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Baby versus Embryo

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LMMLMMOld Faithful
Well, since I cannot put the baby on top of the freezer and carry out all, the baby. It is a living breathing human being. The embryos are potential life but not there yet. An embryo can be naturally aborted in the first few weeks, so we cannot say that an embryo is a human. As for life begins as conception, potential life begins at conception inside the mother's body. I see this as different which I know will have me blasted. My view.
Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
Hi Skeptik,

I guess you did not like my poll -- because you had it deleted.

But, that is okay. For it was done just to show the biased and narrow minded approach of your polls.

Your polls are no different than one which asks, of anyone: Do you still beat your wife? YES or NO?

But, because that question was tilted one way; it was deleted. just as well. For, as I said, it was done just to show how silly your polls tend to be.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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Bill GrayBill GrayOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
Yes, they are life like a bacteria. They are capable of growing, in a privileged environment, but they are entirely unconscious.

I chose the baby, for the simple reason that a fully formed human has more rights than a potential, unformed human. DF

Hi Deep,

You may be bacteria; you may be an unformed human; you may have descended from an ape. Claim whatever origin you want for yourself.

However, an embryo is a life begun -- and you, nor anyone else, has the right to destroy it.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

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C CookeyPost Master
quote:
I guess you did not like my poll -- because you had it deleted.


Yes, Bill, I am the omnipotent leader of this forum and can WILL entire threads out of existence. You are wise to recognize my powah. Kneel before me.

How about answering the question: Which one would you save? The thousand children or the one child?
BraylanBraylanHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
what is the smallest single living cell in a male human body?


Sperm-but what difference does that make?

p.s. I, of course, picked the baby


***

The difference it makes is this... Many times people argue that a fetus in the womb which is scheduled to be soon aborted is not alive or doesn't deserve the opportunity to grow and be born..

But you and science have inadvertantly answered the question already about when a child is alive? It is at conception and actually somewhat before...

For a single small sperm cell is a living organism. LIVING is the key word here!

without this LIVING cell there would be no LIFE.

***

But to answer the question asked.... I would try and be a hero and save all the living.... you see if the Baby and potential babies are beside each other then I can grab the baby with one arm and try and get as much of the rest with the other arm.

Thats my view and I'm sticking to it.
Braylan
D DEENALYNNEHall of Famer
To me it would be like walking into a burning building with 1001 babies there. You could not save them all. Just get as many out as possible. An embryo and a baby are BOTH human lives. I have been pregnant 4 times and lost 2 of those babies. Believe me, they were babies. They all 4 had hearts that were beating and their bodies were growing. They were alive. 2 of them died before they were born. They were all babies though!
FiredancerFiredancerPost Master
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
what is the smallest single living cell in a male human body?


Sperm-but what difference does that make?

p.s. I, of course, picked the baby


***

The difference it makes is this... Many times people argue that a fetus in the womb which is scheduled to be soon aborted is not alive or doesn't deserve the opportunity to grow and be born..

But you and science have inadvertantly answered the question already about when a child is alive? It is at conception and actually somewhat before...

For a single small sperm cell is a living organism. LIVING is the key word here!

without this LIVING cell there would be no LIFE.

***

But to answer the question asked.... I would try and be a hero and save all the living.... you see if the Baby and potential babies are beside each other then I can grab the baby with one arm and try and get as much of the rest with the other arm.

Thats my view and I'm sticking to it.
Braylan


I can appreciate your view. I now have a question that is likely to get me in trouble but I'll ask as polite as possible.
Braylan, have you ever "helped yourself out", so to speak? Please don't answer out loud as that is too much info but just think about it. If you have-that's millions of living organisms that are killed...potential babies that are killed.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
Braylan, have you ever "helped yourself out", so to speak? Please don't answer out loud as that is too much info but just think about it. If you have-that's millions of living organisms that are killed...potential babies that are killed.

An excellent point and one that will affect only the daddies who were left out of all these discussions. Potential human beings down the toilet. Gentlemen?
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
L, please.

Have you ever ovulated without giving the poor egg the chance to join it's masculine counterpart?

Such silly questions. Click the link above.

DF

LOL DF. Love the video.

The point remains, if the embryos are as important as the baby, then self relief would be killing children. A woman using birth control pills would also be guilty of murder, since that prevents implantation. You and I both saw it the same way, the baby is here, the embryos are potential children.
D DeepFatOld Faithful
quote:
The point remains, if the embryos are as important as the baby, then self relief would be killing children. A woman using birth control pills would also be guilty of murder,


I would like to think that even ChristoBiologists would recognize the difference between an unrequited reproduction cell with half the chromosomes of any other cell in the body and a zygote. I admit I'm constantly amazed by their illogic.

Regarding your second point, you are right, from the extreme point of view that the zygote has a soul. Madness.

DF
BraylanBraylanHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
what is the smallest single living cell in a male human body?


Sperm-but what difference does that make?

p.s. I, of course, picked the baby


***

The difference it makes is this... Many times people argue that a fetus in the womb which is scheduled to be soon aborted is not alive or doesn't deserve the opportunity to grow and be born..

But you and science have inadvertantly answered the question already about when a child is alive? It is at conception and actually somewhat before...

For a single small sperm cell is a living organism. LIVING is the key word here!

without this LIVING cell there would be no LIFE.

***

Thats my view and I'm sticking to it.
Braylan


I can appreciate your view. I now have a question that is likely to get me in trouble but I'll ask as polite as possible.
Braylan, have you ever "helped yourself out", so to speak? Please don't answer out loud as that is too much info but just think about it. If you have-that's millions of living organisms that are killed...potential babies that are killed.


***

Please re-read what I have wrote; I said (But you and science have inadvertantly answered the question already about when a child is alive? It is at CONCEPTION and actually somewhat before...)

Notice the word I inserted in my original post. CONCEPTION..... and then the other safety-net word I used was somewhat...

***

You see science can not logically argue that the following point is not true. For at the moment a sperm cell enters an egg and fertilizes it.. living cell has begun to take on a whole new meaning of a living organism! It now has become Life!

This is my view and I am sticking to it.
Braylan
BraylanBraylanHall of Famer
sex ed 101:

When a man and woman get together sexually they do so to have either pleasure or a baby. Both men and women have reproductive organs... Women have what is called a v****a and men have a p***s. The male species have a single tiny cell that clings to millions of other single tiny cells called sperm. This sperm swims to the egg during intercourse and attempts to impregnate the egg.

Now before the egg is fertilized the egg is just an egg and up until the sperm penetrates the egg... the sperm is just spermatozoa or seminal fluid. But obviously because God made us to procreate this way... The egg is a potential baby and the sperm cells are potential babies...

But not until actual fertilization or conception as it is also known to be called is it actually a baby. New life does not begin until CONCEPTION.

As for your question.... It comes down to Intent... If you intend on getting pregnant and you do something to inhibit the process then yes it is killing babies... According to God; in the story of Onan in the Old Testament. Link

This is my view and I'm sticking to it.
Braylan
Last edited by Braylan
D DeepFatOld Faithful
That passage Braylan linked reads like a Monty Python sketch.

Judah got a wife for his firstborn, Er. Er must have been exceedingly ugly, since he could not get himself a wife. Either that, or the women he knew walked around him with their pinky fingers in the air. But something. He was no prize.

The babe's name was Tamar, short for Tamara, and she was cute. Her sister, LaQueesha, was prettier, but already married to one of the Noah boys.

Anyway, Er and Tamar get hitched, but immediately thereafter, god decides Er is wicked, and kills him. I can hear god saying "It's just not RIGHT that ugly ol' Er marry such a babe. Off with his head". Tamar was a widow and a frustrated newlywed.

Judah, meddling father-in-law, hooks up Tamar with Onan. Onan objected, since he was seeing an Amelekite babe who had been on the gymnastics team, but Judah told him servicing Tamar was his family duty. This is proof that Judah needed the Purple Pill, or he would have done the duties himself.

Onan complied with his dad, many times. The verse says "whenever" he laid with Tamar, so it sounds like they weren't exactly going steady, more like brother-in-law with privileges. But Onan was a kinkster, and practiced safe sex, planned parenthood, and was a Republican who didn't want to see another single mom and her kid on the tribe's dole.

So god killed him.

And Tamar was sad. And Judah was sad that god had killed his two sons, and is quoted as saying "Feh". And the Amelekite babe didn't much care, by now she was dancing at the Brass Ass and was getting tired of men altogether.

DF
BraylanBraylanHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFat:
That passage Braylan linked reads like a Monty Python sketch.

Judah got a wife for his firstborn, Er. Er must have been exceedingly ugly, since he could not get himself a wife. Either that, or the women he knew walked around him with their pinky fingers in the air. But something. He was no prize.

The babe's name was Tamar, short for Tamara, and she was cute. Her sister, LaQueesha, was prettier, but already married to one of the Noah boys.

Anyway, Er and Tamar get hitched, but immediately thereafter, god decides Er is wicked, and kills him. I can hear god saying "It's just not RIGHT that ugly ol' Er marry such a babe. Off with his head". Tamar was a widow and a frustrated newlywed.

Judah, meddling father-in-law, hooks up Tamar with Onan. Onan objected, since he was seeing an Amelekite babe who had been on the gymnastics team, but Judah told him servicing Tamar was his family duty. This is proof that Judah needed the Purple Pill, or he would have done the duties himself.

Onan complied with his dad, many times. The verse says "whenever" he laid with Tamar, so it sounds like they weren't exactly going steady, more like brother-in-law with privileges. But Onan was a kinkster, and practiced safe sex, planned parenthood, and was a Republican who didn't want to see another single mom and her kid on the tribe's dole.

So god killed him.

And Tamar was sad. And Judah was sad that god had killed his two sons, and is quoted as saying "Feh". And the Amelekite babe didn't much care, by now she was dancing at the Brass Ass and was getting tired of men altogether.

DF


DF,

You should write theatricals. Amusing.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:
But if you intend on getting pregnant why would you do something to stop it?


Well there we have a conundrum; now don't we.

No, you do. If I take birth control pills because I cannot afford to feed and house 50 kids, you are telling me that I am committing murder for all those lost babies. If I have the good sense to not have more children than I can take care of, I am committing a sin.
Ludicrous!
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
Onan complied with his dad, many times. The verse says "whenever" he laid with Tamar, so it sounds like they weren't exactly going steady, more like brother-in-law with privileges. But Onan was a kinkster, and practiced safe sex, planned parenthood, and was a Republican who didn't want to see another single mom and her kid on the tribe's dole.

So god killed him.

I think God killed him for wasting his seed on the ground. Bad Onan. I guess he missed.
BraylanBraylanHall of Famer
quote:
Originally posted by LMM:
quote:
Originally posted by Braylan:
quote:
Originally posted by Firedancer:
But if you intend on getting pregnant why would you do something to stop it?


Well there we have a conundrum; now don't we.

No, you do. If I take birth control pills because I cannot afford to feed and house 50 kids, you are telling me that I am committing murder for all those lost babies. If I have the good sense to not have more children than I can take care of, I am committing a sin.
Ludicrous!


You can take care of them..... The folks which live in Tenn. have babies up until they are old and gray.... What are they called? Amish or Mennonites?

They have no problem taking care of babies and they do not even have electricity. Go figure.
LMMLMMOld Faithful
quote:
You can take care of them..... The folks which live in Tenn. have babies up until they are old and gray.... What are they called? Amish or Mennonites?

They have no problem taking care of babies and they do not even have electricity. Go figure.

The ENTIRE community takes care of them. I do not have that luxury. How many do you have Braylan? Are you going to be like the Duggars and keep going until the last one dies or the mom's body finally gives out?
I know that are some people better suited to be a mom than I, my husband and I decided after two, it was enough. The quality of care should also be a factor, not just mass production.
Z zippadeedoodahOld Faithful
quote:
Onan complied with his dad, many times. The verse says "whenever" he laid with Tamar, so it sounds like they weren't exactly going steady, more like brother-in-law with privileges. But Onan was a kinkster, and practiced safe sex, planned parenthood, and was a Republican who didn't want to see another single mom and her kid on the tribe's dole.

So god killed him.


God killed him for disobedience. God wanted his bloodline; Onan wanted a bit of sport with no child support payments, I guess. This is one of the passages that has led to the destructive philosophy of "fornication for procreation only", rather than for good, clean, healthy fun.
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