We didn't learn of the lien until the morning of closing. Tomorrow is the last day she has to correct the lien. I'll let you all who have given such thoughtful and intelligent incite know the outcome. Cowboy, well.....
My opinion based on 6 drinks of Seagrams 7 is that the contract you sighed along with the seller is the binding document. If it says all you have to provide is a willing buyer at the listed price, then yes, I would think you are owed a commission. If on the other hand the contract is contingent upon closing (ie the actual sale, transference of tidle, etc) then no, you are not.
Hard to comment if we dont' know all the dotted i
s and crossed t's of the contract.
Hard to comment if we dont' know all the dotted i
s and crossed t's of the contract.
One of my dozen or so jobs during grad school was working as a real estate salesperson. Would I have expected a commission under the circumstances you have described? Probably. It has been my experience that it all depends on the four corners of the contract you and your client both signed and agreed to. You can have anything you want, you just have to agree and get it in writing. In most cases your sole task as an agent is to bring a ready, willing, and able buyer to the seller. However, most agents will never sue to recover a commission because in a smaller market word gets around and you risk alienating your future customers, their families, and in essence trashing any referral business you might ever receive (which is money in the bank to an agent).
One more word about buying or selling your home from someone who has seen both sides of the coin....
I’ve never understood the reasons people offer for failing to consult an attorney before making the largest financial commitment of their lives. I saw it when I sold homes and unfortunately I see it now. Think about this…you will spend the next (in most cases) 30 years paying for the decisions you make at the closing table. PLEASE make certain that you have had a qualified professional take a look at your documents before making a commitment. Most agents that I know are not lawyers and are prohibited from answering legal questions. In most contracts it is stated in bold print that you have the right to your own legal representation. Yes, you can just show up at the closing and sign the papers. It's done every day. In a perfect world this might be fine. But, bad things still happen and you need to cover all the bases.
It has also been my experience that there are some that view anyone who might get in the way of the closing table as a "deal killer". If you feel hurried, pressured, or discouraged in any way from seeking wise counsel, just stop and take a deep breath. Look around at the big picture and ask yourself “what am I missing here?” Read the fine print. Whose interests are being protected? Who will this benefit? The decision is ultimately yours, but you should have all of the facts one way or the other to make an informed decision. If you do choose to go ahead, at least you will do so knowing all of the facts so that you might mitigate any negative factors.
You are about to purchase your most valuable asset. Do you know how to check the judgment liens and filings in each county and state against the property interest? Do you understand how to cure a title defect? Do you know how to look for tax liens? Easements? Encumbrances? Is there a state “R.O.W.” running through the back half of your property? What about restrictions? Zoning? Eminent domain? You are about to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new home. Spend a few hundred to make sure your interests are covered. Unless you have a contract that clearly states that the attorney represents you don't assume that just because one is at the closing table that he or she is there to guard your fiduciary interests. Make certain that you are represented. Bad things can happen and it will be well worth the miniscule fee (in comparison to the 4-6% the agent is about to pocket) to guard your interests and perhaps save you a ton of grief later if problems arise. Remember, “the big print giveth, the small print taketh away.”
One more word about buying or selling your home from someone who has seen both sides of the coin....
I’ve never understood the reasons people offer for failing to consult an attorney before making the largest financial commitment of their lives. I saw it when I sold homes and unfortunately I see it now. Think about this…you will spend the next (in most cases) 30 years paying for the decisions you make at the closing table. PLEASE make certain that you have had a qualified professional take a look at your documents before making a commitment. Most agents that I know are not lawyers and are prohibited from answering legal questions. In most contracts it is stated in bold print that you have the right to your own legal representation. Yes, you can just show up at the closing and sign the papers. It's done every day. In a perfect world this might be fine. But, bad things still happen and you need to cover all the bases.
It has also been my experience that there are some that view anyone who might get in the way of the closing table as a "deal killer". If you feel hurried, pressured, or discouraged in any way from seeking wise counsel, just stop and take a deep breath. Look around at the big picture and ask yourself “what am I missing here?” Read the fine print. Whose interests are being protected? Who will this benefit? The decision is ultimately yours, but you should have all of the facts one way or the other to make an informed decision. If you do choose to go ahead, at least you will do so knowing all of the facts so that you might mitigate any negative factors.
You are about to purchase your most valuable asset. Do you know how to check the judgment liens and filings in each county and state against the property interest? Do you understand how to cure a title defect? Do you know how to look for tax liens? Easements? Encumbrances? Is there a state “R.O.W.” running through the back half of your property? What about restrictions? Zoning? Eminent domain? You are about to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a new home. Spend a few hundred to make sure your interests are covered. Unless you have a contract that clearly states that the attorney represents you don't assume that just because one is at the closing table that he or she is there to guard your fiduciary interests. Make certain that you are represented. Bad things can happen and it will be well worth the miniscule fee (in comparison to the 4-6% the agent is about to pocket) to guard your interests and perhaps save you a ton of grief later if problems arise. Remember, “the big print giveth, the small print taketh away.”
farmguy, I'm sure you realize that REALTORs are bound by a certain code of ethics which holds a real estate licensee to a much higher standard than simply a person holding a license.
All licensed real estate agents are required to abide by the laws set forth by the Alabama Real Estate Commission's licensing board. Not all licensed agents are governed by the code of ethics that REALTORS are sworn to abide by.
If you and the broker who owns the property are both members of your local board of REALTORS, you should have a copy of this ethics policy. You have a right to file a grievance against the broker which may then be forwarded to the board's Professional Standard's Committee. That committee is capable of determining what wrong doing was committed and also awarding monetary settlements if applicable. The sales contracts provided by your local board also contain language specific to this code of ethics which is not found in an "office depot" or "internet" document with legal language for selling property.
Without hearing the other party's side of this, it is my opinion that the broker may have violated this code of ethics and you may be entitled to your commission. If that is determined and the broker refuses to cooperate by paying the commission, that broker would most likely lose their membership in the Board of Realtors. Of course at this point, there may be enough damage and humiliation that that broker may leave the area anyway. Either way you would be a winner. Either you collect the damages you are entitled to or there would be one less person damaging the integrity of our profession! If the broker isn't a member you may have learned a very valuable lesson about the importance of this association. If you aren't a member and committed to this standard, shame on you!
Good Luck!
REALTORS set a higher standard for business and no one should be allowed to tarnish this image we strive to preserve.
All licensed real estate agents are required to abide by the laws set forth by the Alabama Real Estate Commission's licensing board. Not all licensed agents are governed by the code of ethics that REALTORS are sworn to abide by.
If you and the broker who owns the property are both members of your local board of REALTORS, you should have a copy of this ethics policy. You have a right to file a grievance against the broker which may then be forwarded to the board's Professional Standard's Committee. That committee is capable of determining what wrong doing was committed and also awarding monetary settlements if applicable. The sales contracts provided by your local board also contain language specific to this code of ethics which is not found in an "office depot" or "internet" document with legal language for selling property.
Without hearing the other party's side of this, it is my opinion that the broker may have violated this code of ethics and you may be entitled to your commission. If that is determined and the broker refuses to cooperate by paying the commission, that broker would most likely lose their membership in the Board of Realtors. Of course at this point, there may be enough damage and humiliation that that broker may leave the area anyway. Either way you would be a winner. Either you collect the damages you are entitled to or there would be one less person damaging the integrity of our profession! If the broker isn't a member you may have learned a very valuable lesson about the importance of this association. If you aren't a member and committed to this standard, shame on you!
Good Luck!
REALTORS set a higher standard for business and no one should be allowed to tarnish this image we strive to preserve.
Hey Farmer,
I know a horse trader when I see one.
I still stand by what I said about bankers and house brokers: http://money.cnn.com/video/ft/#/video/fortune/2008/03/2...quest.busted.fortune
I know a horse trader when I see one.
I still stand by what I said about bankers and house brokers: http://money.cnn.com/video/ft/#/video/fortune/2008/03/2...quest.busted.fortune
For fear of insulting you Cowboy, I choose to remain mute. That means, I'm not gonna comment to you.
I will take this one Cowboy 35646, you have showed your stupidity on this sight. You have no reason to trash everyone on this post. Also Top Down Beemer could not have said it better about the mortgage brokers cause forclosures. I promise you if you where my customer I would not have but you in that situation without you know all of the that would take place when your rate began to change. Also, you have everything in black and white not only once but twice or maybe even more times before you signed on the dotted line. In addition you are explained the terms of your new mortgage on the day of closing by a third party and there is the option to walk away. I do not think there are very many times that someone did not know they got there self into an adjustable rate mortgage. Also, as for the stated loans the customers are the ones that gave there loan officers there income and most lied. So in short unless are sure of what you are saying you may want to back off until you can prove your facts.
No closing, and she has officially closed her real estate office. She won't answer her phone and is avoiding all involved. What's the next step
Facts you want then facts you'll get.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-03-2...gan-zippy-memo_N.htm
JPMorgan memo shows dirty tricks of mortgage trade
(Reuters) — An internal JPMorgan Chase (JPM) memo titled "Zippy Cheats & Tricks" offers a peek into just the sort of dubious lending tactics that underpinned the housing market's deepening downward spiral.
Originally obtained by reporters at The Oregonian newspaper, which published a story Thursday, the memo offers step-by-step instructions on how to beef up mortgage applicants' stated incomes in order to help them qualify for home loans.
The memo heading reads: Chase Mortgage Memo Pushes 'Cheats & Tricks'
They read as follows:
"1. Make sure you input all income in base income. DO NOT break it down by overtime, commissions or bonus.
2. If your borrower is getting a gift, add it to a bank account along with the rest of the assets. Be sure to remove any mention of gift funds.
3. If you do not get (the desired results), try resubmitting with slightly higher income. Inch it up $500 to see if you can get the findings you want. Do the same for assets."
JPMorgan says that these were the wayward actions of a rogue employee who has since been fired, and by no means represent company policy.
"Clearly it's nothing that we condone," said Tom Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase. "As soon as we learned about it, we stopped it."
Still, in the context of a broader housing debacle, the memo does provide some clues into just what lengths bankers went to push loans through the system.
Over the past six months, rising defaults on home loans have not only battered the mortgage sector, threatening recession, but also sent the banking industry into a tailspin.
Many large banks repackaged mortgages and held them on their balance sheets as complex derivatives securities, essentially bonds backed by other types of loans.
These developments have many politicians in Washington, including Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, calling for greater regulatory oversight.
The conclusion of the JPMorgan memo, written in bright purple letters, certainly hints at a credit system gone awry: "It's super easy! Give it a try!" it reads. "If you get stuck, call me ... I am happy to help!"
If you're saying "nobody would do such a thing" but why all the foreclosures?
cowboy
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/housing/2008-03-2...gan-zippy-memo_N.htm
JPMorgan memo shows dirty tricks of mortgage trade
(Reuters) — An internal JPMorgan Chase (JPM) memo titled "Zippy Cheats & Tricks" offers a peek into just the sort of dubious lending tactics that underpinned the housing market's deepening downward spiral.
Originally obtained by reporters at The Oregonian newspaper, which published a story Thursday, the memo offers step-by-step instructions on how to beef up mortgage applicants' stated incomes in order to help them qualify for home loans.
The memo heading reads: Chase Mortgage Memo Pushes 'Cheats & Tricks'
They read as follows:
"1. Make sure you input all income in base income. DO NOT break it down by overtime, commissions or bonus.
2. If your borrower is getting a gift, add it to a bank account along with the rest of the assets. Be sure to remove any mention of gift funds.
3. If you do not get (the desired results), try resubmitting with slightly higher income. Inch it up $500 to see if you can get the findings you want. Do the same for assets."
JPMorgan says that these were the wayward actions of a rogue employee who has since been fired, and by no means represent company policy.
"Clearly it's nothing that we condone," said Tom Kelly, a spokesman for JPMorgan Chase. "As soon as we learned about it, we stopped it."
Still, in the context of a broader housing debacle, the memo does provide some clues into just what lengths bankers went to push loans through the system.
Over the past six months, rising defaults on home loans have not only battered the mortgage sector, threatening recession, but also sent the banking industry into a tailspin.
Many large banks repackaged mortgages and held them on their balance sheets as complex derivatives securities, essentially bonds backed by other types of loans.
These developments have many politicians in Washington, including Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, calling for greater regulatory oversight.
The conclusion of the JPMorgan memo, written in bright purple letters, certainly hints at a credit system gone awry: "It's super easy! Give it a try!" it reads. "If you get stuck, call me ... I am happy to help!"
If you're saying "nobody would do such a thing" but why all the foreclosures?
cowboy
I realize some mortgage brokers have bent the rules to get some loans through. I realize some real estate agents have sold properties to clients who really couldn't afford them but the bottom line is.........the purchaser/borrower made the decision to go through with the loan. The payment amount was put in front of them in black an white, the terms of the loan whether fixed or adjustable were mentioned numerous times in their loan package and they had to sign that they accepted those terms numerous times. Perhaps the loans shouldn't have been made and the properties shouldn't have been purchased but the bottom line is that the consumer made that choice. A lender can't loan and an agent can't sell without a ready, willing and able buyer.
quote:Originally posted by farmguy:
No closing, and she has officially closed her real estate office. She won't answer her phone and is avoiding all involved. What's the next step
You could try to go after her, but is it worth the hassle? Can't get blood out of a turnip. Sounds like a lot of people would be in line in front of your judgement.
Trouble is exactly correct. A few bad loan officers have not caused the mess we are in and by Cowboy saying it is all the Mortgages Officers fault is a totally incorrect statement that I took personally. Again, I have never and will never do anything that would but me in any form of a bad position. If I have had foreclosures it is not something that I did to cause it.
quote:Originally posted by farmguy:
No closing, and she has officially closed her real estate office. She won't answer her phone and is avoiding all involved. What's the next step
Contact your Board of Realtors or the Alabama Real Estate Board/Commission/Department (what IS it called? Guess I should just google it)
That real estate broker/seller is in trouble and sounds like in more ways than one.
Hold you horses. I never said that this mortgage mess was all you house and mortgage brokers fault. I simply gave my opinion that house brokers have no checks and balances by being able to represent both a seller and a buyer of a house. This should not be allowed to happen under any circumstance. It only allows dishonestly to incubate and grow. Then ultimately help cause a financial fiasco like what we have today.
quote:Originally posted by cowboy35646:
Hold you horses. I never said that this mortgage mess was all you house and mortgage brokers fault. I simply gave my opinion that house brokers have no checks and balances by being able to represent both a seller and a buyer of a house. This should not be allowed to happen under any circumstance. It only allows dishonestly to incubate and grow. Then ultimately help cause a financial fiasco like what we have today.
There are a lot of checks and balances in the system. What you are referring to is called Limited Consensual Dual Agency, in which one agent represents both the buyer and seller, or two agents working under the same broker represent a buyer and a seller in the same transaction. Unless the situation is the latter, I always try to avoid going the dual agency route, simply because I then have to give up total allegience to my current client, and have limited allegience to both. What I prefer to do is keep my agency agreement with my current client, and then act as a transaction broker only to the other party involved, wherein I still represent my client wholly, but I can still handle the transaction for the other person in the deal. I always explain that if they do not feel comfortable with that, and they feel like they need their own representation, then they may choose to do so, and find another agent to represent them and their interests completely.
There are two important words though... It is limited, and it is consensual. All parties agree to it. Should one party not feel it is in their best interests, they may choose to find another agent. Its perfectly legal and ethical if done properly.
It sounds like you may have came across someone who was less than ethical and feel burned, which is understandable. There are several Realtors that I certainly wouldn't trust, but don't stereotype us all into that group. I'm certainly not that way, and there are many others that aren't either. You have to realize that they are all just people trying to make a living just like everyone else. They have families and bills to pay just like everyone else.
It is definately not in the seller OR buyers interest to have a dual agent.
This is "Classic", realtors er, Realty Professionals doing eachother. Gotta smile at this one. Though the "Best" is when one Lawyer does another and if they happen to all do eachother who could ask for more.
Thanks for making my day.
Thanks for making my day.
quote:Originally posted by Quarrles:
This is "Classic", realtors er, Realty Professionals doing eachother. Gotta smile at this one. Though the "Best" is when one Lawyer does another and if they happen to all do eachother who could ask for more.
Thanks for making my day.
Well, you're for sure IRRITATING...unfortunately, you're irritating some of us who AREN'T old or codgers. So, why don't you shoo - go away - and bother people on another forum. Your comment was a thinly veiled and crude insult.
Just wanted to let everyone who was curious enough to tread on this thread, we are going to close....She got the lien released from the IRS and we will close on Friday. Just wanted to thank everyone who commented, I think we all learned a thing or two on this deal. MAKE SURE SELLER CAN SELL!!!!!!!!!
True, but how can you do that? Doesn't the title company find all that out? Maybe they do, but do they find out too late in the game? Maybe write in the contract that the seller has disclosed any and all liens on the property?
Glad you are getting to close!!!
Glad you are getting to close!!!
used to when you was going to buy a house they wanted you to put up what they call "earnest money" usually about $500.00 and if you backed out you lost your money
Moody, before you list or get a buyer to interested in the property I would check with the title company. In todays world with foreclosures, short sales, etc., the seller may be embarrased by their circumstances and forget to tell you their situation... Which can cause alot of grief to everyone involved. Thanks Again,
Prince,
We did put earnest money down but you'll have to read the rest of the thread because that has no bearing on this deal....
Prince,
We did put earnest money down but you'll have to read the rest of the thread because that has no bearing on this deal....
Glad to hear that this seems to have resolved itself positively for all involved! Good luck on future ventures. 
Thx Top Down... you too!
I'm a Broker of a Real Estate Company. As you may know this is a cut throat business. If I was selling my own property I would have paid the Realtor the commission. I have flipped houses were the selling realtor made more than I did but I didn't cut his commission. That's kind of like a Realtor putting a FSBO sign in the yard. Your stepping on your own feet. On the other hand for myself I try to take the money out of the picture. You treat your clients with sincerety and the money will take care of itself ten fold. Also make sure you only explain the options to your buyer don't give them advice as it states in our contract. We as Realtors don't have the right to give legal advice. It's a long process through arbitration. It's a buyers market...find them another home!
Broker
Broker
not a buyer's market in our area. The larger cities where the bubble has burst have a buyer's market. We have a seller's market and seller's are getting better prices for their properties than before. The average sales price has remained stable to increasing for the past several quarters. With the increase in foreclosures to tilt the scales, our increase in sales price is minimal compared to what it could be. Days on market have decreased in the past 12-24 months as well.
According to what I was taught in real estate salesperson class, you are owed a commission for providing a ready, able and willing buyer. Unfortunately, though, a real estate career is, in large part, built on good will, networking and favorable word of mouth. Most people don't understand how difficult and (sometimes) financially desolate the job of a realtor is, and don't seem to have much compassion for realtors, in general. I would ask myself, 'Is going after this commission worth the bad feelings it will cause?' Since the seller is a broker, she knows you are entitled to a commission. If she is resisting paying it, and concealed the material fact of an IRS lien, she is not reputable or honorable, and is probably the type to bad mouth you to everyone she can. At least some of those people will believe her. I would say cut your losses, avoid the harm this broker could cause your career, learn from this and in the future write all offers with enough contingencies to protect you AND your buyer!