quote: Originally Posted by seeweed:
Even tho the Bible does not address abortion per se, in Ex 21:22-23 we find If two men are fighting and in the process hurt a pregnant woman so that she has a miscarriage, but she lives, then the man who injured her (not the child) should be fined (as the husband and courts approve), But if harm comes to the woman and she dies, (it is consiered murder) and he (that caused the harm) shall be executed.
It isn't murder unless the woman dies. If she looses a fetus, that is not a case for legal prosecution, but if she dies, then it is.. Terminating a fetus does not constitute ending a life as at that time the fetus does not have a soul, but to cause the death of a soul, is murder.
So, just thought instead of what you think , or what I think, what does Scripture say . Not what Jerry Faldwell ranted, or any other TV preacher, just what does Scripture say about it.
Seeweed, my Friend,
If you are going to quote the Bible -- at least stay within what it says. You use Exodus 21:22-23 as your proof text. You have totally misquoted that Scripture passage. Let's look at what it does say:
Exodus 21:22-23, "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,"
That "But if there is any further injury" -- can easily be read as the loss of her baby.
What David has posted is accurate:
You're right, I am a Christian. But believing a fetus has status of personhood is simple science.
Did You Know?
18 days a Baby’s heart beats
8 weeks all organs function
9 weeks has individual fingerprints
10 weeks a baby can feel pain
12 weeks a baby can smile
If "it" has a heartbeat and can recoil in pain during an abortion - it's wrong.
Finally, let me offer this article for your consideration:
UNBORN BABIES CAN FEEL PAIN
Scientific evidence reveals that unborn babies do, indeed, feel pain
http://www.mccl.org/unborn-babies-can-feel-pain.html
The evidence of fetal pain: With the advent of sonograms and live-action ultrasound images, neonatologists and nurses are able to see unborn babies at 20 weeks gestation react physically to outside stimuli such as sound, light and touch. The sense of touch is so acute that even a single human hair drawn across an unborn baby's palm causes the baby to make a fist.
Surgeons entering the womb to perform corrective procedures on tiny unborn babies have seen those babies flinch, jerk and recoil from sharp objects and incisions.
“The neural pathways are present for pain to be experienced quite early by unborn babies,” explains Steven Calvin, M.D., perinatologist, chair of the Program in Human Rights Medicine, University of Minnesota, where he teaches obstetrics.
Medical facts of fetal pain: Anatomical studies have documented that the body’s pain network—the spino-thalamic pathway—is established by 20 weeks gestation.
• “At 20 weeks, the fetal brain has the full complement of brain cells present in adulthood, ready and waiting to receive pain signals from the body, and their electrical activity can be recorded by standard electroencephalography (EEG).” — Dr. Paul Ranalli, neurologist, University of Toronto
• An unborn baby at 20 weeks gestation “is fully capable of experiencing pain. … Without question, [abortion] is a dreadfully painful experience for any infant subjected to such a surgical procedure.” — Robert J. White, M.D., PhD., professor of neurosurgery, Case Western University
Unborn babies have heightened sensitivities: Unborn babies at 20 weeks development actually feel pain more intensely than adults. This is a “uniquely vulnerable time, since the pain system is fully established, yet the higher level pain-modifying system has barely begun to develop,” according to Dr. Ranalli.
“Having administered anesthesia for fetal surgery, I know that on occasion we need to administer anesthesia directly to the fetus, because even at these early gestational ages the fetus moves away from the pain of the stimulation,” stated David Birnbach, M.D., president of the Society for Obstetric Anesthesia and Perinatology and self-described as “pro-choice,” in testimony before the U.S. Congress.
Given the medical evidence that unborn babies experience pain, compassionate people are viewing abortion more and more as an inhumane and intolerable brutality against defenseless human beings.
The unborn baby at 20 weeks: Fetal development is already quite advanced at 20 weeks gestation:
• The skeleton is complete and reflexes are present at 42 days.
• Electrical brain wave patterns can be recorded at 43 days. This is usually ample evidence that “thinking” is taking place in the brain.
• The fetus has the appearance of a miniature baby, with complete fingers, toes and ears at 49 days.
• All organs are functioning—stomach, liver, kidney, brain—and all systems are intact at 56 days.
• By 20 weeks, the unborn child has hair and working vocal cords, sucks her thumb, grasps with her hands and kicks. She measures 12 inches.
Abortion at 20 weeks: Despite the unborn child’s advanced development at 20 weeks, the following painful abortion procedures are used:
• Partial-birth abortion (D&X): The unborn baby is delivered feet first, except for the head, which is punctured at the base of the skull with a sharp object. The brain is then suctioned out, killing the child. (This method was outlawed in the United States in 2007.)
• Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): Sharp-edged instruments are used to grasp, twist and tear the baby’s body into pieces, which are then removed from the womb.
• Saline abortion: Salt water is injected into the womb through the mother’s abdomen. The unborn baby swallows this fluid, is poisoned and dies in a process that sometimes takes 24 hours. The toxic saline solution causes severe burns over the unborn child’s entire body.
Minnesota law recognizes fetal pain: MCCL helped to pass Minnesota’s Woman’s Right to Know law in 2003, which, among other things, informs women that their unborn child can feel pain at 20 weeks gestation. MCCL also strongly supported the Unborn Child Pain Prevention Act, which became state law in 2005. The law requires that abortionists and referring physicians inform women that pain-reducing medication is available for their unborn baby. Pregnant women must sign a form to either request or refuse the administration of pain-reducing drugs to their unborn child prior to an abortion.
My Friend, looking at those three methods of abortion -- which would you have chosen for yourself -- or for a child you helped conceive?
Some years ago, I attended a concert hosted by Pat Boone, Joni Eareckson Tada, and Pastor David Hocking -- and the theme was LIFE.
On the show they had a teenage girl as a guest performer. Her distinction in life? She survived an attempted Saline Abortion. And, my Friend, let me tell you -- she was very happy that she did survive that cruel attempt to destroy her life as a baby yet unborn. That night she sang her praises to God with gusto -- the gusto of a young lady who knows the importance of life.
I realize that you and other Liberals may just blow this off as another Christian trying to preach to you. But, what I have offered is proven facts. That is much more that most Pro-Abortion Proponents can offer.
God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,
Bill