I asked him to "tell me again why christians are morally superior to atheists?"

 

That's pretty specific, but I'll break it down even further because he's apparently THAT dense.

 

Having shown you several examples of 'righteous, upstanding, morally superior christians' and also having pointed out scriptural examples (easily checked by anyone who has access to a bible) of your skydaddy's "more defned" ethical and moral code which condones mass-murder, slavery, rape, child-killing and abuse, revenge killing, pedophilia, and a host of other depraved behaviors that civilized society puts people in prison for-

 

 How is it that christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists?  

 

There, I even separated the SPECIFIC QUESTION from the rest of my post so you could find it easier.

 

I'll even ask it again because you're apparently unable to easily recognize written questions:

 

 

How is it, given the examples I've shown you, that christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists?

 

G'head.  I can't WAIT to see what kinda mental gymnastics you have to do to answer that one....

 





The thought of both  "Christians" and atheists being in Hell brings to mind an interesting question... Since those who are divorced and remarried at the time death are living in sin and destined for Hell, will all their wives be with them in Hell? Will the phrase "a living Hell" pertain? Just food for thought for some who have been divorced and troll this particular forum... 

 

quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Some atheists are morally and ethically superior to christians. Some christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists, but neither side has a lock on the other. There's going to be both christians and atheists in hell together.

Vic, my Friend,

 

Can YOU show us that in the Bible?   Or, is it, like most Roman Catholic doctrines, only found in the Apocrypha and Vatican writings?

 

If what you say is true -- then what was God's purpose in creating hell?  And why did Jesus Christ come to earth at the Incarnate God to die in our place?

 

Bless your heart!

 

Bill

Bible - 66 BOOKS

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Last edited by Bill Gray
Originally Posted by Road Puppy:
Somebody help this retard find the question I asked him to answer *twice* in this thread...

How is it that christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists? 

There, I even separated the SPECIFIC QUESTION from the rest of my post so you could find it easier.

I'll even ask it again because you're apparently unable to easily recognize written questions:

 

How is it, given the examples I've shown you, that christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists?

___________
You could repeat the question a dozen times & the ole fool still wouldn't answer it. Because he can't. Not w/o looking like a bigger liar than he already is.

 

Puppy, my Friend,

 

 Good, you have posed a reasonable and very good question.  You ask me:

 

How is it that Christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists? 

 

Actually that is not true in many cases.  I have known some Christians who were total jerks.  And, I have known many non-believers who really have it all together.

 

Being a Christian does not automatically make a person superior to anyone else.  But, my point is that a Christian has an established guideline, the Bible and Biblical teachings, to help him/her navigate toward a moral lifestyle.

 

While, the non-believer who discards the Bible and all Biblical teachings -- has only the secular society and its very broad moral values to guide him.  Secular society holds to a more Relativistic set of moral values, i.e., if it feels right to you -- it must be right.  Many folks have lost their way following this teaching of Relativism.

 

And, that aligns well with what I wrote in my earlier post:

 

Hi all,  I tend to agree with both Mr. Hoob and with Jennifer Best.   And, while I do not agree that a person is morally corrupt because he/she is an atheist or other non-believer -- I do think that, being a non-believer and not having the more defined ethical and moral guidelines provided by God in His Bible -- a person could tend to stray from the correct path.

 

I have seen the secular society's Relativistic moral values which is taught in all our public schools today -- produce generations of young people who have no respect for themselves or for others.

 

When I was in school, I never heard of a drive-by shooting or a school shooting.  Now, both are very common.  When I was in school, we had respect for our teachers and our elders.  I might not have liked a teacher -- but, I respected the position and gave respect to the person.  Today, most often we do not find that in our schools.

 

Why?  Because the secular society is setting the standards being taught in our schools -- and those generations since 1963 have drifted farther and farther from the moral guidelines of Positive Moral Values which used to be taught.

 

But, once again -- just because a person is a Christian does not make him/her superior to a non-believer.   However, he/she does have the guidelines in place to help him lead a better life.

 

I pray this answers your question.   It is nice having a civil dialogue with you.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

1 - Bible_Open-FAMILY-GROW

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Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Some atheists are morally and ethically superior to christians. Some christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists, but neither side has a lock on the other. There's going to be both christians and atheists in hell together.

Vic

 

Can YOU show us that in the Bible?   Or, is it, like most Roman Catholic doctrines, only found in the Apocrypha and Vatican writings?

 

If what you say is true -- then what was God's purpose in creating hell?  And why did Jesus Christ come to earth at the Incarnate God to die in our place?

 ---------------------------

Instead of blaming the Church Jesus created for everything you can't

explain and can't understand, why don't you tell me what YOU can't believe

about what I say above, billiiee............huh

 

 

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Some atheists are morally and ethically superior to christians. Some christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists, but neither side has a lock on the other. There's going to be both christians and atheists in hell together.

Vic

 

Can YOU show us that in the Bible?   Or, is it, like most Roman Catholic doctrines, only found in the Apocrypha and Vatican writings?

 

If what you say is true -- then what was God's purpose in creating hell?  And why did Jesus Christ come to earth at the Incarnate God to die in our place?

 ---------------------------

Instead of blaming the Church Jesus created for everything you can't

explain and can't understand, why don't you tell me what YOU can't believe

about what I say above, billiiee............huh

 

 

***********************************************

 

billiiee said,,,

Puppy, my Friend,

 You are getting to be almost as good at copy/pasting as my Friend, Vic.   Maybe if you will park that Noo Yawk toy you ride long enough -- you just might learn how to actually write YOUR OWN thoughts.

 

This is the reason billiiee changes the words of the Bible. He dreams up his

own erroneous interpretations to suit himself. That's actually called a lie, big lie.

 

****************************************

billiiee lied the following,,,,,,,

In all your "Vic Styled" ramblings you suggest I answer your question -- but, you do not pose a question.

 If you have A SPECIFIC question, a concise question, and can write it without rambling all over Noo Yawk -- lay it on me.   A question cannot be answered until it is asked.

 

billiiee never answers a question from you RP, from me or anyone else.

He'll keep asking for questions because he can't answer them. Then

he'll go into his obvious misdirection BS to kill more time so you will go

away. Another way of lying..............

 

quote:   Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
quote:  Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Some atheists are morally and ethically superior to christians. Some christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists, but neither side has a lock on the other. There's going to be both christians and atheists in hell together.

Vic, my Friend,  Can YOU show us that in the Bible?   Or, is it, like most Roman Catholic doctrines, only found in the Apocrypha and Vatican writings?

 

If what you say is true -- then what was God's purpose in creating hell?  And why did Jesus Christ come to earth at the Incarnate God to die in our place?


Instead of blaming the Church Jesus created for everything you can't explain and can't understand, why don't you tell me what YOU can't believe about what I say above, billiiee............huh 

 Vic, my Friend, 

 

In your post you tell us that, "There's going to be both christians and atheists in hell together." 

 

Please show us, in the Bible, where it tells us that Christian believers will be in hell.

 

Granted there will be many who have been wearing the Christian hat, but have not believed, who will join other non-believers in eternal hell.   But NOWHERE does the Bible say that true Christian believers will be in either Purgatory or Hell.

 

If you truly believe that -- and you pronounce yourself to be Roman Catholic educated in the Roman Catholic catechisms -- then, the only place you could have been misled into believing that is in the Roman Catholic church.  

 

That, or YOU do not believe what the Roman Catholic church teaches.  Which is it?  Did the Roman Catholic church teach YOU that Christian believers will be in hell?   Or, did you discard what that church has taught you and found another belief system?

 

Either way -- there will be no true CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS in hell.  That is reserved for Satan, his demonic angels, and ALL non-believers.   

 

Question for you.  Where will YOU spend eternity?

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

If You Died Today

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  • If You Died Today
Last edited by Bill Gray

billiiee never answers a question from you RP, from me or anyone else.

He'll keep asking for questions because he can't answer them. Then

he'll go into his obvious misdirection BS to kill more time so you will go

away. Another way of lying..............

 

Wish someone would answer this question-why does anyone care what bill thinks?

Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by INVICTUS:
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:  Originally Posted by INVICTUS:

Some atheists are morally and ethically superior to christians. Some christians are morally and ethically superior to atheists, but neither side has a lock on the other. There's going to be both christians and atheists in hell together.

Vic

 

Can YOU show us that in the Bible?   Or, is it, like most Roman Catholic doctrines, only found in the Apocrypha and Vatican writings?

 

If what you say is true -- then what was God's purpose in creating hell?  And why did Jesus Christ come to earth at the Incarnate God to die in our place?

 ---------------------------

Instead of blaming the Church Jesus created for everything you can't

explain and can't understand, why don't you tell me what YOU can't believe

about what I say above, billiiee............huh

 

 

***********************************************

 

billiiee said,,,

Puppy, my Friend,

 You are getting to be almost as good at copy/pasting as my Friend, Vic.   Maybe if you will park that Noo Yawk toy you ride long enough -- you just might learn how to actually write YOUR OWN thoughts.

 

This is the reason billiiee changes the words of the Bible. He dreams up his

own erroneous interpretations to suit himself. That's actually called a lie, big lie.

 

****************************************

billiiee lied the following,,,,,,,

In all your "Vic Styled" ramblings you suggest I answer your question -- but, you do not pose a question.

 If you have A SPECIFIC question, a concise question, and can write it without rambling all over Noo Yawk -- lay it on me.   A question cannot be answered until it is asked.

 

billiiee never answers a question from you RP, from me or anyone else.

He'll keep asking for questions because he can't answer them. Then

he'll go into his obvious misdirection BS to kill more time so you will go

away. Another way of lying..............

 

***************************************************************

 

So billiiee, I see you're dodging everyone's questions as always. And as

always your affection for my church is all you want to talk about. 

You always want me to show you something in the Bible, would you like

to see the part in the Bible where Jesus created my church..?? And then

you can disprove it, would you like to do that..??

 

  

Last edited by INVICTUS

The professor suggests that if people do not believe in God, they will not voluntarily obey the law. The video ends with the ominous observation, "If you take away religion, you can't hire enough police."

===============================

That's why I fly through redlights and stop signs, shoot people, take candy from babies, trip little old ladies, make fun of people's accents and rob 'quickie marts', cause there ain't no gawd.

Last edited by Bestworking

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