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Venezuela has a very active and free press, most of it in private ownership. They are owned and controlled, like in America, by the wealthy oligarchy. A number of them are also very critical of Chavez. This particular one was used as a tool to spread disinformation and back the coup. It's a fact. I know that liberal left commie corporate media in the US forgot to tell you. There is a story in Saturday's NY Times about the station and the new station Telesur which will represent all Latin America. I have been following it's development for about two or three years now. If I had time I would go back and find it.

I have been following Venezuela since Chavez was elected president. I remember in the early 1990's when he staged a coup but backed down. Venezuela was a very corrupt govenrment that was ruled by a wealthy oligarchy that did not serve the people.

And the Times has been highly critical of Chavez for years but realize that since he keeps getting re-elected and reinstated by the people after a coup that they are beginning to look foolish and have toned it down a bit.

Castro invites Americans to come to Cuba and see for yourself. Come and talk to the Cuban people. It's the US that prevents people from going there, to see the "real Cuba" for themselves. I know someone who went to Cuba and have gone to events were I have heard speakers from unions, schools, doctors and social workers who also went there talk about it. I have read a number of articles about it.

Actually Chavez did not have to go to court, it would be like the FCC refusing to renew a stations license because it violated it's responsibilities. People in Venezuela know what happened. It's the people in America who don't.

And I think we should be concentrating on Bush using the courts when he decides to wiretap and authorize kidnapping, secret prisons and torture.
Prove it's nonsense. Show me a statement made on that web site and show me hard evidence that proves it's untrue. Not just your opinions, I want documentation from independent sources. No leftist propaganda, no unreliable web sites. Real evidence. Do that and I'll admit publicly that you're right and I'm wrong.
NashBama:

Prove it's nonsense. Show me a statement made on that web site and show me hard evidence that proves it's untrue. Not just your opinions, I want documentation from independent sources. No leftist propaganda, no unreliable web sites. Real evidence. Do that and I'll admit publicly that you're right and I'm wrong.

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I believe in the article I posted he states that the misleading headlines started in the Iranian press. Other wise I will have to recheck my files for another article. But I don't bother because you right away try to attack the source. It's an old technique, you can't answer the information so you attack the sources to try to slander and discredit it. I know, you trust your corporate media but they are the iones that are not reliable. There is nothing wrong with left and progressive independent sources. It's been the corporate media that has been lying to you and they have a history of it.

I took one article at random that was posted and showed how the headline was misleading and gives a false impression. The headline claims he says Israel needs to be destroyed but he doesn't say that. He is not calling for the extermination of the Jews. Israel is a made up country by Europeans in land that the Arabs have been the majority people in since the 7th century. It's an illegitimate colony. They are calling for the one state of Palestine with equal rights for all. The Palestinians have agreed to this but Israel refuses.

Iran, the Palestinians and the Arab league have agreed to peace if Israel will abide by International law, Israel refuses and continues to steal and ethnically cleanse the land.
quote:
I believe in the article I posted he states that the misleading headlines started in the Iranian press. Other wise I will have to recheck my files for another article. But I don't bother because you right away try to attack the source. It's an old technique, you can't answer the information so you attack the sources to try to slander and discredit it. I know, you trust your corporate media but they are the iones that are not reliable. There is nothing wrong with left and progressive independent sources. It's been the corporate media that has been lying to you and they have a history of it.


You said the site www.therealcuba.com was "right wing nonsense". I challenged you to back that claim up with evidence. I provided non-biased, real evidence that socialist countries like Cuba and Venezuela are oppressive dictatorships. I provided evidence that shows how miserable life there really is. I provided evidence that shows that their people are not free and are murdered by their own leaders. I provided evidence that proved you wrong.

You make a lot of claims here and I challenged you to put your money where your mouth is, prove your statements about Cuba and Venezuela. You couldn't do it. If anyone has been lied to, it's you.

Last edited by NashBama
I follow events through the alternative progressive media as well as the corporate media. I don't think I have any sites that focus on each country alone but will check my files. I am at work and will need to look later.

But as I say you dismiss any site that may be on the left or progressive but you can check on your own in the archives of publications like Z Magazine, Counterpunch, FAIR. They have articles in their archives.

Otherwise I will see if I can find something later but at night I bareluy have time to keep up with the reading I do plus post. I also post on other sites.

As I said I have a friend who went to Cuba and I have heard people speak who have gone their also. It was the same with Nicaragua in the 80's. I read and saw all the spin but the alternative media told a different story that was backed up by international relief organizations. Could try them too.

I had friends again who went to Nicaragua and saw for themselves. Castro invites people to come to Cuba to see for themselves, it's the US that puts obstacles in the way.
Go to www.therealcuba.com and look under "Photos-The Two Cubas" There you will see for yourself the Cuba that Castro wants tourists to see and the one the citizens live in.

I dismiss any site on the far left or far right. Any site that reports with bias distorts facts and misinforms. If you limit yourself to only one side of the story, you don't know what's really going on. Your posts are great examples of this.

Once again, you made a claim, no evidence, and I easily refuted it providing evidence. You're believing the socialist propaganda. Stop and use some logic and research the truth for yourself, you'll find out what everyone else knows on these boards, that you're wrong.
People that travel to Cuba are allowed to travel around the island freely, and they do. They see all sides of life.

Cuba is a poor country that suffers under a US embargo and sanctions. It was to try to starve the people into submission but they value their freedom from US dominance and have made do with what they have. Before Castro many were poor anyway but at least now they get school, health care and social services.

I have followed the news for over 35 years and have found the alternative progressive media to be very informative and accurate. They provide facts and insights that are left out of the corporate media which gives the corporate view of the news and tends to be conservative on military and economic issues but middle to liberal on civil rights and social issues. That's really only been because since the 1960's and 70's.

The alternative and progressive media gives a history and reasons behind actions and tells the peoples side of the story and how policies affect them.

I have been following Cuba for decades. More then just "one site." Your evidence is from a right wing Cuban site. They are notoriously anti Castro that were mainly from the corrupt oligarchy. Cuba has problems but when the US ends it's war against Castro the Cuban people will be free.
You have not followed the news for 35 years, you've been filling your head with crap for 35 years.

If the site I posted is inaccurate, prove it. Everything you just posted about how great Cuba is has been debunked with photographic evidence. Of course they are anti-Castro, no one in their right mind would support a murderous dictator. Go to the site, see for yourself.

More talk, still no proof. Put up or shut up.

What tourists in Cuba see.

http://www.therealcuba.com/Bucabuffet.JPG

What citizens see.

http://www.therealcuba.com/CubanFridge.jpg

This fridge has some of the items that Cubans can only get with ration cards. The buffet in the first picture requires no cards.

What tourists see.

http://www.therealcuba.com/Mito2r.JPG

What Cuban citizens see.

http://www.therealcuba.com/jvalles.jpg

Just like the old Soviet Union, store shelves are virtually empty and resources are hard to find. The stores for tourists are stocked with plenty of items to buy, making Castro very rich.

See for yourself, a socialist country like Cuba run by a cruel dictator is a complete economic and social failure. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Go to the site and see for yourself. If this site is not credible, provide proof.
These are two on Venezuela. I found another one in ZNet but I think you have to be a sustainer to get it but I will post the link. It is by John Pilger who also has a site. You might be able to get it there. If not I can post the whole article.

I may look for Cuba later if I have time. My posts are accurate. The anti Castro people are not. I know what I am talkinga bout and anyone who is interested can investigate for themselves. I am not denying there is poverty and that Castro does crack down on certian dissent, but not all. It's casue the US has been funding right wing Cuban paramilitaries who have carried out sabatoge and also a destablization campaign. The poverty comes from the US embargo.

There's more to what's happening then what these right wing Cuban's say.


Click here: Venezuela News, Views and Analysis - Venezuelanalysis.com - English language on-line newspaper

http://venezuelanalysis.com/


Venezuela and the Media: Fact and Fiction

by Robert W. McChesney & Mark Weisbrot
To read and view the U.S. news media over the past week, there is an episode of grand tyranny unfolding, one repugnant to all who cherish democratic freedoms. The Venezuelan government under “strongman” Hugo Chavez refused to renew the 20-year broadcast license for RCTV, because that medium had the temerity to be critical of his regime. It is a familiar story.
And in this case it is wrong.
Regrettably, the US media coverage of Venezuela’s RCTV controversy says more about the deficiencies of our own news media that it does about Venezuela. It demonstrates again, as with the invasion of Iraq, how our news media are far too willing to carry water for Washington than to ascertain and report the truth of the matter.
Here are some of the facts and some of the context that the media have omitted or buried:
1. All nations license radio and TV stations because the airwaves can only accommodate a small number of broadcasters, far fewer than the number who would like to have the privilege to broadcast. In democratic nations the license is given for a specific term, subject to renewal. In the United States it is eight years; in Venezuela it is 20 years.
2. Venezuela is a constitutional republic. Chavez has won landslide victories that would be the envy of almost any elected leader in the world, in internationally monitored elections.
3. The vast majority of Venezuela’s media are not only in private hands, they are constitutionally protected, uncensored, and dominated by the opposition. RCTV’s owners can expand their cable and satellite programming, or take their capital and launch a print empire forthwith. Aggressive unqualified political dissent is alive and well in the Venezuelan mainstream media, in a manner few other democratic nations have ever known, including our own.
Now consider the specific facts of RCTV as it applied to have its broadcast license renewed.
The media here report that President Chavez “accuses RCTV of having supported a coup” against him. This is a common means of distorting the news: a fact is reported as accusation, and then attributed to a source that the press has done everything to discredit. In fact, RCTV - along with other broadcast news outlets - played such a leading role in the April 2002 military coup against Venezuela’s democratically elected government, that it is often described as “the world’s first media coup.”
In the prelude to the coup, RCTV helped mobilize people to the streets against the government, and used false reporting to justify the coup. One of their most infamous and effective falsifications was to mix footage of pro-Chavez people firing pistols from an overpass in Caracas with gory scenes of demonstrators being shot and killed. This created the impression that the pro-Chavez gunmen actually shot these people, when in fact the victims were nowhere near them. These falsified but horrifying images were repeated incessantly, and served as a major justification for the coup.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/01/1607/


http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2006-05/13pilger.cfm

ZNet
Chávez Is A Threat Because He Offers The Alternative Of A Decent Society
May 13, 2006
By John Pilger

John Pilger's new book, Freedom Next Time, is published next month by Bantam Press www.johnpilger.com
I asked for unbiased evidence, you failed again.

Venezuelan news is controlled by the state. They are not going to let anything critical get out. State run media is not reliable because it's not independent, it's controlled by the state.

Robert W. McChesney and Mark Weisbrot are far left pundits. The common dreams website is biased towards the left. McChesney has even met with Chavez, he is far from objective. I asked for unbiased evidence.

John Pilger is a very far left, anti-American socialist who has openly supported Chavez. That's extreme bias and that is discredited.

You provided editorials, I provided photographs.

Again, you failed. I asked you to pick something on the site I posted and prove without bias that it's not true. You keep failing. Leftist websites are biased and no more accurate than far right websites. Both are misleading and should not be taken seriously.

Did you even bother going to the link provided or did you just assume that it's inaccurate because it will prove you wrong and force you to think on your own? If not, here it is again. If you truly want to be informed, you should see both sides of the issue. Go through the website in detail and maybe you'll learn something. If you find something that is inaccurate and can provide solid, unbiased evidence that proves it, I'd like to see it. So far, you've yet to prove anything other than you've bought in to the socialist propaganda.

www.therealcuba.com
There is nothing wrong with the sites I provided. Instead of your usual slander to dioscredit and distract you should answer the facts.

Like your site in is "unbiased."

You tell me that I should checkout all views yet yourself refuse too. Oh, the author met Chavez, does that mean that every jouranlist and writer that meets Bush should be discounted?

It's OK, I am not worried if you accept what I say. I post for open minded to people to investagate and learn another side other then the corporate media.

Then make up your own mind. It's up to the individual to decide. I just give them another view that is purged from the corporate media.
Nothing wrong? I browsed through those sites for a while, they are so completely far left it's unreal. They are completely biased. If that's what you are relying on for information, no wonder you're so screwed up. The sites you posted was nothing but brainwashing propaganda.

The site I provided has hard evidence that proves you wrong. You still have yet to show me one thing that they are incorrect about with evidence to support it.

The reason that stuff is "purged" from the corporate media is because it's not news. Those sites distort facts and misinform their readers. If that's the only information you digest, you are the one who is not open minded.

I look at both sides and make up my mind independently. Some of my opinions are conservative, some are liberal. I use my own common sense on issues, you've thrown yours right out the window.

I spent about an hour going through the info you posted just before I went to bed. Tell me, did you even look at the evidence I provided? If so, how long did you spend and what parts of it is untrue?
Well, to be honest I probably spent about 3 minutes checkin out the site. It's the same old same old we get in the corporate media. But I will try to go back and we can take some points and discuss them. I usually do try to discuss the details and not just dismiss a whole site but I am very short on time.

The reason information is "purged" from the corporate media, like presenting people who pointed out it was highly unlikely Saddam had WMD and the war is about oil and let the inspections continue is because the truth interferes with their objectives. Venezueal is another case.

I notice you did not chose to discuss what you found wrong with the articles and sites I provided, just dismissed it as "Brain Washing." Pretty funny.

As far as what's not true in your site, well, let's start with the title.
quote:
Well, to be honest I probably spent about 3 minutes checkin out the site. It's the same old same old we get in the corporate media. But I will try to go back and we can take some points and discuss them. I usually do try to discuss the details and not just dismiss a whole site but I am very short on time.

The reason information is "purged" from the corporate media, like presenting people who pointed out it was highly unlikely Saddam had WMD and the war is about oil and let the inspections continue is because the truth interferes with their objectives. Venezueal is another case.

I notice you did not chose to discuss what you found wrong with the articles and sites I provided, just dismissed it as "Brain Washing." Pretty funny.

As far as what's not true in your site, well, let's start with the title.


I did discuss what I found wrong with the sites, leftist bias. They are pro socialism, pro gay, anti free market, ect. Those sites aren't providing facts as they are editorials. Nothing wrong with reading editorials, but that hardly counts as news or evidence. There may be a little bit of factual basis with them, but relying on them for truth is doing yourself a disservice. The truth is neither left nor right.

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