Okay, now I understand. Unfortunately, zipp is right in that the use of the word "beatings" is disingenous on the part of those who have a liberal agenda they are pushing. If any of these people had been around when I was getting one of my weekly spankings, they would probably have called it a beating, despite the fact that there were never any bruises - except to my pride. Beating a child, regardless of age, to the point where there is bruising, bleeding or brain damage IS unacceptable and should be punished to the fullest extent but sadly, most myopic liberals can't seem to discern the difference between a beating and a spanking.
I have noticed an increasing trend of reports of children being killed at the hands of their parents or a guardian.
That really sickens and saddens me. How could a parent do that? I wish more studies could be done into the psyche of these people. To kill the child you care for is just cold-blooded. Why do they feel they can hurt their child? Is anyone else bothered by this?
That really sickens and saddens me. How could a parent do that? I wish more studies could be done into the psyche of these people. To kill the child you care for is just cold-blooded. Why do they feel they can hurt their child? Is anyone else bothered by this?
Look at the ages of the parents who are killing their children. You'll find they were brought up in this "permissive" era. I'd wager they were never held accountable for their actions because some idiot psychologist told their parents they were simply expressing themselves in an assertive manner, or other such claptrap.
People who murder their children deserve the death penalty. If you looked into their psyches, you'd only see blackness. Many years ago, I testified in a case that resulted in a man being sent to death row in Florida for killing a child. I have been disturbed by that in ways you cannot even contemplate.
People who murder their children deserve the death penalty. If you looked into their psyches, you'd only see blackness. Many years ago, I testified in a case that resulted in a man being sent to death row in Florida for killing a child. I have been disturbed by that in ways you cannot even contemplate.
Each child is different. Each child will require a different level of discipline. A stern look may be all it takes for some. A spanking and time out may be required by others. No psychologist or study can accurately predict the level of discipline each and every child will need.
The determination of the appropriate level of discipline requires an on site evaluation...not a committee concensus from afar.
The determination of the appropriate level of discipline requires an on site evaluation...not a committee concensus from afar.
Folks,
Beat the **** out of your kids. It works! My parents did it to us. My oldest brother has a PhD. My middle brother has a master's and I have an engineering degree. Again, it works!!! Whip their _____!
Beat the **** out of your kids. It works! My parents did it to us. My oldest brother has a PhD. My middle brother has a master's and I have an engineering degree. Again, it works!!! Whip their _____!
quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:
What correlation? Your responce is an emotional rant grounded in no statistics. Provide a specific area grounded in fact and present a logical correlation. If the evidence backs you up this should be no problem.
It's my hypothesis, and I believe that it is intuitively obvious to even the casual observer. If you can't see it, perhaps you should get out more. Have there been correlation studies done? Who knows; likely none without some sort of socio-political agenda. Or are you one of those who dismisses observations or anecdotes that don't fit your particular political persuasion by screaming "Where's the evidence!" in a loud, whiny voice?
Or you might posit your own hypothesis for why our society is different now than it was forty years ago. That is, if you've taken sufficient trips around the sun to even realize that it is different. You can't take the societal changes over the past four decades and blame them on Bush.
quote:Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:
What correlation? Your responce is an emotional rant grounded in no statistics. Provide a specific area grounded in fact and present a logical correlation. If the evidence backs you up this should be no problem.
It's my hypothesis, and I believe that it is intuitively obvious to even the casual observer. If you can't see it, perhaps you should get out more. Have there been correlation studies done? Who knows; likely none without some sort of socio-political agenda. Or are you one of those who dismisses observations or anecdotes that don't fit your particular political persuasion by screaming "Where's the evidence!" in a loud, whiny voice?
Or you might posit your own hypothesis for why our society is different now than it was forty years ago. That is, if you've taken sufficient trips around the sun to even realize that it is different. You can't take the societal changes over the past four decades and blame them on Bush.
The only reason you criticize my asking you to present evidence is because you don't have any to present (Who is really doing the whining?). Also, why are you bring President Bush into this does he tie in to this?
I am very much aware of my surrounding seemingly more so than you. I do know to have a hypothesis you have to have some evidence to back it up otherwise you are simply arguing ignorance. Also, blaming a particular political view for all the problems you are listing is oversimplified and quite uninformed.
If liberal thinking is the force behind crime/moral demise then how do you explain other wealthy nations in the west who have much more liberal social and political stances but much lower crime rates. And I am not a "liberal."
Have you ever noticed that when the right wingers criticize evidence you bring forth, they come back with that's a liberal view or web site? If a right winger doesn't agree with your views, he or she will use the liberal thing as an excuse to back out and not carry on the debate because they know you are right. The same folks attack pogo on every post and use the liberal attack to bail out. The liberal attack is old and worn out by the right wing talk shows and the right wingers that listen to their propaganda and spin.
quote:Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Have you ever noticed that when the right wingers criticize evidence you bring forth, they come back with that's a liberal view or web site? If a right winger doesn't agree with your views, he or she will use the liberal thing as an excuse to back out and not carry on the debate because they know you are right. The same folks attack pogo on every post and use the liberal attack to bail out. The liberal attack is old and worn out by the right wing talk shows and the right wingers that listen to their propaganda and spin.
It's not the conservative's fault that liberals try to use fairy tales from make believe websites to prove their points, instead of hard evidence.
Rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts...although liberals would like you to believe they are.
quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Have you ever noticed that when the right wingers criticize evidence you bring forth, they come back with that's a liberal view or web site? If a right winger doesn't agree with your views, he or she will use the liberal thing as an excuse to back out and not carry on the debate because they know you are right. The same folks attack pogo on every post and use the liberal attack to bail out. The liberal attack is old and worn out by the right wing talk shows and the right wingers that listen to their propaganda and spin.
It's not the conservative's fault that liberals try to use fairy tales from make believe websites to prove their points, instead of hard evidence.
Rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts...although liberals would like you to believe they are.
Got news for ya; Both parties do this and anyone who doesn't see this is walking around with their eyes shut.
quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Have you ever noticed that when the right wingers criticize evidence you bring forth, they come back with that's a liberal view or web site? If a right winger doesn't agree with your views, he or she will use the liberal thing as an excuse to back out and not carry on the debate because they know you are right. The same folks attack pogo on every post and use the liberal attack to bail out. The liberal attack is old and worn out by the right wing talk shows and the right wingers that listen to their propaganda and spin.
It's not the conservative's fault that liberals try to use fairy tales from make believe websites to prove their points, instead of hard evidence.
Rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts...although liberals would like you to believe they are.
Got news for ya; Both parties do this and anyone who doesn't see this is walking around with their eyes shut.
Got news for you. Convince the liberals that haunt this forum of that and you can win the Nobel prize.
quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Have you ever noticed that when the right wingers criticize evidence you bring forth, they come back with that's a liberal view or web site? If a right winger doesn't agree with your views, he or she will use the liberal thing as an excuse to back out and not carry on the debate because they know you are right. The same folks attack pogo on every post and use the liberal attack to bail out. The liberal attack is old and worn out by the right wing talk shows and the right wingers that listen to their propaganda and spin.
It's not the conservative's fault that liberals try to use fairy tales from make believe websites to prove their points, instead of hard evidence.
Rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts...although liberals would like you to believe they are.
Got news for ya; Both parties do this and anyone who doesn't see this is walking around with their eyes shut.
Got news for you. Convince the liberals that haunt this forum of that and you can win the Nobel prize.
Question for you since you proposed liberals need convincing of the above statement.
"As a conservative are you aware that both parties do this?"The exclusivity which amounts to an "us vs. them" mentality is bad for all parties involved both liberal and conservative.
quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by JJPAUL:
Have you ever noticed that when the right wingers criticize evidence you bring forth, they come back with that's a liberal view or web site? If a right winger doesn't agree with your views, he or she will use the liberal thing as an excuse to back out and not carry on the debate because they know you are right. The same folks attack pogo on every post and use the liberal attack to bail out. The liberal attack is old and worn out by the right wing talk shows and the right wingers that listen to their propaganda and spin.
It's not the conservative's fault that liberals try to use fairy tales from make believe websites to prove their points, instead of hard evidence.
Rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts...although liberals would like you to believe they are.
Got news for ya; Both parties do this and anyone who doesn't see this is walking around with their eyes shut.
Got news for you. Convince the liberals that haunt this forum of that and you can win the Nobel prize.
Question for you since you proposed liberals need convincing of the above statement.
"As a conservative are you aware that both parties do this?"The exclusivity which amounts to an "us vs. them" mentality is bad for all parties involved both liberal and conservative.
You're attempting to twist my words to suit your own purposes, and I won't allow it. My quote is above. Read it word for word, and accept it for what it is, not what you want it to say.
quote:Convince the liberals that haunt this forum of that (that being: rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts) and and you can win the Nobel prize.
Now, I challenge you to find one of my posts where I used rumor, gossip or innuendo to support my opinion.
quote:You're attempting to twist my words to suit your own purposes, and I won't allow it. My quote is above. Read it word for word, and accept it for what it is, not what you want it to say.
quote:
Convince the liberals that haunt this forum of that (that being: rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts) and and you can win the Nobel prize.
Now, I challenge you to find one of my posts where I used rumor, gossip or innuendo to support my opinion.
I've not said anything about your posts. As far as my purposes go... I really have none except stating the obvious. My comment was that conservatives and liberals both (at times) use shotty arguments to support their platforms.
Perhaps we are talking past each other.
My point is folks who spout back these canned platforms both liberal and conservative would do well to weigh the evidence themselves instead of simply towing a party's line.
It, this topic, should be entitled conservative baiting because that's just what it is. Kind of surprised that you went on this Socialists trolling expedition. Time and time again this poster copies ideas, because they have no original thoughts, and several go on this wagon ride. As Arte Shaw said on the old Laugh In TV show " very interesting, but dumb".
quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:Originally posted by Sassy Kims:quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:Originally posted by Howard Roark:
JJP,
As I posted earlier, the traditional methods did work at the middle of the last century. As the liberal alternative has demonstratively not worked! What is your alternative?
Crime rates may have been lower but it wasn't due to frequency of corporal punishment: Results from a study about corporal punishment (sixty years of data):
http://www.stophitting.com/disathome/effectsOfCP.php
Among findings on corporal punishment research:
Physical punishment, when administered regularly, increases antisocial behavior such as lying, stealing, cheating, bullying, assaulting a sibling or peers, and lack of remorse for wrongdoing.
Physical punishment increases the risk of child abuse.
Physical punishment serves as a model for aggressive behavior and for inappropriate ways of dealing with conflict.
Physical punishment erodes trust between a parent and child.
Physical punishment adversely affects cognitive development.
Adults who were hit frequently as children are likely to suffer from depression and other negative social and mental health outcomes.
I could be a model to refute that study. Every point is incorrect, and I and my siblings were all disciplined as children...as were most all my acquaintances. Very few of them exhibit ANY of the traits your study claims.
Not my study and to be frank I am a bit surprised with the findings. Of course there are exceptions to the rule but the fact that neither you nor your siblings exhibit any of these traits( and there is a chance you are not aware of problems in your siblings lives. I know from experience folks are good at putting on a happy face. It is the sugar coated southern way. I am not saying your family does but all families have problems and most experience major problems at some point.) does not refute a sixty year study. Point is the study showed higher rates of these traits among children who received corporal punishment. I will have to check the stats but I believe in Japan and in most progressive western nations there is a positive correlation between crime and corporal punishment. Progressive nations that spank less have less crime.
Are there others factors contributing to these problems? Maybe. Probably.
You like most people (myself included) in the bible belt were raised with the "spare the rod..." notion of discipline and tend to see it as effective. The stats however disagree.
Me too Sassy Kims. My brother and I are not violent, do not resort to violence as a solution to problems, and we are not criminals.
Responsible, smonsible. Anyone with just a pea size bit of sense knows very well the difference between spanking and beating or other physical abuse.
quote:Originally posted by zippadeedoodah:
How about a wooden spoon?
And the term "beating" is completely disingenuous. It is emotionally-loaded and not descriptive of spankings. But it's the sort of thing I've come to expect.
However, the question remains. Since the nanny state liberal philosophies of child rearing and child correction have appeared to have failed so miserably, what is your alternative? Veiled threats are not an answer.
Or Flyswatters. Or old belts. I was sent out to get my own switches. God help me if I didn't get a good one, my spanking would have been worse.
quote:Originally posted by Top Down Beemer:quote:Originally posted by JJPAUL:quote:Originally posted by Howard Roark:
JJP,
As I posted earlier, the traditional methods did work at the middle of the last century. As the liberal alternative has demonstratively not worked! What is your alternative?
What is your alternative? Howard I don't think you would want me to catch you beating your kid with a pvc pipe.
TV shows back in the 50's and 60's tried to educate parents how to talk to their children and have communications at home. These shows were conservative family shows like for example "Leave it to Beaver and Father knows Best." Some parents were educated by those shows and some were not.
Hello??? Is anybody home where you are JJ??? That was TV, you know - make believe, occasionally improbable and completely phony! For God's sake, what mother even back then really glided around her house cooking, doing laundry and vacuuming in a fancy crinoline dress, heels and pearls????? REAL LIFE is and was much messier and much less utopist than those idyllic and highly formulaic family shows of the 50's and 60's. I wasn't born until 1965 so my parents were still kids when those shows were airing and my mother's family didn't even have a TV until she was out of high school. Father Knows Best ran from 1954 - 1960 and Leave It to Beaver ran from 1957 - 1963. I can't remember my parents ever watching either show on our little B/W TV. I can remember watching Leave It to Beaver in syndication when I was in junior high school and thinking it was dumb. Your argument that "some parents were educated by those shows" doesn't really hold water for anyone of my generation because OUR parents didn't have us while these shows were being aired and as you say "targeted" to educate parents.
For your information, MY parents didn't NEED a TV show to tell them how to communicate with me or my sister. They opened their mouths, words came out and we obeyed or didn't. If we did, everything was fine - if we didn't, then we suffered the consequences up to and including spanking. Neither of us turned into a serial killer, a sociopath or damaged in any other way because of this. We are happy, well adjusted, gainfully employed and productive members of society. We OWE it all to our parents who WEREN'T afraid to discipline us when we needed it.
I'm right there with ya!
quote:Originally posted by Quarrles:
It, this topic, should be entitled conservative baiting because that's just what it is. Kind of surprised that you went on this Socialists trolling expedition. Time and time again this poster copies ideas, because they have no original thoughts, and several go on this wagon ride. As Arte Shaw said on the old Laugh In TV show " very interesting, but dumb".
Looks like you took the bait too. Your original ideas are?
quote:Crime rates may have been lower but it wasn't due to frequency of corporal punishment: Results from a study about corporal punishment (sixty years of data):
The purpose of my original post was to show evidence that using corporal punishment does not decrease crime. I provided evidence and with the exception of T.S.C. who provided stats from a study that refuted the one I linked it has pretty much boiled down to defensive, subjective and emotional arguments.
On a personal note since I am a beliver in personal liberties unless someone is beating their children I couldn't care less.
quote:Originally posted by daniel16215:quote:You're attempting to twist my words to suit your own purposes, and I won't allow it. My quote is above. Read it word for word, and accept it for what it is, not what you want it to say.
quote:
Convince the liberals that haunt this forum of that (that being: rumor, gossip and innuendo are not facts) and and you can win the Nobel prize.
Now, I challenge you to find one of my posts where I used rumor, gossip or innuendo to support my opinion.
I've not said anything about your posts. As far as my purposes go... I really have none except stating the obvious. My comment was that conservatives and liberals both (at times) use shotty arguments to support their platforms.
Perhaps we are talking past each other.
My point is when folks who spout back these canned platforms both liberal and conservative would do well to weigh the evidence themselves instead of simply towing a party's line.
Daniel,
I can't answer for each and every person in the world who appears to be a conservative, any more than I would presume to answer for any liberals. I myself don't post items as news unless they're from a source that can be cross referenced to other sources. Opinions I will post from conservative sites, but news I will not.
I do agree with your last line...weigh the eveidence yourself.