Bill Gray, you're an idiot.

Hi all,

And, there, my Friends -- you have the new gospel. Science is now god. God is dead or stupid, for Sofa declares:"Those who embrace blind faith (and stupidity like Creationism)"

Therefore, because God teaches Creationism in Genesis -- and because God teaches, throughout the Bible, that we are saved, by grace, through FAITH -- He MUST be STUPID!

Okay, everyone get on board now! Remember, God is either dead or stupid -- and science is now god. Hallelujah! Duh!

By the way, welcome back, Billy Joe Bobby Gene. But, how did you happen to pick the names of me and my brother. Are you trying to honor us? Gee, thank you. We have missed you and your Hollywood theology.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by DustinSmith:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Why do people pretend to be stupid?

Because they're afraid of burning for eternity if they think otherwise. It's really sad what religion has done to the heads of the masses.

It won't last much longer, though. Religious people are a dying breed.

Dustin

WOW. Really?!?!?! You have nerves that I have never seen. Just saying.
I do feel sorry for you, really I do.

And FYI...we are not a 'dying breed'.

quote:

Originally posted by DustinSmith:
To be honest, the only thing that keeps me coming back to these forums are Bill's mindless, God-fearing, creationist thoughts.

Maybe you keep coming back to these forums because you are searching for something and you dont know quite yet what it is but you know that this (religion)(eternal life forever with God)(God love) is what is missing in your life.

Hey, I didnt make the statement...you did...I was just clarifying why you apparently keep 'coming back to these forums' <--As you say!

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:

quote:

Originally posted by renecillo7:
An Idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. I may not always agree with Bill, but he is NO idiot!

Interesting little forum y'all have here. Rene, anyone who says the world is 6000 years old, and was poofed into existence at that time is self-defeating and significantly counterproductive.

Anyone who says that the world came into existence suddenly 6000 years after Gobelki Tepe was built, and at about the time the Sumerians learned to brew beer has something wrong with his head.

Anyone who disregards every branch of science and history in favor of a religious book must know, in his heart of hearts, that there is something not right about his religion.

It's true, you know, stupid is as stupid does. Insisting that the only worthwhile human endeavor is theology is stupid. Calling science and other academic knowledge "religion" or "faith" is just doing stupidity.

Creationism is not only stupid, but it's dishonest. Anyone intelligent enough to use a computer knows better.

Why do people pretend to be stupid? I've never understood that.

So, Billy Joe Bob Gene, since we are such simpletons and you seemingly have all the answers tell me just what are the definite answers? Where did all of us began, where did the universe begin and how? Do you know for sure this or are you just taking some information you read in a text book? Did this knowledge come to you by osmosis or did you set in some High School or College class and become so enlightened? What are YOUR sources?

You see it's all who you choose to believe unless you have all this built in knowledge so fess up and enlighten us and lets discover how all this just happened to come about with such dogmatic indisputable facts.

quote:

Originally posted by gbrk:

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:

quote:

Originally posted by renecillo7:
An Idiot, dolt, or dullard is a mentally deficient person, or someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way. I may not always agree with Bill, but he is NO idiot!

Interesting little forum y'all have here. Rene, anyone who says the world is 6000 years old, and was poofed into existence at that time is self-defeating and significantly counterproductive.

Anyone who says that the world came into existence suddenly 6000 years after Gobelki Tepe was built, and at about the time the Sumerians learned to brew beer has something wrong with his head.

Anyone who disregards every branch of science and history in favor of a religious book must know, in his heart of hearts, that there is something not right about his religion.

It's true, you know, stupid is as stupid does. Insisting that the only worthwhile human endeavor is theology is stupid. Calling science and other academic knowledge "religion" or "faith" is just doing stupidity.

Creationism is not only stupid, but it's dishonest. Anyone intelligent enough to use a computer knows better.

Why do people pretend to be stupid? I've never understood that.

So, Billy Joe Bob Gene, since we are such simpletons and you seemingly have all the answers tell me just what are the definite answers? Where did all of us began, where did the universe begin and how? Do you know for sure this or are you just taking some information you read in a text book? Did this knowledge come to you by osmosis or did you set in some High School or College class and become so enlightened? What are YOUR sources?

You see it's all who you choose to believe unless you have all this built in knowledge so fess up and enlighten us and lets discover how all this just happened to come about with such dogmatic indisputable facts.

It's not built-in knowledge, it's knowledge that's available to everyone. Schools and colleges plead for people to intake the knowledge they distribute, yet certain knowledge that goes against ancient superstitions is made taboo to the faithful.

I have no definite answers. I have plenty of provisional conclusions, and I'm honest enough to say that they could, however improbably, be proven wrong. Definite answers are the exclusive property of religion. Definite answers are only possible when one makes up one's facts and evidence. Imagine if I were to state, with 100% certainty, that leprechauns infest the tree outside my window, only you can't see them. I can see them, because of my special sensitivity. It's much like that.

Certainty is the issue. The competing religions of the world are all certain of the validity of their various religions. It's obviously insane to say they can all be right. At most, only one can be right. At most.

It's all about who I choose to believe? I believed Carl Sagan and Stephen Hawking in the 1980's. They were mostly right, but subsequent achievements have proven them wrong on several counts. Hawking admits it gladly, happy for the better knowledge. Sagan would, but he's gone. Your religion will not do that, it does not have the foundation, the courage, or the curiosity to admit it's ever been wrong and might be wrong now.

You asked for sources. I won't waste my time listing any, since you will dismiss them in religious intolerance on their faces, but you could look them up. Check out "Best of Science" on Youtube, for a beginning. What are YOUR sources? The Bible? Please, say it's not so. It's as reliable as "Grimm's Fairy Tales". Yeah, I know, I'm writing in conclusions, but such is the way of forums.

It's a fun little forum you have here. As one Alabama guy to another, we can talk. Unlike you, I am tired of people assuming I'm an imbecile because I'm from the Yellowhammer State. I happen to know there are many here who can understand the accumulation of human knowledge and deal with it, just not everyone. Here's hoping you find your way to reality, because you ain't here yet.

We have intelligence on this forum. Awesome, BJBG!

Why, thank you StarryNight. I'm not quite ready to plead guilty to your charge, but you may rest assured there's lots more coming.

Hope you enjoy.

I agree. Very thought provoking post. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Why, thank you StarryNight. I'm not quite ready to plead guilty to your charge, but you may rest assured there's lots more coming. Hope you enjoy.

Hi Deep,

I notice you do not claim a location now. Before it was Born in Sheffield/Living in Hollywood (although you did not really live in Hollywood -- but, I guess you thought that added to your mystique). Then it was Moulton. Where will it be next -- Hawk Pride Mountain?

Oh, well, we proved you and your Darwinian Evolution wrong for three years in your Hollywood dress -- I guess we are up to the task in your new dress.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

And, there, my Friends -- you have the new gospel. Science is now god. God is dead or stupid, for Sofa declares:"Those who embrace blind faith (and stupidity like Creationism)"

Therefore, because God teaches Creationism in Genesis -- and because God teaches, throughout the Bible, that we are saved, by grace, through FAITH -- He MUST be STUPID!

Moron. According to you, "God" also teaches that the earth is in the center of creation and that diseases are caused by demons. We don't believe that any more. For the same reason many of us intelligent Christians accept the findings of science and find pleasure in reconciling scientific truths with theological beliefs.

But to do that you must be educated so I'm afraid you will never be able to grasp the concept.

quote:

Originally posted by Sofa King:

quote:

And, there, my Friends -- you have the new gospel. Science is now god. God is dead or stupid, for Sofa declares:"Those who embrace blind faith (and stupidity like Creationism)"

Therefore, because God teaches Creationism in Genesis -- and because God teaches, throughout the Bible, that we are saved, by grace, through FAITH -- He MUST be STUPID!

Moron. According to you, "God" also teaches that the earth is in the center of creation and that diseases are caused by demons. We don't believe that any more. For the same reason many of us intelligent Christians accept the findings of science and find pleasure in reconciling scientific truths with theological beliefs.

But to do that you must be educated so I'm afraid you will never be able to grasp the concept.

Yup. I'm convinced that people like Bill are exactly why pretty much the rest of the country stereotypes people from the Deep South as backwards, "ignant" simpletons.
I did see a political ad on TV recently condemning a candidate because he was for teaching evolution in the public schools. (Yeah..and that fairy tale makes MUCH more sense....)
Hmm... Maybe a lot of them ARE "ignant." Thinking one day they're gonna sprout wings and fly up to some magical place in the sky somewhere.

Bill Gray, you're insane.

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
Bill Gray, you're insane.

Yes, my Friend,

You used those "exact same words" in responding to me when you came back in your previous dress. Whatever! Often you do make good comments from which I can share the Word of God. So, welcome back, my Friend!

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

*shakes head*

quote:

Originally posted by Billy Joe Bob Gene:
*shakes head*

Hi my DEEP Friend,

Being away hasn't changed you much. However, this time I pray that you stay longer on the Religion Forum. Just remember what got you booted before and don't make those mistakes again.

Then, we can have some exciting dialogues as you preach your Darwin/Dawkins/Hitchen theology -- and I refute it from the Bible.

At least this should make for interesting reading for our Religion Forum Friends.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

To the top!

quote:

Moron. According to you, "God" also teaches that the earth is in the center of creation and that diseases are caused by demons. We don't believe that any more. For the same reason many of us intelligent Christians accept the findings of science and find pleasure in reconciling scientific truths with theological beliefs.

Agree 100percent!

YEAH! YOU TELL HIM, SOFA! I'LL STAND BEHIND YOU -- WAY BEHIND YOU!

wow.
I guess I slept through the time machine picking me up and whooshing me back to high school.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:
wow. I guess I slept through the time machine picking me up and whooshing me back to high school.

MAKE THAT GRADE SCHOOL!

No...Bill's not an idiot. As hard as it seems he's trying to appear that way, he's got some smarts-Why on earth he's not really USING them remains a mystery, but he's not an idiot.

Obviously Bill didn't use his head-so someone else did.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
YEAH! YOU TELL HIM, SOFA! I'LL STAND BEHIND YOU -- WAY BEHIND YOU!

Careful, Sofa.. Bill's lookin at your butt...

quote:

YEAH! YOU TELL HIM, SOFA! I'LL STAND BEHIND YOU -- WAY BEHIND YOU!

Yes, Bill. You are right about that. I cannot remember a single statement that SK has made that I wouldn't stand behind.
I know that irks you, but we do have very similar beliefs, so clearly I will agree with much of what he says.
And God Himself says, wherever 2 or more are gathered in MY NAME, There I am. Right? So there is strength in numbers, and power in community. You should be glad that people on this forum agree with eachother. Just because we don't agree with you shouldn't detract from the fact that there are Christians sharing the Word of God with eachother. That should make you happy- it shouldn't make you spiteful, just because we don't see things your way. ;

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

YEAH! YOU TELL HIM, SOFA! I'LL STAND BEHIND YOU -- WAY BEHIND YOU!

Yes, Bill. You are right about that. I cannot remember a single statement that SK has made that I wouldn't stand behind. I know that irks you, but we do have very similar beliefs, so clearly I will agree with much of what he says.
And God Himself says, wherever 2 or more are gathered in MY NAME, There I am. Right? So there is strength in numbers, and power in community. You should be glad that people on this forum agree with each other. Just because we don't agree with you shouldn't detract from the fact that there are Christians sharing the Word of God with each other. That should make you happy- it shouldn't make you spiteful, just because we don't see things your way. ;

Hi VP,

Yes, there is strength when two or more are gathered in His name. However, the danger comes with what those two or more are doing "in His name."

The Jesus Seminar wants folks to believe they are gathered in His name -- yet, they are the most heretical group you can find in America.

So, make sure that when your "two or more" are gathered "in His name" -- the Gospel you are sharing comes from His Written Word -- and not your man-made book of Traditions.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

So, make sure that when your "two or more" are gathered "in His name" -- the Gospel you are sharing comes from His Written Word -- and not your man-made book of Traditions.

As I have stated before, I believe in Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition. So who are you to tell me to throw away Sacred Tradition? Really.
Just because I don't subscribe to your "sola scriptura" philosophy does not make me wrong. I do not heed your warning, because I put a lot of importance on Apostolic Teaching. It is just as important to me as Scripture,
Anyway, I do believe that I am a good Christian, a good Catholic. I do my best. I am also a sinner.

Are you saying that I am a heretic? Kindly tell me one thing that I have said that you perceive as "dangerous". Not a scripture quote, we all know our scripture. Tell me what Bill Gray thinks I have said that is "dangerous">
ON what do you base this accusation. I do not ever take anything over the Word of God- through Scripture or Tradition. When will you stop trying to sell me on sola scriptura? There are OTHER valid forms of Christianity, Bill. Yours is not the oldest, nor only school of thought.
There are many common threads we share. Many we don't. But to warn me against Sacred Tradition, to mock the Eucharist, etc, is grave business, in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Gray:
So, make sure that when your "two or more" are gathered "in His name" -- the Gospel you are sharing comes from His Written Word -- and not your man-made book of Traditions.

As I have stated before, I believe in Sacred Scripture AND Sacred Tradition.

Hi VP,

Not a problem for me. If you want to attempt to follow God and "man" at the same time; that is your problem.

But, as for me, I will just follow God. Jesus Christ is enough for me.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

quote:

If you want to attempt to follow God and "man" at the same time; that is your problem.

Indeed. However, let me note for the nice people at home, once again, that the "man" is Jesus Himself, as He taught the Apostles, starting with St. Peter, through JP2, and currently with Benedict 13. So yes, I follow a man. A divine man, Jesus Christ through Apostolic Succession.
Just so we have that straight.
Have a wonderful evening.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:

quote:

If you want to attempt to follow God and "man" at the same time; that is your problem.

Indeed. However, let me note for the nice people at home, once again, that the "man" is Jesus Himself, as He taught the Apostles, starting with St. Peter, through JP2, and currently with Benedict 13. So yes, I follow a man. A divine man, Jesus Christ through Apostolic Succession.
Just so we have that straight.
Have a wonderful evening.

Hi VP,

Show us in Scripture where Jesus told of an "infallible pope" -- or that "Mary was born sinless" -- or that Mary was Raptured (Assumption of Mary) as you teach.

No, my Friend, your Traditions were created by your Roman Catholic clergy -- just as the Pharisees created the Jewish laws and put them on top of the Law given by God -- all a way to control the masses.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Holy Mackeral!

VP, do you really think the Nazi Youth Pope is a true reflection of Jesus?

The guy who re-frocked Holocaust deniers and personally shielded child rapists is in any sort a current incarnation of Jesus?

That answers a lot. Thanks.

we'll see, now, won't we.
Thankfully, neither of us have to decide what is "right" for the other. I made that decision for myself long, long ago. And nothing anyone can say could ever change that.
You live as you wish- I will do the same. But please, try to do so with a little bit better understanding of the Catholic and Apostolic Faiths. They are not your enemy.Nor are Catholic leaders Pharisees. And they do not contradict Sacred Scripture. Ever.

BJBG-
Yes, I do believe that the Pope(s) are infallible only when speaking on Church Doctrine. They are, however, men, who are sinners like the rest of us.
I won't even pretend to deny the scandal- we all know its there. It just tells me that people are all sinners. Even those who are closest to God.
Do I think child molesters are reflections of Jesus? Of course not. But I do believe that they
have the authority to lead the universal church? You bet. I do not condone the behavior of ANY clergy who abuses their power. But this is not unique to the Catholic Church.
So, when teaching doctrine, yes I believe they are carrying the Words of Jesus. On a human level, yes, many have screwed up, and many have sinned. But that doesn't change Apostolic Succession, in my book.

quote:

Originally posted by vplee123:
But please, try to do so with a little bit better understanding of the Catholic and Apostolic Faiths. They are not your enemy. Nor are Catholic leaders Pharisees. And they do not contradict Sacred Scripture. Ever.

Hi VP,

No, Roman Catholics are not my enemies. Many are very good friends.

True, Roman Catholic clergy and the Pharisees are different. I was only pointing out that they use similar tactics to control the people -- writing volumes of "laws" -- Traditions -- which are not Biblical.

You say that your Roman Catholic Traditions do not contradict Scripture. Yet, the "infallibility of the pope" -- Mary as Mother of God -- Mary being sinless at birth -- Mary being Raptured (Assumption); none of these are Scriptural.

Confessing to a priest, another man, instead of directly to Jesus Christ -- is not Scriptural.

Purgatory is not Scriptural.

Salvation through the church -- is not Scriptural. Salvation is ONLY through Jesus Christ.

My Friend, there are so many aspects of your Traditions which are not Scriptural.

I am not telling you to not believe in your Tradition. But, when you come on the Religion Forum teaching your non-Scriptural Traditions -- I do have to speak up.

God bless, have a wonderful, blessed day,

Bill

Yes, vp, we'll see.

We've already seen. The hierarchy of the Catholic Church has demonstrably protected it's elite army of child rapists from prosecution and more personal retribution by shuffling them around the Church where they are temporarily protected and able to prey on even more poor victims.

The Catholic Church, taking advantage of its position as the only Western influence in certain parts of Sub-Saharan Africa, preaches that the use of condoms is worse than the highly likely possibility of contracting AIDs.

YOUR church is responsible for millions of deaths in Africa and elsewhere for this one reprehensible policy alone.

Let's forget the Church's complicity in the Rwandan massacres. OK, let's not.

quote:

[4] This paper summarizes preliminary research from genocidal case studies of the Holocaust (1939-1945), Rwanda (1994), and Bosnia (1992-1995). In each of these genocides, Christian institutions, Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox, were present - in large numbers and steeped in history with considerable influence - as the seeds for destruction were sown, the killings unfolded, and the societies began to reconstruct themselves after the slaughter had ended. The moral exclusions that led to mass murder in these three case studies were grounded in cultures dominated, not simply in a nominal sense, by Christianity. Many of those perpetrating the killings did so with the blessing and support, even the active participation, of church leaders. After the killings ended, churches have been at the forefront of reconciliation efforts - though most often without any direct acknowledgment of their complicity in the process of destruction.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2007/2007-10.html

Just one source. How many do you require?


I fail to see how anyone of good conscience can remain a Catholic given the values of the management of that institution over the last, oh, 600 years.

And you wonder why I am skeptical.

quote:

fail to see how anyone of good conscience can remain a Catholic given the values of the management of that institution over the last, oh, 600 years.

And you wonder why I am skeptical

Well, I get what I need from the Catholic Church. I believe in it's doctrines, with all my heart. I need to receive Jesus in the Eucharist. I believe in the Litany of the Saints, and I believe that Mary is the Mother of God. I believe in the Sacraments that are core to the Catholic Faith- Baptism, Matrimony, Confirmation, Eucharist, Last Rites, Holy Orders and Reconciliation.
Now. Do I believe condoms were necessary in Africa? Yes.I understand the basis for the Pope's condemning condoms, but I do agree that there should have been allowances made.
It saddens me deeply the loss of life. I spent several years of my life working on an HIV/AIDS ward, and nothing is more heartbreaking and miserable than a death from AIDS. I am all for preventing AIDS at whatever cost. Yes! I disagree with the Pope on this one, but I do respect the reasons behind his statement.
Am I sickened by the pedophilia and abuse in the church? Of course. But, I believe that is a symptom of the sickness of the entire world, not just the Catholic Church. I believe scandal is all around us. The Catholic Church just is in the spotlight right now. And yes, this also saddens me deeply.
I cannot and would not defend the indefensible.
But it doesnt detract from the fact that I BELIEVE in the Eucharist, the Communion of Saints, etc. So, I will ride the storm out.
Yes it has been poorly managed at times. Show me a church without any problems? Albeit, the Catholic Church has been (rightfully) on the rack for a while, the core doctrines do not and will not change. That's why I am there, and always will be. Hope that answers your question. .

quote:

I need to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.

vp,

Do you believe in transubstantiation?

Yes, I do. With every ounce of my being.

Right. Please explain how cannibalism and vampirism are in any way redemptive or ennobling?

This has been hashed out ad nauseum on a topic called 'transubstantiation" about a month ago.
Please check out that thread. I really don't feel like going through it all again, if okay with you, as it has all been clearly stated then.

vp, thanks. I wasn't here a month ago.

In short, it's clear to me that turning a cracker into the flesh of a particular, long-dead human, and wine into this blood, and all for reason of spiritual benefit, is sorcery.

I don't believe in sorcery, and people who do are Medieval.

Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion. I've been called many things, but medieval is a new one. I don't know if i should say thanks or not. lol.
When you say "a long dead human", you are denying the divinity of God, and Jesus. So that would be the first hurdle to tackle, in understanding spiritual things.
As for the Eucharist,:
The Church calls this mysterious change of the bread and wine into Christ’s Body and Blood Transubstantiation (Lateran IV 1215). The substances of the bread and the wine are changed respectively into the substances of Christ’s Body and Blood, while the accidents (i.e., color, shape, taste, etc.) of the bread and the wine remain unchanged.1

It is not something that one can prove, but based on Faith. I'm sorry you can't understand that right now, and I would be happy to help you try to understand if you are genuinely interested.
Veep