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I'm moderate, but lately I feel like searching for a party that is different than our current choices.
There's democrats, republicans, libertarians, tea party, Green Party.
I don't like the idea of aligning with a political party and then wearing a label, but I'm not happy as a moderate anymore.

I'm:
Prolife
Anti-death penalty
Want welfare reform.
I want a strong military
Medicaid reform (it's rediculously unfair)
Ban GMO food
Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.
I won't bore you with my entire list.

Please tell me if you are a democrat, why?
Are you currently happy with our president?

If you're a republican, why?
What do you want in the next republican nominee....

And so on.....

consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22)

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I'm a Democratic Socialist, vote Democratic

 

I'm certainly not "pro death" which would make me "pro life"  , but for the mislabeling most people use to the word "pro life" : I am pro choice. I don't think it is anybody's business what a woman decides to do in that situation. Not my place, not your place, and for sure, not the government's place.  Pro choice is actually "pro freedom" and after all, isn't that what we are supposed to be all about ?

I have in recent years come to be against the death penalty , although I sat on a jury that sent a man to death row.

I probably don't like welfare any more than Jennifer, but what I want is truth about it, instead of all the FB  "share" crap that is completely wrong. We go Welfare reform during Clintons time, now all we gotta do s get the truth as spread as well as the lies.

While I also want a strong military, but  I want our military used a lot less. I don't want our military (read that as our blood and treasure) used to police the world. I want the budget line item "defense" to be cut back to the 90s level, and get the hell out of all these civil wars we are entangled in. I want "defense" to be actual "defense" not  "offense. (all this Bush crap about fight them there , not here is all a bunch of bunk)

I don't know enough about Medicaid to make an informed opinion. except where it pertains to Obamacare. IMO, instead of the private insurance + MEdacaid legislation we now have called Obamacare, we should have Medicare for all.

I also want to ban GMO food.

I also agree on immigration reform. I would like to see more of the big fence built as well.

Now, as to some of my issues.
I, like all of us, paid into SS all my working life, and Medicare most of my working life. I consider that an investment, like putting money in a savings act, or whatever. Now the Republican House has voted 4 times to get rid of Medicare and their money guy Paul Ryan has stated he wants to end SS as well (as did Bush2). They can call destroying those programs "saving them" , but that is a lie. Ending them is ending them, and I want them preserved.If you think I'm one of Romney's "takers" because I am collecting , then get over it. I want the bill that replaces Glass-Stegall enforced and the agency responsible for it, funded.

I want the tax rates, and the spending levels we had in the 90s returned to roughly the same levels.

I want tax reform that is more favorable to the working man than the investor class , and tax reform that would take away the "gifts" to the oil companies, and preferbally give some of that support to renewable energy  subsidies.

 

Am I happy with Obama- well there are nuances necessary to answer that. I am happy that we now have mandatory health coverage, but I am not happy with the private sector solution. As I stated before, I wanted a single payer solution. 

In general I am happy with the way he has handled the economy, even tho his opposition in the House and Senate have made every effort to make the economy fail , we are in a far better place now than when he came to office. (unless you listen to the crazies)

I am glad that under his leadership, some of the divisive social issues have been made more equitable. I am happy that he has been able to negotiate the elimination of WMD in Syria instead of going to war as a lot of his opponients wanted to do. I am glad he has gotten us into a somewhat better place , although not neer good enough, with Iran when his opponients wanted to go to war. I am disapointed that he has given in somewhat to the war mongers. I am disapointed that he caved to Boehener and could have ended the Bush tax cuts alltogether.

On the other hand, I'm glad he finally grew a set, just a little late for my thinking.
All this has to be nuanced by the fact that who could have been president, had he lost , and where we would have been had that happened. The first time would have been a 3rd Bush administration, with a true idiot as VP. The second could have been a person who's claim to fame was that he was a "businessman" , but remember the last president we had that was elected on the fact that he was a successful businessman - the Great Humanitarian himself, H Hoover, now that's a scary thought.

 

quote:  Originally Posted by House of David:
 
I'm moderate, but lately I feel like searching for a party that is different than our current choices.  There's democrats, republicans, libertarians, tea party, Green Party.  I don't like the idea of aligning with a political party and then wearing a label, but I'm not happy as a moderate anymore.

I'm:
* Prolife
* Anti-death penalty
* Want welfare reform.
* I want a strong military
* Medicaid reform (it's ridiculously unfair)
* Ban GMO food
* Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.
 
Consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (Rom. 11:22)
Hi David,

 

Sounds to me like you are a Conservative.  I am Conservative and agree with you on all these issues -- although I am not hung up on GMO foods.  Hey, if what I have eaten during my life has not killed me yet -- why should I would about genetically modified foods?

 

On your question regarding Democrat or Republican -- growing up in Alabama in the 1940s/50s the main flavor was Protestant and Democrat.  (I hate the label: White, Protestant, and Democrat -- although, unfortunately at that time, it did exist) 

 

So, when I was 21, I naturally registered as a "good old Alabama Democrat."   However, in 1964 when the Democrats nominated good old boy Lyndon Johnson -- I went out that same day and re-registered Republican.  Not because I was so enamored with the Republican party, but that was the only choice then besides the Johnson Democrat party.

 

However, over the years, and until recently, I have voted for the man -- not the party.  In years past, we could always find liberal, moderates, and conservatives in both parties.  Today, the party are virtually 100% aligned -- Dems - Liberal Socialist - and - Repubs - Conservative & RINO.  

 

So, now out of self preservation I normally vote a party line.  Never did that before, but now to kill the Liberal Socialist cow -- one must vote party line against that overly bloated cow.   Don't vote for her in 2016.

 

One last thought:  You mention Romans 11:22, "Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off."

 

And, from our past discussions, I am assuming (if am making a wrong assumption, I apologize) that you quoted the Scripture verse to imply that a Christian believer can lose his/her salvation.  However, in that Scripture passage (Romans 11:11-32) the apostle Paul is addressing the Jews -- and reminding them that they, Israel, were the chosen people of God.  And, that when God sent their promised Messiah -- as a nation they rejected Him. 

 

Paul talks with them about them, Israel, being the true branches (with Christ, their Messiah) the vine.  He tells them that because they rejected their Messiah, they were cut off and the Gentiles (you, me, all non-Jewish believers) were grafted in as new branches.

 

In short, Paul is telling them that those Jews who rejected their Messiah were, for now, cut off.  That is the purpose of the seven year Tribulation.  During the Tribulation, the Refiner's Fire (Malachi 3:1-3) will cleanse and purify the Remnant of His Chosen People, Israel -- who will be brought into the family of God.  Jews who continue to deny Christ as their Messiah -- will be cut off.

 

But, that Scripture verse is not addressing Christian believers.

 

That said, I am happy that your and I can (even if in secret) wear the badge of a Conservative.  I pray you are all set to VOTE next month and in 2016.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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Last edited by Bill Gray

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 

Anti-death penalty

If life in prison really meant life in prison, and they weren't turned out to ruin other's lives, if prisoners didn't have the same or better perks than people on the outside, and were truly punished for their crimes I might say why have the death penalty.

 

Want welfare reform.

Not only want welfare reform, but I can't see how we've managed this long and how much longer we can go on as we are. One idea, limit the time healthy people can get benefits, and require able bodied recipients do SOMETHING to benefit the community if the community has to support them. Some kind of community service.

 

I want a strong military

Agree, strong and well funded and on our borders and not policing other countries. 

 

Medicaid reform (it's rediculously unfair)

Reform

 

Ban GMO food

Could write a book on this. Bring back local farmers, meat producers, ALL food producers, processing houses etc. Use local inspectors, no feds in their business because their cows are grazing where some obscure useless tortoise lives. Start teaching people how to live off the land if they should ever have to do so. Could write a book on my thoughts on this too.

 

Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.

Close the borders. Curb even legal immigration for a while. If those 'great opportunities' ever exist again it's time they are given to Americans born and raised here by LEGAL parents. Do away with a person being legal just because he/she was born here. If your parents aren't legal, then you aren't legal. Close the borders for our protection, if that's even possible anymore. Start deporting people. Please deport the Boston bombers family on the first sweep. Tell me too, who thought bringing muslims, that freaking Russia warned us about, into the country and putting them on government welfare was a good idea?

 

I won't bore you with my entire list.

My list is a lot longer and detailed too.

 

Please tell me if you are a democrat, why? Are you currently happy with our president?

Not a democrat but have I have voted for them before so I have to say.

I have never been unhappier with a president, or more worried about the future of the country. Other times there has been the feeling that maybe we could recover from the damage the democrats do. That hopeful feeling is almost gone. Dems are a party that claims they are for the 'little man' but actually hates him if he decides to stand on his own and make his own way and doesn't spout the party line . Dems are the party that seeks to divide people on race and income, thoughts, RELIGION, and everything else they can, to the point that they wish and uphold violence on the people they don't like, and want to keep the discord stirred up. They play fast and loose with our safety as a country too. As stated, I was never a democrat, and never understood until the last few years how much they hate the country.] and there was even a time I would and did vote for one, never again!!! Again, a list too long if I gave all my thoughts on democrats!!

 

If you're a republican, why?

You can't and shouldn't, agree with a party 100%, (another problem with democrats, they go along and won't challenge each other) so you have to choose the party that most agrees with you. I don't think for one second that R are a party of haters or racists. They seem to be the party that actually does care about the safety and well being of people and the country. There are haters and racists in all parties, and as unsavory as it is, it is. For racists and haters let me refer you to the democrats.

 

What do you want in the next republican nominee....

 To list a few things, strong businessman, strong on foreign affairs, one not afraid to call a spade a spade and won't kiss butt because it's the PC thing to do. One that can bring about the things I want. One that does love the country and isn't ashamed to admit it. Again, it would be a long list.

 

Last edited by Bestworking

I will not argue with any of the statements about political philosophy.

 

But Bill Gray is inaccurate about his party registration. He says he registered at 21 as an Alabama Democrat, then re-registered as a Republican when LBJ was nominated.

 

There is no party registration in Alabama. There was none then, and there is none now. 

Originally Posted by Lionsfan:

I will not argue with any of the statements about political philosophy.

 

But Bill Gray is inaccurate about his party registration. He says he registered at 21 as an Alabama Democrat, then re-registered as a Republican when LBJ was nominated.

 

There is no party registration in Alabama. There was none then, and there is none now.  

____

Bill compounded the error by stating that when Lyndon Johnson was nominated for the Presidency, he (Bill) went and got himself registered as a Republican.

 

You can walk into any courthouse in Alabama and try to get yourself registered by party affiliation, but you will be told by the Board of Registrars' office that they have no authority to do any more than to register you--no party registrations here in the Yellowhammer State.  

 

Here is a copy of the form used to register to vote in Alabama.  Note that there is NO place on the form to enter any party identification:

 

http://www.sos.state.al.us/dow...ection/vr/nvra-2.pdf

 

Bill's alleged visits to the courthouse to register and then to change his voter registration are pure fantasy.  To be generous, it is possible that at his age, Bill is beginning to have memory problems and to experience delusions. There are some fine geriatric medical  facilities  in California where he can get his forgetful self evaluated and perhaps delay the progress of  dementia.

 

But should we be at all surprised that Bill Gray was wrong about something?  There is no "Rapture" but Bill says there is.  There is no such thing as "perseverance of the saints" or "once saved-always saved" but Bill says there is.

Last edited by Contendah
Originally Posted by Lionsfan:

I will not argue with any of the statements about political philosophy.

 

But Bill Gray is inaccurate about his party registration. He says he registered at 21 as an Alabama Democrat, then re-registered as a Republican when LBJ was nominated.

 

There is no party registration in Alabama. There was none then, and there is none now. 

=================

Couldn't care less really, and it was always hard for me to follow bill's timeline, but he says he left  Alabama immediately after graduation and he's never lived here again. If true, by the time he was 21 who knows where he was, where he was registering, or if he even registered.

Last edited by Bestworking

Hi to my three Friends - Lionsfan, Contendah, Jennifer Best,

 

You all are right.  I left my home in Sheffield at 17 to join the Air Force - June 1955,  On my 21st birthday, after just getting out of the Air Force and spending a week at my in-laws' home in Denver -- my family and I arrived by train at Union Station, Los Angeles in Sunny Southern California.  

 

One week later, I began work in the computer industry, working for Burroughs Corporation (previously Electrodata) in Sierra Madre, California.  I worked there until the winter of 1959 -- when I was assigned to work for Burroughs at the Naval Supply Depot in Norfolk, Virginia.  Nine months later, I was transferred to the Burroughs Washington DC office and lived in Alexandria, Virginian.

 

While working for Burroughs in Washington DC, I barely missed being activated during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  A friend, Paul, and I were planning to join the Air Force Reserves on Saturday, but the computer system I was assigned to maintain at Atlantic Research Corporation had a problem and Paul and I had to work on Saturday.  That Monday President Kennedy activated the Reserve unit we would have joined on Saturday if not for having to work.  Never volunteered for anything again -- until I became a Christian believer.

 

By the way, I was also working at Atlantic Research Corporation the day that Russia's Sputnik 11 was launched, April 12, 1961, the first spacecraft to carry a human, Yuri A. Gargarin.   We followed the news on radio from work.

 

At a point between the Cuban Missile Crisis and the Kennedy Assassination -- we moved back to Southern California, where I a short time later left Burroughs and joined Ramo Wooldridge (later TRW) where I helped establish a test department for the first MilSpec MiniComputer, the AN/UYK-1.

 

The day that Kennedy was shot, I had just come back from coffee break and was at my test station when a co-worker came in excitedly telling me that Kennedy had been shot.  At first I thought he was joking, but then someone produced a radio which we sat on top of the computer I was testing -- and listened in total shock as the news told us about the shooting.

 

At lunch, I drove to Our Lady Of The Valley church in Canoga Park because, even though I was not yet a Christian believer -- I felt a need to pray.  After that, I stopped at Frosty Freeze for a hamburger lunch -- and while driving back to work I heard the radio announcement that Kennedy had died.

 

That weekend, we sat glued to the television -- totally in shock.

 

Then, in 1964 when the Democrats nominated Lyndon Johnson as their presidential candidate -- since I had previously registered Democrat -- out of disgust, I went out that day and re-registered Republican.   And, believe it or not, at that time I would have been considered a liberal -- for I supported Goldwater who called himself a conservative, but today would be considered more of a RINO. 

 

And, that, my Friends, is the saga of how Bill Gray outgrew the Democrats and joined ranks with the Republicans -- later to evolve into a full-blown Conservative Republican and eventually a full-blown Conservative Christian believer.  And, the beauty of the story is -- it is ongoing!  Praise the Lord!

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

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None of that extravagant, narcissistic, boring personal history does anything but throw up a smoke cloud that you, Bill Gray, hope will obscure the fact that you posted THIS:

 

"So, when I was 21, I naturally registered as a "'good old Alabama Democrat.'" 

 

Since you now tell us that you were in California when you registered, please tell us how you, as a resident of California, registered as a "good old Alabama Democrat."  Since one can not register as an Alabama Democrat in Alabama, how in thunder can one register as a  "'good old Alabama Democrat"  in the land of fruits and nuts? You registered as a CALIFORNIA Democrat, no matter how you cut it.  Alabama is done with you.

Best,
I have too noticed that democrats will defend their party at all cost, no matter how obviously wrong one of their members are. 

I like reading the different ideas and opinions expressed here both from Best and Seaweed.
I think its true, you can't get 100% of what you want in a party. That might be my problem.  I was calling myself moderate because there were things/issues in both parties that I liked. I'm just fed up with our current situation. So want to get more involved politically and align myself with a party to push for change. 

Bill, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't know how the bible quote from Romans got on my post, I didn't write it.
I don't want this post to turn into a religious debate.



Question to anyone; why are college professors prodiminately democrats.

Do you feel republicans use the  term "family values" or Christian as a marketing tool ?
 
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 

Anti-death penalty

If life in prison really meant life in prison, and they weren't turned out to ruin other's lives, if prisoners didn't have the same or better perks than people on the outside, and were truly punished for their crimes I might say why have the death penalty.

 

Want welfare reform.

Not only want welfare reform, but I can't see how we've managed this long and how much longer we can go on as we are. One idea, limit the time healthy people can get benefits, and require able bodied recipients do SOMETHING to benefit the community if the community has to support them. Some kind of community service.

 

I want a strong military

Agree, strong and well funded and on our borders and not policing other countries. 

 

Medicaid reform (it's rediculously unfair)

Reform

 

Ban GMO food

Could write a book on this. Bring back local farmers, meat producers, ALL food producers, processing houses etc. Use local inspectors, no feds in their business because their cows are grazing where some obscure useless tortoise lives. Start teaching people how to live off the land if they should ever have to do so. Could write a book on my thoughts on this too.

 

Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.

Close the borders. Curb even legal immigration for a while. If those 'great opportunities' ever exist again it's time they are given to Americans born and raised here by LEGAL parents. Do away with a person being legal just because he/she was born here. If your parents aren't legal, then you aren't legal. Close the borders for our protection, if that's even possible anymore. Start deporting people. Please deport the Boston bombers family on the first sweep. Tell me too, who thought bringing muslims, that freaking Russia warned us about, into the country and putting them on government welfare was a good idea?

 

I won't bore you with my entire list.

My list is a lot longer and detailed too.

 

Please tell me if you are a democrat, why? Are you currently happy with our president?

Not a democrat but have I have voted for them before so I have to say.

I have never been unhappier with a president, or more worried about the future of the country. Other times there has been the feeling that maybe we could recover from the damage the democrats do. That hopeful feeling is almost gone. Dems are a party that claims they are for the 'little man' but actually hates him if he decides to stand on his own and make his own way and doesn't spout the party line . Dems are the party that seeks to divide people on race and income, thoughts, RELIGION, and everything else they can, to the point that they wish and uphold violence on the people they don't like, and want to keep the discord stirred up. They play fast and loose with our safety as a country too. As stated, I was never a democrat, and never understood until the last few years how much they hate the country.] and there was even a time I would and did vote for one, never again!!! Again, a list too long if I gave all my thoughts on democrats!!

 

If you're a republican, why?

You can't and shouldn't, agree with a party 100%, (another problem with democrats, they go along and won't challenge each other) so you have to choose the party that most agrees with you. I don't think for one second that R are a party of haters or racists. They seem to be the party that actually does care about the safety and well being of people and the country. There are haters and racists in all parties, and as unsavory as it is, it is. For racists and haters let me refer you to the democrats.

 

What do you want in the next republican nominee....

 To list a few things, strong businessman, strong on foreign affairs, one not afraid to call a spade a spade and won't kiss butt because it's the PC thing to do. One that can bring about the things I want. One that does love the country and isn't ashamed to admit it. Again, it would be a long list.

 

+++

 

What Best said.

 

But my list of "others" is short.

 

Personal responsibility

 

And oh yeah.  My "like."

 

 

 

 

Last edited by budsfarm

Question to anyone; why are college professors prodiminately democrats.

 

 

Long answer to that, but has to do with ego, thinking their stupid ideas are brilliant, and loving to push those stupid ideas and indoctrinate young minds to their way of thinking without any repercussions instead of just teaching. Dems love that crap. Not sure if Republicans as a whole oppose tenure, but I do, and protecting their jobs even when they aren't qualified is another reason they tow the demo line. And as usual, the list could go on and on.
Do you feel republicans use the  term "family values" or Christian as a marketing tool ?

 

As a marketing tool, no, I think they have very deep religious feelings and just can't help themselves. Too, not all Republicans use religion. I've often wondered just what the left finds so offensive about family values and morals, or how they got the idea that immoral actions shouldn't bother some people, and the ones that it bothered were the ones with a problem instead of the evil doer. Dysfunctional families seem to make them plain giddy with happiness but they have no idea how to fix them and just make things worse when they do get their beaks in. It's not just the religious right that brings up religion. I have to repeat this when this discussion comes up. The left uses it every bit as much if not more, but the difference, they are using it as a tool.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by House of David:
Best,
I have too noticed that democrats will defend their party at all cost, no matter how obviously wrong one of their members are. 

I like reading the different ideas and opinions expressed here both from Best and Seaweed.
I think its true, you can't get 100% of what you want in a party. That might be my problem.  I was calling myself moderate because there were things/issues in both parties that I liked. I'm just fed up with our current situation. So want to get more involved politically and align myself with a party to push for change. 

Bill, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't know how the bible quote from Romans got on my post, I didn't write it.
I don't want this post to turn into a religious debate.



Question to anyone; why are college professors prodiminately democrats.
Because they are smart. :-)

Do you feel republicans use the  term "family values" or Christian as a marketing tool ?
Yes, and in a lot (not all of course), there is a lot of hypocrisy and ignorance in a lot of it. Too many lies from that sector, too much things that are presented as being Christian ideals, that in reality have no basis in Christianity at all.

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 

Anti-death penalty

If life in prison really meant life in prison, and they weren't turned out to ruin other's lives, if prisoners didn't have the same or better perks than people on the outside, and were truly punished for their crimes I might say why have the death penalty.

 

Want welfare reform.

Not only want welfare reform, but I can't see how we've managed this long and how much longer we can go on as we are. One idea, limit the time healthy people can get benefits, and require able bodied recipients do SOMETHING to benefit the community if the community has to support them. Some kind of community service.

 

I want a strong military

Agree, strong and well funded and on our borders and not policing other countries. 

 

Medicaid reform (it's rediculously unfair)

Reform

 

Ban GMO food

Could write a book on this. Bring back local farmers, meat producers, ALL food producers, processing houses etc. Use local inspectors, no feds in their business because their cows are grazing where some obscure useless tortoise lives. Start teaching people how to live off the land if they should ever have to do so. Could write a book on my thoughts on this too.

 

Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.

Close the borders. Curb even legal immigration for a while. If those 'great opportunities' ever exist again it's time they are given to Americans born and raised here by LEGAL parents. Do away with a person being legal just because he/she was born here. If your parents aren't legal, then you aren't legal. Close the borders for our protection, if that's even possible anymore. Start deporting people. Please deport the Boston bombers family on the first sweep. Tell me too, who thought bringing muslims, that freaking Russia warned us about, into the country and putting them on government welfare was a good idea?

 

I won't bore you with my entire list.

My list is a lot longer and detailed too.

 

Please tell me if you are a democrat, why? Are you currently happy with our president?

Not a democrat but have I have voted for them before so I have to say.

I have never been unhappier with a president, or more worried about the future of the country. Other times there has been the feeling that maybe we could recover from the damage the democrats do. That hopeful feeling is almost gone. Dems are a party that claims they are for the 'little man' but actually hates him if he decides to stand on his own and make his own way and doesn't spout the party line . Dems are the party that seeks to divide people on race and income, thoughts, RELIGION, and everything else they can, to the point that they wish and uphold violence on the people they don't like, and want to keep the discord stirred up. They play fast and loose with our safety as a country too. As stated, I was never a democrat, and never understood until the last few years how much they hate the country.] and there was even a time I would and did vote for one, never again!!! Again, a list too long if I gave all my thoughts on democrats!!

 

If you're a republican, why?

You can't and shouldn't, agree with a party 100%, (another problem with democrats, they go along and won't challenge each other) so you have to choose the party that most agrees with you. I don't think for one second that R are a party of haters or racists. They seem to be the party that actually does care about the safety and well being of people and the country. There are haters and racists in all parties, and as unsavory as it is, it is. For racists and haters let me refer you to the democrats.

 

What do you want in the next republican nominee....

 To list a few things, strong businessman, strong on foreign affairs, one not afraid to call a spade a spade and won't kiss butt because it's the PC thing to do. One that can bring about the things I want. One that does love the country and isn't ashamed to admit it. Again, it would be a long list.

 

+++

 

What Best said.

 

But my list of "others" is short.

 

Personal responsibility

 

And oh yeah.  My "like."

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

 

 

 

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 

Anti-death penalty

If life in prison really meant life in prison, and they weren't turned out to ruin other's lives, if prisoners didn't have the same or better perks than people on the outside, and were truly punished for their crimes I might say why have the death penalty.

 

Want welfare reform.

Not only want welfare reform, but I can't see how we've managed this long and how much longer we can go on as we are. One idea, limit the time healthy people can get benefits, and require able bodied recipients do SOMETHING to benefit the community if the community has to support them. Some kind of community service.

 

I want a strong military

Agree, strong and well funded and on our borders and not policing other countries. 

 

Medicaid reform (it's rediculously unfair)

Reform

 

Ban GMO food

Could write a book on this. Bring back local farmers, meat producers, ALL food producers, processing houses etc. Use local inspectors, no feds in their business because their cows are grazing where some obscure useless tortoise lives. Start teaching people how to live off the land if they should ever have to do so. Could write a book on my thoughts on this too.

 

Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.

Close the borders. Curb even legal immigration for a while. If those 'great opportunities' ever exist again it's time they are given to Americans born and raised here by LEGAL parents. Do away with a person being legal just because he/she was born here. If your parents aren't legal, then you aren't legal. Close the borders for our protection, if that's even possible anymore. Start deporting people. Please deport the Boston bombers family on the first sweep. Tell me too, who thought bringing muslims, that freaking Russia warned us about, into the country and putting them on government welfare was a good idea?

 

I won't bore you with my entire list.

My list is a lot longer and detailed too.

 

Please tell me if you are a democrat, why? Are you currently happy with our president?

Not a democrat but have I have voted for them before so I have to say.

I have never been unhappier with a president, or more worried about the future of the country. Other times there has been the feeling that maybe we could recover from the damage the democrats do. That hopeful feeling is almost gone. Dems are a party that claims they are for the 'little man' but actually hates him if he decides to stand on his own and make his own way and doesn't spout the party line . Dems are the party that seeks to divide people on race and income, thoughts, RELIGION, and everything else they can, to the point that they wish and uphold violence on the people they don't like, and want to keep the discord stirred up. They play fast and loose with our safety as a country too. As stated, I was never a democrat, and never understood until the last few years how much they hate the country.] and there was even a time I would and did vote for one, never again!!! Again, a list too long if I gave all my thoughts on democrats!!

 

If you're a republican, why?

You can't and shouldn't, agree with a party 100%, (another problem with democrats, they go along and won't challenge each other) so you have to choose the party that most agrees with you. I don't think for one second that R are a party of haters or racists. They seem to be the party that actually does care about the safety and well being of people and the country. There are haters and racists in all parties, and as unsavory as it is, it is. For racists and haters let me refer you to the democrats.

 

What do you want in the next republican nominee....

 To list a few things, strong businessman, strong on foreign affairs, one not afraid to call a spade a spade and won't kiss butt because it's the PC thing to do. One that can bring about the things I want. One that does love the country and isn't ashamed to admit it. Again, it would be a long list.

 

+++

 

What Best said.

 

But my list of "others" is short.

 

Personal responsibility

 

And oh yeah.  My "like."

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

 

+++

 

I'm sorry Weed.  I'm having trouble understanding your question.  Could you quote/cite the line where I'm siding against someone taking personal responsibility for their actions?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Originally Posted by House of David:
I'm moderate, but lately I feel like searching for a party that is different than our current choices.
There's democrats, republicans, libertarians, tea party, Green Party.
I don't like the idea of aligning with a political party and then wearing a label, but I'm not happy as a moderate anymore.

I'm:
Prolife
Anti-death penalty
Want welfare reform.
I want a strong military
Medicaid reform (it's rediculously unfair)
Ban GMO food
Immigration reform. (I understand why people come to America, great opportunities, but an open border is chaos, I don't like disorganization or chaos.
I won't bore you with my entire list.

Please tell me if you are a democrat, why?
Are you currently happy with our president?

If you're a republican, why?
What do you want in the next republican nominee....

And so on.....

_______________________________________________________________

 

I really can't help you with either political party although I have voted for candidates from both parties by voting for the lesser weasel. Every time I take those tests to determine my political philosophy, I keep scoring as a Libertarian, but not a perfect one. I don't have a death wish as many Libertarians do and some of the new age "liberties" do affect people beyond ourselves.

 

I feel that the federal government has gotten too big and too authoritative by deciding things that should be left to local and state governments while at the same time neglecting those things such as national defense that are the responsibility of the federal government. I don't like the fact that Dems want the power to decide what rights I have by treating the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution as just a suggestion. I don't like some Repubs deciding what consenting adults do either as long as children and livestock are not molested or hurt.

 

 

 I keep scoring as a Libertarian, but not a perfect one. I don't have a death wish as many Libertarians do and some of the new age "liberties" do affect people beyond ourselves.

 

--------------------------

Wonder if that was the test that labeled me a centrist?? It says no party lines, but as stated before, my voting for a democrat is in the past.

What is Centrist/Centrism

Centrists don't have party lines. Centrists believe that solutions are more important than bias. While there is no set rule for what a Centrist is, there are some generally accepted guidelines that seem to depict the Centrist mode of thought. Centrism is a political ideology based on reason and pragmatism considerate of short and long term thinking - Centrism is not defined by compromise or moderation, it is considerate of them. Centrism is about achieving common sense solutions that appropriately address current and future needs; support the public trust; and serve the common good with consideration of risk and capacity in context of these needs.

Modern definitions sometimes conflate Centrism with moderation but the Centrist Party tenets generally oppose moderate views. Let's just call moderates 'moderates' and Centrists 'Centrist'.

Salient points about Centrism from the CP perspective:

 

  • Centrism is not about doing what is popular, it is about doing what is right.
  • Centrism is not moderate but rather supports strength, tradition, open mindedness and policy based on evidence not ideology.
  • Centrism is not about compromise but rather allows for it as reasonable.
    1. considerate of traditional values and new ideas in the context of evolving needs : they have more practical views toward politics and relationships than some people.
      • favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms in the context of community needs : centrist citizenship and governance laws.
      • (in a political context) favoring reasonable individual liberty and regulation in political and social reform : a centrist republican democracy.
      • ( Centrist) of or characteristic of Centrists or a Centrist Party.
    2. [ attrib. ] (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, as well as scientific, technical or professional training.
    3. (esp. of an interpretation of a law) well reasoned, construed or understood; considerate of context and precedence but not strictly literal or exact : they could have given the 1968 Act a more centrist interpretation.

     

    Centrists are independent thinkers. They gauge situations based on context and reason, consideration and probability. They are open minded and exercise conviction. Willing to fight for reason as opposed to ideology.

    1. Ideology limits the capacity of reasoning
    2. Centrist conviction is not limited by ideology
    3. Reasoning is based on pragmatic reality and circumstance.

    Centrism is not a belief. It is an open book to an unfolding situation. This does not mean it is moderate, but that it is considerate of changing circumstances that may require reconsideration based on the intelligence available, and reason itself.

    • Centrists are independent.
    • Centrists argue based on reason and context to define relevance of a given point.
    • Centrists tend to be pragmatic and avoid extremes whenever possible. Of course an extreme may be a required action so luckily Centrists tend to exercise reason in application.
    • Centrists tend to dislike special interest influence and unfair practices. They don’t appreciate spin from candidates or news organizations.
    • Centrists tend to believe that if we dealt with the facts and concentrated on working together we could fix a lot more problems than two polar opposite parties constantly embattled in their own agendas and ideologies.
    • Centrists seek accountability in governance.
    • Honor & Integrity - Centrists tend to believe that political spin erodes the integrity of the vote and certainly that of the politician.

    Candidates

    • To honor the electorate candidates should be motivated by the strength of their reasoning and the wisdom to know that convictions are merely perspectives based on current understanding and circumstance; and that learning is key to future solutions.
    • Honor in intention: means not just being honest, but to be honorable. Not just saying "I did" or "did not" say "that" but "I mean "this" or "that". America is tired of being misled by politicians that handily word craft their way in and out of positions and rely on popularity polls to figure out what they need to say next, in order to pander to some special interest, or get more votes.

    What Centrists Are Not

    • Centrists are not moderate.

    Moderation has more in kind with compromise than working toward the best solution. The reality of modern politics is that compromise is the status quo. This leads to policy that is not based on pragmatism but rather on the needs of compromised points of view.

    The goal is not compromise, but rather pragmatism based on reasonable considerations, short and long-term. In other words, decisions and policies based on the best answer, not the compromise between two flawed perspectives that are ideologically opposed.

    When necessary, compromise, but fight for reason and present the case to bring others closer to the most pragmatic solution or policy.

    Document Actions

 

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 


Personal responsibility

 

 

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

 

+++

 

I'm sorry Weed.  I'm having trouble understanding your question.  Could you quote/cite the line where I'm siding against someone taking personal responsibility for their actions?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Sorry, I know I do ramble on occasion, and it's not uncommon to get confused at that.
I' will try to be more clear. And BTW, this is not a "gortcha" question, but it shows how I think about things, and I am always interested in how other people think, their processes.

 

Like you I believe that people should take responsibility for their actions. If a girl gets pregnant for whatever reason, (and delineating those reasons is a tar baby I don't want to get into now) , and she cannot afford the child, or she learns it will be seriously health impaired, or for whatever other reason, she decides to end the pregnancy , how is that not taking personal responsibility ? I don't think many women take that very lightly if they are in that position.
I will give a couple of examples: if my wife, or daughter was pregnant, and the doctor came and told me that it would be either the baby, or the person I have loved for years, and it was my choice, It would be my wife or daughter that came out of that , and it should not have to be at the point of a gun that the doctor did what I wanted (it would be that way in my case)
Consider that a married woman, who has 3 healthy children has been told by the doctor, for whatever reason, that she should never have another child as it would not be healthy and normal, so she gets her tubes tied. Later on, however , something happens and she does in fact become pregnant again. If she decides not to terminate the pregnancy, and has a child that is a burden on her and her husband the rest of their lives, and then a burden on the remainingn children for their lives, or a burden on society as a whole (depending on what the healthy children decide to do). OR, she can terminate the pregnancy, and the family can go back to living a fairly normal life, why is that not a CHOICE that is hers to make ? ( I personally know someone who was almost in that position)
If she terminates the pregnancy, is that not "taking personal responsibility" .

One more and probably the cause of most abortions in this country:
The girl gets pregnant and is too poor to > pay for good pre-nadle care >too poor to miss several months of work > too poor to pay to support another life. (I have heard it said that most abortions are because the woman can't financially afford it). So, rather than sentencing herself and her unborn child to a lifetime of abject poverty, she decides to get an abortion.  Is that not "taking Responsability" ? 

 

I'm not even going to get into the liars like BG who has refereed to people like me as "pro abortion" , as that is a lie, and as I discussed elsewhere , lies are from Satan. NO ONE IS PRO ABORTION.

I hope that makes it more clear. It just tends to bother me when people talk about how people should "take personal responsibility for their lives, and then do whatever they can to prevent them from doing it.


I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 

Personal responsibility

 

 

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

--------------------------------

That's not bud's post, it's mine, and apparently you don't understand it. No where in that post is it denying anyone 'rights'. Clearly I said I am ANTI ( a prefix meaning “against,” “opposite of,” “antiparticle of,” used in theformation of compound words)abortion for certain reasons where they haven't been responsible. You spin it to mean that I would deny anyone abortions when I have posted time and time again they should be allowed for REAL MEDICAL REASONS, and as heart breaking as that might be, it would be up to the woman, her doctor, and her husband/father of the child, to discuss and then it would be her decision. You don't ever want to 'hear' that part from anyone that says they oppose any part of abortion. Why is that? I don't stand in front of clinics, I don't write letters and confront women having them or try to 'talk' to them.  I stay out of it and try not to think about the mass slaughter of babies because of abortion on demand for bc or convenience.  I DO NOT want my tax dollars paying for that slaughter. I don't think that's to much to ask.

Last edited by Bestworking
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 

Personal responsibility

 

 

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

--------------------------------

That's not bud's post, it's mine, and apparently you don't understand it. No where in that post is it denying anyone 'rights'. Clearly I said I am ANTI ( a prefix meaning “against,” “opposite of,” “antiparticle of,” used in theformation of compound words)abortion for certain reasons where they haven't been responsible. You spin it to mean that I would deny anyone abortions when I have posted time and time again they should be allowed for REAL MEDICAL REASONS, and as heart breaking as that might be, it would be up to the woman, her doctor, and her husband/father of the child, to discuss and then it would be her decision. You don't ever want to 'hear' that part from anyone that says they oppose any part of abortion. Why is that? I don't stand in front of clinics, I don't write letters and confront women having them or try to 'talk' to them.  I stay out of it and try not to think about the mass slaughter of babies because of abortion on demand for bc or convenience.  I DO NOT want my tax dollars paying for that slaughter. I don't think that's to much to ask.

My apologies , I thought that was in Bud's post. These chain post get confusing.
BTW, I never said I "LIKED" abortion, just that I don't think it is anybody else's business other than the woman directly involved. Not my business, not yours, not BG's and for damm sure, not the government's . I think to some degree, we are on the same page.

Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 


Personal responsibility

 

 

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

 

+++

 

I'm sorry Weed.  I'm having trouble understanding your question.  Could you quote/cite the line where I'm siding against someone taking personal responsibility for their actions?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Sorry, I know I do ramble on occasion, and it's not uncommon to get confused at that.
I' will try to be more clear. And BTW, this is not a "gortcha" question, but it shows how I think about things, and I am always interested in how other people think, their processes.

 

Like you I believe that people should take responsibility for their actions. If a girl gets pregnant for whatever reason, (and delineating those reasons is a tar baby I don't want to get into now) , and she cannot afford the child, or she learns it will be seriously health impaired, or for whatever other reason, she decides to end the pregnancy , how is that not taking personal responsibility ? I see financial, health or "for whatever reason" as mutually exclusive situations.  ** If it were financial, there are better ways of practicing contraception than abortion.  I do not see having an abortion for this reason as being personally responsible at all.  **  Pre-existing medical conditions or a medical risk due to pregnancy?  I'm all about saving lives even if it means triage, but with a pre-existing medical condition which would endanger the female's life if ever she got pregnant again, what do you suggest as a solution to that?  **  As for "whatever reason..." like an abortion for the hell of it?  I know you don't mean it that way, but think of it this way ... I'll bet there are folks who read and maybe write on this forum who are alive today because a young lady made a choice on personal responsibility.  I don't see having an abortion as taking personal responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy absent the medical reasons you raise.   I don't think many women take that very lightly if they are in that position.  I don't either.
I will give a couple of examples: if my wife, or daughter was pregnant, and the doctor came and told me that it would be either the baby, or the person I have loved for years, and it was my choice, It would be my wife or daughter that came out of that , and it should not have to be at the point of a gun that the doctor did what I wanted (it would be that way in my case)  I'm with you there.
Consider that a married woman, who has 3 healthy children has been told by the doctor, for whatever reason, that she should never have another child as it would not be healthy and normal, so she gets her tubes tied. Later on, however , something happens and she does in fact become pregnant again.  What is the likelihood of that?  If she decides not to terminate the pregnancy, and has a child that is a burden on her and her husband the rest of their lives, and then a burden on the remainingn children for their lives, or a burden on society as a whole (depending on what the healthy children decide to do). OR, she can terminate the pregnancy, and the family can go back to living a fairly normal life, why is that not a CHOICE that is hers to make ?  Again, first the reason is medical and I'm on board,  but then we switch tracks and it becomes is financial, then emotional.  Which horse are we going to ride?  Taking the totality of the circumstances, I would say that would be a choice both she and her husband should make.  The argument "lets terminate the pregnancy so that the yet unborn child won't be a burden on society while they grow to adulthood" doesn't hack it with me.  ( I personally know someone who was almost in that position)  
If she terminates the pregnancy, is that not "taking personal responsibility" .  As stated.

One more and probably the cause of most abortions in this country:
The girl gets pregnant and is too poor to > pay for good pre-nadle care >too poor to miss several months of work > too poor to pay to support another life. (I have heard it said that most abortions are because the woman can't financially afford it). So, rather than sentencing herself and her unborn child to a lifetime of abject poverty, she decides to get an abortion.  Is that not "taking Responsability" ?  Where was personal responsibility before she got pregnant?  And if it happens again, then what? 

 

I'm not even going to get into the liars like BG who has refereed to people like me as "pro abortion" , as that is a lie, and as I discussed elsewhere , lies are from Satan. NO ONE IS PRO ABORTION.

I hope that makes it more clear. It just tends to bother me when people talk about how people should "take personal responsibility for their lives, and then do whatever they can to prevent them from doing it. 

 

In the DNA era we live in, these guys who are impregnating the girls should be mandated to  demonstrate personal responsibility beginning with contraceptives through all means of support required throughout the pregnancy and beyond.  Talk about someone standing in the way of personal responsibility!

 

+++

 

Actually Weed, I was adding "personal responsibility" to the list of "other" things Best commented on in reference to:

 

"I won't bore you with my entire list.

My list is a lot longer and detailed too."

 

I don't get into the pro-life, pro-choice debates but as it affects PR, my answers included in your response.

 

And  thanks. 

 

Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
Originally Posted by seeweed:
Originally Posted by budsfarm:
 
Originally Posted by Bestworking:

I'm: Prolife

 

Anti-abortion on demand for birth control or because the woman can't be bothered. I've posted pages on this, but I guess people forget. Please don't 'make it' just because you can kill it if it doesn't fit in with your plans.

 


Personal responsibility

 

 

 

 

 ===============

Question Bud, how do you reconcile your post about "Personal Responsibility" , and in the very first part of that post you stand on the side of denying others the right to do whatever they feel they need to do , in order to be "responsible " themselves ?

 

+++

 

I'm sorry Weed.  I'm having trouble understanding your question.  Could you quote/cite the line where I'm siding against someone taking personal responsibility for their actions?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Sorry, I know I do ramble on occasion, and it's not uncommon to get confused at that.
I' will try to be more clear. And BTW, this is not a "gortcha" question, but it shows how I think about things, and I am always interested in how other people think, their processes.

 

Like you I believe that people should take responsibility for their actions. If a girl gets pregnant for whatever reason, (and delineating those reasons is a tar baby I don't want to get into now) , and she cannot afford the child, or she learns it will be seriously health impaired, or for whatever other reason, she decides to end the pregnancy , how is that not taking personal responsibility ? I see financial, health or "for whatever reason" as mutually exclusive situations.  ** If it were financial, there are better ways of practicing contraception than abortion.  I do not see having an abortion for this reason as being personally responsible at all.  **  Pre-existing medical conditions or a medical risk due to pregnancy?  I'm all about saving lives even if it means triage, but with a pre-existing medical condition which would endanger the female's life if ever she got pregnant again, what do you suggest as a solution to that?  **  As for "whatever reason..." like an abortion for the hell of it?  I know you don't mean it that way, but think of it this way ... I'll bet there are folks who read and maybe write on this forum who are alive today because a young lady made a choice on personal responsibility.  I don't see having an abortion as taking personal responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy absent the medical reasons you raise.   I don't think many women take that very lightly if they are in that position.  I don't either.
I will give a couple of examples: if my wife, or daughter was pregnant, and the doctor came and told me that it would be either the baby, or the person I have loved for years, and it was my choice, It would be my wife or daughter that came out of that , and it should not have to be at the point of a gun that the doctor did what I wanted (it would be that way in my case)  I'm with you there.
Consider that a married woman, who has 3 healthy children has been told by the doctor, for whatever reason, that she should never have another child as it would not be healthy and normal, so she gets her tubes tied. Later on, however , something happens and she does in fact become pregnant again.  What is the likelihood of that?  If she decides not to terminate the pregnancy, and has a child that is a burden on her and her husband the rest of their lives, and then a burden on the remainingn children for their lives, or a burden on society as a whole (depending on what the healthy children decide to do). OR, she can terminate the pregnancy, and the family can go back to living a fairly normal life, why is that not a CHOICE that is hers to make ?  Again, first the reason is medical and I'm on board,  but then we switch tracks and it becomes is financial, then emotional.  Which horse are we going to ride?  Taking the totality of the circumstances, I would say that would be a choice both she and her husband should make.  The argument "lets terminate the pregnancy so that the yet unborn child won't be a burden on society while they grow to adulthood" doesn't hack it with me.  ( I personally know someone who was almost in that position)  
If she terminates the pregnancy, is that not "taking personal responsibility" .  As stated.

One more and probably the cause of most abortions in this country:
The girl gets pregnant and is too poor to > pay for good pre-nadle care >too poor to miss several months of work > too poor to pay to support another life. (I have heard it said that most abortions are because the woman can't financially afford it). So, rather than sentencing herself and her unborn child to a lifetime of abject poverty, she decides to get an abortion.  Is that not "taking Responsability" ?  Where was personal responsibility before she got pregnant?  And if it happens again, then what? 

 

I'm not even going to get into the liars like BG who has refereed to people like me as "pro abortion" , as that is a lie, and as I discussed elsewhere , lies are from Satan. NO ONE IS PRO ABORTION.

I hope that makes it more clear. It just tends to bother me when people talk about how people should "take personal responsibility for their lives, and then do whatever they can to prevent them from doing it. 

 

In the DNA era we live in, these guys who are impregnating the girls should be mandated to  demonstrate personal responsibility beginning with contraceptives through all means of support required throughout the pregnancy and beyond.  Talk about someone standing in the way of personal responsibility!

 

+++

 

Actually Weed, I was adding "personal responsibility" to the list of "other" things Best commented on in reference to:

 

"I won't bore you with my entire list.

My list is a lot longer and detailed too."

 

I don't get into the pro-life, pro-choice debates but as it affects PR, my answers included in your response.

 

And  thanks. 

 

And thank you. On your next to the last statement, I would like to make a comment.
When I was living in Memphis , a law was passed in Arkansas (may or may not have been Clinton - don't remember the year) that required a woman upon giving birth, to name the father.
If that woman came to be on welfare, or put that child on welfare, the state of Arkansas would (or maybe better put could) go the father and make him pay the state back for her support, even to the point of garnishing his wages. Memphis started filling up with , well you know who. 

Personally, I think that should be a national law.
I have no idea what the state of that law today is in Arkansas.

Originally Posted by House of David:
Best,
I have too noticed that democrats will defend their party at all cost, no matter how obviously wrong one of their members are. 

I like reading the different ideas and opinions expressed here both from Best and Seaweed.
I think its true, you can't get 100% of what you want in a party. That might be my problem.  I was calling myself moderate because there were things/issues in both parties that I liked. I'm just fed up with our current situation. So want to get more involved politically and align myself with a party to push for change. 

Bill, as I stated earlier in this thread, I don't know how the bible quote from Romans got on my post, I didn't write it.
I don't want this post to turn into a religious debate.



Question to anyone; why are college professors prodiminately democrats.

Do you feel republicans use the  term "family values" or Christian as a marketing tool ?

Many may, but not me, although it may seem like it on a forum because of the limited topics discussed.
I voted for REagan twice, but during his second term, I started to realize how the policies that he was getting passed, actually were hurtingn this country . They would bombast and say things like "you are making more now than ever. or wait until it trickles down" or any other similiar type of things, but the truth was that I soon learned that the "YOU" they were talking to, was not "ME" .
In fact there was a depression (they call it a "recession", but I was out of work so it was the "D" word for me). I was low level management, and they laid off 17 of us that day. Lost a job I had been at for 20 years (but long enough to draw my retirement from them ).
My skill set can be taken anywhere, so I took it and applied at one of the largest companies in the country at that time. I was told that they had just laid off 20,000 workers and that people with over 20 years experience with them were worried there would be more, so it wasn't just me.

I started studying the policies and platform planks of both parties. It seemed to me that the Republican party was only concerned with the well being of the very rich, and the big corporations, than the average person working for a living. My parents had always said that "the republicans are the party of the rich" , but I didn't listen to them and had listened to preachers.
Now I know they were right, and don't listen to preachers any more.
I don't always agree with everything the Democratic party does of stands for, but I found , that in truth , I seldom agree with anything the Republicans stand for.

 

quote:   Originally Posted by Contendah:

None of that extravagant, narcissistic, boring personal history does anything but throw up a smoke cloud that you, Bill Gray, hope will obscure the fact that you posted THIS:

 

"So, when I was 21, I naturally registered as a "'good old Alabama Democrat.'" 

 

Since you now tell us that you were in California when you registered, please tell us how you, as a resident of California, registered as a "good old Alabama Democrat."  Since one can not register as an Alabama Democrat in Alabama, how in thunder can one register as a  "'good old Alabama Democrat"  in the land of fruits and nuts? You registered as a CALIFORNIA Democrat, no matter how you cut it.  Alabama is done with you.

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You surprise me.  I would have thought that a Secularist who is as smart as you tell us you are -- could have easily figured that out.

 

First, a "good old Alabama boy" -- no matter where he lives -- will always be an Alabamian in heart.  Alabama is not just where we were born -- but, it is something special instilled within us.  It is part of our very being.  Are YOU not a "good old Alabama boy"?

 

I don't recall ever being specifically taught to open a door for a lady -- but, to this day, I will always do it. 

 

I don't recall ever being specifically taught to address folks with respect, i.e., "Yes, ma'am" - "Yes, sir." -- but, to this day I do it.

 

So, yes, this "good old Alabama boy" re-registered as a Republican the day that Lydon Johnson was nominated at the Democratic Convention.

 

Bless your heart, I pray this clears up your secular thinking!

 

Bill

A Southern Thing

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Seaweed, what has Obama done for you?

Also, putting a baby up for adoption is another way of taking responsibility.
Women have personal choices to make, but abortion is wrong. You can't end someone's life because they're a burden.
An unborn baby has some autonomy from the mother.... Even though the unborn baby is dependent on the mother for survival.  The baby has the right to live regardless of someone else's emotional or financial status.
Originally Posted by Bill Gray:
quote:   Originally Posted by Contendah:

None of that extravagant, narcissistic, boring personal history does anything but throw up a smoke cloud that you, Bill Gray, hope will obscure the fact that you posted THIS:

 

"So, when I was 21, I naturally registered as a "'good old Alabama Democrat.'" 

 

Since you now tell us that you were in California when you registered, please tell us how you, as a resident of California, registered as a "good old Alabama Democrat."  Since one can not register as an Alabama Democrat in Alabama, how in thunder can one register as a  "'good old Alabama Democrat"  in the land of fruits and nuts? You registered as a CALIFORNIA Democrat, no matter how you cut it.  Alabama is done with you.

Contendah, my Friend,

 

You surprise me.  I would have thought that a Secularist who is as smart as you tell us you are -- could have easily figured that out.

 

First, a "good old Alabama boy" -- no matter where he lives -- will always be an Alabamian in heart.  Alabama is not just where we were born -- but, it is something special instilled within us.  It is part of our very being.  Are YOU not a "good old Alabama boy"?

 

I don't recall ever being specifically taught to open a door for a lady -- but, to this day, I will always do it. 

 

I don't recall ever being specifically taught to address folks with respect, i.e., "Yes, ma'am" - "Yes, sir." -- but, to this day I do it.

 

So, yes, this "good old Alabama boy" re-registered as a Republican the day that Lydon Johnson was nominated at the Democratic Convention.

 

Bless your heart, I pray this clears up your secular thinking!

 

Bill

____

 

I need no clearing up.  You said you "REGISTERED as a good old Alabama boy."  Yes, you wrote just that. You did not REGISTER as any such thing. You REGISTERED as a Democrat.  Later you REGISTERED as a Republican.  California can not and will not REGISTER you as a "good old Alabama boy." For one who prides himself on alleged writing skills, you fumble the Mother Tongue an awful lot.  And then you compound the offense by your cheap weasely attempts to extricate yourself from your self-imposed embarrassment.  Pitiful.

 

Last edited by Contendah
Originally Posted by House of David:
Seaweed, what has Obama done for you?
Personally, my stock portfolio has almmost tripled under Obama's watch. Under Bush's it was cut in half. Stock holdings of mine that used to pay handsome dividends, quit during Bush' s watch, and have in the last few years , resumed paying dividends, although at a lesser rate.
Next, because of mandatory health insurance, my kids have to pay for their own health insurance. Wife and I were paying for two of my three, because they just don't think they need insurance. More money in my pocket, and I can rest easier knowing that if somethingn bad happened to one of my kids, I would not go broke picking up the tab.
Next  he targeted that SOB that masterminded the attack on 9/11 and got him killed, Bush stated that he didn't know or care about Ben Laden. While not actually personal to me, it just brings me the satisfaction of knowing we had a president that cares enough about our country to get something done about it, rather than go to war on an innocent country that had nothing to do with it.
I sleep better knowing he has cut the national deficit by 2/3.
There are some other things he has done that , although they benefited me personally  in a very roundabout   way, I just think it was overall good for the country, like saving GM, and negotiating the WMD away in Syria, and avoiding a war with Iran.
On the other hand, not one single **** Wall Street banker has gone to jail, nor does it look like any will.
I am tired of arguing with ignorant people that the job market is not doing so much better under Obama than it was under Bush, but regardless of facts, figures and charts, some still believe , as Romney said "Obama didn't cause the recession, he just made it worse"  Horse patties! The job market is adding more jobs per year of Obama's admin than it ever did under Bush.
Obama has noot been a war mongering president, although he is not a peace loving one either.
However, maybe the thing that Obama has done that personally affected me, is what he dosen't do which is talk about Iraq in each and every speech. Damm I got tired of hering a steady stream of that. In addition, he does not seem to be a fear monger er at all like his predecessor was.


Also, putting a baby up for adoption is another way of taking responsibility.
Women have personal choices to make, but abortion is wrong. You can't end someone's life because they're a burden.
An unborn baby has some autonomy from the mother.... Even though the unborn baby is dependent on the mother for survival.  The baby has the right to live regardless of someone else's emotional or financial status.

============

Well , I totally agree. However, I think instead of people trying to punish girls for having sex (and really, that is what it is all about when you get down to the base of it), if they are so concerned, why not come up with a contract to the girl in question, stating that you will pay all her medical expenses befor the baby arrives, and then agree to take and raise the kid with no farther economic responsibility to the girl. How's that for a real solution. Maybe better yet (just so you can see the Democratic Socialisst in me come out), why not the state provide pre and post natal care, along with quality free child care so the girl could take the baby home, and be able to hold down a job, rather than be chastised for being lazy and not having a job because she has no credible place to keep the kid.. Wouldn't that be money better spent than bombing and killing people by the tens of thousands, and then rebuilding their infrastructure back ?
AS I have said before, I really don't want to hit that abortion tar baby, 'cause I have no intention of getting wound up in some arguing back and forth, but since you appear to be a Christian minded Bible believing type of person, I would like to address that issue you raised calling them "babies". In fact , I can go along with that in the last 3 months , but before that, they are a fetus, actually they are a fetus until birth, but I won't argue about the last 3 months.
So, lets consider some things the Bible does say about  pregnancy, and when a fetus becomes a person.  The Bible tells us that Adam, after he breathed , he became a living soul. Breathing must begin before the soul exist.
Even tho the Bible does not address abortion per sea, in Ex 21:22-23 we find
If two men are fighting and in the process hurt a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage, but she lives, then the man who injured her (not the child) should be fined (as the husband and courts approve), but if harm comes to the woman and she dies, (it is consiered murder) and he (that caused the harm) shall be executed.
It isn't murder unless the woman dies. If she looses a fetus, that is not a case for legal prosecution, but if she dies, then it is.. Terminating a fetus does not constitute ending a life as at that time the fetus does not have a soul, but to cause the death of a soul, is murder.
So, just thought instead of what you think , or what I think, what does Scripture say . Not what Jerry Faldwell ranted, or any other TV preacher, jusst what does Scripture say about it.

 

 

 

Even tho the Bible does not address abortion per sea, in Ex 21:22-23 we find If two men are fighting and in the process hurt a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage, but she lives, then the man who injured her (not the child) should be fined (as the husband and courts approve), but if harm comes to the woman and she dies, (it is consiered murder) and he (that caused the harm) shall be executed. It isn't murder unless the woman dies. If she looses a fetus, that is not a case for legal prosecution, but if she dies, then it is.. Terminating a fetus does not constitute ending a life as at that time the fetus does not have a soul, but to cause the death of a soul, is murder. So, just thought instead of what you think , or what I think, what does Scripture say . Not what Jerry Faldwell ranted, or any other TV preacher, jusst what does Scripture say about it.

  One example of a democrat using religion to push their agenda. Not a no no when they do it.  So, your god doesn't care if babies are killed in the womb? None of your interpretation applies to people who don't believe in souls, gods and such, and have their own ideas/feelings, as to when life begins. A dead fetus, baby, whatever you call it, can't develop to full term and be born.

Last edited by Bestworking

Not actually immigration, but something that desperately needs to be stopped. The article is a year old, true, but that doesn't change the fact it's something that has been going on for a long time, and will continue unless something is changed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

L.A. County cites 16 'maternity hotel' owners

They are cited for illegally operating boardinghouses in residential zones, all in Rowland Heights or Hacienda Heights. Women from Asia give birth to U.S. citizen babies at the facilities.

http://articles.latimes.com/20...nity-hotels-20130412

 

 

Last edited by Bestworking
Seaweed,
You're right, I am a christian, but believing a fetus has status of personhood is simple science. 

Did You Know?
18 days a Baby’s heart beats
8 weeks all organs function
9 weeks has individual fingerprints
10 weeks a baby can feel pain
12 weeks a baby can smile


If "it" has a heartbeat and can recoil in pain during an abortion - it's wrong.
quote:  Originally Posted by seeweed:
Even tho the Bible does not address abortion per se, in Ex 21:22-23 we find If two men are fighting and in the process hurt a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage, but she lives, then the man who injured her (not the child) should be fined (as the husband and courts approve),  But if harm comes to the woman and she dies, (it is consiered murder) and he (that caused the harm) shall be executed.
It isn't murder unless the woman dies.  If she looses a fetus, that is not a case for legal prosecution, but if she dies, then it is.. Terminating a fetus does not constitute ending a life as at that time the fetus does not have a soul, but to cause the death of a soul, is murder.
So, just thought instead of what you think , or what I think, what does Scripture say . Not what Jerry Faldwell ranted, or any other TV preacher, just what does Scripture say about it.
Seeweed, my Friend,

 

If you are going to quote the Bible -- at least stay within what it says.   You use Exodus 21:22-23 as your proof text.  You have totally misquoted that Scripture passage.  Let's look at what it does say:

 

Exodus 21:22-23, "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.  But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,"

 

That "But if there is any further injury" -- can easily be read as the loss of her baby.

 

What David has posted is accurate:

 

You're right, I am a Christian.  But believing a fetus has status of personhood is simple science. 

Did You Know?


18 days a Baby’s heart beats
8 weeks all organs function
9 weeks has individual fingerprints
10 weeks a baby can feel pain
12 weeks a baby can smile


If "it" has a heartbeat and can recoil in pain during an abortion - it's wrong.

 

Finally, let me offer this article for your consideration:

 

UNBORN BABIES CAN FEEL PAIN

Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain

 http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html

 

The evidence of fetal pain:  With the advent of sonograms and live-action ultrasound images, neonatologists and nurses are able to see unborn babies at 20 weeks gestation react physically to outside stimuli such as sound, light and touch. The sense of touch is so acute that even a single human hair drawn across an unborn baby's palm causes the baby to make a fist.  

 

Surgeons entering the womb to perform corrective procedures on tiny unborn babies have seen those babies flinch, jerk and recoil from sharp objects and incisions.

 

“The neural pathways are present for pain to be experienced quite early by unborn babies,” explains Steven Calvin, M.D., perinatologist, chair of the Program in Human Rights Medicine, University of Minnesota, where he teaches obstetrics.

 

Medical facts of fetal pain:   Anatomical studies have documented that the body’s pain network—the spino-thalamic pathway—is established by 20 weeks gestation.

 

• “At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG).”  — Dr. Paul Ranalli, neurologist, University of Toronto

 

• An unborn baby at 20 weeks gestation “is fully capable of experiencing pain. … Without question, [abortion] is a dreadfully painful experience for any infant subjected to such a surgical procedure.”  — Robert J. White, M.D., PhD., professor of neurosurgery, Case Western University

 

Unborn babies have heightened sensitivities:   Unborn babies at 20 weeks development actually feel pain more intensely than adults. This is a “uniquely vulnerable time, since the pain system is fully established, yet the higher level pain-modifying system has barely begun to develop,” according to Dr. Ranalli.

 

“Having administered anesthesia for fetal surgery, I know that on occasion we need to administer anesthesia directly to the fetus, because even at these early gestational ages the fetus moves away from the pain of the stimulation,” stated David Birnbach, M.D., president of the Society for Obstetric Anesthesia and Perinatology and self-described as “pro-choice,” in testimony before the U.S. Congress.

 

Given the medical evidence that unborn babies experience pain, compassionate people are viewing abortion more and more as an inhumane and intolerable brutality against defenseless human beings.

 

The unborn baby at 20 weeks Fetal development is already quite advanced at 20 weeks gestation:

 

• The skeleton is complete and reflexes are present at 42 days.

 

• Electrical brain wave patterns can be recorded at 43 days.  This is usually ample evidence that “thinking” is taking place in the brain.

 

• The fetus has the appearance of a miniature baby, with complete fingers, toes and ears at 49 days.

 

• All organs are functioning—stomach, liver, kidney, brain—and all systems are intact at 56 days.

 

• By 20 weeks, the unborn child has hair and working vocal cords, sucks her thumb, grasps with her hands and kicks. She measures 12 inches.

 

Abortion at 20 weeks:   Despite the unborn child’s advanced development at 20 weeks, the following painful abortion procedures are used:

 

 Partial-birth abortion (D&X): The unborn baby is delivered feet first, except for the head, which is punctured at the base of the skull with a sharp object. The brain is then suctioned out, killing the child. (This method was outlawed in the United States in 2007.)

 

• Dilation and Evacuation (D&E):  Sharp-edged instruments are used to grasp, twist and tear the baby’s body into pieces, which are then removed from the womb.

 

• Saline abortion:  Salt water is injected into the womb through the mother’s abdomen.  The unborn baby swallows this fluid, is poisoned and dies in a process that sometimes takes 24 hours.  The toxic saline solution causes severe burns over the unborn child’s entire body.

 

Minnesota law recognizes fetal pain:  MCCL helped to pass Minnesota’s Woman’s Right to Know law in 2003, which, among other things, informs women that their unborn child can feel pain at 20 weeks gestation. MCCL also strongly supported the Unborn Child Pain Prevention Act, which became state law in 2005. The law requires that abortionists and referring physicians inform women that pain-reducing medication is available for their unborn baby. Pregnant women must sign a form to either request or refuse the administration of pain-reducing drugs to their unborn child prior to an abortion.

 

 My Friend, looking at those three methods of abortion -- which would you have chosen for yourself -- or for a child you helped conceive?

 

Some years ago, I attended a concert hosted by Pat Boone, Joni Eareckson Tada, and Pastor David Hocking -- and the theme was LIFE. 

 

On the show they had a teenage girl as a guest performer.   Her distinction in life?  She survived an attempted Saline Abortion.   And, my Friend, let me tell you -- she was very happy that she did survive that cruel attempt to destroy her life as a baby yet unborn.   That night she sang her praises to God with gusto -- the gusto of a young lady who knows the importance of life.

 

I realize that you and other Liberals may just blow this off as another Christian trying to preach to you.  But, what I have offered is proven facts.  That is much more that most Pro-Abortion Proponents can offer.

 

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

 

Bill

Killing Me Empowers You

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Originally Posted by House of David:
Seaweed,
You're right, I am a christian, but believing a fetus has status of personhood is simple science. 

Did You Know?
18 days a Baby’s heart beats
8 weeks all organs function
9 weeks has individual fingerprints
10 weeks a baby can feel pain
12 weeks a baby can smile


If "it" has a heartbeat and can recoil in pain during an abortion - it's wrong.

------------------------------

Your baby will get familiar with you and even start to begin to learn your language while she is still in the womb. And, your fetus will be able to hear music with very little distortion, according to Life Before Birth

 

While agreeing that parents should stimulate the fetus with sounds, Columbia University developmental psychobiologist William Fifer warns against taking this too far by buying a lot of “fetal acoustic stimulation” devices such as speakers designed to pipe sounds and music through the uterus. Fifer points out that Mother Nature does a pretty good job of letting your fetus receive sounds naturally. 

 

You should be able to see evidence that your baby did hear you while he was in the womb by trying an experiment. If you played a particular piece of music for your baby while you were pregnant, play this music after giving birth. Usually the baby’s head will turn toward the familiar sound, Life Before Birth says.

When your baby comes home from the hospital, if you play the familiar music from when you were pregnant, your baby may be able to better adjust to her new surroundings. The music will recall your baby’s time in the womb, giving her a sense of security.Not only will your baby recognize your voice, he will recognize his father’s voice, too, especially if Dad can rest his head on your belly and talk to his baby. After the birth, your baby should be able to recognize the voices of both of his parents.

http://www.modernmom.com/e9519...7f-404062497d7e.html

 

 


However, I think instead of people trying to punish girls for having sex (and really, that is what it is all about when you get down to the base of it),

Ridiculous statement. Punish? Sheesh. When both our children got old enough-EARLY teens, we had one of 'the talks'.  At NO time was sex degraded or spoken against, quite the opposite. They were told we wanted the 'talk' before they became sexually active so they would know about options in BC, disease prevention, and, I really stressed this one,  how you don't tie yourself to a person before marriage, that you later find out you don't love, by having a child with them, because the child ties you for life, or getting into a situation where they think abortion is the best option, because there could, most likely will be, emotional and mental repercussions from an abortion that they'd have to live with all their life. How the **** teaching/asking for responsibility,  from a person is punishing them for having sex is beyond me. Who thinks like that? Talk about weird, crazy, messed up thinking.

if they are so concerned, why not come up with a contract to the girl in question, stating that you will pay all her medical expenses befor the baby arrives, and then agree to take and raise the kid with no farther economic responsibility to the girl.

How many couples do that now, and how many more would do that if given the chance? How many couples have to run all over the world to adopt when they should be able to do it here?

How's that for a real solution. Maybe better yet (just so you can see the Democratic Socialisst in me come out), why not the state provide pre and post natal care, along with quality free child care so the girl could take the baby home, and be able to hold down a job, rather than be chastised for being lazy and not having a job because she has no credible place to keep the kid..

Oh, you mean like we've been doing for how many years now? How's that working out? Not real well from what I've seen.  Not enough success stories. How many hundreds of thousands are we doing that for right now? How many hundreds of thousands don't worry about having kids for the simple reason they know there will be a government check and other programs to support it without them having to work, or without having to make the 'baby daddy' support it? They will keep the child in a heartbeat if it means money, housing, food without working for it

Last edited by Bestworking
quote:   Originally Posted by Crash.Override:

i would never vote for a party supported by the likes of bill... think about what a horrible world it would be, run by jackasses like bill!

Crash, my Friend,

 

The sad thing about this post is -- that your level of posting intelligence has peaked -- obviously years ago.  And, all you can do now is regurgitate such as this.   Wow, HOW YOU DO rise to such levels?  Truly amazing.

 

Bless your little regurgitated heart!

 

Bill

Stop Working For Free

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