Benjamin Franklin an Atheists? Not

quote:

Originally posted by LoveShack:
I'm always amazed at how the Atheists want to quote Ben Franklin and tells us he never believed in God or a higher Being.

"I never was without some religious principles. I never doubted, for instance, the existence of the Deity; that He made the world, and governed it by His Providence; that the most acceptable service of God was the doing good to man; that our souls are immortal; and that all crime will be punished, and virtue rewarded, either here or hereafter." Benjamin Franklin

---
So there you go. Very good L.S.

K

quote:

I'm always amazed at how the Atheists want to quote Ben Franklin and tells us he never believed in God or a higher Being.

I could have missed it, but I have never seen an atheist state Benjamin Franklin was a non-believer. I seriously think that even had he and others been "atheists", they would have kept it to themselves and pretended to believe. I did that for years. You only have to look at the responses of some of the so called christians on here to understand why. They would have probably burned old Ben at the stake had he proclaimed himself to be a non-believer, and never for one moment thought of all the good things he did. Let me make this clear so the word twisting won't work-I AM NOT stating BF was a "closet atheist."

LoveShack,

Please cite at least one example where an atheist on the forum claimed that Ben Franklin was an atheist. Otherwise, who are all these atheists that amaze you with Franklin quotes?

quote:

Originally posted by A. Robustus:
LoveShack,

Please cite at least one example where an atheist on the forum claimed that Ben Franklin was an atheist. Otherwise, who are all these atheists that amaze you with Franklin quotes?

Adot,

This is tooo funny. The atheist candidates claim everyone is an atheist. Even themselves.

An atheist would totally like man, believe in no God but in the confused state they never reach a point where they would have Him excluded from their mind.

Even animals believe in a higher power. Wolves howl at the moon and orangutans ponder the stars.

he was likely a deist, as were many of our founding fathers
(and as i once was...some could even argue that i am still a deist depending on what definition of "god" is used). his words, however, are clearly the words of one who is quite critical of religion. they are the same words we atheists use here. whether or not he was actually an atheist is immaterial. he was successful in preventing religion from being a major component of our government and that is enough.

quotes from ben:

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
-- Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780, quoted from Adrienne Koch, ed, The American Enlightenment: The Shaping of the American Experiment and a Free Society, New York: George Braziller, 1965, p. 93.

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason: The Morning Daylight appears plainer when you put out your Candle.
-- Benjamin Franklin, the incompatibility of faith and reason, Poor Richard's Almanack (1758)

I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.
-- Benjamin Franklin, quoted from Victor J Stenger, Has Science Found God? (2001)

Many a long dispute among divines may be thus abridged: It is so; It is not so. It is so; it is not so.
-- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1743

If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. These found it wrong in the bishops, but fell into the same practice themselves both here and in New England.
-- Benjamin Franklin, An Essay on Toleration

Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.
-- Benjamin Franklin (attributed: source unknown)

He [the Rev Mr. Whitefield] used, indeed, sometimes to pray for my conversion, but never had the satisfaction of believing that his prayers were heard.
-- Benjamin Franklin, from Franklin's Autobiography

[Excerpt]:
"A little Religion, and a little Honesty, goes a great way in Courts."
-- Benjamin Franklin, comparing the politicized clergyman with the regular clergyman, a thing which a few have ventured to do in recent times (Ahem!), quoted in The New England Currant (July 23, 1722), "Silence Dogood, No. 9; Corruptio optimi est pessima." quoted from The History Carper

source

The creed of Ben Franklin,

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been
questioned upon it. But I do not take your curiosity the wrong way,
and will try in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed: I believe in one God, creator of the universe;
that He governs it by his providence; that He ought to be worshipped;
that the most acceptable service we can render Him is to do good to his
other Children. And that the Soul of Man is immortal,
and will be treated with justice in another life
respecting its conduct in this.


K

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:
The creed of Ben Franklin,

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been
questioned upon it. But I do not take your curiosity the wrong way,
and will try in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed: I believe in one God, creator of the universe;
that He governs it by his providence; that He ought to be worshipped;
that the most acceptable service we can render Him is to do good to his
other Children. And that the Soul of Man is immortal,
and will be treated with justice in another life
respecting its conduct in this.

K

That look's like a good creed to me.

Brick

I don't think I have ever heard an atheist say Ben was anything other than a founding father and probably a deist.

Where do you guys get this stuff?

Having a belief in a higher power or god does not make one a christian either.

I really doesn't matter though. He had a great outlook that I wish more believers today had. If more of the christians in this area were like old Ben, I believe we could all live more peacefully together.

quote:

Originally posted by Brick:

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:
The creed of Ben Franklin,

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been
questioned upon it. But I do not take your curiosity the wrong way,
and will try in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed: I believe in one God, creator of the universe;
that He governs it by his providence; that He ought to be worshipped;
that the most acceptable service we can render Him is to do good to his
other Children. And that the Soul of Man is immortal,
and will be treated with justice in another life
respecting its conduct in this.

K

That look's like a good creed to me.

Brick

yup. it's the creed of a deist, not a christian. . . . and not an atheist. there, here is one atheist saying he is not an atheist.

quote:

I really doesn't matter though. He had a great outlook that I wish more believers today had. If more of the christians in this area were like old Ben, I believe we could all live more peacefully together.

<like>

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Brick:

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:
The creed of Ben Franklin,

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been
questioned upon it. But I do not take your curiosity the wrong way,
and will try in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed: I believe in one God, creator of the universe;
that He governs it by his providence; that He ought to be worshipped;
that the most acceptable service we can render Him is to do good to his
other Children. And that the Soul of Man is immortal,
and will be treated with justice in another life
respecting its conduct in this.

K

That look's like a good creed to me.

Brick

yup. it's the creed of a deist, not a christian. . . . and not an atheist. there, here is one atheist saying he is not an atheist.

----------------------------

Nope , Ben is a Christian, you can't read.

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Brick:

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:
The creed of Ben Franklin,

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been
questioned upon it. But I do not take your curiosity the wrong way,
and will try in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed: I believe in one God, creator of the universe;
that He governs it by his providence; that He ought to be worshipped;
that the most acceptable service we can render Him is to do good to his
other Children. And that the Soul of Man is immortal,
and will be treated with justice in another life
respecting its conduct in this.

K

That look's like a good creed to me.

Brick

yup. it's the creed of a deist, not a christian. . . . and not an atheist. there, here is one atheist saying he is not an atheist.

----------------------------

Nope , Ben is a Christian, you can't read.

then i guess i can't either.
where in the above ' creed ' does it mention christ?
did i miss it?

quote:

Originally posted by thenagel:

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:

quote:

Originally posted by Unobtanium:

quote:

Originally posted by Brick:

quote:

Originally posted by Kraven:
The creed of Ben Franklin,

You desire to know something of my religion. It is the first time I have been
questioned upon it. But I do not take your curiosity the wrong way,
and will try in a few words to gratify it.

Here is my creed: I believe in one God, creator of the universe;
that He governs it by his providence; that He ought to be worshipped;
that the most acceptable service we can render Him is to do good to his
other Children. And that the Soul of Man is immortal,
and will be treated with justice in another life
respecting its conduct in this.

K

That look's like a good creed to me.

Brick

yup. it's the creed of a deist, not a christian. . . . and not an atheist. there, here is one atheist saying he is not an atheist.

----------------------------

Nope , Ben is a Christian, you can't read.

then i guess i can't either.
where in the above ' creed ' does it mention christ?
did i miss it?

doh!

"Atheist"-singular.

"Atheists"-plural.

Learn it, live it, use it.


nsns

quote:

Originally posted by Not Shallow Not Slim:
"Atheist"-singular.

"Atheists"-plural.

Learn it, live it, use it.

To use atheist in the plural slim is in error.

I keep having to go over this.

One more time:



nsns

To use atheist in the plural slim is in error.

I keep having to go over this.

One more time:

There can never be more than one atheist observed at any one given point in time.

There can only be confused candidates for the atheist.

The words of a Deist?

I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall be become a reproach and a bye word down to future age. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human Wisdom, and leave it to chance, war, and conquest.

Ben Franklin
Thursday, June 28, 1787, Philadelphia, PA

quote:

The words of a Deist?

yes. deism covers a pretty wide spectrum of beliefs about a god who has anywhwere from none to little to some to much interest in the affairs of man. here is a collection of letters from him that seem quite clear to me that he was at least a deist and most certainly NOT a christian although to professed an admiration for the man named jesus:

http://www.worldpolicy.org/glo...anklin-religion.html

the last letter, to richard price, was written shortly before his death at age 84.

If you want to split hairs you could describe someone as a Christian with a Deistic theology (which that person may or may not be aware of).

That is not what most folks think of when it is claimed that someone is a Deist. Most people think of someone who does not believe that the Creator intervenes in human activity, which, according to the quote above, was not what Franklin believed.

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck Norris:
If you want to split hairs you could describe someone as a Christian with a Deistic theology (which that person may or may not be aware of).

That is not what most folks think of when it is claimed that someone is a Deist. Most people think of someone who does not believe that the Creator intervenes in human activity, which, according to the quote above, was not what Franklin believed.

Chuck, Your not going to get any where with an atheist, they know God is there
they just can't tuen back now.

whatever the case, chuck, it seems pretty clear that ol ben rejected christianity in much the same way that Thomas Jefferson did. They both beleived Jesus existed as, apparently, a influential man and may have given credence to a "higher power" that is not necessarily the christian god but simply some mysterious deistic "creator."

im not splitting hairs, im just not sure what one would call a person that has no religious affiliation (or outright rejects affiliation) and simply believes in a higher power. it may not be deism in the truest sense. i guess pantheism might be more apt?

Wasn't He a Mason like so many others that helped form our nation? I thought he was.